posted
I just about ALWAYS have liver pain when I take anything.
But on Zhang's HH-2 capsules for bartonella, the pain is excrutiating. I'm guessing that these capsules aren't as hard on me as rifampin, but the pain is worse than rifampin. This leads me to believe it is a liver herx perhaps? Any experiences?
Posts: 123 | From Tahoe | Registered: Oct 2016
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Brussels
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posted
For sure, I have liver pain with candida herxes or most herxes.
I guess, for the ones whose liver is at the edge, any extra toxin will charge the liver.
I may also have kidney pain, sometimes.
but definitively, first comes the liver
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- So sorry to hear of your continued experience & pattern in this regard. With pain, it's taken a while to be firm about what is and is not acceptable with any treatment plan.
I've come to this: more pain is not acceptable. Not at all. Ever. I'm against pain so I can be emphatic about not accepting it -- slow down or even just:
Stop. Whatever causes so much more pain. Stop. Back up. Adjust. HH-2 is stronger. The regular strength might be best for you at this point.
I think it is best to totally stop for a couple weeks anything you suspect. It might not be right for your body. There are always other options that have similar properties but might work better for you.
This is not race. Stronger may not be better.
More pain is NOT going to help. It's a sign that something needs to change with the approach -- or you may require additional diagnostics like a liver evaluation.
Liver pain - even if one might think it's due to a herxheimer reaction is no fancy badge of honor anymore than a strong herx in whatever other ways one might measure is. A strong herx -- or any strong reaction at all is a sign something has gone too far.
Liver pain is a serious message. Slow down / change course / check your full support measures.
Talk to your LLMD or LL ND, if you have one -- and, if not (as I know cost can be out of reach), read all you can by the LL doctor authors on the topic.
Do not continue something at the dose, rate, etc. that causes the amount of pain you describe.
And, whether you have a LL doctor or not " Excruciating pain" means that a medical consult is important - perhaps to your very life.
Please do not accept this just has to be. There are so many ways to adjust. Still, it could be that there is something going on that needs medical attention.
"Excruciating pain" is not acceptable.
Also consider if you take any pharmaceutical Rx. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- A "herx" is never something to accept and suffer through - it's a sign that something is out of whack with method &/or control & support measures are not yet adequate.
A herx can be dangerous and is best managed to be minimal.
posted
Keebler -- I can't stop HH because it is keeping me alive at the moment despIte the liver pain....
Posts: 123 | From Tahoe | Registered: Oct 2016
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Keebler
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- If you are sure this [whether this or the dose] is causing you MORE pain, something must change.
While that can be unsettling when we have settled upon some kind of formula that may hold promise but then something goes wrong . . . I firmly believe that there is a way through this. There has to be an answer but it's not to continue something that hurts.
You say this causes you "excruciating pain" - that can lead to dire circumstances. There are always other ways that do not demand "excruciating pain" as the price.
And such pain could be unconnected. Still, if anything seems to make it worse, it just makes sense to stop that. Find a proper replacement for there are many from which to choose.
"Excruciating pain" is not a sign of improvement. It is a sign, though, that something could just pop, so to speak, in the most unfortunate manner.
And it could be fatal, too, were porphryia (or some other liver dysfunction / condition) to be part of the equation.
To push the liver beyond what is comfortable can push it to the point of no return.
Includes detail about: HPU / KPU . . . . Some links here are expired yet you can find the detail by searching with article titles / authors. -
[ 10-15-2017, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- By the way, Dr. Z is a liver expert. That was his field before he came to learn about and excel regarding lyme & other tick borne / chronic stealth infections.
I hope you will be able to schedule a consult with him ASAP.
It's important that he know if you are using any of his items in stronger doses, separate or in ways other than outlined by his protocol (as it sounds in another thread of yours).
- Houttuynia c. is detailed in this book, as part of a protocol:
Separate from that, would be to read what Stephen Buhner (a very much LL master herbalist) has written about Houttuynia and Bartonella.
His books are excellent.
Both Buhner and Dr. Z's approach to combining herbs - and knowing how to adjust - is vital so that the combination is stronger than any single particular herb might be on its own. -
[ 10-15-2017, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Just curious, are you the same Bryan Rosner who has written the book about Lyme & Rife machines?
If so, or if not - and you have a rife machine, have you done the 10K frequency to help with pain relief in the liver region?
Does turmeric help? The stronger curcumin might be too strong in light of its stronger effect on the gallbladder, though. But turmeric might be good to help reduce inflammation / pain. -
[ 10-15-2017, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Brussels
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posted
Bryan, I've done so many things for my liver...
The fastest pain relief I think is a product called Liver-Spleen-Pancreas from Vital Force Tech: just a few drops directly on the tongue, I feel the pain simply going away.
This is one of the things that last long (long effect). --------------
Or you can use your plasma rife with some liver frequencies? I use my violet ray, with some success there, as it helps moving the liquids.
(you got a middle term effect there, it lasts a couple of hours or so).
-------------------- Tapping under the arm is a potent point too, that helps a bit with pain (under the arm, height of nipples). It's the G-bladder meridian.
---------------------- Dr. K also teaches the liver compression massage: you got to get someone to do that (even though I do that by myself sometimes... not too easy though alone)
You can press that with fingers or back of a pen (not the tip, of course) or simply step on a round river stone.
Take at least 2 full cups of water because some toxins will get flushed.
The more painful the liver reflex point (right foot only), the more the liver is charged.
---------------------- And the best is taking binders... until anxiety is gone. It won't though relieve the liver completely, but it takes off some of the stress.
but as I said: the fastest and easiest: take the LSP drops above. It's a product with an amazing combination of liver herbs, only in blueprint, but I swear it works like nothing else for me.
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