LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter



Tax deductible

The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.
In the United States, your donations are tax deductible.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Does this sound like babesia?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Does this sound like babesia?
BuffyFan
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 34679

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BuffyFan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I started having night sweats, just the back of my neck and only at night. The sweats just make my pillow damp, so not drenching sweats. My temperature is also higher in the middle of the night. 99.1-99.8, it is normal as soon as I wake up in the morning. No sweats or hot flashes during the day. My doctor thinks it might be babesia even though I tested negative.

She said I could still have it and wrote scripts for Malarone and Mepron and I am to pick whichever is cheaper. Which one would you choose and why?

Posts: 287 | From somewhere | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
me
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45475

Icon 1 posted      Profile for me     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My blood test came out negative, but the babesia showed up on my blood smear. I got night sweats, fevers, headaches, neck and back pain, muscle aches, swimmy-head feeling, etc.

I take mepron along with other stuff. I like my LLMD and trust him. I don't know if that helps, but I hope so. Best wishes to you.

Posts: 1431 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
1. Be sure to address pillow dampness and not let sweat get into the actual pillow. If it does, be sure to manage the mold or microbes that could grow there.

The hard part of this is that cotton is cooler but can let the pillowcase then get wet. At least try to have cotton as the layer your head rests upon and any other fabrics closer to the pillow.

If the pillow is foam, that could cause you to sweat for a couple different reasons: chemicals added; foam does not breathe. A cotton towel that you can change out nightly might be helpful.

But since you obviously did not have this problem before and your pillow is likely not new that may not be relevant here.

All cotton night clothes / sheets best. If you use a petroleum based / fleece blanket, try to have a cotton blanket between your cotton sheets and your outer bed cover so that the cotton blanket layer will help you not get too suffocated.
-

Posts: 48001 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
When babesia was its worst for me, nighttime was the time of the drenching sweats. Daytime only when I wore synthetic clothes (learned that the hard way).

I think there is something about the clock that makes the night sweats just more in tune with babesia.

As you have lyme, the chances are extremely high that you'd also have babesia. And there are many strains so testing can be very difficult.

As for treatment, babesia should never be treated with just one thing. It requires combination treatment whether Rx, specific herbs or both. Rotation is also necessary from time to time.

If any Rx or herb is used solo, it would be only for a very, very short time frame such as a few days where you could get used to a new med and see how it works with you.
-

Posts: 48001 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Be sure to read all of what Harrod Buhner has written about babesia, books, website. He has a new edition out now, too.
-

Posts: 48001 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jordana     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't like either choice. They're quinolones. My next plan of attack is to hit it with Buhner's protocol which is really intense, repeatable, and nontoxic.
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LymeNotLymes
Member
Member # 45544

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LymeNotLymes         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It really does sound like babesia, especially the night time elevations in body temperature which is normal by morning.

I would take either mepron or malarone (they are quinonos, not quinolones) and pair it with artemisinin.

--------------------
CDC positive for: Lyme & Babesia duncani
Clinical diagnosis of: Bartonella

Posts: 90 | From Rocky Mountains | Registered: Apr 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WPinVA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jordana:
[QB] "I don't like either choice. They're quinolones."

Jordana, please be careful what you present as a fact. You could really lead someone astray. Mepron isn't a quinoline at all. It's not even an antibiotic and it's exceedingly useful for babesia.

Yes, I agree that it sounds worth trying a medication for babesia due to the suspicious sweats. Mepron was really very helpful for me. I never tried Malarone so can't opine on one vs. the other.

Definitely read up on Mepron. I *think* it is supposed to be taken with zith but I may not be remembering correctly.

Another thought is artemenisin (I always misspell it). Not strong enough to do the whole job, but could be a good place to start.

Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jordana     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi there:

Please refer to this paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Monique_Andersson2/publication/10797694_Development_of_the_quinolones/links/0deec5165701d85f23000000.pdf

Second paragraph:

"Quinolones were derived from quinine."

Mepron:

http://www.rxlist.com/mepron-drug.htm

"MEPRON (atovaquone) is a quinone antimicrobial drug for oral administration. The chemical name of atovaquone is trans-2-[4-(4-chlorophenyl)cyclohexyl]-3-hydroxy-1,4-naphthalenedione. Atovaquone is a yellow crystalline solid that is practically insoluble in water. It has a molecular weight of 366.84 and the molecular formula C22H19ClO3. The compound has the following structural formula:"

It seems to me to be enough chemical similarity to be not only a quinolone but also an antibiotic ( note the word "antimicrobial").

One other reason I would not take either Mepron or Malarone ( which both contain atovaquone) is because quinine is linked to something called Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome, which has about the same symptoms as severe untreated neurological Lyme. This reaction can come on within one dose of quinine or any quinine-based drug.

I'm not telling anyone not to take it. But I did say I would not.

Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LymeNotLymes
Member
Member # 45544

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LymeNotLymes         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Once again, they are not quinolones. If you are unsure about this, then call your pharmacist. I know many many people who cannot tolerate quinolones at all but tolerate mepron and/or malarone just fine.

More than one Lyme doctor has said that herbals may be able to get Lyme into remission, but not the coinfections.

Babesia is nothing to fiddle around with. If a person really has it, and I'm not just talking about being clinically diagnosed based on some symptoms that may or may not be related to babesia, then take the mepron or malarone.

You won't come across anyone who has cured their lab confirmed babesia with herbs alone. I've searched high and low myself. If I am wrong, then please have this person come here and talk about their herbal cure.

--------------------
CDC positive for: Lyme & Babesia duncani
Clinical diagnosis of: Bartonella

Posts: 90 | From Rocky Mountains | Registered: Apr 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jordana     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
LNL:

Quinolones are not Fluoroquinolones. Fluoroquinolones are a quinolone with a flouride molecule attached to increase its ability to penetrate tissue.

But Quinine is a Quinolone.

I think if you search this site itself you'll find people who have cured their babesia with herbs and possibly other therapies. But I do agree babesia is a serious disease.

Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LymeNotLymes
Member
Member # 45544

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LymeNotLymes         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, not one has been cured of lab confirmed babesia with herbs alone. Not one, and I and others have searched.

We weren't discussing quinine or whether or not quinolones are fluoroquinolones. My statement was in response to you claiming that mepron and malarone are quinolones, which they are not.

--------------------
CDC positive for: Lyme & Babesia duncani
Clinical diagnosis of: Bartonella

Posts: 90 | From Rocky Mountains | Registered: Apr 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jordana     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Atovaquone is Mepron, no?

Here is a pubmed paper entitled: "Antimalarial Quinolones.."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18082162

There are people who have cured their babesia with natural methods -- but I was really only stating my opinion, preference and reasoning to the OP.

Now we have both stated our opinions. However it is a fact that Mepron and Malarone are quinolones.

Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LymeNotLymes
Member
Member # 45544

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LymeNotLymes         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That paper does not state that Mepron/atovaquone is a quinolone because it is not. Mepron is a quinone, and quinones are not quinolones. The paper you referred to was discussing the possible future of quinolone derived antimalarials not yet on the market. It is not saying that atovaquone is a quinolone.

Please, for all of us who have lab confirmed babesia, have those who also have lab confirmed babesia come on here and let us know what the herbal cure is.

I'm going by more than just opinion. I'm going by my experience of nearly 15 years and of the experiences of others with babesia.

I'm also going by the experiences of more than one LLMD regarding herbal treatment alone for babesia.

So far you have been corrected by two people regarding the fact that Mepron is not a quinolone. Please stop misleading people on here.

--------------------
CDC positive for: Lyme & Babesia duncani
Clinical diagnosis of: Bartonella

Posts: 90 | From Rocky Mountains | Registered: Apr 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Jordana     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I could send you a lot more papers that would argue that any derivative of quinine is a quinolone.

I don't want to take it, personally, for that reason.

I am sorry to hear that the Mepron and Malarone in your case have resulted in 15 years of Babesiosis.

Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LymeNotLymes
Member
Member # 45544

Icon 1 posted      Profile for LymeNotLymes         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Please stop misleading people, and stop misquoting me. I never said that Mepron resulted in 15 years of Babesiosis. Just stop it. I really don't understand why you have been able to continue on like this. I do know that you are upsetting many people.

And please post those papers on here so that we can all review them because that one link was not at all saying that Mepron is a quinolone.

--------------------
CDC positive for: Lyme & Babesia duncani
Clinical diagnosis of: Bartonella

Posts: 90 | From Rocky Mountains | Registered: Apr 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
me
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45475

Icon 1 posted      Profile for me     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As posted earlier, I take Mepron along with antibiotics, antibactericidals, and cryptolepis.

I am making progress. Slow, painful, a long way to go. My regimen in helping me. I forgot to put the prior sentence in my original post.

Have you discussed your concerns with your doctor and asked the pros and cons with regards to YOUR own case, concerns, etc.?

Best wishes.

Posts: 1431 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2015  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WPinVA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jordana:
[QB] Hi there:

Please refer to this paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Monique_Andersson2/publication/10797694_Development_of_the_quinolones/links/0deec5165701d85f23000000.pdf

Second paragraph:

"Quinolones were derived from quinine."

Mepron:

http://www.rxlist.com/mepron-drug.htm

"MEPRON (atovaquone) is a quinone antimicrobial drug for oral administration...."

----------------------------------
Thanks, I did. It appears that you are confusing quinines with quinones.

Mepron doesn't have anything to do with flouroquinolines. It's considered an anti-protozoal or anti-parasitic drug. It's used for malaria and babesia.

But the larger issue is that you are dismissing out of hand a very, very helpful class of drugs that are arguably many people's best hope of eradicating a very difficult to eradicate disease.

That's fine - that's your opinion - but you're doing so without any basis - you have zero personal experience with this and you're also presenting incorrect info as fact. I would hate for someone to see your post and not try mepron when it very well may be their best shot.

I wish you the best of luck as you embark on an herbal protocol for your own battle with babesia, and urge you to keep an open mind. You really do need to be open to all options to beat this disease.

Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WPinVA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Getting back to the original question which was malarone vs. mepron, I did have one additional thought:

Mepron can cause low mood, often referred to as the "Mepron blues." Does anyone know if malarone is less likely to cause the low mood side effect? If so, that could be a reason to choose malarone over mepron.

Just to be clear, this is NOT a reason to avoid Mepron, just something to look out for. In my case, I took Mepron for months. It was hard to take -- a lot of herxing. And it looks like yellow paint which is kind of yucky. But it was immensely helpful with the babesia.

After months of being on it, I had to go off when the Mepron blues kicked in. It was interesting that it took so long for that s/e to appear.

I never tried Malarone. I don't think it had come out yet so it wasn't a choice.

Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BuffyFan
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 34679

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BuffyFan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you everyone who responded to my questions

Keebler I never would have thought about my pillow so thanks for bringing that up.

Both mepron and malarone cost me $10. Because I have swallowing issues(even tiny pills can get stuck in my throat) I decided to go with mepron since i'ts a liquid. I am supposed to take for 2 weeks then follow with artemisia or cryptolepis. I did read that Buhner does not recommend artemisisa anymore.

Oh and neem is on the list of herbals to take that my doc gave me. Anyone here take that too?

Stephen recommends sida acuta, cryptolepis and something else I don't remember the name. So does this sound ok, then? try the mepron then after those 2 weeks follow with an herbal?

WPinVA I am worried about what you call Mepron Blues. so since will be taking it for 2 weeks(for right now, but that could always change if my doc wants me to continue) a nyway, could you tell me what it felt like(so I know what to watch out for)
Can you also describe what the herxing was like for you? I know everyone is different. Thanks!!

Posts: 287 | From somewhere | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BuffyFan
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 34679

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BuffyFan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One more question, did you take mepron with a high fat meal?
Posts: 287 | From somewhere | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WPinVA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, don't be deterred by the Mepron Blues! All these meds can have side effects and it's just good to know what to watch out for. You may never get it.

The Mepron Blues felt like the onset of a clinical depression. Low mood that I just couldn't snap out of. By day 3 or 4, I realized that it might be the Mepron and went off of it. Within a day or two, the fog lifted.

I seem to recall taking it with a spoonful of peanut butter, not necessarily a whole fatty meal, but (blame the Lyme!) I just don't have a clear recall.

I remember feeling really yucky, fluish, heavy fatigue all the time when on Mepron. That was back in the very early Lyme starge when I pretty much felt horrible all the time anyways, but I do think part of that was a herx. My LLMD had me pulse the Mepron and other abx, and after a few rounds of this, I remember feeling better during the off weeks. That gave me a lot of hope. : )

Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

© 1993-2019 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to the Terms and Conditions.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


Home | Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Webmaster