nefferdun
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posted
My irritation has been increasing for months. I am so thin skinned that I often yell. At the same time I have more trouble sleeping. I have trouble falling asleep and I wake up every 1.5-2 hours. Sometimes around 3AM I can't go back to sleep. Over the past month the soles of my feet are slightly painful when I wake in the morning and walk. Doesn't this sound like bart?
Before this I was feeling stiff in my joints, especially my hands, in the morning but that went away. I still have headaches nearly every night, which imitrex knocks out. I am completely apathetic about doing anything but my anxiety can go through the roof. I cannot ride my horse any more because I am convinced he is going to do something and I will fall off and get seriously injured. This isn't me!
What is going on? I treated bartonella in 2009. Why would it come back after all these years? At that time I did not have the sore soles of my feet. My shins burned and ached so I thought it was bart quintana. Could this be bartonella hensale or is it BLO? Why would it come out now?! I thought the only infection I had left was PR. Now this.
I am so frustrated I could literally scream. I sent my blood to Dr. F and can't get any doctor to talk to him to find out what is in it. Meanwhile whatever it is - it is getting worse and worse.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
I wish I could help you, neffer. I don't know very much about bart.
It does NOT sound like fun.
I hope someone here can help out!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TF
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posted
A few non-lyme problems that could cause this:
--thyroid problem
--lack of estrogen
People I have known who got diagnosed with low thyroid told me they were yelling at everyone, wanted to kill a coworker, hated everyone, etc.
If you are entering perimenopause or menopause and your estrogen is dropping, you can have terrible anxiety, be unable to sleep, be totally on edge all the time with no letup, etc.
So, you may want to look into a few of these things.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GretaM
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posted
Oh neff
Yes, from what you've described, the symptoms are the same as my bart symptoms.
I also have some more, but the way you described apathy and irritation is my bart to a "T"
Have you been bit by fleas, sand flies, biting flies, midges, this season?
The sand flies/fleas are what gave me this terrible bart.
Sometimes, when I go to put something in the garbage and I miss, I have a complete blowout and want to quit life.
"who f-ing cares? I don't give a sh@? I'm done!!!"
Kinda thing. That's the best way I can describe what bart does to my emotions.
Also I read in Dr. H's new book that a crusty scalp is also bart.
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Judie
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posted
Meds??? I had extreme irritation while on azithromycin. I had to stop it because my rages were so intense.
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nefferdun
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posted
Sorry, but this develops into a rant ---
I am past menopause and have been on hormones so that is not it. I have Hashimoto's so that might contribute. But the sore soles of my feet? That is so bart.
I know Hashimoto's can cause attacks on your thyroid and then you are hyperthyroid with outbursts of rage. I had that happen about 1.5 years ago. It was horrible. I couldn't sleep then either. I was eating non stop and lost 20 pounds. But NOW I have cut what I eat in half and I am gaining weight.
Greta, I feel just like you describe. I had to cancel an airline ticket which I had insurance on and they were giving me a hard time, saying I had to be sick. I was literally yelling at the person telling her there was nothing in the policy saying I had to be sick but lucky for me, I am. I was so worked up it took me hours to unwind
I called my credit card company to try to halt charges and had to keep reminding myself over and over to be nice because it was not her fault.
All of this is compounded by insanity in my family of origin. I had to travel to deal with them which is upsetting in and of itself but also because I didn't wear myself out doing something useful like going to see a doctor or have a vacation. I think the stress of that just sent me into overdrive and a spiraling relapse.
I feel the emotion physically. In fact my blood pressure has gone up 15 points when I am sitting there calm. It is like something is going to explode. I am taking GABA and ST John's Wort twice a day. That is helping a little but I woke up today at 3:30 AM.
I just want to tear into the doctors. The stupid NP tells me if she treats "the rest of my body" my immune system will recover and be able to take care of everything. She points out "some people test positive but they are not sick" so that means they have a healthier immune system and if she just fixes what is out of whack with all her herbs and IV chelation, then I will be fine. Meanwhile I am getting worse and it isn't a herx.
She talked to Dr. F but got no information about the UFO's in my blood. All of this has cost me over $1200 so far, not to mention the $600 I paid for the F test. There was a man in chelation with me that said, "they thought I had Lyme but it is arsenic poisoning". Sure.
The fact is no one wants to treat lyme or any disease connected to it in any way. I have an appointment with an infectious disease doctor on the 10 that was set up by another doctor that refused to treat me (or call F).
That appointment followed another appointment with the GP who finally agreed to draw blood and order the test after I refused to leave the office. They were sitting on the results for weeks so my husband had to get them.
When they failed to call in a script for my son I told the receptionist I was coming in for a handwritten script and she hung up on me 3 times. That initiated an angry letter to the doctor so he is out of the picture. All he wants to do is prescribe marjuana anyway.
It has been months since that blood work was done and still no answers. I am sure this ID doctor is going to say something really stupid that will set me off.
I have to travel I guess to see F but I will need to wait until after the Holidays. I will have to take a plane and stay in a hotel overnight and make my way through the city. i won't be able to find anything to eat because no restaurant serves low fat food.
I am fried right now.
.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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surprise
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posted
I was convinced Bartonella or Lyme was 'back', but it was systemic yeast overgrowth.
Also, adding coconut oil 3x a day, and more fat in my diet (while giving up grains and dairy)
Completely changed my mood- leveled me out. I have a daughter w/ OCD - it can try the patience of a saint.
But when I am calm and not irritable, it changes everything with the outside circumstances.
I know this goes against what you are living and believing with Protomyxzoa's and I am not saying at all what's right or wrong, Just sharing my recent turnaround in this area.
Hang in there- this whole thing is incredibly hard at times, to put it mildly. Sending good thoughts--
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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nefferdun
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Thank you Surprise. And have a Happy Thanks Giving day everyone.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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CD57
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posted
Neff to me this sounds exactly like bart. Can you look into retreating? Bart is underestimated and is possibly the worst of the coinfections, IMO. The meds that treat it don't actually kill it, which is why it's so hard to get rid of.
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GretaM
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Rant away, Neff! Rant away! Get it out!
Argh! Neff! I was getting irate just reading about your experiences with the doctors recently!
You have every right to be irritable after the runaround you've been getting!
Yes, I agree with CD57. I am of the impression that even if one is able to get rid of bart with treatment, one mosquito, one fly bite, and bart is back.
The thing about bart, is it takes a normal everyday experience, and changes it into something un-cope-able.
It also makes it incredibly hard to "come down"/calm down after an incident.
It also causes the 3am wakeup calls-ARGH and bodywide pain. I wake up in pain, I go through my day in pain, I fall asleep in pain. I wake up at 2am with ice-pick headaches.
It is hard not to feel wound-up and annoyed for the rest of the day.
I agree with you Neff. I have to remind myself that it isn't the store clerks fault if I need to fill out a form to do a return etc
I can imagine how trying it was to cancel that flight without being dinged.
Pretty much, someone puts a form in front of me, and steam starts coming out my ears.
I completely understand Neff! Hang in there!
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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nefferdun
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CD57 - IT does sound like bart. So do I! I sound just like someone with bart -
Greta you describe it so well! Things that would not usually bother me that much, set me off. Then I am wound up for hours - even days.
It reminds me of this toy we used to get on the 4th of july. It had a round spinner with a whorl on it. When you pumped it, sparks came out of the back and it made a scrappy noise. This is my mind.
Yesterday I took Stromectol. The day before I had the IV chelation so maybe my reaction was worse than normal because I really was herxing. This morning I was very weak and felt as sick as I did two years ago.
Now I feel much better. My daughter made most of the dinner for us and it was wonderful. I didn't feel deprived at all. I had a very nice day.
I hope all of you did too.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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randibear
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posted
I'm addressing massive yeast. Sigh...Will just worry about lyme later.
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GretaM
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Neff-that spinning top is a GREAT descriptor! I especially liked the sparks!
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Phoiph
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posted
Nefferdun...
I can relate to your symptoms all too well. I also had Bartonella...with severe neuro burning pain 24/7, and extreme irritability that never ended. I spent most of my time trying not to end my life or someone elses...at my worst, I couldn't leave the house for 5 years...probably a good thing, looking back.
The thing that I have learned, is that it is a wild-goose chase to continue to analyze and "chase" symptoms and "bugs". It is all guesswork, and, as you can see by reading the multitude of posts in this forum, it isn't very effective. Unfortunately, it seems there are way more people who are sick and struggling, than those who have gotten well.
I am sharing this because I am one of the few who have my life back completely and am well...drug free...and it didn't happen by chasing bugs (although I tried this for years without success). It happened by treating my whole body with mild hyperbaric and supplemental oxygen, at home.
Since getting well, I have been trying to spread the word on hyperbaric, as it is extremely frustrating to watch people suffer and go down roads I have gone down before without success.
Here's a thread (2 pages) with more information, and you can PM with questions if you like. The chamber prices listed are not accurate; they are actually less than listed. I have set up a network to help people access mild hyperbaric more affordably.
You can also start researching (and looking at before and after SPECT scans) by reading "The Oxygen Revolution", by Dr. Paul Harch, or going to his website: hbot.com.
I know I sound like a salesman, but I assure you, I am not...I take no compensation for providing information and helping people get set up with hyperbaric...I just want to help people "stop the madness"...and pay it forward...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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map1131
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Neff, I can so relate. I've always thought it was bart but you got me thinking. Wow, I'm Hashimoto's too and has this been attacks as you describe.
Is your thyroid dead and no blood flow to it as mine. I was hypothyroid long before lyme (? who knows certainly).
Am I switching from hypo to hyper? My ultra sounds of thyroid show a dark area, non cancer, but being measured and watched for change.
IMO, this dark area is a cluster of bacteria in a dead organ. Pretty smart hiding place. My immune system is attacking the thyroid because the bad guys are in there and they are trying to get to them.
Or I'm just crazy. Bart is lying low in me currently, babs seems to be in control for sometime now. I'm so confused because for years I thought there wasn't babs after all?????
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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CD57
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I appreciate Phopihs posts and agree with what she says about the wild goose chases of chasing bugs and symptoms. Sometimes I think the Dr B symptom checklists have been my worst enemy b/c of the prison that I feel like "bart" has built around me, based on the checklist of symptoms. There are a few of us here on LN who have a specific constellation of symptoms that are always attributable to "bart" and it's horrifying to realize that the treatment has done little to stop this set of symptoms.
I am reading dr H new book and I noticed an overall theme of lack of focus on bart,,,,he talks a lot about babesia and Lyme and the patients he profiles with a few exceptions, are mostly Lyme and babs patients. I wonder if bart doesn't show up because it seems to be treated relatively easily with the 2 intracellular med combos, and then never shows up again?
Anyway, it is hopeful book because I realize I haven't done about 10 out of the 16 things he talks about. I am now thoroughly sick of chasing bugs as Phoiph mentions and am seriously trying to figure out a way to get a chamber, although I do still have fears that it 1) won't do anything and 2) may make bart flare. I think Phoiph is right however about the futility of chasing individual bugs in my ase.
Neff, could the IV chelation have set off "bart" somehow?
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GretaM
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CD-I couldn't agree with you more! I was fairly dissapointed in the bartonella pages in Dr. H's new book. I felt it was a summary, and didn't convey the true terror of bartonella and the difficulty in treating it.
In all the coinfections, the impression I read, is that it was the least complicated to treat.
I did learn some new things about bart I didn't know before, but otherwise felt there could have been more bartonella examples.
Maybe there was, but the editors slashed and condensed what was written. (No offense to editors on LN )
Mind you, I am very biased, as Bartonella terrorizes me on a minute by minute basis...I am sure the bartonella bacteria has two horns and a tail...
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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randibear
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posted
Ha!!! Rant away. You should hear me when I get out of a doctor's office.
Cursing a blue streak is putting it mildly...
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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nefferdun
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posted
I hope the chelation caused a die off. I hope it broke down some of the biofilm so when I took the stromectol, it hit something.
But stromectol goes after the PR, and I don't think that is what is causing this irritation because the soles of my feet hurting is typically bartonella.
I treated bart in 2009, with 5 weeks of levaquin (got tendonitis), 8 months of HH2, cumanda, clove bud oil etc - 3 months of Rifampin - and then a year of Bactrim DS. I had many bart symptoms but never the classic sore soles of the feet in the AM.
I had a negative test for bart hensalae but they did not test for bart quintana, which is what I felt I had because my shins hurt so bad. The shin pain is gone. Even the swelling I had on my leg is greatly reduced and hardly noticeable.
This is something else. Maybe mycoplasma, which I know nothing about - maybe bart H. was dormant and now has decided to emerge. I have pea size brown spots on my arms, which I had with bart before. Then my skin was clear.
I have so much anxiety I quit riding my horse. I rode all the way through 5 years of treatment, when I was dizzy and weak. Sometimes when I was riding my legs would cramp up so badly I would literally scream.
When I was treating bart, I even taught my horse to be ridden without a bridle or halter. I had tendonitis so bad in my arm, that when I nearly fell off it pulled it really badly and hurt horribly - but I didn't quit riding. i couldn't use that arm for months but I was not fearful.
Once when I was on a trail ride, I suddenly got so sick I could hardly stand. I could not open my eyes without getting nauseated so I rode my horse back to the trailer with my eyes closed. He was following a friends horse.
Now I don't ride because I am terrified - They are unreasonable fears. 4 months ago he shied at a pigeon and I fell off. Everything is explainable but I won't accept it. I don't want to see anyone either. I just don't want to do much of anything.
This is a blackness that creeps up on me. I imagine bart and babesia being the Dementors in Harry Potter. They sneak up on you and the next thing you know they have sucked your soul out.
I hope I can get help from someone. As for hyperbaric chambers - I have chased so many expensive false leads, I don't grasp for those simple cures any more. In the beginning of treatment I used my husband oxygen tanks for welding. It didn't really do much.
I was close to remission for awhile. It is so tenuous with PR.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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GretaM
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posted
I hear you, Neff.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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Phoiph
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Nefferdun...
Just for the record, using oxygen without being under pressure is a totally different animal. There is no comparing the two.
"Expensive", yes, but a chamber is also an investment that can be re-sold, unlike other therapies.
"Simple Cure"...no, it requires patience and commitment. But it works, unlike many other therapies that also require patience and commitment...
At the very least, please read "The Oxygen Revolution" by Dr. Paul Harch, or check out his website: HBOT.com. The SPECT scans speak for themselves...
Knowledge is power...at least make an informed decision...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Catgirl
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posted
Neff, it sounds like bart and heavy metals. Which bart it is doesn't really matter. You could have easily been bit again (most people never know they got bit). If you were bit, the stiff joints most likely would be lyme.
When you kill parasites they release metals and toxins. The metals gave me terrible insomnia and headaches, messed with my thyroid, and more. Fighting proto, this is going to happen because you're killing parasites. You just have to get the metals out. Check out the book: Whole Body Dentistry (Breiner).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Catgirl
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posted
Have you tried Detox 2 yet? It's a good binder. You can also try bentonite clay. You need to do something daily since you are taking parasite meds.
I'm afraid the ID doc is just going to make you mad as well as a waste of your time and money. They are truly idiots, but to be fair, they ignore lyme primarily because they are following the old crap guidelines that the idsa puts out.
It really sounds like bart is giving you all the anxiety/depression (maybe lyme too). Hang in there.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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nefferdun
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Thanks cat girl and greta. You are of the same mind as me. I am doing IV EDTA and doing ok so far. She gives me glutathione at the end. I guess that helps bind.
I had a really bad day but last night was a little better. I only woke up twice and stayed awake about an hour, then went back to sleep. I didn't feel like I had to urinate every hour - that is both a PR and a bart symptoms for me.
The ID doctor will probably totally tick me off but he was recommended by the GP too, and he is a marajuana doctor, so this guy might be a little more open minded.
Just thinking about what he might say gets me anxious and irritated.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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nefferdun
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posted
Phoiph. Dr. S's book says hyperbaric chambers are worthless for bart and babesia. Sometimes I think people who believe something like this cured them after using years of abx, actually eliminated the infections with the abx, and just needed to detox the leftover garbage out.
I am glad you are better and hope you stay that way.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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randibear
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posted
I think you will find most here have a very low opinion of infection disease doctors. And rightly so.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Check out Taurine ( amino acid ) for anxiety and for sleep problems
Taurine is a precursor to serotonin and dopamine and you sound deficient Amino acids have helped my daughter with her moods during pregnancy - she usually takes Prozac..
Also check out these : "The Way Up From Down " Priscilla Slagle MD and "The Mood Cure " by Julia Ross. These focus on dealing with mood problems at the root by using necessary amino acids the brain requires . My daughter no longer takes sleep meds at all! Her anxiety is greatly improved. It must be taken on an empty stomach , and is totally safe. Also , for it to work a person needsa normal level of VIT b and B6 . ( I always take B )
If you have chemical imbalances in your family ( I do !) an anti depressant at a low dose can make life a hell of a lot better also.
A question: could a lack of fats or cholesterol cause this? The brain depends heavily on fats and fatty acids. Just a thought...
Posts: 153 | From Huntsville Al | Registered: Jun 2013
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CD57
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posted
Dr S is not supposed to be a very credible source for all of this stuff, but I think he also wrote that he studied the effects of 100 dives?
Neff...work the MMJ thing. I have incorporated it for sleep and it is really helping. I use the high CBD oil, very small doses. Like the head of a pin. There is a Youtube video of a woman who used Buhner herbs to get to about 50% and if she keeps cannabis oil in her system, is symptom free.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
The reason that amino acids do not solve mood problems when Bartonella is suspected, is because Bart actually uses amino acids as its fuel. One of its favorites is Glutamine, but it will break down whatever amino acid is available.
People that take Glucosomine for joint problems are just feeding Bart if they have it, because this joint ingredient is nothing more than Glutamine + a sugar molecule......Yikes!
quote: It has been difficult to isolate B. henselae directly from the blood of infected humans or animals or to grow the bacteria in liquid culture media under laboratory conditions. Therefore, we have developed a liquid growth medium that supports reproducible in vitro growth (3-h doubling time and a growth yield of approximately 5 × 108 CFU/ml) and permits the isolation of B. henselae from the blood of infected cats.
During the development of this medium, we observed that B. henselae did not derive carbon and energy from the catabolism of glucose, which is consistent with genome nucleotide sequence data suggesting an incomplete glycolytic pathway. Of interest, B. henselae depleted amino acids from the culture medium and accumulated ammonia in the medium, an indicator of amino acid catabolism.
Analysis of the culture medium throughout the growth cycle revealed that oxygen was consumed and carbon dioxide was generated, suggesting that amino acids were catabolized in a tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle-dependent mechanism. Additionally, phage particles were detected in the culture supernatants of stationary-phase B. henselae, but not in mid-logarithmic-phase culture supernatants. Enzymatic assays of whole-cell lysates revealed that B. henselae has a complete TCA cycle.
Taken together, these data suggest B. henselae may catabolize amino acids but not glucose to derive carbon and energy from its host. Furthermore, the newly developed culture medium should improve isolation of B. henselae and basic research into the pathogenesis of the bacterium.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Might try Beyond Balance Bart formula. A number have had good results
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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TNT
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posted
micul,
Where did you find this quote? If this is an authoritative source, I would like to study this a little more.
And the part about the glutamine, is that with this info, too?
thanks, TNT
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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GretaM
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posted
Micul-thank you for posting that quote and link.
What stuck out in my mind, RESONATED, is that the growth medium increased in ammonia concentration as bart consumed amino acids.
What I gathered that b henslae is difficult to grown without the right food (amino acids), and the right medium.
Now, I have gene mutations that make it difficult to detox ammonia. Instead of breaking it down and urinating it out, the excess seems to sweat out, and my armpits smell of cat pee, and my bra smells of straight Sudsy Ammonia, the kind used to clean ovens.
Now, when I eat very low carb (50 total grams per day), my ammonia smell become worse AND the pain in my sternum hurts like the devil.
For Bart infections, sternum pain, worse with pressure, is related to the thymus gland (directly behind), and inflammation of the lymph system.
Even WORSE! is the fact that both L'arginine and L'ornithine are both amino acids mentioned as helping the body's ability to detox and flush ammonia.
So every night before bed, I take L'Ornithine.
Now, it seems to me, from the article and quote, that when I eat very low carb, (increased protein consumption-amino acids), (increased ammonia in tissues, genetically unable to detox ammonia), and I take L'ornithine to help with this ammonia, that I am actually creating a perfect cellular environment for INCREASED bartonella growth (24 hrs. repo, I believe).
Well that explains the terrible sternum pain. FINALLY!
Thank you, Micul! Much appreciated!
Neff, I'm sorry to hijack your thread...when I read about ammonia in the growth medium, light bulbs went off.
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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surprise
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posted
Well, my daughter and I both had our amino acid profiles checked (tested) through out 1st LLMD at the beginning,
and everything was 'okay' sure, a few could have used tweaking, but with both of us having Bart. Hens. running through us untreated,
it didn't eat up all our amino acids. My opinion on these matters of 'bugs eating nutrients' (example Borrelia using manganese)
is the body needs it. I know my brain needs fats- and I need fats for my blood sugar to be stable.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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map1131
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posted
Greta, OMG I have had the pain in the sternum for years. Especially early into all this, it was all day every day.
Never could figure out what it was or read anything about it. Today it is one of those symptoms that pops up hangs around for a few days and then goes wherever.
I've always said it feels like an elephant is standing ballerina style on my sternum. Pushing on that area would be the last thing I would do.
I've never applied anything or try anything to see if I got relief. Ammonia smelling in arm pits has only happened on occasionly.
Thanks for the reading micul and Greta. I'm bookmarking this thread.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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surprise
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posted
As I am sure you guys know, ammonia smell can also signify yeast, or toxin die off, some MTHFR mutations have trouble getting rid of ammonia...
the link about culturing Bart H was very interesting, but from 2004. Seems the research and 'know how' about current
Bartonella culturing is coming out of Galaxy labs- not sure how they are culturing it, but the owner has some fascinating documentation/ research/ real life experience with Bart.
I wonder if someone is interacting/ continuing with infected animals, biting insects/ mites, they just keep getting Bart infections/ more of a load?
That theory has me paranoid enough not to interact with cats anymore (my belief being I got infection from feral cats 16 years ago)
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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nefferdun
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I tried L tyrosine and stopped it immediately because it made things so much worse. Presently the NP has me taking lavender orally for sleep. Jujube seeds worked well for a long time and before that corydallis root, but when an infection is causing insomnia, killing it is the only relief.
I am also on Cortisol Manager to support the adrenals. I take two in the morning and another one at night. I go in for more chelation tomorrow.
Fat has nothing to do with it. I was doing extremely well on the diet and still do best when I stick to it.
I wonder if I may have gotten infected from one of my cats. He is a diabetic and has to have two shots a day. I accidentally poked myself with his needle after giving him the shot. That is just a possibility. He is not sick other than having diabetes. He doesn't seem irritable or anything either.
The reason I think I may have become re-infected is because the sore feet symptom is completely new for me. You would think after having lyme for nearly 8 years I would not be developing new symptoms now.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Catgirl
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We have had lots of cats for many years, and my bart symptoms are so minimal now that I hardly notice. They only pop up once in a while and just for a day or two.
I did use abx initially, but now I just use A-bart whenever symptoms arise. It knocks them back. My husband has no symptoms whatsoever. Our cats are inside only though.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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nefferdun
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More than likely your cats have never bitten you. That is how you get it from them. Even the CDC says 41% of cats are infected with bart but they are usually asymptomatic.
If I knew I got bart from one of my cats I would never get rid of them - I would just be aware and more careful. Treat the cat if necessary.
I was worried I might have gotten toxoplasmosis and that was why I got the blood test from F labs. It was after that that my irritation and anxiety went through the roof and the soles of my feet began to hurt in the morning.
Where we live there are no fleas so we are pretty safe as far as transferring diseases. But Dr. S told me horses carry ehrlichia and are asymptomatic. He said I could be infected over and over by a fly bite. i wouldn't dream of getting rid of the horses either.
I might have gotten something from some other source other than the tick bite nearly 8 years ago. I kind of hope so because it is scary to think these infections can be completely undetectable for that long.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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nefferdun
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Dogs can also carry bart but not as often as cats. When our puppy was teething he drew blood on me almost every day. He never seemed to be sick and neither does the cat. I guess we just never know.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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GretaM
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I've not been bit by a cat either.
This last batch of bart was 100% from sand flea bites while on a holiday last December.
BUT when I review my bart symptoms I can pinpoint them back to my childhood.
I can relate to the boom bass driving one crazy! Haha.
What are jube jube seeds, Neff?
[ 12-02-2013, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: GretaM ]
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
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CD57
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I'm pretty sure I got bart from our feral cat in childhood. The weird symptoms over the years just make sense. I may have gotten it again with the tick bite.
We have 2 cats now, mostly indoor. They don't bite or scratch. But you don't have to be bitten by a cat to get the bart....my doc said contact with cat saliva (my cat drools when she is being petted), inadvertent cat scratch, or of course a bite.
he told me to get rid of them but I am not. Our vet was treated for bart and got pretty sick, but 3 weeks IV doxy seemed to take care of it for her.
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nefferdun
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Jujube seeds are good for sleep. They are one of the ingredients in Zhang's HerbSom. Dr. Oz mentioned them on one of his shows and said they are one of the best natural things for sleep.
The chelations seems to be helping a little. I slept until 5AM today. I woke up 3 times but I had no trouble getting back to sleep. Sleep is such a luxury.
She said it would take 10 to 20 of these to get the metals out. It will be degrading the biofilm at the same time. Then if I hit it with something, it will be more effective. That is my theory anyway.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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