posted
Hello, I'm needing adrenal support and would like to try a product that consists of bovine adrenal tissue. I'm nervous about it, though, because I'm wondering if such a thing might suppress my immune system. I've read that cortisol supplementation can do that.
I've taken ACE -- Adrenal Cortex Extract -- in the past, and it seemed to bring on a setback, so it makes me wonder if perhaps the ACE had an immune suppression effect similar to what cortisol would do.
I really need the adrenal support, though, and don't want to avoid this supplement if there's really no concern of immune suppression. Can anyone confirm things for me one way or the other? Thanks
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Breaking up the text for easier reading for many here -
posted
I'm wondering about this too. I just stopped my Adreno-Zyme and several other supplements because my LLMD thought B6 could be increasing my anxiety.
Things haven't been improving for me so now I'm simplifying. I have so many supplements it can be hard to know what is helping or hurting...
Posts: 97 | From Rockwall,TX | Registered: Apr 2014
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Keebler
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- I can't say. However, the book by Wilson in this set may tell you. It's full of good detail.
As with the use of Cortef (hydrocortisone) which is very different actually as not from glandular source but similar idea / effect . . . My guess is that if the glandular provides a physiological replacement dose, it may be fine if you own levels are low and the range you will be getting up to in with that safe physiological range.
Many do quite fine and find that the glandulars help in ways the herbs may not.
Be sure to have a good meal in your stomach first so they "sit" better with you to begin with.
As I recall, it may have been how my stomach seems to churn from them & just overall "not for me" signals with adrenal glandulars with various trials - even in tiny amounts. I also felt very jittery, not caffeine to the moon an all around the sun.
So, be sure to start very slowly with tiny amounts to see how your body does with this and so it's not a shock to your body all at once.
[For those who may have a meat / beef allergy from a tick bite --- glandulars may need to be avoid as they are from bovine sources.]
Still, many do quite fine with the glandulars. I read once about a doctor for whom they made a world of difference for the better, after all the other adrenal support just didn't quite do all he needed.
Hope the detail here is of help. Be sure of the source - and their sources. And, if you can find a LL ND to guide you, that would be best. Detail about that here, too:
posted
Thanks for the hellp. :-)
Posts: 12 | From Tennessee | Registered: Oct 2014
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Keebler
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- If glandulars aren't your ticket, you might explore this Rx. Several with lyme & adrenal dysfunction find it to be of benefit in the physiological replacement does:
Cortef ? -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- I don't have time (geez, or the medical knowledge) to assess what this says but it seems something worth considering, asking a LL ND about if he's on track with what she says. I really didn't have much time to read it as I was looking for something quickly to explain what I meant by "glandulars"
Remember that lyme also changes things in ways those not familiar with usually don't consider or address. So there may be other things a LL ND would see in this article besides her take but it's a place to start.
She does mention adrenal glandulars are stimulatory. That's what clobbered me - and is of high caution for those with lyme who just cannot tolerate being any more stimulated until the adrenal tissue is better nourished, lyme better under control, etc. But we need all that to help lyme get under control so it's a catch-22.
The "setback" you had before with ACE -- Adrenal Cortex Extract - may have been due to over excitation to your body.
You seem willing to take this again if you think it is safe - even if you experience a "setback" -- that is commendable to a degree. IMO, though, please never take something that is supposed to work but - for you - it does not (for whatever reason), especially for SUPPORT.
Support is not supposed to make you feel worse. We get enough of that in other aspects of lyme & treatment. Support methods should help you feel better - not worse. Don't suffer through thinking it's for the best. Usually it's not. There are other ways.
This may explain it better. Good luck with your adventure.
2. Adrenal Glandulars -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Backing up, have you already had some time on adrenal support measures such as B-5, herbs, etc?
If not, I would start there, not start with glandulars, or even a formula combinations with vitamins, herbs AND glandulars.
I would stay away from all glandulars (in any amount) until you have some vitamin / nutrient / herbal support under your belt. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Good thoughts; and I'll look into the links. Meanwhile, can anyone tell me if Adrenal tissue is basically the same thing as adrenal cortex extract (even though the former is in capsule form and the latter in liquid form)? ...and are both of those "glandulars"?
This is all *very good* advice that I am going to be taking into account, yet the big answer I'm after regards the bottom-line issue of whether or not I (and all Lyme patients) should stay far away from ACE and/or Adrenal tissue supplements because of immune suppression issues. I have read that Lyme patients should never be given cortisone, because it suppresses the immune system and can cause major setbacks. The ACE I took some time back actually made me feel wonderful...but then Lyme symptoms that had formerly been quelled came crashing in again, and it took a good while to recover after stopping the ACE. That experience has made me wonder if the "no-no" about cortisone applies to ACE and Adrenal tissue supplements as well. Can anyone answer that "biggie" question for me? I don't mind experimenting and even risking feeling bad for a time as I experiment as long as I'm not doing some big no-no that's going to compromise my health long-term. Is Adrenal tissue a big no-no immune suppressant akin to cortisone or just something to use with the usual awareness and cautions? Thank you all for your gracious help!
Posts: 12 | From Tennessee | Registered: Oct 2014
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Keebler
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- [I can't read your post but] likely the Wilson book likely will answer many of your questions. The link is in the adrenal set. -
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Keebler
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- Glandulars - from animal source (as opposed to a plant from the earth). The adrenal system has 3 main components (as least in people and likely in other mammals?) . . .
so tissue from any of those parts, whether adrenal (control) tissue in the brain or the actual adrenal glands at the top of the kidneys would be considered a glandular.
Adrenal cortex is a glandular, indeed. Does not matter if in capsule or a liquid, it's where it comes from, the cow or a plant / herb, that is the distinguishing factor.
Beyond that, though, for animal sources, it is absolutely vital to get the very best in terms of where those cattle have been, what they've been exposed to and even the stress level (or torture) in their lives and at time just before death. It matters greatly in the glands that will be used.
It's just not possible to get glandulars from only grass fed, organically tended free range cattle. But do try not to get them from the typical stockyards.
At the very least, if "factory" cattle, they need to have been in a humane system (and less stressful end so no surge of toxic hormones get into the tissues) either designed according to specifications of Temple Grandin or similar.
But good luck tracking that down. Roadblocks to my search on this but since I did not do well with them, I quite looking.
I've not read of this "requirement" from anyone else but after seeing many of Temple Grandin lectures, the HBO film about her, it just makes sense to be sure what we consume is from the best managed animals - or not at all. IMO.
What's been in their diet all along matters as to the quality of the meat / tissue that we later consume. As does whether they are forced into confinement and up to their "knees" in manure.
Those exposed to high doses of all kinds of antibiotics & more farm chemicals in their feed are not going to provide the best therapeutic glandulars (nor meat that can nourish as well as grass fed, free range cattle).
The toxic stress hormones from bad treatment and especially some of the slaughter methods are not something we want any part of.
Back to adrenal issues, in general, though
The Wilson book is the place to start. Now, that's not lyme-centered so it's still just a start (as lyme complicates matters) but it's an excellent book that serves a great foundation. -
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Keebler
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Temple Grandin Livestock Handling Systems -
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WPinVA
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posted
I took it and it helped me a LOT. I don't think you can get very far with your recovery if your adrenals aren't working.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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Judie
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posted
I tried Standard Process glandulars awhile back at various times. I had an allergic reaction. My suspicion is that it was some of the additional ingredients.
You might want to try researching thyroid glandulars. There's a lot of info on those, perhaps there will be some info that will get you to the right answer on adrenal grandulars if nothing is coming up in searches for the adrenal immunosuppressent searches.
For adrenal support you might want to look into these:
I've tried all of these at some point. What's helped me the most is l-glutamine. Some people with Lyme do awful on it though, but for me it's made a HUGE difference.
You want to research the pros and cons VERY WELL before trying it it. I did and for me it was worth a try since I tried everything else. It's helped me a ton.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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posted
Thanks for all this Great Info!! It is very helpful, you people are wonderful! <3 GT44
Posts: 34 | From Prescott, AZ | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Thanks again for all the great info. For whatever it's worth, in case anyone else is looking for an adrenal supplement from free-range, well-tended cattle, the one I've purchased is from NutriCology, and this is what it says about the product...
Provides tissue from the entire adrenal gland, both medulla and cortex portions. Our natural glandular material is derived from government-inspected, range-fed animals, raised in New Zealand and Australia, whose animal husbandry regulations are among the strictest in the world. The material is lyophilized, which means it is immediately frozen, then subjected to a high vacuum that vaporizes moisture directly from the solid state.
Thanks again for all the input!
Posts: 12 | From Tennessee | Registered: Oct 2014
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Keebler
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posted
- Determined,
Thank you SO much. I sometimes wonder if my inability to tolerate adrenal glandulars might have been due to the source, or additives. I do see that this can cause GI upset, though, so they recommend with food.
I've not looked at them all but did notice that rather than a bovine source, I see that porcine glandulars are in Wilson's "dynamite" formula
(hate that name but it does seem well balanced and not too much like rocket booster but the DL-Phenylalanine in it can be too stimulating for those with lyme)
Some of these are available at various places, such as iHerb.com, etc.
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