posted
Hello, I am rushed for time because I am meeting with Doctor shortly and I would like to present her with more information about my chronic lyme. She placed me on a strong digestive enzyme protocol and I had intense herx response within an hour which continued for days until I finally realized my symptoms were perhaps a result of taking the enzymes. I have read that the microbial enzymes somehow trigger the cyst for of the spirochete. Is anyone familiar with this reaction. Also, my blood tests were flagged for a low White blood cell count and high neutrophils and low basophils. I remember reading an article about neutrophils in relation to lyme but I don't remember what it said (go figure). I would appreciate any information based on personal experience, professional advice or medical research/documentation (best kind to hand to the doc). Thank You!!
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
A herxheimer reaction occurs when bacteria is killed and toxins are released into bloodstream. I doubt enzymes killed Lyme or any coinfections (but I could be wrong).
Enzymes taken on an empty stomach AWAY from food have been known to have an effect on parasites in the gut though. I think there are even some enzymes that people take that chews away macro parasites like tapeworms.
You may have just had a poor reaction to the enzymes (sensitivity issue, etc) and it made you feel like crap. Isn't always a herx - be careful with that thinking. It's gotten me in trouble many times.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Thank you, I appreciate your response ... I did take the enzymes with food as directed. I guess I assumed it was herxing because it is SO SPECIFIC and INTENSE (like herx response ... nothing else like it)!! I just found an article which also suggested this response to the high dose of microbial enzymes but they emphasized the necessity of following it with up with an antimicrobial to go after the "activated" cysts (sorry, I don't have the technical terms down). The link to the article is below and the information is under enzyme therapy.
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I believe the enzymes this guy is talking about are systemic enzymes such as Lumbrokinase, nattokinase, & serrapeptase.
There is some evidence that they can help with cysts but must be taken on an empty stomach 30-60 mins away from food.
I take Serrapeptase for it's ability to break down fibrin, thin the blood, and decrease inflammation. Lymies tend to have slow thick blood and these systemic enzymes help with that.
Digestive enzymes like protease, cellulase, amylase, etc.. work only in the gut to my knowledge.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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TerryK
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posted
Not exactly sure what microbial enzymes are. Do you mean probiotics or something else?
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
This is taken from the article and the enzymes he is referring to are the same in my digestive enzyme protocol.
Enzyme Therapy Dedicated doctors to the treatment of Lyme have been diligently looking for answers. Over the past two years or so it has been found that taking sufficient enzymes between meals will dissolve the Lyme cyst. This is a major breakthrough for up until now there was no known way to attack the cyst that is believed to hide in deep tendon, joint and muscle tissue. Regular human type digestive enzymes have been found to do the job but they must be taken in a very specific protocol at high dosages. This is a nontoxic therapy. The enzymes may bring to you added benefits like clearing out your vascular system and alleviating inflammations of a wide variety.
posted
Ive taken over the counter enzymes and now take prescription enymes- creon or zen pep.
I herx very easy but these don't seem to bother me at all.
They do help with digestion when my stomach is off.
To be honest I found the over the counter brand(sources natural) to work just as well as the prescription.
Maybe the enymes ere eating yeast in your gut and thats causing herxing just a thought
Posts: 227 | From fairhaven ma | Registered: May 2015
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I started using digestive enzymes between meals many years ago, before I knew I had lyme. I got really sick on them presumably because they were breaking up biofilms and releasing microbes and debri.
I found that I did not get as sick once I was on abx for lyme.
They will supposedly help clear debri in your vascular system. I personally believe they release a number of things including microbes and toxins.
Personally I think it makes sense to make sure you are killing whatever is being released as well as binding the toxins.
You might consider doing a search on lymenet as I recall someone writing about detrimental effects of digestive enzymes on tissues. Sorry I can't remember details of that theory.
I'm not a doctor.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Thank you Terry !!! I have had the same response with them twice and my concern is not what they are doing, but to go after the toxins/microbes that are released. My doctor thinks I am way off base. I thought I would ask people here in case someone has experienced the same and/or knows where to look to find more information. I appreciate all the responses and I will do the search.
WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581
posted
I take digestive enzymes and they seem to help with digestive symptoms and yeast, so I too was wondering if you could be experiencing a yeast die-off.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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