posted
Great article, thanks for sharing Brussels!
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Brussels
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You're welcome, Jory.
What is nice in this article is that it points out where we should be aiming.
dr.Rawl got more articles in the same website.
He did Buhner and other herbs, to heal from lyme. He's a guy who's also still being bitten by ticks.
he's got tick bites his whole life as an outdoors type of person.
He was an obstetrician, but had to stop working as one due to lyme.
He opened a smaller private practice, and then could manage to treat lyme, while working.
He totally healed.
He said that we only need big guns for the more virulent type of infections, such as Ehrlichia, for example.
Less virulent type of infections, such as bart, mycoplasma, which are also stealthy, do not respond well to aggressive treatment because they are stealth.
It means, they have already long established relations with our immune system, they know how to evade it, they are not very dangerous if alone so the immune system does not really recognize them as dangerous...
And they can hide very well, inside deep tissue... as they have done that for thousands of years..
these stealth pathogens respond poorly to aggressive drug treatments. Even Rife, he's not that convinced.
That is why strengthening the immune system and rebuilding the body's strengths is the ONLY way out, specially if you're an outdoor type of person.
So here it goes: dr. Rawl is still being bitten by ticks, but no longer ill with lyme.
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ukcarry
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I agree with many of these conclusions. My biomagnetic pair therapist has said more than once that borrelia holds the door open for other pathogens to enter.......
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Dr. K. said many years ago that Borrelia is the master mind of other infections: that is why it is usually the last to be defeated, in lyme.
Take off Bb, the coinfections lose their General.
I think it steers the body to a chronic condition, then allowing more and more infections to colonize us.
Another interesting thing dr. Rawl keeps saying, is that there are not GREAT NUMBERS of Borrelia and stealth pathogens in the body.
It is not THE NUMBERS that cause symptoms, because they have no interest to kill the host! They are not like cold viruses or Ebola: they DO reproduce fast, like wild fire.
In case of stealth infections, it's the immune reactions of the host that cause symptoms and make us feel miserable.
And also, the COMBINED infections that make us miserable, not individually STRONG infections.
Buhner says too, that stealth microbes do not reproduce fast and have no interest in killing the host. They are MASTERS in causing our bodies to get inflammation.
That is their gun to get their food: inflammation destroys tissue, breaking up tissues and giving plenty of food for Bb. Quite smart.
so the crazy therapy of KILLING like hell does not work well! Lowering inflammation can bring more results than strong antimicrobials.
That is why herbs are much smarter than drugs, at least, to deal with Bb and all these stealth infections.
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TF
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The lyme doc who cured me created an anti-inflammation diet for his patients. He included this in the book he wrote about lyme--"The Lyme Disease Solution."
Too much inflammation causes lots of pain and lots of brain symptoms.
Now, I understand that he has written a book about curing cancer naturally.
When a friend of mine was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis (her hands swelled up like balloons and pain was off the charts), I took her to a doc who put her on anti-inflammatory supplements, then tested her for food allergies and told her which foods to eliminate. Voila! "Rheumatoid arthritis" was gone.
posted
IMHO I think the Dr. goes off track in several areas. The best evidence suggests that current strains of Borellia are a recent development, dating back to perhaps WW2 bio-warfare labs in Nazi Germany and Japan. Read about Plum island, Japanese expertise regarding weaponized spirochetes, bio weapon labs in the Black Forest of Germany during WW2, all this info is public and easily available. Whatever was found in the ancient human remains the Dr. refers to - we don't really know what was found - and using that supposed find as the basis for the assumption that lyme disease has been in it's present form for thousands or millions of years is dubious at best.
The Dr. gives pretty random rankings regarding virulence, placing lyme disease much lower than evidence suggests it should be placed. Diet and lifestyle changes alone haven't been shown to be effective in placing lyme and co-infections in remission, and placing priority solely on those factors, with only a nod towards herbs and other strategies is very unlikely to be a sufficient strategy for getting well.
The Dr. doesn't present sufficient or really any evidence that lyme alone or any of a number of co-infections alone, are relatively benign...given the lack of decent and definitive tests for all the existing lyme strains and co-infections, the Dr's claims regarding the interactions and the relative virulence of these infections, whether alone or in some combination, is, as presented, without any convincing evidence. While it does seem a fair assumption that the less infections the better, given that it is virtually impossible to know with certainty what infections any given patient has, drawing definitive conclusions about the virulence of any given infection alone, can't rise above speculation. In short, the Dr's key point, the supposed "low virulence" of lyme and some co-infections, is presented without one iota of evidence, and is at variance with the experience of anyone who has had lyme and or it's typical co-infections.
The Dr., for no apparent reason, and with no supporting evidence, and contrary to many many lyme patients well documented experiences, grossly downplays the symptoms and effects of lyme disease, he also, contrary to the best evidence, appears to mis-construe what chronic lyme disease is. He, again without any supporting evidence, makes assumptions about the number or volume of actual spirochetes typically in the body of a lyme patient, assuming the number to be low, whatever low is, making the, again unsupported assumption, that this supposedly low number of spirochetes supports the claim that lyme symptoms are an autoimmune response only - there supposedly aren't enough spirochetes in the body to cause symptoms, or so the Dr. implies.
It would be nice if the Dr's main points in his article were accurate, unfortunately, that just doesn't appear to be the case.
TF
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posted
ctone, thank you very much for this analysis. It is a big help to me. I had lyme, babesiosis, and bartonella.
High-dose combinations of antibiotics (Burrascano protocol) did the trick for me and it didn't take long at all. In eight months I became symptom free. Then, because of winter, I continued my treatment to 13 months.
That was 12 years ago and I am still symptom free, Praise God!
I believe that there are some VERY virulent strains of these diseases. An example is the ALS presentation of lyme. And, lyme compromises the immune system like AIDS. They believe babesiosis can do this also. So, to me, any disease that can do that is SERIOUS. It means that you will then go on to collect more and more diseases and your past viruses, etc. will just reactivate.
No immune system is a serious consequence of a disease!
Lyme gave a friend of mine a heart attack. Cardiologists were mystified as they could not find any reason for this heart attack. She had had lyme for many, many years undiagnosed when this happened.
I lived in a moldy environment for 3 years. I am allergic to mold (didn't know it at the time) so I was continually visiting an ENT during those years. Then I left that environment and shortly afterward contracted lyme. This story isn't unique to me.
So, it may be that with a strong immune system a person can fight off lyme. But, I was unable to because of the mold bringing me down.
A friend of mine has been treated for thyroid cancer. Now, his wife tells me he has lyme. No surprise, right?
So, even without being exposed to a virulent strain of lyme, if your immune system is not in top notch shape when you encounter lyme, you can begin a life of horror.
Lyme stole at least 5 years of my life. Totally lost years as I searched for a diagnosis.
And, any woman with lyme who gives birth to a baby with lyme will attest to the seriousness of this disease.
Chances are there is no one reason why some folks get lyme and others never get it in spite of numerous exposures. Too bad our medical system does not see fit to research this for us.
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TF, thanks for the link on the anti inflammatory diet!
So the guy managed, in the end to change his diet plan!
I keep forgetting that many people with chronic inflammation and chronic diseases such as lyme, cancer still eat bad...
I've been on 'clean' diet, as much as I can, for so many years now... Diet IS vital.
I wonder how people still survive on such diets. I would be long dead, I think.
dr. K and his followers test all foods in the first session. The moment they find some allergenic or whatever foods that you are intolerant, they recommend to get away with it.
A lot of our inflammation, they believe, comes from those allergic reactions that have nothing to do with infections. But the more inflammation the body has, the more difficult to get rid of any infection.
Just see pollen allergy, mold, as you said. Both weaken the respiratory tract, and then we 'catch' colds more easily.
Clean the mold, or deal with the pollen allergy, and the immune system deals with the cold MUCH better.
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ctone,
the article I posted is not a medical article published in a medical journal.
It's more a magazine-type of article! The type of 'what-should-I-do-to-get-better'.
However, Dr. Rawl's view is not very different from that of Stephen Buhner, who did loads of research.
He isn't an MD, but all LLMDs I know respect Buhner.
War-fared Bb started by E. Traub, the Nazi Army chief or research, you are right.
However, here in the Black Forest, Bb is even older than your American lyme disease!
We got Traub's version of Bb before you Americans got his version of Bb years later in Long Island!
Maybe you got a better version, more sophisticated, with more DNA than us here, right..
In both areas, the US and here in Europe, these 2 ways to attack Borreliosis exist (with variations in between):
- the aggressive way, finding the silver-bullet as Buhner says;
- the holistic way, supporting the body's immunity, treating the terrain, diet, inflammation , etc
The Nazis sprayed Traub's version of Bb in Russia, thinking they would win the war.
Wrong. Bb reproduces too slow to cause disease, for war purposes, I mean. They love to cause chronic illnesses, not much acute-going-viral like Ebola.
So the Russians won, anyway...
That is what Rawl talks about: Bb, weaponized or not, spreads slowly. That is what he means by 'low virulence' and 'being stealth'.
Dr. R.H (NY) and Buhner agree: it's not the NUMBERS that cause symptoms, but the inflammation that does.
More inflammation does not necessarily mean more NUMBERS of pathogens, but more like an excessive reaction from the immune system against pathogens.
It means an overburdened immune system or weaker immune system.
Dr. K. who treats people in both continents, and he still uses 'support' and holistic approaches (parallel to some antimicrobials.
Dr. Rau from Paracelsus here in Switzerland also treat loads of Americans, who do not get well after bombarding themselves with the big guns.
He also thinks supporting the immune system is the only way out of both YOUR weaponized Bb, or our weaponized Bb (Europe).
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The Lyme-group of infections presents unique difficulties to most Western approaches, whether community herbalism, reductive phytorationalism, or technological medicine.
The organisms are especially good at sequestering themselves inside host cells to avoid immune responses.
The STEALTH NATURE of the organisms and the complexity of their infectious cycle necessitates a very DIFFERENT approach than is usually common in the Western tradition.
The paradigm of a silver bullet, i.e. antibacterials, SPECIFIC to the INVADING organisms has proven INADEQUATE.
The organisms are exceptionally good at generating a swarm of genetic varients in short time lines, creating subtypes that are unaffected by antibiotics.
----------------------------- Buhner suggests as treatment:
-------------------------
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As you can see, no matter for which kind of lyme disease (weaponized or not), his protocol uses very few antimicrobials.
Buhner knows, as dr. K knows, about old Enderlein's studies of pleomorphism in the 30s.
It's not only Bb that makes several genetic parts to hide itself. It's NOT because it's weaponized that it does that.
On the contrary, most microorganisms do that in order to survive, as part of their life cycles and hiding mechanisms.
Buhner's words, from the same link above: -------------------------
ALL Lyme-group organisms are undergoing rapid GENETIC ALTERATIONS (... and) are tremendously genetically FLEXIBLE and they exist within their hosts as a mosaic of GENETIC VARIANTS.
(Brussels: exactly what Enderlain was saying 90 years ago, and other researchers more than 100 years ago!)
It is more accurate to think of them as a self-organized SWARM, NOT as INDIVIDUAL microbial organisms.
This provides multiple advantages: it maximizes survival of the swarm when attacked by host immune responses and allows discrete elements of the swarm entry into different physiological niches, e.g. bone marrow or lymph system, again maximizing survival.
It is not uncommon that SEVERAL VARIANTS can be found within those niches, the several strains EXCHANGING GENETIC material in order to stay ahead of the immune response.
The outer membrane proteins on the exterior of the cell wall are often altered (as are many of the adhesion molecules they use to attach to host cells) which MAKES the VARIANTS HARDER to recognize by both the immune system and pharmaceuticals.
Simple rearrangements of certain portions of the genome can create as many as 420,000 VARIANTS of A SPECIES of bacteria in a SHORT PERIOD of time. -------------------------------------
Note that Buhner is talking NOT OF Bb, but of COINFECTIONS!
In short, don't concentrate much on one critter, i.e. Bb.
That is what dr. Rawl, Buhner, Dr. K, dr. H and dr. Rau are talking: weaponized or not, all bacteria are INTELLIGENT beings, and if they are STEALTH, they know very well how to hide, divide themselves, create a SWARM of thousands of variants so that pharmaceuticals have little chance.
Buhner concludes: -------------------------------- Improving the immune status of those infected allows the immune system, refined over long evolutionary time, to do what it does best, i.e. use very elegant mechanisms to control and clear infection.
-----------------------
See? The magazine article of Dr. Rawl is still good, in my opinion! Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Agree with much of what you say, and thanks for taking the time to respond so thoroughly, but the Dr's article, stands or falls on it's own merits, and given the seriousness of the subject, and the fact that he's addressing severely ill people, and also the fact that apparently, as someone on a different forum pointed out, he's peddling his own expensive program based on his theories, he should be held accountable for what are imho gross inaccuracies, flaws in logic, and a lot of unsupported theories. Treating lyme does not have to be an either/or proposition, it doesn't have to be either an aggressive search and destroy mission or a support the immune system and nurture approach, it certainly can and arguably should be in many or most cases both. In my own case, I do both, neither separate approach proving to be adequate on it's own, though, observing other's successful treatment, it appears that of the two, aggressive treatment may in many cases have an edge, certainly in younger people, but there is no good reason to not do both in most cases, and as should be obvious, the healthier the diet the better.
The Dr's use of the descriptor "low virulence" upon which his main thesis rests, is really baffling, there is nothing ambiguous about the term, and that term does not describe the effects of lyme or any of it's co-infections whether in hypothetical isolation - which is the only "isolation" that exists for lyme and co-infections at the moment - or in conjunction with co-infections. Describing lyme as slow replicating and having a slow onset of symptoms is not really accurate nor does it necessarily have anything to do with it's virulence. Lyme symptoms can emerge fast or slow and at varying degrees of severity, as has been shown repeatedly. Slow replicating is relative, and it's relationship to severity of symptoms or the rapidity of the emergence of symptoms is not established at all. There are many diseases which have a slow development, Parkinson's, MS, some Cancers, Schizophrenia, Syphilis etc... which no one in their right mind would describe as "low virulence", and neither should lyme or it's co-infections be described as "low virulence".
Concerning Steve Bohner, I don't know much about his theories and whether they align with the Dr's, but whether they do or don't does nothing to help the obvious flaws in what the Dr. has presented.
I'm aware of Pasteur's famous supposed death bed "it's all in the terrain" quote, a quote whose message, assuming it's accurately conveyed, has not held up over time. Antibiotics have certainly proven their clinical worth, and the relatively few persons who can fight off infections at will due to some extraordinary internal terrain are so rare that their existence doesn't do much to weigh in on the side of Pasture's supposed absolutist death bed declaration. Once again, one can aggressively treat while addressing the "terrain", there are multiple options available, it's not always an either/or proposition.....well, hmmm, unless one is an insurance company executive or stock holder and wants to avoid huge payouts for long-term antibiotic or other expensive but "aggressive" lyme protocols, like IV o-zone, hyperbaric chambers, IV light therapy etc. It should be noted that this insurance industry desire to avoid paying for lyme and co. "aggressive" (or is it really "expensive"?) treatments, so-called conventional or otherwise, is really a somewhat obscured but certainly present subtext in these type of discussions concerning the nature and treatment of lyme disease.
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Rumigirl
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Thank you, ctone, my sentiments exactly!! To think that diet and lifestyle changes alone, or with herbs, is sufficient for everyone, or even most, with TBD's is irresponsible and completely inaccurate!!
I have been, and still am, on the brink of losing my life to this blasted disease complex. I have been doing intensive diet and lifestyle changes for my whole life, esp adult life, both personally and as a practitioner. No way is that sufficient. Plus, I did intensive rifing, herbs, PEMF, ozone, etc. for years, along with tons of detox, and
only got horribly worse, including severe documented brain and nervous system damage. When I finally started abx, I got the first improvements.
When you've had this undiagnosed for your whole life with uncountable known tick bites, with tons of co-infections, and tons of documented damage already, sorry, but his method is wholly inadequate. I only wish it were so easy.
To add insult to injury, I got my tick bites about 1 1/2 miles from Plum Island, where the biowarfare research went on (unbeknownst to all of us).
Plenty of people have died of this already. There is no way that it is as easy as he makes out for most people.
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posted
I do find his articles interesting but the fact that he is peddling overpriced mixtures of supplements takes away credibility.
Lyme and its treatment is very individual. If you want to treat with herbs, or pharmaceuticals for that matter, the way to do it is by adding one at a time so you can understand how they affect you. There will never be a prepackaged mix of anything that works for all or even most of us.
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Ctone,
you're probably right that Rawl does not know much about VERY ill people.
But dr. Rau does! As dr. K. (seattle).
Their approaches are still similar!
Rawl seems to fall in the category of people with more robust immune systems (not my case...).
So Buhner protocol, plus whatever he did, solved HIS lyme problem.
Buhner said his protocol helps about 75% of people, but about 10% find little or no help.
Getting the big guns can help some infections, but surely, when you study a bit about pleomorphism, these pathogens are way ahead our drugs.
420,000 variants of a SINGLE species, created in very fast time, is not something our drugs can address, unfortunately.
Surely it would be a magic thing, if any drug could cure us all from all these chronic infections
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Buhner is maybe the most important reference for any lyme treatment today.
All LLMDs that are really interested in healing lyme patients refer to his work.
Dr. H (New york) too!!
There is no magic bullet for anyone. Buhner says that too.
If you guys don't think diet is curative, well, think the opposite: eat only processed food and see if you get off lyme.
Cleaner diet is another part of the treatment that is becoming 'common sense' to most practitioners dealing with very chronic lyme.
dr. H. says something like:
"picture a lyme patient with 10 nails in his foot. Take off just a couple of them, he will still be ill. Unfortunately, you got to take all 10 nails OFF for the lyme patient to feel better. That is lyme treatment!"
Well, one of the nails is DIET. Diet is the fuel for your cells and immune system. Anti inflammatory diets will deal with that 'nail'.
Antimicrobials are another nail. Take drugs, herbs, whatever you do (rife...), you deal with another nail. But that nail ALONE will not solve bad cases of lyme, unfortunately.
------------------------------ This sentence of Buhner that keeps turning in my mind these days:
Something like: 'It's a blessing that bacteria become resistant to antibiotics, otherwise we would be all dead.'
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As for virulence, you are also right. The word is maybe not good anymore.
I checked in a medical dictionary, virulence does not have to do with growing slow, but about causing severe symptoms.
Yep, in the past, for thousands of years, Bb was low virulence.
It started being high virulent (= causing severe illness) after the 70s or so...
Some people's immune systems arrive to keep Bb under control PRETTY WELL. I see them every day, in the village I live. Bitten by ticks, for years, never falling ill.
The question is: why dr. Rawl today is bitten and does not fall ill? Why all these guys are constantly bitten and do not fall ill?
Why seropositive people (in my rural area, it seems the MAJORITY of people are Westerblot positive)do not develop lyme, live their lives up to 90 (here in Switzerland, people still live long...),
while others (like myself, my daughter) fall extremely ill? We could have died. Both of us, I swear. We weren't far from that.
Dr. K says: symptoms are proportional to the toxic load of the patient.
Buhner says: the worse the immune system of a person, the worse the symptoms.
But most lyme doctors and researchers today agree: more symptoms do not mean an extreme high number of pathogens (in case of Bb).
More symptoms mean more immune reactions, the so called cytokine cascade reactions!
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