Just wondering if anyone here has had success in treating a Babesia (?) symptom : basically a surge/jolt/rush of adrenaline right at the point of sleep onset which prevents sleep, or during sleep, which causes one to wake up. This happens repeatedly, with the worst nights resulting in no sleep. The surges are accompanied by tachycardia, heat in the limbs, sometimes the need to go to the bathroom, an a general malaise/anxiety which is very uncomfortable.
I've seen a couple of posts here and there in my search but nothing much. Looking online, I've found many who are coming off anti-anxiety or antidepressants with this symptom, so I'm wondering if it's serotonin related, don't know.
Would appreciate any insights,
Thanks so much, TR
[ 11-24-2014, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: toneranger ]
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Keebler
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posted
- Magnesium is the first order of business.
Then adrenal support. I can't elaborate yet detail in links here will be of good help to you, I hope.
posted
Thanks Keebler for the links. I have been on ReMag for a while now and am quite sure my rbc magnesium is higher than 6, but no relief. I've also tried adrenal (HPA axis) support pills to no effect.
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Keebler
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- Of course, you asked about Babesia and this in regards to that. Links above will help manage symptoms while babesia / other TBD (tick borne diseases) are addressed.
I hope those who turned around babesia will add their successes here for you.
Do you have a good LLMD? Are you just starting out or somewhere along the path already? -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Some HPA support stuff can zoom you to the moon, though. And some folks just react differently to various supplements.
If you experience that zoom stuff at night, I'd say you're on the wrong supplements. Even during the day, adrenal supplements should NEVER feel like a "boost" but should feel a gentle support. -
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Keebler
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- Re: Food Additives can zoom you to the moon
See post: Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine (3 excitatory amino acids that can be wrong for us when added as supplements, beyond a normal dietary level)
Seaweed has its own natural MSG and can be very excitatory -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Yes I have a good LLMD and am treating for lyme and co infections. I had the surges before starting the HPA support pills, so they are not related. My diet is very clean, and I'm off gluten, dairy, sugar, MSG etc.
Was just hoping someone on this forum had experience with these symptoms and success in treating it and could relate what their path looked like.
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Keebler
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- One more thought: Do you have any fluorescent bulbs? If so, switch back to the old incandescents -- or LED, just not on a dimmer switch.
Fluorescents can cause the brain to zoom. "Zoom" is just my word for it. -
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posted
Thanks Keebler. No fluorescent bulbs in my house.
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Keebler
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- there are two or three posters I can think of who found success as you seek against babesia. I hope they see this.
Sorry nothing so far has helped and you certainly do seem to have done all the ordinary things to address it so far.
You might edit your "headline" to include babesia success?. Just click on the tiny pencil & paper icon above your first post and edit the subject / headline as you wish to attract the most specific detail.
For me, andrographis calmed me done far better than anything else. But it's not easy for everyone to take. I'll post info about it below.
Good luck -
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Keebler
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posted
- The sedative nature of this was very helpful to my ability to rest / sleep.
ANDROGRAPHIS paniculata - LINKS SET -
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GretaM
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posted
Wow! Is this a babesia symptom?
I always thought it was bartonella.
But I am darn relieved someone else has this.
It causes me no end of grief trying to sleep with these popping in just as I am drifting off to sleep.
I am not on, nor are in withdrawl for antidepressants/anti anxiety meds.
Melatonin, valerian, zolpidem and benedryl at night do not sedate me enough to stop these.
During this adrenalin rush I do not know where I am, I feel suffocated, and my skin is so warm, almost the sensation of burning me from the heat reflecting back off the blanket.
Not that I would wish it on anyone, but thanks for making me feel better by knowing I am not the only one.
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poppy
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I treated babesia successfully and do not associate your description with babesia at all. Would have put all my money on lyme.
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Silverwolf
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posted
Hi <<<<< toneranger >>>>>,
I didn't even connect it w/ adrenal issues, but I get this,especially in the middle of the night. I wake up, heart pounding, ,confused,and way over warm,sweating. Like i am suddenly jerked awake.
Greta-pack-sis' sorry to hear you get it too.
And Keebler, thanks for the wealth of information you find and gather links to post for us.
I feel really dumb sometimes, trying to piece info' together, I know it is the illness... but Aaarrghhh OwooooWOOooo.
Toneranger, I hope you can find help for it. I seem to have the dread three Lyme and co's [w/ the Bartonella and Babesia], from what the specialist LLND I saw back in '06 could determine.
[edit in: I do not take, and am not coming off of antidepressants. The last time,I tried and antidepressant,my startle factor rose to the point of ridiculous in short order,last year I told the Dr. no way not havin' this... he agreed].
Will keep you in my tho'ts.
Jus' Silverwolfi here
-------------------- 2006,May-August2006 Dx w/ Lyme/Bartonella/White Matter Lesion Disease on Brain. [ Clinical Dx w/ two positives and several IND's on the tests from Igenex ], Prior Dx of CFIDS/CEBV 1992, and FMS '93-'94 Diabetes*2 Dx 10/'08 Posts: 3581 | From SE Idaho | Registered: May 2006
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Keebler
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posted
- Well, there is so much to consider. One more set - as the ability for our body to relax often does depend upon the state & stress load of our liver & kidneys. A "hot" "angry" "overworked" liver will make a lot of busy work for the brain at the worst times when we need sleep. And many Rx sedatives just add to the liver stress load.
Have you just started treating this via your bartonella regimen?
Yes, everything I've read online seems to be people describing their symptoms, you and I are not alone, that's for sure. In fact, adrenaline surge related sleep disruption seems to be very common. It's frustrating... Not being able to sleep is like not being able to eat or drink...
I just keep sending out kind/loving energies out there, hopefully someone will chime in.
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Yes, sweating/night sweats is definitely part of it too, I forgot to mention that.
Poppy, I don't have the muscle/joint pain or stretch marks associated with bartonella, so that's why I'm guessing Babesia. But it could definitely be lyme itself. How did you treat your Babesia, would love to hear? I'll try searching for your prior posts.
Keynote: Bottoms of feet painful, burning, and/or numb. Pain; joint specific pain, pain in general. Lymphadenopathy. Gastritis. Conjunctivitis. Mildly elevated liver enzymes and/or splenomegaly. Headache. Feeling hot to occasional fever. Mood: Moderate to severe Cognitive: moderate to severe Pain: Severe Sleep: Significant disruption
Babesia Species Subset
Keynote: Severe depression (suicidal ideation) and/or severe agitation. Drenching sweats with chill and/or hot, temperature intolerance. SOB. Tachycardia. Mood: Severe Cognitive: Severe Pain: Seldom (occasional ankles/feet, wrists/hands.) Sleep: Disruptive sleep, frequent waking
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
My husband gets this when his Babesia flares. Anything that treats Babs (Rx or herbal) takes care of it.
I have much worse Babesia symptoms overall, but I never get this symptom. I do get frequent awakenings and have poor deep sleep, but I don't get the adrenaline surges.
My HPA axis is fried, but much better with consistent Babesia treatment.
My husband's HPA axis seems unaffected, though I guess it could be responsible for these adrenaline surges.
So there is variability in symptoms from person to person.
I get some of what you describe when my vagus nerve gets inflamed. This is rare for me and generally an allergic reaction to a med.
Thanks for sharing. Sounds like your husband has had it on and off... Has he had more success with herbal than Rx?
Yeah it feels like this is ultimately due to brain inflammation caused by the infection whether its babesia or lyme, or bart/something else.
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BoxerMom
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posted
Agree on the brain inflammation. Just makes everything miserable.
He's done better with Rx. But all the Art derivatives work really well, too.
My Babesia finally became resistant to Mepron, though that was my best med for a long time. Now I'm doing well on Tindamax, Zith, Artesunate. Rotating GSE, cryptolepsis, Sida acuta.
Phoiph
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posted
toneranger...
The surge when trying to fall asleep was one of my first symptoms, before I was on any meds, and before I knew I had Lyme, Babesia, or Bartonella.
It was very out of character for me, as I had always been a great sleeper.
I believe it has to do with brainwave abnormalities that trigger reactions in the body.
It seemed as if once my brainwaves reached a certain frequency (i.e., near sleep), an alarm would be tripped, and I would go into hypervigilant mode.
Later, as I became more ill, the same thing would happen, but it would feel more like falling into a "black hole", and result in something like a seizure...very difficult to describe, but a torturous symptom.
As time went on, myriad other symptoms trumped this one...so I had almost forgotten about it until I read your post.
As I became well, it took a long time for normal sleep to return. A neurologist friend of mine says that is because sleep architecture is very complex, involving many parts of the brain to be in synch.
Anyway...I am 100% well now...no meds...you can read more via this topic if you wish:
posted
I get something similar. I get a feeling in my head seeming to come from from base of skull that's like a moment of disconnect followed by a moment of fear or despair which only lasts a few seconds, then hot feeling like a hot flash over head and arms mainly. I have mentioned this to two Drs. - one an llmd- and no one seems to know what I'm talking about. I get it during the day also. I thought it might be a type of seizure but could it be an adrenaline rush. It is so frustrating because it is hard to explain and I feel like the drs think I'm nuts when I tell them.
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Thank you for sharing your inspiring story. If I may ask, I read on the thread you linked to that you did 750 dives. So was that basically about 5 years of mild hyperbaric treatment?
What you have said about helping and balancing the immune system makes a lot of sense, it's also Byron White's approach for the most part from what I understand.
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I just saw a video of someone who was giving a hyperbaric testimonial for her lyme, and she said she was significantly better after 18 sessions (back to being functional) and was continuing her treatment.
Do you remember by any chance how long it took for your adrenaline surges more specifically to stop?
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Phoiph
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posted
Well, in my experience it takes many more than 18 sessions to experience lasting gains...mHBOT takes commitment over time, but what treatment doesn't?
I can't give you a specific time as to when the adrenaline surges stopped. It would be more accurate to say that they eventually morphed into complete insomnia, and at some point there came a time where my adrenal system became exhausted (not only from this response but from fighting the disease[s]in general). I continued to have raging panic, insomnia, and the "black hole" experiences but the adrenaline surges were not as prominent over time (not necessarily a good sign though).
I was in an extreme state for 8 years, and unable to take medications/herbs/supplements (only homeopathy) for the last 5 (also the period of time I was homebound). It was the point of greatest despair that I began mHBOT, and although I believed in the science behind it, I really had no hope left that I would ever recover, much less fully.
After a few months of consistent, daily mHBOT, I started to notice minute changes. I recovered in a 2 step forward, 1 step back pattern, and although it was a rocky road, over many months time, I eventually gained my "self" back, and all symptoms disappeared.
Posts: 1883 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
Yes, I have this "startle awake" sleep symptom, it is horrible. I wasn't even able to lie down for a nap, just as I would fall asleep I would get a terrible surge of panic.
I'm in treatment for Lyme with an LLMD, abx, and I most certainly have a babesia type bug, judging from the horrifying herx response I get from any attempt to treat babesia. Don't know about bart, I don't think I have that.
I am also seeing a good herbalist and he thinks this symptom is adrenal surges, as you've said. He added blue vervain to my regimen and suddenly the panic sensations have diminished to almost nothing (has taken about 10 days). There may be other herbal treatments that are similarly soothing to the nerves. I really recommend a good herbalist if you can find one--mine seems to be able to help me a lot with symptoms that the LLMD can't.
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canefan17
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posted
I get this symptom and always associated it with Bartonella and food additives, etc.
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posted
Another thing that is really helping me a lot is Qigong exercises. This is gentle, slow moving meditation, like Tai Chi but less complicated.
We are in this contant state of stress from illness--our fight-or-flight response is constantly triggered. I think I have been in this agitated state for years! I am familiar with the usual solutions for this problem, Mindful Meditation and also slow breathing exercises, but have not been able to do either of these just because my brain feels so electrified. I literally can't calm down enough to even start.
Qigong is similarly meditative, with slow movements and controlled breathing. It's easier for me to focus on, maybe because it involves your whole body? An hour of this and I feel euphoric, floating.
Between this and the blue vervain (I also take a million other things, magnesium, etc.) I am finally able to relax enough to sleep and don't wake up suddenly in terror. What a relief!
Posts: 261 | From Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
So...when I began to treat Babesia (Duncani) with malarone and artemesinin...I would get these shaking sensations most of the time as I was just going into a deeper sleep. My hands would be pulsating and then I noticed my heart was beating rapidly. It would happen every 4 days or so on a regular pattern. I believe it has something to do with autonomic dysfunction and is very much babesia related - and I also believe it has to do with an adrenaline surge that kicks in when lying down and entering into sleep. I treated lyme for 2 years and didn't get this sensation on a regular basis (maybe once every month and a half or when I was exhausted feeling) but when I began babesia treatment it began to cycle regularly so that is why I strongly believe it is babesia (autonomic) related. Best to you!
Posts: 123 | From Washington State | Registered: Dec 2013
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posted
So...when I began to treat Babesia (Duncani) with malarone and artemesinin...I would get these shaking sensations most of the time as I was just going into a deeper sleep. My hands would be pulsating and then I noticed my heart was beating rapidly. It would happen every 4 days or so on a regular pattern. I believe it has something to do with autonomic dysfunction and is very much babesia related - and I also believe it has to do with an adrenaline surge that kicks in when lying down and entering into sleep. I treated lyme for 2 years and didn't get this sensation on a regular basis (maybe once every month and a half or when I was exhausted feeling) but when I began babesia treatment it began to cycle regularly so that is why I strongly believe it is babesia (autonomic) related. Best to you!
Posts: 123 | From Washington State | Registered: Dec 2013
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posted
Sillia, I've always had trouble describing the feeling, but "surge of panic" describes it well for me.
Posts: 194 | From Pa | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
patty7, when I talk to health care providers about it I call it a "panic sensation" to make it clear I am not actually panicking ABOUT anything. It is completely unmotivated, just hits me. I'm sure you would agree, it's nothing like 'anxiety,' that doesn't describe it at all!
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