Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
posted
I have a friend who is going for the last chance hearing for Social Security Disability - there have been two turn-downs - in the middle of this week. There is no lawyer involved, though I have argued for that for years.
If you have gone through this process, do you have any good advice for what the hearing will be like and what to do and what not to do while there?
Can you take letters or articles etc. to present? Can you ask for another medical or psychological review?
Any good advice is really appreciated. Thanks, Ann
posted
Ann, I suggest you & your friend both go to this FREE site & sign up to be a member making the FILES & LINKS available to you. It's DISABILITIES INSURANCE ISSUES site now run by Sarah Shapiro, who rewrites every question! They don't have a message board like this one. Don't tangle w/Sarah; she is a very nasty, rude person.
Read the links there ... there are specific things about ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE hearings & that is what you are referring to above. Read it all thoroughly talking about the ALJ hearings.
Also your friend should OVERDO her activities the day prior so it shows in her actions the next day for the hearing.
Dress extremely casual; NO MAKEUP & EXTRA JEWELRY.
Since she is representing herself, I suggest taking a tape recorder and 2 tapes so she can tape her session of 60-90 minutes. They tape it, but I never received it in over 2.5 years!
Also, ask the judge for a copy of THEIR ALJ hearing tapes at the beginning of the session.
If your friend has trouble sitting, stand for awhile and then sit again.
I even took my heating pad & used it on hottest button.
This time I will take my 10 frozen ice packs for my pressure points of pain.
Also take pen/paper so she can try to write any notes about what the judge is questioning her about IF she can't remember at that time to come back later & comment on! ============================================
Judge spent 30+ minutes questioning me about this & that. If your friend needs to use the bathroom often, like I do; tell the judge upfront.
When I stated I needed to use toilet now; he refused me; my lawyer talked into letting him let me while the voc rehab man talked about what books he would use determining what if any jobs I could STILL do with my health issues.
My session was 90 minutes included 15 min. for voc rehab man to find jobs that he felt I could still do.
Judge will pose to hypothetical questions to her. One deals with the person prior to the hearing & other pertains to person they heard speak to them that day.
If voc rehab man says she can do certain work, make sure your friend has ALL her records with her & tabbed with the drs. reports stating she can NOT do any type of sustainable work & in DETAIL why she can't!
Ann, what type of letters or articles are you referring to? Does she have LYME & what other illnesses with DETAILED medical reports documenting me WHY she can no longer work using their:
sitting, standing, walking, bending, grasping, crawling, & 2 other things.
It's all explained in DISINISSUES; spend a lot of time there reading the things about the hearing, etc. You both will benefit greatly; I did.
I'll either be having my 2nd ALJudge hearing in April or the judge will be approving my 2nd step with the latest 125 pages of my 300+ medical reports/labs of my 2nd SSDI claim.
Betty Below is from an email disinissues sends the members:
======================================== This message is sent upon subscription, and again monthly. Please let the moderators know if any of the links have changed.
There are several links found by clicking on 'Links' on the website or by going directly to
These links are a compilation of several areas of interest which are commonly requested and mentioned. They reflect the collected wisdom of this group. Check them out - you just might find the information you were looking for!
Take a look at Files that are not specific to your situation, because they might be helpful anyway - what works for Social Security may work for LTD claims, what applies to CFS may apply to your medical condition.
You must register with Yahoo to use the website, but note:
Be careful NOT to permit your address to be put into the directory when you register. Put as little as possible into your public profile.
You do not need a Yahoo address to use the website. Your email address is what Yahoo calls your "alternate address."
Betty is giving good advice. Personally, I wouldn't have waited until this close to the ALJ hearing to put things together. Just so you know, the way the system is designed the first two denials are pretty much automagic. It's normal to have to appear in front of the ALJ at least once.
When I did my hearing, I contacted a protection and advocacy group to get help with representation and they supplied me with a law school grad who helped me out while he was waiting to take the Bar exam. He explained the system to me, found where I had a condition that meant automagic coverage...(yes...remember that the first application and appeal are automagically declined in most cases!) and he was able to get me covered by simply pointing that out to the ALJ. My session with the ALJ lasted less than 10 minutes.
You can search for P&A groups on Yahoo!...Here is a good link. Most states have a P&A group just like the one I used in Michigan, and they're usually more than willing to help.
What I do know is this. Most of us Lymies have arthritis. Arthritits can be something that SSDI will automagically cover, depending on what joint(s) it is in. As in they cover ankles and hips, but not knees. The term is weight bearing joint, but for some reason the knees aren't considered to be weight bearing joints. Anyway, go at it from an angle like that. It's highly unlikely you're going to sell an ALJ on a need for disablility based on a Lyme dx...however, the symptoms are another story.
Most of the time I think I've been lucky with my insurance coverage in that they've stepped up to the plate fully and made sure that I've received all of the treatment I need for all of the problems I've had with my Lyme. But...I think I see a reason. I've been dx with Lyme on several occasions, but I've never really had much treatment for it...just some abx here and there. Lately it's been Doxy 600mg/day for 4 mos and some benicar as well. Inusrance company has been fine with that.
However...I have also recieved treatment for my arthritis, my hypopituitarism...including GH therapy (what's funny is that I had a terrible time trying to find an endo that would even test for GH deficiency, with most telling me that ins. wouldn't pay for the test. For some reason I just couldn't get them to understand that it was my insurance company that was recommending that I be tested.), have been treated for Hashimoto's thyroiditis and hypothyroidism, etc. The point being that I don't push the Lyme dx. I just let the Drs. put in the code for the symptom and the insurance pays the bills. If I try to tell the insurance that everything is because of the lyme, it screws things up because the lyme dx. isn't listed as a cause for hypopituitarism...although most of us know that the damage that shows on the MRI is most probably due to some hungry spirochetes.
Anyway...I'm most likely rambling. Just trying to say that all any of us really needs is just one spot in our charts where Lyme is diagnosed. For the most part, once you have a Dr.(from B camp) that knows a little about Lyme, you can simply get treatment for the symptoms. And...antibiotics are often recommended for the symptoms we lymies have, where they are not always recommened for Lyme itself.
Posts: 67 | From Kansas City, MO | Registered: Sep 2004
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cootiegirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3216
posted
I was able to be declared disabled after my first appeal, and I do believe that it was due in part to having an attorney. I was also fortunate to have been given a judge that was attentive to this type of disability and really 'got it'. He also put more weight, with regard to his decision, on my llmd's report, as opposed to the SS doc's report.
The day of the hearing, my husband and mother accompanied me and sat in. They cannot speak during the hearing, but it felt good having them in there. The judge asked me several questions about my illness and my work prior to getting sick. Then the voc 'expert' made her suggestions. I'll never forget that she said that I had marketable skills for a desk job for answering a phone because I could hold a pen!!!! (I used to be a college professor)The judge asked her how she thought I would be able to hold down a job if I required regular intervals of rest, and she could not give him an honest answer.
I do feel that unless your friend is really highly organized (and what lymies have such skills at this point in their illness), she should hire legal assistance.
cootiegirl
[This message has been edited by cootiegirl (edited 27 March 2005).]
Posts: 1728 | From New York State | Registered: Oct 2002
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Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
posted
My computer keeps kicking me off, so I have to make this short. Thanks Betty, ShadowHawk and Cootiegirl! Those are great suggestions. I will print them out for my friend. His mom is going with him. She didn't know the hearing was scheduled until a day or so ago. She said he is allowed only one person with him. I couldn't go anyway as we are going out of town that day.
Special thanks to TonyZ - the Z-Man! - who called to give me lots more good info, too.
I would love to hear any other suggestions. Thanks again, Ann - OH
posted
I totally agree with all the excellent advise you have already recieved - if you could possibly get an intern or contact a legal clinic at a local law school, you would be much better off. Prepare yourself with every type of question possible -list all your disabiities and as a whole how they keep you disabled and from performing any type of work - ie. inablility to perform any job function for a period of time.
Posts: 78 | From connecticut | Registered: Jan 2005
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Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
posted
Thanks, Brodius Thanks so much to everyone else who responded to my appeal for my friend. His mom is going with him to the hearing tomorrow and was so grateful for your the good advice which I printed out for her.
She has a very bad cold and I hope will draw some sympathy for herself as well as for her son at the hearing.
I will be away for a few days and won't know how it all went until I get back. I will let you all know what the outcome was.
posted
Ann posted, "She has a very bad cold and I hope will draw some sympathy for herself as well as for her son at the hearing".
Ann, his Mom has nothing to do with HIS not being able to work. They normally do not let family to hear the hearing. That was the case for me. Lawyer also recommended NO relatives present.
ALjudge will decide in 1 - 3 months; they normally do NOT give you any indication if they will approve then.
Betty G.
Posts: 1 | From US | Registered: Aug 2015
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posted
betty g is right that family member's conditions will have nothing to do with the ALJ's decision.
However, family member testimony is some times used. And I have prepped family members before for questioning - and have felt depending on the case that their presence was good because it helped to show dependencey regarding issues like transportation or to have an eye witness account for someone who could not accurately describe his/her daily activities.
This is why any type of representation is very helpful - they can through experience make these decisions as they relate to the specific circumstances and individuals (also often they know the Judges and know their particular preferences).
Posts: 78 | From connecticut | Registered: Jan 2005
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Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
posted
My friend's mom will be there because they told him that he was allowed only one other person. Since he has no lawyer, his mom is the only one available.
Sorry everyone took my comment about his mom's cold evoking sympathy so seriously. That wasn't meant to be taken seriously as far as her son getting his disability appeal approved.
She also has Lyme disease and has been through hell for many years, so I will allow her any sympathy she can get.
She is a very bright lady and is well armed with lots of good documentation, doctor's letters, records and letters from family members etc. I have a lot of confidence in her. And I gave her all the recommendations of people here.
Thanks, Betty, for the heads-up on the timing of approval and notification. That is about the same as I learned.
I found a very good paper on SSDI which I will post on another message.
posted
I didn't take it seriously - I was just trying to make the point that family mbrs can sometimes be important in a hearing - I wish them good luck and my fingers are crossed!
Posts: 78 | From connecticut | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bettyg: they normally do NOT give you any indication if they will approve then.
They did at mine actually. I had hired allsup to help. (not sure how I feel about them still) It took 3 years to get to the actual hearing. But once I did, it was very anticlimatic. The judge asked me a few questions about how I felt. Also he asked me to explain the vacation I'd taken to London and how I'd managed doing that. And also if I'd seen the last Lord of the Rings, which I had and explained that it hurt a lot to sit that long and had to leave to the bathroom several times. And then told me that it looked like I obviously wanted to work and had a professional job, and that he was going to be awarding me disability. At the time I didn't actually know I had Lyme, Mine was based on chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, and chronic pain related to hernias. All pretty explainable in retrospect. Anyway my lawyer said just to keep in mind your worst days when you are answering and be honest. Of course now I'm back at work. Once you get disability they're actually very cool. There's a back to work program so if you want to try going back to work you don't have to give up your disability. Also if you have a reoccurance after returning to work within the next 3 years (I think) then the process is much easier.
Good luck!
Posts: 207 | From san francisco, ca | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I was one of the real lucky ones that got approved right out of the gate with the applications process. I made sure that I had every test that I could possibly have run run one me, and I had a bunch of incremental diagnosises.
I also spent time making sure that I addressed every reason why I could not perform job functions and I worked with my doctors to make sure that we were on the same page. I spent 8 months in doing it, a little each day, before I actually filed the paper work.
I also eplained how hard it was for me to actually take the time to put it together. It is such a fine line, because the very act of putting the application together could indicate that you are not disabled.
I was also very proactive in the process, I made sure that when requests for additional information were made that I called the person asking for the information directly, asking questions about what they were looking for. It allowed me to establish a a personal connection, which I felt in the end helped.
There was clear reasons for me to be on disability, I did not exagerate anything, but one thing I have learned about dealing with government agencies, you need to be proactive. In some ways, that is the best reason for getting yourself an attorney, but I also question how much incentive there is for the attorny to win approval on the first try.
It truly is a catch-22 situation.
Posts: 533 | From Las Vegas, NV | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Just to follow up on that - SSD law is a very bad area of law to be in if you want to make money. I think the fact that you won on the first try (and get clients subsequent to that) is a much stronger motivator than the amount of money you would make by not winning the first time.
But if you are still concerned - law school sponsored legal clinics or not for profit legal clinics usually cover this area of law. - and they are generally excellent - that is people people actually rallying for you.
I did this and made sure everyone working there understood what poorly defined chronic illness really is. Also, I never quite understood why people believe anyone in their right body and mind would want to pretend to be this way????
Sorry if I'm rambling...(not much sleep last night).
brodius
Posts: 78 | From connecticut | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bettyg: Ann, please update us on how this hearing went; we're all anxious to hear more.
Happy so many of you were approved & that they told you while you WERE there! Iowa they don't do that from others comments to me after their hearings.
Bettyg
Indeed do let us know how it went! You probably won't get an answer for a while. Even if you do you won't see any money for at least 3 months. Not to be a downer, but plan ahead. It comes as a little surprise when you get awarded then no money comes for months afterwards. Apparently standard, but they do give you money for the entire time they approve your claim for, so it's retroactive from your file date to your award date. (boy am I dreading what the taxes are going to be for that!) I was also told not to expect to hear an answer that day by my lawyer, so we were both very surprised when I got an answer (this was actually in montana). I did have medical records showing continuous illness from 1994-2001 (think of about 6 inches of medical records) and also it proved that I'd worked even though I was really quite ill at various points throughout my career. So I think that helped quite a lot.
Posts: 207 | From san francisco, ca | Registered: Mar 2005
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There really is a lot of good information here. In my case, I knew before I left the ALJ what the decision was, I think because it was a technicality and my condition was explicitly covered under the SSDI rules. I have, however, heard from several individuals that they had to wait several months following the hearing, and with many of them they did not win...even though I knew their conditions were keeping them from working.
Again, I totally concurr with the thought about why would anyone want to be on SSDI if they didn't need to be. It doesn't pay much...never really enough to get by, but enough to help...and it certainly isn't the easiest system in the world to work with. I agree that the back to work program is nice, and I have taken full advantage of it...unfortunately. I've tried several times to go back to work which only brought back all of my symptoms. Am hoping this next time it will be different. The difference is that this time I know that it's Lyme, where I was going for 14 years before not knowing what was wrong with me.
Fingers crossed for all with this terrible nightmare!
Posts: 67 | From Kansas City, MO | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
You aren't kidding BettyG, what the heck is up with Sarah Shapiro. She is MEAN.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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It depends on whether you apply for SSI (low income SS) or SSD (based on how many yrs you worked and your salary).
I know that SSI is pretty low but SSD can be much more if you have worked for many years. I have two friends who get about 2100 and the other gets 2800 a month since they worked 25 years.
There is an SS calculator on the SS website..also your yearly statement from SSA tells you what you would make if disabled.
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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