Topic: Questions about Ivermectin + Protomyxzoa need info ASAP
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
I am supposed to start this protocol tomorrow
My doctor rx’d it for 10 days, 3 mg twice a day. [Mods: I’m afraid I shouldn’t be saying dosage, but want feedback! If you need to take that out, I’ll do that via PM.]
I’ve had it before for a day or two at a time every month for a couple of months (forget exactly), and had no reactions or benefits that I was aware of. But I felt that that was likely way too little for good effect.
I have questions out for my doctor, but want answers also from people who have take it.
• In your experience/knowledge , should you take it with no other killing meds, in order to avoid too much die-off?
• What was your experience of it in terms of die-off reactions or side-effects?
• Benefits that you experienced?
I most likely have Protozmyxzoa (forget the full name). I know that
• people have said that you need to have an extremely low fat diet to deal with that pathogen. However, I have a metabolism that needs a lot of fat, or I am starving all the time!! What to do about that??!!
Thank you, guys!
Rumigirl
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
GretaM
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 40917
posted
It seems like a very low dose, unless you are very skinny. Like under 100lbs.
I didn't take it with any other abx, just herbs for bartonella.
It really really helped air hunger and shortness of breath.
However my dose was 3 times yours.
And afterwards, when the iver was done, bartonella symptoms flared and went out of control.
So now I am back on bart abx.
My doc said it is normal for iver to flare bartonella, and sometimes uses it as a challenge med.
Just an FYI in case you have/had bart.
My writing is terrible today, sorry if it is choppy. Does your doc plan on keeping you on iver for a long time if it helps with proto?
Posts: 4358 | From British Columbia, Canada | Registered: Jun 2013
| IP: Logged |
Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
Agree with Greta, 3 mg 2x/day is a low dose, and a day or two per month is nothing. I have taken way more than that. Docs determine dosages based upon the individual, so if you're sensitive to certain meds, that may be the reason for the lower dose. Or if you're on another med, that could be the reason as well. Everyone is different as far as dosage goes.
I have herxed on iver before, so it's good to try just one med at a time to see how you react to it. Proto herxes are nastier than lyme. Much worse for me, but maybe that's just me. Benefits are air hunger and sweats go way down.
If you eat a high or even moderate fat you will be wasting your time trying to kill it (gasoline to a fire). It thrives on fat. I've tried adding fat in and it just makes it worse.
Starving all the time is a symptom of parasites. The more you work on them, the less starving you will be. Very low fat and eating more carbs works for me. Fortunately proto treatment hits parasites (Dr. K protocol).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Thank you both. I am supposed to do it for 10 days at this dose.
It was the previous doc that gave it to me for only 1 or 2 days per month (a while ago).
I'm thin, but not less than 100 pounds, thank goodness! I am sensitive to meds, but not to all meds.
He is giving it to me "to de-worm" me. I don't think he really knows much about Protomyxzoa.
What is a decent dosage? PM me, if need be.
I'm not starving all the time, but I do have a kind of metabolism that requires a lot of fat; that is not at all uncommon. (I've been a health care practitioner for decades, dealing with metabolic balancing and do know my stuff in this regard).
Of course, I may well have parasites. I have dealt with parasites, both with meds and with herbs, etc., on and off for decades (after a lot of travel to India, Turkey, Cairo, etc. decades ago).
That said, I probably do still have parasites of some kind, as most do.
I really don't know how to deal with the fat issue. It really is not just parasites that makes me need fat in my diet---and plenty of animal protein.
Greta, thanks for the warning about it flaring Bart! Oh, joy! Better to be forewarned.
How long did you guys need to take it to get rid of Protomyxzoa? Actually, I remember people saying that you don't get rid of it, just that it gets better with treatment and the low fat diet. Is low animal protein also needed?? Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Hubby took 12 - 15 mg daily for 3 or 4 months if I remember correctly. He did not have FL1953 but some other blood borne protozoa.
I do agree that if you kill babesia or any other blood borne protozoa it could bring out bart or any other blood borne infection.
IV flagyl is what activated hubby's ehrlichia/anaplasma or whatever rickettsia type infection he had.
Ivermectin can be combined with just about any and all meds - has one of the best side effect profiles of all the tickborne meds - few side effects in other words.
Hubby took the horse paste form with a spoon of almond butter just before bed.
Babesia supposedly multiplies at night so a night time dose was suggested by his doc. Not sure if the same is true for FL1953 or not.
Good luck.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
I believe Dr K's protocol is 48mg per day, but I couldn't take that much. I've taken 12mg most of the time, but sometimes more. Others here have taken much more though, and some less. It's all up to whatever the individual can tolerate.
It would be good if you could find a doc who is on board with Dr. K's protocol, as it's the main component for hitting proto.
My doc told me to eat more fat, coconut oil, fish oil, meat, etc for my immune system, but that was prior to discovering proto. Unfortunately fat and any animal products feed proto (it's the arginine), and did so on me. I slowly got worse.
I hear what you're saying about you needing fat in your diet. I need it too, but I had to make a choice. You can always try what Nefferdun did. She knocked it down another way and is in remission (there's a good thread).
I believe Dr. C has been successful at killing it. Her protocol is somewhere on here too (Dr. K protocol, McDougall (vegan, low fat) diet, etc). She says that once you kill proto, all the other coinfections are much easier. Proto protects all of them. I am still working on it. It fights hard to live but I'm knocking it back slowly on Dr. C's protocol.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
OMG, thank you both----this is essential info!!! My doc is not who I would like to be working with (in some ideal world, which doesn't exist!). But he is trying. I guess I will start with this and go from there. Sigh.
If I were to go on a vegan, low fat diet, I would be a mess! I did that for close to 10 years a long time ago, thinking it was the healthiest diet. Wrong! It nearly killed me! I was on the floor by the end, unable to function at all.
Of course, I also had all the TBD's without knowing what I had at the time, but I clearly have a metabolism that doesn't allow me to be healthy on that diet.
Another question: After the Ivermectin, and then Coartem, I am supposed to go on Mepron, Zith, and Art. I have done really well on Mepron before. It helped me a lot and I didn't have bad herxes (auto-correct keeps trying to make that "heroes!!" lol). Of course, I still have Babs though.
For Mepron, of course, you have to have a high fat intake when you take it. So now what??!!
I presume you guys think, from your experience, that it is best to stay on a low fat diet and Ivermectin, rather than going over to Mepron and high fats. Please let me know what your take on this
is. My doc doesn't really know much about Protomyxoa, I don't think----or even the best dosages of Ivermectin for other parasites. Or he is being cautious with me, knowing that I am very sensitive to many meds----but not all meds.
Thank you!
[ 12-12-2014, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: Rumigirl ]
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ivermectin has been the most helpful thing I have taken, not sure if I have proto or not. Many of my sx disappeared with it, now my bart is going crazy.
I took a couple 12 mg doses every day for a couple weeks, then backed off to taking it every other, sometimes a couple days in a row if I feel like I need it.
I am also in a conundrum about diet for the same reasons. Over 10 years ago I ate a vegetarian, usually vegan diet for a couple of years, thinking it was the best for my health, and by the end my body was wrecked.
Switched to a diet high in fat with animal proteins, and I thought it was the answer to everything. I healed a lot of nutritional damage, but was puzzled because of all the problems that came up or got worse over the years when they should have gotten better. It was the TBD's. Makes me realize how very important diet really is.
I can reduce fat a little bit, but can't cut it out without major issues. I often wonder about coconut oil, as it is supposed to have antiparasitic properties, if it could be allowable as a fat source when fighting proto.
Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014
| IP: Logged |
Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
I did malarone with very little fat. It still worked.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
Catgirl
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 31149
posted
Just bumped a thread on a low fat diet re Dr. F. interview (good info and input from others).
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
| IP: Logged |
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
quote:Originally posted by Catgirl: I did malarone with very little fat. It still worked.
Malarone had 2 meds in it, whereas Mepron is the one, which does require a lot of fat for it to work. He rx'd Mepron, which is what I wanted, as it has helped a lot before. Sigh. So complicated!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
quote:Originally posted by phantukk: The standard dose is 200micrograms per killogram of body weight, that is the dose listed in "the clinicians guide to pharmaceutical medicines".
Ivermectin is hard on the liver and hypersensitizes your P450 enzymes so that they metabolize it faster, it's your body's response to being poisoned.
A way around the P450 enzyme response is done with grapefruit juice, bergamot. Drinking grapefruit juice an hour before taking Ivermectin will reduce the efficiency of your p450 enzymes to metabolize Ivermectin so more gets in the blood.
Ivermectin wouldn't be part of a thoughtful approach, the actual complexities involved don't allow it to work.
"Grapefruit juice, and grapefruit in general, is a potent inhibitor of the cytochrome P450 CYP3A4 enzyme, which can affect the metabolism of a variety of drugs,"
The dose your doctor is suggesting is quite low so this will allow the liver enzymes to more readily adjust and metabolize it without much effect.
if you do the math a dose of 6mg a day is for a body weight of 33 pounds, unless you are a midget- dwarf-munchkin then this goes against normal dosing standards.
Yeesh! Maybe I should wait until next week to see if he will up the dose before I pick it up from the pharmacy.
#1: I do NOT believe he had Protomyxzoa in mind when he rx'd this.
#2 He said this was to "de-worm" me, i.e., worms of some kind.
#3: This doc is not the most thorough, etc.
#4 He knows I am very sensitive to SOME meds, but, actually, not all meds. Maybe he was being cautious? The amount of discrepancy between what he rx'd and what the indication is, I think he just didn't have it right.
But I will have to wait until Monday to find out. He may be irked at me to question it, as my case already is complex, and I asked for a ton of rx's, which irked him a lot!! Truthfully, he rarely gets irked, but this time he did. If I only had an MD . . .
Thank you sooo much, all!!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
I just did the math for my dosge according to what phantukk said above. (I've gained a few #s recently, due to Thanksgiving & lack of exercise---LOL!). So I came up with 11.52 miligrams.
Is that the dosage times 2 for twice a day, or once a day??
I tried to look it up, but the various sites are saying that it is one dose period!! (Not for this chronic stuff!).
And I gather that many need to use much more than that anyway. Arghh!
As I said, I am sensitive to SOME meds, but do fine with even high doses of other meds, like Mepron, for instance.
PS I looked it up and Merck (manufacturer) says 200 micrograms per kilogram as a one time dose! LOL. That really is unrealistic!
So I'm wondering what dose to ask the doc for---which doesn't mean I'll get it, but I will try. The other alternative is to buy the horse paste to augment on my own. Suggestions? (I hear it tastes terrible, if I remember right).
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
phantukk, and whoever else answers,
You said, what I thought, also, that it wouldn't be a thoughtful protocol.
What do you think would be a thoughtful protocol? Please PM me, if necessary. Thank you, all!
Phantukk, I am really interested in what protocol you came up with that got you well. I've been at this far, far too long---almost 9 years.
Sadly, I wasted years doing only natural treatments, and had tons of horrific herxes with tons of detox, and only got much, much worse.
Abx, etc. has helped me the most, but I have had an uncountable number of tick bites over my entire, long life, with increasing illness and permanent damage before being correctly diagnosed.
And to boot, I have had an unreal number of obstacles: being taken off treatment over and over and over again, due to losing my LLMD 4 times with no warning!!!, plus being taken off tx numerous times, due to low WBC's and neutrophils, etc. That last part is finally over, I hope, as I finally got over Ehrichiosis, I believe, so the WBC's & neutrophils are no long plummeting.
Guys, I don't know what I/we would do without each other to sleuth this stuff out! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Greta how interesting that Iver flared your bart. I would say that DEC flared mine and now I am trying to rein it in!
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic