posted
For those of you that have tried HBOT, I have a few more questions.
I completed Dive #15 today. $2,000 so far added to my "down the lyme toilet" total! Yippee!
1. For any of you that saw improvement with HBOT, how many dives in was it before you started seeing improvement? I have seen absolutely no improvement, and, in some ways, I feel a bit worse. The nurse at the center said that she thinks that it will take about 20 dives before I start seeing any improvement?
2. About a week ago, I started noticing vision changes. Nothing drastic like vision loss or anything, but my near-sightedness has gotten much worse. I thought to myself "geez, either my glasses must be REALLY dirty, or else I am getting old quicker than I thought!" I asked the nurse at my hyperbaric center about it. She said that "yes, it can cause temporary vision changes. Some people come in wearing glasses, but don't need them anymore when doing hyperbaric. It will revert back to your 'normal' after stopping HBOT. Don't get an eye exam for six weeks after you stop HBOT." Does this sound right? I'm a little concerned that my vision may end up being worse - i.e my nearsightedness staying "worse" after stopping treatment. Not that it's vision loss or anything, but a little concerning.
Getting a little concerned about everything again. My brain function seems to be declining all-the-while, pouring more money down the toilet and seeing no return/improvement in my health.
Discouraged...and skeptical...yet again!
-------------------- ? date of bite/no rash 10/09 symptoms, 4/10 diagnosed, after 6 mos. ER visits, tons of docs/tests CDC+ 23/39/41/45/58/66/93 currently on oral plaquenil, doryx, rifampin, pyrazinamide, nystatin, numerous supplements Posts: 718 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2010
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It takes many more than 20 or 40 dives to successfully treat chronic Lyme (although you may see changes and improvements sooner). This is why using a home chamber makes more sense economically and practically.
I also do not recommend the higher pressures you are using for chronic Lyme; as you have experienced, there are more risks of oxygen toxicity and vision changes (although these are usually temporary). Current studies indicate that "more (pressure) is not better" when it comes to many neurological, chronic conditions (see link to article).
Dr Harch ("The Oxygen Revolution", website: hbot.com) recommends 1.5 ATA for many of these conditions, as does a neurologist I am in close contact with who runs a hyperbaric clinic.
People also commonly will feel worse before they feel better, with both mild and higher pressures...
I didn't have noticeable changes until over 50 dives (and those were "changes", not necessarily "improvements"). Soon after that, I started a 2 step forward, 1 step back process, which eventually led to my having a full, med-free life back...
Although I consider myself well, I continue to use my chamber, as I am still noticing health benefits...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I noticed improvement after the first dive. 15 dives and nothing...I'd be skeptical it's going to help. You should at least be herxing especially at 2.4 ata.
Re the eyes, you are having oxygen toxicity to the lens. I had it and they lied and said it was a pressure issue. But it's not. You develop a myopia due to oxygen toxicity to the lens. If you use pressures under 2.0 ata and keep your eyes closed or use a mask you'll do much better. The amount of oxygen going across the cornea at 2.4 ata is huge. And the vitreous membrane in the back of the eye, which is between the retina and the lens, can't protect you from oxygen going across the cornea into the lens. The vitreous can only absorb oxygen that is in the blood and plasma inside your body.
They never talk about that danger. It's outrageous. I spoke to many clinic operators and told them to be clear with their patients that this is a danger, it's not always reversible at all (they claim its reversible)and I suspect were they to do longitudinal studies in those who'd undergone significant amounts of hbot and had some eye changes, that over time their rate of cataracts would be higher (like astronauts--all developed cataracts earlier in life than they would have). I think every clinic operator should state the risk very clearly, and cite the literature, and then offer their patients a mask should they be concerned, or have eye changes. And since this happens much less at pressures under 2.0, offer that option, too. Every clinic operator I spoke to about this said, "Oh, my patients like to watch movies," or "I've never seen eye changes"--yet I know of many who had eye changes...
I am sorry but am *not* going to cite all the literature here that I went and found but most of it is in the classic text on hyperbaric, in its current edition (I'm anticipating Phoiph getting upset I don't offer citations). Do *NOT* have time to be a free reference service on lymenet but want to help people avoid any issues I know of.
If you're going to continue, close your eyes or switch to a mask, and lower your pressure to 2.0 or under.
The danger is probably vanishingly small for mild hbot, although in the classic hyperbaric text, they do talk about a scuba diver going to relatively shallow dives equivalent to mhbot who developed myopia. So it depends on your genetics and sensitivity but that would be really rare.
Good luck. I think when you PM me I suggested looking at other microbes or viruses. Good luck...
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Phoiph told me she wears goggles to be safe even at the lower pressures. I wear glasses for reading and am still contemplating the goggles. Bottom line is that there is consensus to protect the eyes.
Posts: 366 | From Kalamazoo, Michigan | Registered: Jun 2008
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Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
The reason I use goggles as a precaution with mHBOT (even though you wouldn't think it would be necessary, since oxygen is breathed through a mask rather than filling the entire chamber), is because I have noticed that 02 escapes out of the vents in the mask and blows up directly into the eyes if the eyes are open.
The anterior structures of the eye, (i.e., the cornea and lens) are permeable, and the lens is particularly vulnerable to oxidative stress/oxygen toxicity. This can first show up as myopia (nearsightedness) which can progress to opacities of the lens (cataracts).
This is one of the risk factors of using higher pressures...fortunately, in some cases, the myopia stage may be reversible depending on the individual and the number of treatments they have undergone.
I found that safety goggles (the large kind with the elastic strap...without side vents) allow you to wear reading glasses underneath. Swim goggles would work even better if you don't need glasses to read (or don't care about reading in the chamber).
oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
That's a good idea (safety goggles). I just close my eyes and listen to music. Again, at mhbot pressures it's unlikely (but possible). Much more common at 2.4 ata--and with eyes open--my first month of hbot was done in a multichamber with hood where my eyes were totally bathed in 100% oxygen at high flow rate at equivalent of 50 feet underwater. I had myopic changes very quickly and was told it was a totally reversible pressure effect. I wish I'd been informed better, but later on I informed myself. Damage is done though, and once those changes occur, they often don't reverse. The more stiffness, and opacity, the less glutathione can get through, so it proceeds to progress over time. That's my only beef with the hyperbaric profession (not mhbot): they use high pressures with too little validation (based on one tiny 1982 study by Fife???) and don't warn people about the eyes.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
I only did 20 dives. I was near remission, though. It still took a few more weeks after I finished before I noticed the full effects of HBOT. For me it cleared my brain fog.
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
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I asked the nurse at my hyperbaric center about it. She said that "yes, it can cause temporary vision changes. Some people come in wearing glasses, but don't need them anymore when doing hyperbaric. It will revert back to your 'normal' after stopping HBOT. Don't get an eye exam for six weeks after you stop HBOT." Does this sound right? I'm a little concerned that my vision may end up being worse - i.e my nearsightedness staying "worse" after stopping treatment. Not that it's vision loss or anything, but a little concerning. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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