I've been on abx (doxy 100 mg 2x daily first two weeks then doubled it and added azithromycin, flagyl to it for the other 7) for the past 9 weeks after finding an engorged tick. Off and on joint pain has been my main symptom so far along with general flu-ish feeling. Well, I took 5 drops of stevia Sat morning and had horrific joint pain all day. My neck has also been cracking since then but now have neck stiffness and an inflamed feeling in back of the neck going up to skull. Yesterday I had a huge pressure headache along with the neck cracks. This morning I woke up and neck felt stiff and inflamed, esp right below the back of skull. Never had any neck issues before and am wondering if the stevia could have triggered it?
Does this sound like a herx or something else? Can a herx be a new symptom you've never had before?
Feeling horrid. Been taking lots of burbur-pinella along with turmeric and vitamin c and had to pop an ibuprofen.
Thank you!
[ 01-17-2018, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: kskiska ]
Posts: 20 | From East of the Sun and West of the Moon | Registered: Jun 2014
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- " 5 drops of stevia Sat morning " I assume you took no more? Best not to until this settles down.
Check the bottle to be sure of authenticity. Be sure it is gluten-free, too. And msg free, too. If it contains "natural flavors" that could be a problem. Would be for my body, anyway. "natural flavors" can be msg and clobber in various ways. MSG has many different names.
Talk with your LLMD about this. With the head pain you describe. your doctor should be consulted by phone.
I've taken much more stevia for much longer and never had any reaction to it. I use it in my tea, however, and do not expect it to have any effect / or much effect regarding lyme.
There are various thoughts on stevia, of course, and those of Buhner on this subject resonate with my thoughts.
Also consider what else in the stevia?
And, although I don't give stevia much credit for effects with lyme, others have asked the same questions, still always amid many variables.
It's best to always start with one drop, one pill, of anything at first. Some people can have sensitivities that may have nothing to do with lyme die off, too.
You might look to all the variables, though in case you had moved something you forgot and maybe strained your neck, etc. Sometimes, even a sneeze can contort a body.
You say you are taking "lots" of a formula with pinelia in it. Some things to know about that:
From my file notes:
From ``The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook'' (Tillotson, et.al.)
WHAT IT DOES: Pinellia tuber is pungent in taste and warming in action. It dries up and dissolves mucus in the lungs, stomach and intestines, and stops nausea and vomiting.
. . . In animal experiments, taste stimulation by pinellia tuber caused suppression of gastric vagus nerve activity, while stimulation with ginger root caused an increase in nerve activity. . . .
RATING: Yellow, due to limitations in use and potential minor toxicity.
SAFETY ISSUES: Pinellia must be processed prior to use, to remove toxic elements (Li et al., 1991, reported in Yeung, 1983). The traditional method is to cook it with ginger, vinegar and/or alum.
Do not use during pregnancy.
Do not use long term.
Do not use with bleeding disorders.
Use only under the guidance of a trained professional.
. . . The situation for Chinese herbalists is complicated by the fact that the report of ephedrine in pinellia has been from tests with the source material Pinellia ternata (referred to as "northern banxia," pictured upper left) while most of the pinellia used in China and in the West is actually from a related plant that has the same uses: Typhonium flagelliforme (referred to as "southern banxia," pictured lower right), which has no ephedrine.
PINELLIA, ARISAEMA, ACORUS, and TYPHONIUM - by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.
Excerpts:
Pinellia, arisaema, acorus, and typhonium are Chinese herbs that all come from the Araceae family; they are the only members of this family that are used extensively in the Chinese medical system. . . . The underground portions (a corm-like rhizome) of each of the herbs are the parts used in medicine.
. . .
PINELLIA
Pinellia refers to the tuber of Pinellia ternata (see Figure 1), known to the Chinese as banxia. However, several species of Arisaema (including A. yunnanense, A. bathycoleum, A. saxatile, and A. prazeri) are used as substitutes, illustrating the close relationship between these two genera of the Araceae (1). Even one variety of typhonium, Typhonium flagelliforme, is used as banxia in China.
The raw material is somewhat toxic . . . . For internal medicine, processed pinellia is almost always used in modern practice.
. . . Consuming fresh ginger is a remedy for poisoning due to accidental ingestion of raw pinellia (8). In the following discussion of pinellia, only the processed herb is considered.
. . . Pinellia is one of the primary herbs for treating a phlegm-damp syndrome, which is represented by copious amounts of thick sputum or accumulations in the body of thick fluid. This key herb is most commonly combined with . . . .
. . . Pinellia also has the reputation of lowering adversely rising stomach qi (counterflow of qi). . . .
. . . The chemical composition of pinellia is not well established, with small amounts of alkaloids being identified, including traces of ephedrine. . . .
. . . the herb is always used in complex formulas. . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Stevia’s antibacterial actions against lyme disease?
Stephen’s response:
Jun 21, 2017
Excerpts:
1) The study is in vitro and hence has nothing to do with how the herb will actually work in a living body. It is not possible to extrapolate from a single in vitro study UNLESS there is corresponding data from centuries of historical use, etc (e.g. clinical use and so on).
2) Stevia is not a very systemic herb. To work in a live body against infection, especially with Borrelia, an herb has to be VERY systemic, that is it has to spread widely in the body, especially in hard-to-reach places. Stevia does not.
3) We have over a decade of clinical experience with stevia in the treatment of lyme disease; we suggest it as a supportive herb for a number of problems (blood glucose, etc). We have not seen ANY antimicrobial effects in clinical practice. NONE. However, the herb, because of effects on the GI tract, does help increase the bioavailability of herbs and pharmaceuticals (as does licorice, for example), as such it can help make antibacterials more effective.
4) The herb is also touted as helping break up biofilms. NOTE: Most herbs contain substances that help break up biofilms; plants figured out how to do that millions of years ago. . . . [much more at link above] -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Q: Can a herx be a new symptom you've never had before?
Yes. Yet after dealing with all this several years, most people won't have something totally from left field.
Weather changes can wreck a body / spine / neck, though. With the kinds of severe weather changes in your part of the country in the past week, that might also bring in another variable.
Wind pressure / barometric pressure / temperature shifts -
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Sorry you got this nasty reaction! But, I get that too, so this information might help?
In fact, I just figured out today (after at least three long months), coincidence, that the little kids sized fruit cup I've been eating in the morning has Stevia in it.
I bought the fruit cups thinking it is fruit, no preservatives, no colors, etc, so all should be well.
Well, it wasn't well.
Stevia- and I tried it three different times in the drop form last year, each time with the same bad reaction- gives me a nasty all over my head and upper neck, pressure headache like you describe. Some days it is really rough too.
The reason I FINALLY noticed it- made the Stevia/herx/headache connection was because I broke out in a Lyme/herx rash yesterday and I'm not on anything for Lyme (that I knew about anyhow.)
The nasty reaction had me thinking I was possibly herxing too (just like you), and I was! Just never thought about the fruit cup's possible stevia ingredient.
When I herx my eyes also hurt and they've ben giving me fits for no apparent reason, so I was concerned there was something else going on. Till now.
And I noted that aside from my head really hurting and my neck going nuts, nothing I take relives it at all (like ibuprofen, herbs, oils, etc.), and the headaches last even after the stevia is stopped for at least a week. Then it clears up.
Just thought you may want to know that last part especially and maybe it won't take you as long as dim wit here who had to keep trying Stevia over and over and suffering with daily headaches before she caught on!
Good luck with the other treatment! Feel better soon!
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
BTW- Not even asking around about it.... I've heard from at least two other people with this same reaction. Don't know why it happens, but it does.
It's slightly better today but still rough going. Brain fog, head pressure, stiff neck, headache. And yes, I also tried everything - oils, ibuprofen, turmeric, you name it - nothing helps! It's horrid.
It was so bad I msged my LLMD. She replied 'no more stevia' and suggested all the things I was already doing. To no avail.
Thank you for the info and for letting me know this might take awhile to subside. Ugh. I never would have guessed stevia would cause this bad a reaction.
Which makes me wonder ... if I'm on abx the past 2+ mos and caught it immediately, why am I reacting this strongly to stevia?
Posts: 20 | From East of the Sun and West of the Moon | Registered: Jun 2014
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posted
It's possible you are having a bad reaction to the stevia. Usually an immediate reaction like that means you are having a reaction to the med. and not a herx.
My experience with stevia is consistent with Buhners statements. It had no effect on Lyme whatsoever.
Posts: 184 | From CT | Registered: Aug 2006
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Badtick - You raise a good point about getting a bad immediate reaction but that's not the case, at least for me.
It typically takes a few hours before the effects kick in.
Also, dowsing with biotensor/pendulum always indicates good.
The only people I hear of having strong reactions to stevia are those with tick-borne infections but don't understand why the majority don't have any reaction.
Posts: 4 | From Babylon 5 | Registered: Oct 2016
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