Topic: Grapefruit seed extract (GSE) (good or bad)
steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
the evil, vile, repugnant grapefruit seed extract (GSE)
There are certain topics that make me rant, pretty much every time they come up... one of these is GSE - grapefruit seed extract. It's sold as a "natural antimicrobial/preservative" but in truth is adulterated with horrible, awful, dreadful, deplorable, revulsive chemicals that are carcinogens, endocrine disrupters, allergy sensitizers, and environmental pollutants.
GSE is not safe to ingest, it's not safe to put on your skin, and it's not even safe to use in any manner where it will be released into the environment.
Please don't use it for parasites, don't use it as an ingredient in "natural detergents" (Bio-Kleen uses GSE), in soaps and by no means expose your infants to it to "fight thrush". Most GSE is more heavily laden with chemicals than Lysol (thanks to Todd Caldecott for that tidbit).
GSE Overview (todd caldecott) "While on the one hand the marketing of GSE could be nothing more than a kind of charlatanism, there are additional concerns about the long term safety of ingesting the aforementioned preservatives.
I am quite sure that many of the people currently using GSE, who espouse the value of natural alternatives over commonly used synthetic drugs and spend their hard earned money to buy “all-natural” products, would be shocked to learn the mechanism of GSE’s biological activity."
Grapefruit Seed Extract Explained (kathy abascal)
"The main active components in the finished product are a group of quarternary ammonium chlorides including benzethonium chloride that make up 8-17% of the product. Benzethonium chloride is not a substance that occurs naturally in grapefruit seeds.
It is a manufactured chemical that is lacking in safety data but may be an endocrine and skin toxicant. Endocrine toxicants are chemicals that have the ability to disrupt our hormones. Commonly encountered endocrine toxicants include PCBs and DDT.
“Not to worry,” assures the manufacturer of Citricidal: “Benzethonium chloride is a well-known synthetic antiseptic agent; it is not added to the grapefruit extract, but if formed from the orginal grapefruit flavonoids during the ammoniation process.” Using grapefruit seed extract is about the same as going to a pharmacy and buying triclosan or any other synthetic antimicrobial chemical. They may work. They may be safe. Or they may not be safe."
The Adulteration of Commercial “Grapefruit Seed Extract” with Synthetic Antimicrobial and Disinfectant Compoundsby (john cardellina)
"Tests conducted in multiple laboratories over almost 20 years indicated that all commercial GFSE preparations that exhibited antimicrobial activity contained one or more synthetic microbicides/disinfectants, while freshly-prepared extracts of grapefruit seeds made with a variety of extraction solvents neither exhibited antimicrobial activity nor contained the antimicrobial synthetic compounds found in the commercial ingredient materials.
Furthermore, over the course of the 18 years covered by the various analyses, the actual antimicrobial compounds found in the putative grapefruit seed extracts changed from triclosan and methyl p-hydroxybenzoate in early samples to benzethonium chloride in the middle years to mixtures of benzalkonium and/or alkonium chlorides in more recent years.
The suggestion on a commercial website4 that these antimicrobial compounds are formed from the phenolic compounds naturally occurring in grapefruit seed and pulp by heating them with water, ammonium chloride, and hydrochloric acid is not supported by chemical evidence, or any known organic chemistry pathway."
Grapefruit Seed Extract. Natural or synthetic?
(rob mccaleb) "The presence of preservatives, harmful to human health, has been reported [in] cosmetic and medicinal GSE products.” We created a method “to quantify all GSE-relevant preservatives in one analytical run by a fully validated assay” and found preservatives “commonly used (as) synthetic antimicrobial agents whose formation in the plant or during the extraction process is very unlikely."
Simultaneous identification and quantification by liquid chromatography of benzethonium chloride, methyl paraben and triclosan in commercial products labeled as grapefruit seed extract (Avula B, Dentali S, Khan IA)
"A HPLC method has been developed which permits the quantification of methyl paraben, benzethonium chloride and triclosan in various samples of grapefruit seed extract (GSE). The best results were obtained with a Phenomenex Gemini C18 column using gradient mobile phase of water (0.1% acetic acid) and acetonitrile (0.1% acetic acid) with a flow rate of 1.0 mL per minute. The detection wavelength was 254 nm for methyl paraben, and 275 nm for benzethonium chloride and triclosan.
The main synthetic antimicrobial agent identified in commercial GSE samples was benzethonium chloride in concentrations from 0.29-21.84%. Positive ion electrospray MS of a commercial GSE sample showed a molecular ion at m/z 412 [M+], which matched that of a standard of benzethonium chloride. Triclosan was detected in two samples at 0.009 and 1.13%concentrations; while methyl paraben was not detected in the samples analyzed"
1 drop of GSE produced a huge increase in Tourette's and PANDAS symptoms in our 11 yo daughter. Loss of math/spatial ability, age regressive behaviour, motor/vocal ticcing so bad she couldn't read or talk. This lasted for approx. 1 month. All because our LLMD suggested using it on her toothbrush to address dental plaque. She didn't even swollow it.
Our LLMD said it was the result of toxins produced by yeast die-off, Buhner's associate said it was the result of impairment of P450 cytochrome function in the liver.
Whatever it was, we won't be using it again.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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2roads
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4409
posted
rowingmom,
Can you be more specific about the loss of math/spatial ability? Maybe some examples?
Also, age regressive behavior? Some examples?
What symptoms did your daughter have before the GSE, and what does she have now, if any?
I appreciate exchanging notes. Sorry for all you are going through.
Steve, you sure know how to post a topic at the holidays......
This one really hits home for me.
Ditto to what rowingmom said. That's all I can say at this point, ther then that we will never use it again either.
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I just started using grapefruit seed extract instead a flagyl- can anyone explain how to use it properly- such as how many drops to mix with water - im working up to 20 drops now... has it actually helped anyone? why would it be so popular and why would so many LLMD's recommend it?
Posts: 47 | From new york | Registered: Jul 2013
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These symptoms had been more frequently associated with strep, but Drs are now finding it to be associated with other infections as well, ie. mycoplasma, lyme, bartonella.
Symptoms can include:
OCD, ticcing, anxiety, moodiness/depression, confusion, behavioural regression (acting in an age inappropriate child-like manner), sensory symptoms, hallucinations, motor symptoms, urinary symptoms, sleep disturbance, pupil dilation.
and are more fully explained in the chart posted on the link.
Our daughter forgot how to do simple math (addition, subtraction) in grade 4, before her treatment started.
She forgot how to hold and use her pencil to write (loss of motor skills).
She would roll on the floor, kicking her feet in the air and making foolish baby noises (age regressive behaviour).
When she was younger, before this was even on my radar she would draw stick figures with the feet placed on top of the head instead of under the body and she had extreme difficulty learning how to print and had trouble remembering which way the curves and straight lines would need to go to produce any letter of the alphabet (Poor spatial ability).
Intensive OT from JK - grade 2 helped with these problems.
This inability to discern where objects needed to be placed in 2D space returned when she later developed PANS, but not to as great an extent.
With treatment for bartonella, all of the above mentioned PANS symptoms resolved, except for motor/vocal ticcing which I have found (for our daughter at least) to be associated with die-off toxin buildup.
Ticcing would ramp with abx protocol changes and was especially bad with the addition of tindamax. As she was given the time to detox though, (as well as using anti-inflammatory supplements (turmeric, liposomal glutathione, magnesium, epsom salt baths, methylated B vits)) ticcing would decline.
All throughout abx treatment we would see die-off reactions, but never the return of the PANS symptoms mentioned above. Only with GSE did we see a flare of PANS as well.
It took her about 1 month to recover and anti-inflammatories did help, especially turmeric and japanese knotweed.
Right now we are using Buhner's full bartonella protocol (minus l-arginine) and she is doing very well. Ticcing occurs only upon suggestion and her other PANS symptoms are non-existant. We are still dealing with some bart pain symptoms (long bone pain, headache) as we ramp up A-Bart, and actually some improvement with addition of cryptolepis which makes me think a protozoan or viral infection may be involved as well.
We will not be using GSE again.
-------------------- 13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement. Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
We all need to do our research, I only post things like this for informational purposes, it doesn't mean I believe everything I read.
I'm sure many others will have a say on this, many of our members use it.
I remember I tried it years ago, once or twice, I couldn’t handle it.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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2roads
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4409
posted
thanks rowingmom for the info.
it sounds like you are getting to the end of a long journey. Thank goodness!
What did you experience on it steve?
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
Stomach pain, and the worst herxing from HELL....
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Nutrabiotics wrote an extensive rebuttal to this on their product. they said that they added nothing to it. It has been researched by a lot of different learning institutions and others that say contrary to what is posted above.
I dont know where the truth lies on this matter. I have used it in the past to manage illietus but no longer do having found more effective treatment, but it did work. My son still uses it for chancre sores in the mouth that he gets periodically since age 2, now 27.. He says it cures them overnight.
Posts: 803 | From USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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