posted
Like most posting on here my Lymes journey is long and full of pot holes.
Positive WB in 2010 after 8 months of misery and been through 4 rounds of Doxy with much improved joint and muscle pain but can not kick dizzyness and other neurological symptom that I now think are Babs.
GP has tested for co-infections that were all negative and referred me to and ID who is very old school and refuses to consider Babs due to the false tests and would not even consider Igenix results if I foot the bill for the tests.
And due to being an HMO my options are very limited.
I was able to talk him into 3 months of doxy and it has helped eliminate the air hunger and I am now sleeping better but the dizziness will just not completely clear.
I am now self treating with a 1200mg(3x400) Artemisinin 4 days on 3 days off pulse.
Seems to be helping and it is only been 3 weeks.
Usually feel like hell about the 4th and 5th day of the pulse.
Artemisinin at this point is my best and only option but don't know if it will work long term.
Posts: 37 | From Midwest | Registered: Jan 2014
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- No. Absolutely not. Not alone.
As with malaria, a similar intracellular protozoal infection, combination treatment is REQUIRED often employing rotation of antiprotozoal agents. This is to prevent . . . (lost the word, sorry).
Bottom line: no single agent (whether Rx or other) should ever be used alone to treat babesia. Combination required. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- As you say you have no other options . . . there are some protocols that you might seek out.
You also need more for lyme. Much more. What you got (3 months of just doxycycline) was not enough and it can set the stage for chronic lyme, having been used alone, without a different agent to address the cyst form.
Please hear a gentle tone of voice here, I am so very sad to be the one to tell you these things. Still, there are things you can do to help correct.
Others will surely reply. I will be back but right now, I'm all out of steam and hands are screaming to stop typing.
I will post a few links now but cannot offer what I might in words to go with them. Good luck. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Chronic Lymes being caused/aggravated by long term Doxy I did not know.
At this point I am going to see if my GP will at least sign off so I can get a full workup from Igenex even though I will have to foot the bill.
I will research the list of local LLMDs I was PMd(Thanks) and try to set something up with one of them.
At this point other than the dizzyness I am very functional and the Doxy and Art have given me glimpses of my old self even if they are somewhat fleeting.
If anyone has knocked out Babesia using only Art I would love to hear their story.
Posts: 37 | From Midwest | Registered: Jan 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- Re: Testing. I would not spend any money on testing right now. Save that money to see a LLMD -- or on top notch supplement / protocol that can cover many bases such as Zhang or Buhner -- or a RIFE machine.
"Positive WB in 2010" and you have not yet felt well, not received proper treatment. You don't need another lyme test.
As for likely coinfections, it is best to see a LLMD for their take on what is going on with you. Tests for coinfections (even with Igenex which is the best) are still not perfect. I would get expert advice first. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- You ask "If anyone has knocked out Babesia using only Art I would love to hear their story." (end quote)
To be clear, this is NOT a good idea to even try.
There are other things you can add to make it a combination effort. NEVER good to treat babesia with a single agent for very long. It can become resistant, and then that won't work at all anymore, making babesia even harder to eradicate.
Even beyond ILADS' LL experts, all medical literature is very clear on this point. Never use artemisinin alone (or alone for very long at all). -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Vertigo, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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[ 02-02-2014, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Catgirl
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posted
Babesia can quickly become resistant to art (not a good idea). Babs is extremely difficult to get rid of and requires rotating things. It is good that you are pulsing the art, but you need more than that, IMO. I agree with all of Keebler's info above.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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beths
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posted
How come Buhner recommends just art or sida acuta for babs?
Posts: 1276 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- I don't have time to go through his book / site right now but, as I recall, I don't think he ever suggests taking just one thing for any of the tick-borne infections but building upon each other, adding certain things.
Some of the items in the core protocol may have synergistic effects enough to "count as" a combination and help guard against resistance. Some may also have a degree of antiprotozoal properties to help as well against BABESIA.
Still, I wonder if there has been a misinterpretation if it's posted somewhere that he suggests just one thing - just one thing - against babesia. That counters all the best babesia science.
Is there a web page link or book page number to see where that might be? If a web page, there could be that a correction needs to be made. If in a book, there have been misprints from time to time in all kinds of books, so that would need to be addressed, too. -
[ 02-05-2014, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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gmb
Unregistered
posted
I'm pretty sure Buhner also supports using ABX drugs as needed.
After my 3rd cycle of Art I am feeling much better.
Head is starting to clear and for the first time in a long time I see signs of my pre-lymes self.
I am going to finish this bottle or Art and I am going to add Cryptolepis and maybe Sida acuta.
I have begun discussions with my GP who is pretty open minded about my theories and him possibly signing the Referral so I can have Igenex run a FISH test and possibly rerunning PCR and IGM/IGG tests.
Either way I am feeling hopeful and it feels great to actually be able to focus on something without feeling like I am tipping over.
Posts: 37 | From Midwest | Registered: Jan 2014
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posted
In regards to everyone posting about how babesia needs to be hit from multiple angles at once, does bartonella work the same way? I'm currently on rifampin alone for it. Planning to add HH/zithro for it soon though.
-------------------- Bart/Babs/Lyme Posts: 64 | From Upstate New York | Registered: Jan 2014
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CherylSue
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posted
Malarone was pretty good for babesia, in my experience. It helped prevent relapses.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
I finished off my babesia many years ago with artemisinin and Zithromax. If you continue to take Art by itself your babesia will become resistant to it. Then you have nothing.
Find an LLMD soon! I agree that you do not need more testing.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TNT
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: I finished off my babesia many years ago with artemisinin and Zithromax.
Lymetoo, I was reading some of your posts on other threads about zithromax and artemisinin finally curing your babesia.
You thought you remembered that you took 3 Allergy Research brand capsules daily (not at the same time) along with zithromax. That would have probably been 100mg 3x daily for the artemisinin.
You said you continued this regimen for probably 2-3 months until you were cured (this was at the end of approx. 2 years of rotating with quinine/clindamycin and other lyme meds).
What dose of zithromax did you take?
And, did you pulse the artemisinin those 2-3 months? I am curious because I am worried about building resistance to the ART by not pulsing it as TF did.
I am also intrigued because of how quickly and easily it seemed the zithro/ART combo kicked your babs. I had not heard of others using this simple combo with success until I came across yours.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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posted
I didn't even see art listed there. Did I miss it TNT?
-------------------- Lyme flare June, July, August of 2013. Diagnosed September 2014 Lyme, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, Mono Posts: 595 | From Texas Crossroads | Registered: Oct 2014
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TNT
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posted
SacredHeart,
I don't think Dr. S mentions ART on that page. I have his book, but I'm only asking about Lymetoo's personal experience....if her Dr. had her pulse it or not during those final 3 months. Also, if she took higher than the "standard" 500mg daily of azithromycin during that time. That's all I would like to know.
Lymetoo?
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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TNT
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posted
I understand the danger of using ART by itself for babs. That will cause resistance. But my question for Lymetoo centers around the question of whether it causes resistance if the ART IS taken with azithromycin, but is not pulsed.
????
It's also nice to know what others have had success with.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
If you take artemesinin daily, in about 14 days your intestines will begin making an enzyme that makes the art ineffective.
A few years ago, the study that proved this was posted on LymeNet.
It doesn't matter whether you are taking zith or anything else with it. You can't take art for longer than 14 days in a row.
If you do, you are just wasting your money and time taking art.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: [qb] I finished off my babesia many years ago with artemisinin and Zithromax.
Lymetoo, I was reading some of your posts on other threads about zithromax and artemisinin finally curing your babesia.
You thought you remembered that you took 3 Allergy Research brand capsules daily (not at the same time) along with zithromax. That would have probably been 100mg 3x daily for the artemisinin.
You said you continued this regimen for probably 2-3 months until you were cured (this was at the end of approx. 2 years of rotating with quinine/clindamycin and other lyme meds).
What dose of zithromax did you take?
And, did you pulse the artemisinin those 2-3 months? I am curious because I am worried about building resistance to the ART by not pulsing it as TF did.
I am also intrigued because of how quickly and easily it seemed the zithro/ART combo kicked your babs. I had not heard of others using this simple combo with success until I came across yours.
- Too bad we can't tag each other here like on Facebook!! I just happened to see this. I don't remember the zith dosage. Whatever would have been the average dosage. Maybe 500 mg per day? I did not pulse either one.
It intrigues me too! I was shocked that I suddenly felt fine. I quit treatment altogether about 2 months later.
Xango was also instrumental in my being able to stop all treatment. I felt so good on it that I finally got brave enough to stop all abx. That was 11 years ago.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
This post includes one study on art and proves resistance after about 5 days continuous use:
posted
I haven't read all responses, but ... Babesia does not become resistant to artemisa annua (i.e. the whole plant). Artemsinin, on the other hand, is another story. Artemisinin is a synthetic derivative of the whole plant.
I suggest buying Stephen Buhner's book on Babesia (published at the beginning of this year, so it's brandnew ...)
Add Sida acuta, cryptolepis, bidens pilosa, alchornea, salvia miltiorrhiza (all from Woodland Essence or Sage Woman Herbs).
I have Babesia duncani. I have the Babesia-typical rocking boat sensation (i.e. a type of vertigo) 24/7. I just started Buhner's new Babesia protocol.
-------------------- I appreciate all your replies. If it takes me a while to respond, it is either because I'm too sick or because I am unable to log in. From European servers, Lymenet is very frequently inaccessible for days at a time ... Posts: 235 | From Europe | Registered: Jul 2012
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