posted
According to my eye doctor and neurologist my eye sight is just fine and is actually 20/10 but I defiantly know something is
wrong. I can see things fine but when I look at the big picture or there are a ton of images to focus on like at the mall or the
super market isles the images get over whelming and my eyes strain and physically hurt. It's like my brain can't process the
images. I have floaties in my eyes like everyone else but those don't bother me as much as this does.
-------------------- T. Brown
CDC Lyme Positive Co infections? Who knows... Bands 18+ 30+39+41+45+58+66+ IGG 23+39+41+IGM Posts: 351 | From Boston MA | Registered: Oct 2013
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i have something similar and suspect it is "lyme on the brain"... not a real eye problem but a brain problem
one of the hardest things for me to do is find a certain type of cereal when i have to scan the whole aisle
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Exactly like that. Should I be doing something about it? Will it resolve with treatment? Should I find another eye doctor?
-------------------- T. Brown
CDC Lyme Positive Co infections? Who knows... Bands 18+ 30+39+41+45+58+66+ IGG 23+39+41+IGM Posts: 351 | From Boston MA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- First of all, indeed, this is disconcerting and frightening - and causes more exhaustion. However, is IS normal - for lyme, et.al.
There can be many reasons why all kinds of eye stuff happens -- and it is usually best to have your eye doctor take a look. Beyond that, there are things they won't know about unless they are ILADS educated and lyme and TBD literate.
But there can be other things going on not lyme related.
To know the ways that lyme can mess with our vision, though, first read through the NYSTAGMUS posts here.
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Certain Rx can also affect the way we are able to take in everything with our eyes.
Another point you raise in addition to actually being able to focus on a particular visual point is that ALL the stuff around is just too much to sort through.
That is also discussed in the above thread. It may or may not be about vestibular connection to eyes - &/or also include the overall toxicity of lyme, how lyme affects the BRAIN, and the ADRENAL exhaustion that won't allow us to take it all in as before, perhaps.
Tell your LLMD about this. Be sure you have support for liver and adrenals and REST when your body tells you it must. The support methods in the thread above should help. Hope so.
Oh, and go buy as many incandescent light bulbs you can before they are all sold out. There will be no more supply added to stores. But once you have those,
STAY OUT OF BIG STORES -- they are just not good for anyone but, especially for those with lyme & co. It can retard our progress by days, even weeks, with even one hour in one of those places.
It's a very high price to pay for time in such assaultive environments.
Find smaller stores, shop on line when you can (and pray for the hurried folks who have to collect all that in huge warehouses under a time clock) - or find smaller businesses to deal with . . . ask those who genuinely don't seem affected to shop for you, etc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Keebler I looked at that link but couldn't only find stuff about ears. Also when I first started showing symptoms this summer
my eyes were completely fine it wasn't until I started treatment about a month in where my eye problems developed.
-------------------- T. Brown
CDC Lyme Positive Co infections? Who knows... Bands 18+ 30+39+41+45+58+66+ IGG 23+39+41+IGM Posts: 351 | From Boston MA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- See the VESTIBULAR symptom list . . . I'll try to add that here later but just so tired.
All the vestibular stuff in the ear thread is also about eyes. You also mentioned floaters, so came back with this for you:
- note how ALL of these inner ear symptoms can also go along with lyme & co - and, sometimes, all at once.
Vestibular rehabilitation can be of help, if and ONLY IF with a therapist who is lyme literate. Well, okay, there can be some good hints if they are not, but if they are not LL, they just won't know what to make of all that is involved and that can damage a patient (sure did for me).
Especially regarding safety when walking, though, if ANY inner ear symptoms are a hassle, getting some professional "tutoring" for how to look at the whole picture and how to look where you need to look so your brain and eye balance system can be in synch . . . well in that EAR THREAD, is a discussion of all that.
Also note that -- in addition to directly addressing infection -- magnesium and liver support are key helpers.
CDC Lyme Positive Co infections? Who knows... Bands 18+ 30+39+41+45+58+66+ IGG 23+39+41+IGM Posts: 351 | From Boston MA | Registered: Oct 2013
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- If you have anyone in your life who may enjoy learning to read TO you, that would be just dandy!
Sadly, being on the computer very long is not very good for our eyes. Frequent breaks are required.
This is a lot to sort through. It's taken me years to accumulate this and hope it helps but there can be a lot to sort through. Just want to be sure everyone has all the information that might be of help, from my little corner of the world.
Along with talking with your LLMD for specifics regarding YOUR eyes, YOUR brain, etc.
And, for others who would like to learn more, this IS fascinating and will apply to everyone in some way, really.
I could see vestibular issues being a good science report for a student. What a better place to begin than with help YOU, eh? -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I read through all of those I don't know if any of those are my problem if so wouldn't the 2 eye doctors I went to pick these
things up? If this is part of the whole Lyme ordeal then I can just grit my teeth and bare it for now but I am just worried that I
am doing more damage by ignoring it and waiting. I'm only 22 too young for permanent eye issues.
-------------------- T. Brown
CDC Lyme Positive Co infections? Who knows... Bands 18+ 30+39+41+45+58+66+ IGG 23+39+41+IGM Posts: 351 | From Boston MA | Registered: Oct 2013
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Since you have seen 2 eye doctors and they both have said there is nothing wrong with your eyes, I would stop worrying.
I agree that the problem seems to be your brain rather than your eyes. We know that lyme affects the brain. So, it is likely lyme brain that is bothering you.
I really, really don't think you are going to have permanent eye issues based on what you have told us here--the problem you described and the fact that you have already seen 2 eye doctors.
Take comfort in the fact that a fellow lyme sufferer, kayak, has the same problem as you and just accept this as another thing that comes and goes with lyme disease.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Neurotoxins in the brain can cause bad brain symptoms. Your eye symptoms may be from this possibly.
A safe way to eliminate toxins is by taking chlorella. It binds with all kinds of toxins including heavy metals, and then they can be excreted, so they don't keep recirculating through your system. Clorella is a food, and all reports I have read show only beneficial effects (including my experience).
If your brain/eye effects are from inflammation, I recommend tumeric (cheap and great)(also a food). Curcumin is the active ingredient, and tumeric is my main anti-inflammatory, which alleviates all my pains and inflammation.
There is a new curcumin product BCM95, that was used in a study which had amazing results on rheumatoid arthritis. I have the study on Word doc and can cut/paste if you are interested. I myself use Source Naturals Tumeric Extract and it works fine, 2 tablets twice a day with meals, or 3times if your symptoms are more noticeable.
I have excessive tearing and sensitivity to light as part of lyme. On the computer at night, I turn the bright/dim setting to its lowest setting; this helps me to have more time on the computer.
You are so young. Please do not give up hope as most of the lyme success story patients no longer post on lymenet. One of the members here has 5 friends who have been lyme-free for several years after treatment by good LLMDs.
I will try to find the link for the TOA-free Cat's Claw study where 85% of the trial patients (who had "chronic" lyme) tested negative after 6-12 months and were symptom-free.
New studies help us direct our treatment, though it is discouraging while we are sick.
By the way, brain dysfunction can be helped (though may have to wait until infection is cured) by hyperbaric oxygen treatment, according to patients spect scans in "The Oxygen Revolution" by Dr. Harch. If it still is a problem after you are lyme-free, that is.
Take care.
Nancy
Posts: 254 | From North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
tbrown-your new at this. im old at this-like 30 yrs old...but we have the same frustration
i have had regular eye care from opthalmologists since 94 when i got a trauma induced catarac....it does not affect my vision but they wanted to watch it...i have had at least 3 opthals follow me and all any of them dx me with was extreme dry eyes. they did say DO NOT take the prescription called restatsis that is on tv all the time. they told me it would make things worse.
a few months ago i managed to get to boston-extremely difficult for me-for a 6 hr appt with one of the most famouse eye clinics in the country. after all that they told me they saw no evidence of lyme involvement(and i do think they were familiar with some of the conditions lyme can create in the eyes)...they told me i had one thing wrong and it needed a surgery that would be painful and requier many visits...but it would not stop any of the many sx i had: dry eyes, itchy, little seseme seed things coming out, blurriness, burning -on and on
also the not being able to find the cereal and the way my eyes often zoom in and out on their own
so...i feel your frustration...i do belive the cereal thing is called a problem with "figure-ground"
i remember that from college-i took educational courses to teach special ed...it is something they test for in neuro-psyc tests...not so much eye tests...
so that is why i think it is related to brain
and yest treating Bb and cos eventually is supposed to make this better...but i have been trying to improve it for 20+ yrs and it just keeps getting worse(ps i also had 2 brain injuries-so you may get better easier than me)
take care. good luck
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
I have this same problem..found no cure/improvement yet for it. I'm very frustrated.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Phoiph
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 41238
posted
Tbrown2...
What you are describing is a more of a processing/perceptual issue that occurs in the brain, and likely has little to with your eyes themselves.
The visual processing (cortical) center of the brain takes up a lot of "bandwidth"...and, when taxed (with Lyme, etc.), is unable to keep up with the demands.
It is more than just a diminished ability for the brain to process and integrate visual information...it involves an inability to sort out relevant from irrelevant stimuli, and too many signals come through at once, resulting in visual confusion, irritability, and overwhelm.
I experienced this to the extreme, but now that I am well, it has resolved completely...
Posts: 1880 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Phioph that gives me hope thanks. I see you registered jul 2013 did it take you that quick to heal or did you just register later?
-------------------- T. Brown
CDC Lyme Positive Co infections? Who knows... Bands 18+ 30+39+41+45+58+66+ IGG 23+39+41+IGM Posts: 351 | From Boston MA | Registered: Oct 2013
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posted
I was seen by a neuro-opthalmologist for floaters, light sensitivity, eye muscle pain and blurred vision - that last symptom got my attention!
He couldn't find anything wrong even though he had to anesthetize my eyes for me to be able to look at the light.
I don't see anything wrong with getting ruled out by a good eye doctor for what they know to look for.
My answer came the next day when my chiropractor suggested I try drinking mangosteen juice, an anti-inflammatory juice.
In 24 hours, all my eye symptoms had cleared up!!! Including the floaters and light sensitivity I'd had for over 20 years.
So for me, it was inflammation in the eye, and the juice can be real good at countering the inflammatory free radicals with the 43 xanthone compounds in the juice.
It's carried at healthfood stores and online. There are many blends. I like Mango-Xan as it's the most tart.
There's also a very strong one called Xango, sold multi-level. Some people swear by it, but it's too strong for me.
If you try the juice, go slowly at first and drink some water too. I'd say drink to tolerance - ie, if you don't see anything happening, drink more of it till you do!
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Hi I would try anti-malarials with heparin. It cleared my eyes.
Posts: 697 | From CA | Registered: Dec 2011
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gmb
Unregistered
posted
Interesting analogy to the cereal ilse at grocery store. Last Sunday I walked up and down the damn isle four times before I found the box of Rice Krispies I use in my gluten free meatloaf.
Darn frustrating...but didn't connect this to a vision problem at the time.
steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
Ocularborreliosis is the condition in which Lyme infects the eye. Ocular meaning "of or pertaining to the eye" - Borreliosis Meaning "Borrelia"
When it comes to infiltrating and disrupting the physical functions of the human body by Lyme Disease, the eyes are no exception. The spirochetes of Lyme Disease do congregate in specific parts of the eyes, and when they do, inflammation occurs.
An individual's eye and vision symptoms will depend on what physical part or parts of the eyes the spirochetes invade and gather in. Not only is the function of the eye (i.e., the vision) distorted, but the physical eye itself manifests unnerving symptoms. It's important to remember that because the human eye contains many complex components, a person may be subjected to not just one or two symptoms of the eye or vision, but many.
The eye is probably the most relied upon sense of the human body. Its function allows us to perceive our physical world in great detail without any true effort on our part.
Those with Lyme experience first hand the bizarre visual disturbances Borrelia has on this truly remarkable piece of evolution. The good news is that as treatment progresses, the bizarre eyes symptoms caused by the bacteria's presence will exponentially get better.
Light sensitivity
Almost everyone that has Lyme Disease has experienced a light sensitivity at one point or another. The symptom speaks for itself in that a person can't visually tolerate bright lights. Even when driving during a cloudy day, a person may feel the need to wear sunglasses.
Driving at night can be harsh as even if the opposing car doesn't have their high beams on, the direction of their lights shine directly in the line of a person's sight.
Cloudy or foggy vision
This symptom is quite common. A person with Lyme will feel as if they're visually "in a cloud" or a fog. The symptom itself manifests after sleeping or during a period of herxing. They may find as they try to focus on an object in the distance, it will appear blurry or difficult to interpret, even though the object could once be perceived clearly.
Height or depth instability
This is an unusual symptom that only can be experienced at a place of high altitude. When in a high rise building or even just a few hundred feet from the ground, looking down creates a feel of "instability".
The ground appears to move up and down but in reality there seems to be a flaw in the eye's ability to properly focus. The eyes can't confidently relay to the brain how far up a person is from the ground, thus creating an unstable feeling.
Image Delay
This symptom you'd expect from an advanced movie editing software. It's not too common but it does happen. As a person focuses on a specific object, there appears to be a delay or double image of the object when it moves. The eye perceives the object's original and new location at the same time, creating a ghost-like perception of the object.
Moving Object illusion
Here is a symptom that occurs in those without Lyme Disease but is easily corrected by an ability otherwise handicapped in the vision of those with Lyme. In being the right distance from a moving object, the brain can't determine whether it [the brain] or the object it's focusing on is moving.
The brain normally picks up the stationary objects surrounding the moving object to determine that the object is in fact moving, and not itself. In those with Lyme, even with stationary objects in the same vision as a moving object, the brain has a hard time determining whether it [the brain] or the object is moving.
Floaters
This is by far the most common visual disturbance of the eye. A person with Lyme Disease may see in their vision dots, lines, or streaks that range in colors from blue, green, yellow, or red.
The symptom itself seems to be most apparent after the eye is exposed to bright light, even if for just a split second. After turning away from an object of focus in bright light, a colored silhouette of that object may appear in a person's vision.
Phantom Image
This symptom appears to have been taken out of a horror movie. As a person turns their head, a shadow or phantom image appears for a split second in the corner of their eye. They turn back to where the shadow was perceived, only to find it was an illusion. The shadow itself, as real in the flesh as it appeared, was generated by the eye and doesn't exist outside of it. The eye fooled itself.
Textual bombardment
Reading a paragraph consisting of more than 2 or 3 lines, or closely compacted sentences, is incredibly difficult for some with Lyme Disease. When reading, the eyes focus on the specific text the brain will interpret for quick comprehension. Some people with Lyme that attempt to read a large body of text will find that their eyes simply can't focus on the specific text in their vision. When reading, it almost appears as if every other word besides the focused one is attempting to enter the focal point of the eye, creating a textual bombardment.
Reading slow gives the eyes a chance to focus appropriately on the desired text, but even still, a person may feel the large body of text is just simply too overwhelming for current focal capabilities. The inability to comprehend text itself is no visual symptom, but it goes hand in hand with this one.
Fortunately, involvement of the eye is uncommon in lyme disease. But when the eyes can be affected in many different ways by the disease.
In the early stage of the disease, many persons have conjunctivitis. In this condition, commonly called pink eye, the eyes are red and uncomfortable, and there is a discharge of pus. Unlike many forms of conjunctivitis, the type that occurs in lyme disease is not contagious.
In later stages of the disease, inflammation of the eye may develop. Parts of the eye that may be affected include the uvea, the middle layer inside the eye, the cornea, part of the outer coat of the eye; the iris, the colored circle around the pupil, and the choroid, a layer of blood vessels in the eye. Ocular symptoms can include sensitivity to light and floaters (spots in front of the eyes).
Inflammation of the optic nerve (optic neuritis) also can occur, which results in visual loss. Loss of vision can result from inflammation in the brain as well.
Persons who develop Bell’s palsy may be unable to blink or close their eyes. This dries the cornea and can result in an infection or even a hole in the cornea, which can endanger vision if not treated promptly.
posted
Steve, that post is amazing. Thank you so much.
And thanks Robin and mlg for your treatment suggestions. I am going to try the mangosteen juice for sure!
Eye symptoms I did not connect with lyme until I joined this forum. Since infected in 2009, I have had light sensitive, easily tired/red, excessively tearing eyes, and floaters.
Since my lyme symptoms got worse this summer (and I had lyme diagnosed), my eyes frequently burn and are more often red.
I have had the peripheral shadow thing in the corner of my eye at times while changing focus while driving; thought I had just missed whatever when I checked back.
Also, I kept thinking people were leaving their brights on when driving on side roads, until I realized that EVERYONE was being so inconsiderate. The headlights are so much brighter.
All this while taking tumeric and knotweed for inflammation. Took care of joint pains but not eye symptoms.
At least now we know we are just brain-sick, not crazy or losing vision forever.
May God bless this forum and all its contributors.
Posts: 254 | From North Carolina | Registered: Nov 2013
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
Steve thx-i will print out...
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I think I have this. This was my first lyme symptom that I tried to get diagnosed.
I first noticed it when I couldn't watch a football game. I had issues with the ball flying across the screen. I have huge issues watching TV/movies where there are a lot image of changes, especially if on a large screen. I can't process it.
I went to my PCP who wanted to do an MRI but insurance insisted I see an ENT. I had just about every ENT test possible which did show I had a nystagmus and and abnormal VNG.
Great post Steve. I can't look at the "image delay" or "moving object illusion" picture. They make my right eye ache.
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