sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
I got back my second WB back from Labcorp. First one negative all the way. LD says 50% come back negative. Second one shows band IGM 41 positive and LLMD says this is very specific to Lyme Disease. I was already diagnosed clinically and have been in treatment for 3 months.
Any ideas from those with experience? Does this mean that maybe my immune system is finally starting to participate?
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
My first test was positive band 41 nothing else. Then after Doxy, I got band 23 and 41.
Then after Igenex test and 1 more round of Doxy and Amoxy, I have a lot more bands pop up. Even on the IgG side which I was surprised to see.
Do I feel better? Nooooooooo.
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Band 41 is specific for flagella.
It could be from other spirochetes, ie Syphilis, Leptospira.
It is usually one of the first bands to show in Lyme Disease.
IMO-Labcorp STINKS! I'm surprised you got a band 41. There's no telling how many might pop up from a specialized Lab. Even Quest (again MO) is better than Labcorp & they're not very good either.
I would say that if you have a known tick-bite, are symptomatic, and the rule-outs have been done, it's a good bet that it's Lyme.
Were co-infections tested at a reputable lab? Sometimes co-infections can inhibit the antibody response and you won't get a CDC reportable positive until after they're addressed & treatment fir Lyme has been underway.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sutherngrl
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Member # 16270
posted
No doubt that I have LD. I was clinically diagnosed by a LLMD that has researched LD for 30 years. So now that band 41 has shown up, it seems even more evident that it is Lyme. I have been in treatment just over 3 months. Just thought someone might have been in the same situation.
It actually makes me feel better having at least something show up in the lab work. Kind of vindication or validation.
My LLMD just happens to use Labcorp for all his lab work. So having a band show up significant to LD from Labcorp makes it even more the better.
He doesn't bother with Igenex since he believes that LD should be made on a clinical diagnosis anyway. He said no labs are 100% accurate when it comes to LD.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Band 41 is non-specific, but it's a very important band in respect to it's intensity on commercial labs. It is -- as someone already said -- the first band to usually show up.
It doesn't prove anything, but it's supportive circumstantially, which is still very useful. It's far better than a purely negative test with no bands, even if the person is infected.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
The number of people exposed is in the millions. the reason you can't get treated is they have decided that only early disease merits diagnosis and treatment. the bacterium itself is the most bizarre human bacterial pathogen known, and is poorly understood. they don't know how many people are carrying a permanent relapsing brain infection. you can't get diagnosis or treatment because they have to pretend it doesn't exist and use labels like 'post lyme' and 'CFS' etc. for those who manifest illness.
Look at what steere did in his 1992 study which is the foundation for the CDC serodiagnostic standard. He and others often look back on this and refer to a 'normal' control, but in fact the control was taken from sick people...MS sufferers, CFS sufferers, in sum, conditions which could have been caused or complicated by late Bb infection. Moreover, he threw in 25 syphilitic patients which constituted 20% of the control. Hoever, syphilis itself has an annual US incidence of 3 per 100,000.
this statistical chicanery, which fudged the result at 41 kDa on Bb blot by many multiples, is significant, because syph serum will cross react at 41 kDa to Bb western blots. it allowed them to 'swift boat' the importance of the reaction to 41 kDa, which is the earliest and most consistent human ab response to Bb infection, being present in all stages as opposed to the rest of the proteins which are variably expressed according to stage, tissue type, even temperature.
Flagellin {41kDa} is necessary for Bb to survive under all conditions, and is constantly expressed, including in late CNS infection. Yet they chose to swift-boat this response.
why? it's for political and economic reasons. telling the truth about diagnosis and treatment results in mass panic and probable economic collapse/political revolution. it's likely a bioweapon. north american disease is different from european disease...lack of CSF antibodies, for instance. a much larger range of serum resistance to host species in wild{allows Bb to infect a much wider range of species, important in disease spread and maintenance in wild}. the CDC has found that Bb 31 goes intracellular in CNS cells.
Telling the truth threatens the careers and livelihoods of the very individuals who control this issue and who have actively lied and deceived and otherwise operated a scientific propaganda campaign for the past 15+ years, profitting from the campaign as they went.
lyme disease, which in the US also perhaps includes other pathogens notably a bioweaponized bartonella, threatens the entire establishment. if late disease was rare, we'd be able to get treatment. unfortunately, the EIS/CDC,DOD totally screwed this up and tried to make money off of the disease, making profitability their first priority as opposed to protecting the health of americans.
think about this...allen steere wouldn't listen to polly murray in early 90's when she reported a big incidence of neuropsychiatric disease in lyme. She had to call fallon. Now, fallon has overwhelming evidence of a serious disabling relapsing brain condition which is not easily treated. Global hypoperfusion on spect/pet ain't normal folks. Don't you think the CDC etc. should be breaking their balls trying to figure it out? Instead, we see nothing at all, only continued attempts to deny illness and obstruct treatment.
Obviously, they know what is going on, and have determined that the best course is to do nothing, to cover up, knowing that in doing so, they are condemning large numbers of people to perpetual diagnostic and treatment hell.
think about it. it's a horrific scandal and I'm not sure how much longer these *******s can keep control of it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
holy crap. band 41 was my only band at first as well.
i was seriously ill clinically when i had that reading, and just a month or so past a large EM rash.
is alagondo still here?
can anyone give me a link to this info he mentions:
"Now, fallon has overwhelming evidence of a serious disabling relapsing brain condition which is not easily treated."
my son is bad off again with global hypoperfusion.
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
What makes the WB start turning positive after antibiotic treatment? I use to know the answer to this, but I just can't remember right now.
Also if band 41 is a spirochete, and you know it isn't syphilis, since syphilis can be cured in 2 weeks; and how many other spirochetes can there be? Isn't it rather obvious that Lyme is the most likely answer, especially when symptoms are classic and everything else has been ruled out?
I think this is why my doctor feels that band 41 is significant. He didn't need it to make his diagnosis, which was made 3 months before; but I am sure that he feels that it backs it up.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sutherngrl: What makes the WB start turning positive after antibiotic treatment? I use to know the answer to this, but I just can't remember right now.
Because your body is now forming more antibodies to the bacteria.
Mo... Go to the "directory" above and type in "Aligondo Bruce"... He comes here every so often. Send him a PM and see if he'll answer.
As for Fallon's study... I would say it's the big study he did a few years ago that Bruce is talking about. Shouldn't be too hard to find.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by sutherngrl: Also if band 41 is a spirochete, and you know it isn't syphilis, since syphilis can be cured in 2 weeks; and how many other spirochetes can there be? Isn't it rather obvious that Lyme is the most likely answer, especially when symptoms are classic and everything else has been ruled out?
Exactly. If I'm not mistaken there are only two diseases attributed to spirochetes; Lyme and syphilis.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
When my daughter got tested, only band 41 showed up and I was told band 41 could mean many different infections, not just Lyme. Had the symptoms continued, I would have definitely considered Lyme despite what this pediatrician said, but they did not. I think it all depends on your symptoms along with the band.
Posts: 144 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Hi all, I started out ++ on 41 only on Igenex - IgM. I was bedridden and incredibly ill. I'd been getting sicker and sicker over a one year period. All had been ruled out.
Started LD treatment based on clinical diagnosis, voila, immediate improvement, AND subsequent tests became more and more positive, inlcuding IgG.
And, Southern, I'm getting better and better. I've been doing doxy/doryx since Feb '07, mino this summer. I bet I'm done by Feb '09. I was so sick, this is a miracle, stick with it.
Best - otm
Posts: 314 | From east coast | Registered: Oct 2007
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I think band 41 is very important especially if the person has many lyme symptoms.
For a while there, the only other thing 41 could mean besides lyme was syphilis or gingivitis. NOW, though, people have been coming up with all these other crazy things that 41 can mean and I don't know where they are coming up with this stuff... Example, some people have said a cold, menstruation or some other viruses cause 41 to pop up. I don't agree. But of course I'm not a doctor...
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Yes, could be gingivitis...but if your mouth is fine, that's out.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
An ID dco said everyone has band 41 positive. He said it's rare to find someone who doesn't on a Western Blot.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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disturbedme
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Member # 12346
posted
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: An ID dco said everyone has band 41 positive. He said it's rare to find someone who doesn't on a Western Blot.
I'd say that ID doc is wrong...
I don't know if I'd trust anything an ID doc said anyway.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Don't trust ID doctors either. Not one in this entire state that knows one thing about LD. Also they are associated with the IDSA. The one organization in the medical field that cannot be trusted
If my LLMD says 41 is significant for Lyme and seems happy that it showed up, then that is good enough for me.
Too many people are out there trying to discredit anything they can that has to do with LD.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: An ID dco said everyone has band 41 positive. He said it's rare to find someone who doesn't on a Western Blot.
Maybe he practices in CT, NJ, PA..?
(sorry couldn't resist )
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: An ID dco said everyone has band 41 positive. He said it's rare to find someone who doesn't on a Western Blot.
I'd say that ID doc is wrong...
I don't know if I'd trust anything an ID doc said anyway.
Igenix (on their own website) demonstrates in graphical format (http://www.igenex.com/innovations3.htm) that 40% of "normal" volunteers test positive. It's a very interesting graph overall and definitely worth a glance.
Posts: 99 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: There are bound to be people here who DIDN'T have band 41 show up. (Of course, that wouldn't prove anything! )
Anyone???
According to the graph (in reference to p41 ONLY), 40% of "normal" volunteers have it, 75% of syphillis patients, and 85% of lyme patients.
Posts: 99 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Aug 2008
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