posted
OK... I have a feeling this might be controversial. But, I am suspicious of muscle testing. Maybe even leery of it. I had a chiropractor ask my leg when I was going to have my baby. My leg was wrong. I know this is extreme, but I'm still kind of nervous about it and I don't know why.
Any words of wisdom?
-------------------- Never doubt in darkness what the daylight proves to you. Posts: 418 | From Utah | Registered: Apr 2009
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SForsgren
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posted
If you don't believe in it, steer clear. As someone who has found it a remarkable guide, if you are not open to it, it isn't going to be right for you.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
I disagree entirely. I've seen it prove itself over and over again. Even if it's 80% reliable, isn't that better than guessing whether drug A or drug B will work for you? The odds there are 50/50.
There are various types of muscle testing - maybe some are not as accurate, but some have been shown to be very helpful.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Is there a test that is absolutely fool proof? How fool proof is a blood test, pcr, western blot, kinesiology, EDS. My daughter had two blood tests for Hepatitis the first one came back positive the next a more sensitive test came back negative. Why, because we didn't trust the first test. If we trusted the first test she'd be treated for something she doesn't have (can I still be sure of that?). And they were set to treat her. But in the end, how much confidence should I have at blood tests?
Ask any good doctor if they totally trust the results from bloodwork in diagnosing a condition. If you do a parasite test and it comes back negative, do you trust the results?
I agree with Scott, I have had great success with practioners doing tests. Especially ART testing a form of kinesiology. I'm close to remission because of energetic testing. Like Scott, I was open to it and stayed open to it. If I wasn't, I'm sure I could have influenced the testing, stopped believing in it, and would I have been better off or just the same. I'm pretty sure looking back, I'm better because of it. Just my opinion!
Why believe in energetic testing? Its cheap if you do it yourself and always available when you think you need it. And, its better then guessing!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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SForsgren
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posted
I would NEVER have found out I had Lyme disease if it were not for energetic testing, in that case EDS. I'd still think I had MS, Fibro, CFS, and all the other BS that I was told for 8 years prior.
I'd throw every single blood test in the garbage if I had to pick between energetic and conventional lab testing. The perfect world is to use them to cross-validate each other or to draw patterns and conclusions from both worlds.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I do beilive in muscle testing as well.It depends on WHO practices it .( I do get more in TRUE I could not beilive and stik with the first ones..I intervied many and I have spent $ on many for the first apointments that did not convince me .It is the same as our LLMDs.Some stand out and they are JUST a few on how you treat .The rest tries by guessing on symtoms that is so frustrating.
BUT TRYING it to someone that is gifted MAKES A HUGE diference!
Each practitionar that I have meet use diferent positions and ways to muscle test.
I have beilived on MY ND that was gifted( comparig to others since a kid) that is the reason that I stick with her.
My llmd testes only to see if the bacteria is active and test each one of them ( main tick borne illnesses).If it was not for my llmd I did not know what to treat first.FIRST we tested the with vials for the bugs that were showing active to get an idea .
As I started treatment we saw an noticed some will be reduce and the knew one will show up and than back to the same bug.Sure bartonella was the most stubborn bug I have had and EHRLICHIA as well.Both immune suspresant.
Than we tested all drugs and herbs..most important ones to see on what I was showing strong respond.This has given an idea over all what should be next aproach and what to take and continue treatment .At least we were not shotting in the air and guessing .This was very important for me in the begining to reduce the symtoms.
I used to CARRY in my bags every time I WENT TO MEET MY LLMD all the drugs and herbs .
But my ND was even better( when it came to suport my body )My ND would combine my LLMD protocoll based on how my organs could handle the REGULAR DOSAGES of antibiotics and combine and find the right amount of herbs that went with it.
My ND did not used antibiotics but knew well the herbs and was more suportive for the organs .
I doubt I could have made any progres without my ND `s help as suporting my adrenals, kidnye , liver and detoxing as well was very important.
My Nd will also create herbs to shut up the viruses that EXSPLODED in the begining.
EACH time I would go from one to the other...to complete the protocoll with everything I needed before making changes and starting a new protocoll.
I know that each of them alone could not have been able to do that . The perfection would have been if MY LLMD would do all that BUT none of LLMD can do that -Dr K is the best.
So we went for the drugs and herbs that were positive with the bug that was VERY ACTIVE.DOES it MAKE sense ?
I assure you it never came up before I WAS positive in BABESIA and I never tested positive on MEPRON ...until lately that I have had stoped antibiotics for months and it raised its ugly head...FIRST time that I TESTED positive in 2 1/2 years( last apointment ).If I did not tested positive( not by lab ) no body would have figured it out ( regular LLMD) .
I tested my son in EUROPE and it was another way of testing...completly diferent and I beilived that one was even stronger as I have had to be as a second person to pass the energy and do the reading.
IT IS PROVED also with VIALS and BIOTENSOR that when a bug is active SO did my biotensor tested positive for that BUG.THEY MATCH WITH THE MAIN BACTERIA or infection that is positive at this time.
I only can say !
I think for any one that does not want a metod..the best thing to do is to go with what he beilives..FORCING your self into something that you do not want to beilive is not a good thing.
ME and MY KIDS have done this path ( severely sick ) and beilived on it .I HAVE EVEN EXSPLORED BEYOND IT with PENDULUM....
I was told by the best DOCTOR in the WORLD that I NEVER WILL BE OFF the antibiotics as LONG AS I LIVE as I HAVE SO MANY COINFECTIONS and I HAVE SEVERELY NEURO LYME.I am proving every body wrong.
I also have test with BIOFEEDBACK AND SCIO ....everything matches perfectly ...from USA test GADGET to GERMAN gadgets...they all match with what muscle testing , Biotensor and vials , rife found.ALL match .
ONE thing THOUGH -ART helps to get the ANSWER NOW...ONLY NOW AT THIS MOMENT , not yesterday and not tomorrow.... the body changes and in an hr..one thing you take make the changes for the hrs that are comming....and so you have to test over and give the body what wants at this moment.This is the only way to lead you .But only when you master and test yourself..will get you out.NO doctor can live with you and test you every hr.
ALSO another thing ...THE ARM test...will show how much the pathogens are blocking your body ..is not showing that the BUGS are gone completly.SAME with RIFE..you rife and than you test..Once you treat you already have killed the layers of the bugs that are active.You test and you show negative.BUt you know that you are not done.
You continue until you have no symtoms left .SAME with drugs or any metods.
You need to do it until you TAKE OVER them .IS ABOUT TO GET TO THE BALANCE of CONTROLING them .
WHEN the balance was lost that is when we got SICK AND BECAME SYMTOMATIC.
I can track down by using pendulum what is in remission and what is still active but ART showes I AM NEGATIVE..IN REMISSION .That does not mean I am done.That means that MY LYME and coinfections are not active.
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
The practitioner was not Lyme literate at the time. They scanned for hundreds of things and that is what they came up with. And it changed my life.
Energetic testing will all be proven in time...
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
It's like many other thing: there are people who are good at it and those who are not. Difference is that it is harder for the uninitiated to tell the difference.
It has been proven that acupuncture channels do exist exactly as they were sketched out 1000 years ago by tracing the flow of an electrical current applied to one end of the channel. Obviously then, there is a way for some to sense the energy flow in the body and how it changes in response to different stimuli.
Posts: 47 | From nj | Registered: May 2004
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
I've been using it for 20+ years. It does work. It's not perfect. It IS only as good as the practioner. No one is 100% accurate. It cannot miraculously fix ALL of your health problems. You still have to work at your health and follow instructions. It is a tool that in the right hands is extremely useful.
I didn't believe in it at first but the place that I wanted to buy herbs from used it on everyone that came through the door. They didn't charge for it back then. I would get tested, take my herbs home and within a few days, I would feel better. After a few weeks, I would start feeling sick again because my body had changed and I needed to change herbs.
Prior to this, I wasn't having a lot of luck feeling better with herbs. At that time I didn't know what was wrong and although muscle testing helped a lot, I was never tested for lyme, thus it did not diagnose lyme for me. This is not because muscle testing is bogus but because the person testing me did not test for lyme.
Again, muscle testing is only as good as the tester. Some people are very good at getting accurate answers and others are not. Some people are very good at asking all the right questions and others are not.
I tried to forgo the muscle testing because it was a hassle and I kept thinking it was too crazy to really work. I'm glad I kept going because I can't tell you how many times it has proven correct for me. My herbalist would often find things in me before they showed up in lab tests.
I have had lots of relief from the horrible symtpoms of lyme with it. Again, it is not going to solve ALL of your problems. It is a great tool but to each his own. I'm pragmatic. If it works, I'll use it not matter how unlikely it seems as a valid tool. LOL
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I also vouch for muscle testing and agree with the comments that it's not perfect and works only as well as the practitioner.
I have had some mild to moderate success but I don't feel it's strong enough testing to provide me a cure. It's helpful though and I generally enjoy my doctor visits with those who do practice it.
Modern medicine will always downplay it because it's not scientific enough for them and it affects the pharmaceutical companies.
Posts: 194 | From Colorado | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
I think it's misleading to say "I don't feel it's strong enough testing to provide me a cure." Are you cured by traditional medicine?
I absolutely think the strength of the testing is dependent on the practitioner and not so much the exact method. The best muscle-testers usually test far beyond "is this supplement good for you" or "do you have this infection," which is what most people that think energetic testing is "weak" probably stopped at. Although it doesn't take open-minded patients for the testing to yield accurate results (just a good practitioner), it does take an open-minded patient to yield the most benefit from the testing and according treatments. What I have done with my energetic practitioner agrees largely with Klinghardt's paradigm of illness, not because she uses ART or even associates with him, but because they both understand the cause of chronic disease is far deeper and far more complex than can ever physically be measured by modern medicine.
As for Scott's comments that energetic testing will be proven in time, I do hope so, but there is so much inertia against it (big pharma, academic medicine etc) that I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. Energetic medicine produces individualized, customized treatments so that no two people should ever receive the exact same protocol. How does that fly in the face of patents and mass production of medicine??
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Definitely works for me. Am seeing an ART practioner. What he diagnosed I believe is absolutley correct. Blood tests are tons of money and can be inaccurate as we all know.
Posts: 911 | Registered: Mar 2005
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SForsgren
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posted
Good points m0joey. Maybe we can at least dream of the day that some of our approaches to getting well are more accepted by the masses.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I think it's misleading to say "I don't feel it's strong enough testing to provide me a cure." Are you cured by traditional medicine?
Fair question and nope. Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking muscle testing because that's what helped me best last year when my symptoms first came on. If anything, traditional medicine has been much more frustrating.
Like a lot of us, just looking for that "magic cure". Some of my symptoms have been worse lately, so I'm a little frustrated at everything I attempted these last 15 months.
Personally, I think everyone should try muscle testing at least once in their lifetime.
Posts: 194 | From Colorado | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
There is no magic cure. I've been as disappointed by energetic medicine just as much as I was by traditional medicine.. but that was more a problem of impatience and the cure-or-bust mentality. You can't really compare the two modalities in any way shape or form, because one with with your body to establish balance (and hence, health) and the other attacks a microbe. It all comes down to how you conceive yourself healing(and let's be honest, if you can't conceive yourself healing, it really doesn't matter which one you choose)
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymeparfait
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posted
What energetic medicine has directed me towards is true inner heaing. It has given me peace of mind and acceptance of my circumstances and sickness, with the hope that there can be resolution to most of my problems. I need to follow the yellow brick road that lies directly ahead for me. And see it!
It takes "being open" to experience the unexplainable freedom and healing that is possible.
It has helped me understand balance and the different levels of healing that need to be activated by my "yes" to being open to something that cannot be explained, but believed.
To be so open as to not needing to understand the mechanism of healing. And I am curious...so this has been challenging in the beginning. To allow myself to be in a state of utter openness and humble of heart. This has been a gift.
I have also recently experienced spiritual healing of emotions and things that were so deep that I never realized were there, until an ART session, where my mind actually brought out my block to healing. Then bingo, I was able to move beyond the block!
I actually remembered when I got lyme! And what year I began to get some odd symptoms, and my mind revealed my connection to amalgam problems...this came from me, deep inside, not from the practitioner.
Until you have experienced this, it is hard to comprehend. I would never have believed it by reading someone's experience, only by my own experience.
I believe those who do not get better by going to a very good ND who does ART, are those who are not open and have some deep blocks. It may not be your time. Some are not ready, and many will unfortunately not be able to be in a positive mental position to accept this type of treatment.
I believe positive healing is possible for everyone. Like me, you may find out your problems are very different than what you originally thought they were. Lyme isnot my central problem. But getting lyme has helped me find my path to healing.
I also have had a major healing with prayer and now my lyme disease is not showing up in blood work or ART. Not even showing energetically to be in remission. This is not supposed to be possible, but I am experiencing it right now! Who knows, but I will take it! I have no lyme symptoms now for 2 months. This happened to my whole family at the same amazing healing service. This is a whole other topic.
Some call it a miracle, but I call it being open to and accepting the power of God to clear things in my life. It is a gift to receive such things and to be grateful for it. No matter what others think.
Like those who say they are free from lyme after the bionic, only to find it was in a hiding place and not active, that may be the case with me too, but it remains to be seen. But I feel great, so I will not talk about being healed of lyme, but of beginning my body balancing act!
My ND is amazed that lyme is not showing up for me. She has never seen this with her lyme patients, as she says it always shows either active or remission states.
But what ART does show for me, is that lyme has never been my priority, but the biggest problem has always been mercury, candida, and other viruses and bacteria, mainly Strep! That was my shocker. She finds it deep within my jaw. As we work on this, other things are clearing as well.
So ART has helped me tremendously. And I"m not sayng it's perfect, as I do not believe it is perfect, but it have given me proven direction and helped me know where to focus my treatments.
I encourage others to put away their pride and feeling of being in control, and allow yourself to be open to healing that cannot be understood. You will be given the direction to proceed to health.
And I"d like to give tribute to all who post on lymenet who have the courage to share their experiences both positive and negetive in the right spirit.
Without you all, I would never have tried ART. Those who posted about the bionic 880 have opened a door to me that has given "light" literally to my path.
Now I open each door that I am led to. And so far I only have positive experiences to report!
You have all helped me tremendously with evaluating and making decisions for my health. I will be forever grateful to you all. We are all a part of each others healings.
posted
"So ART has helped me tremendously. And I"m not sayng it's perfect, as I do not believe it is perfect, but it have given me proven direction and helped me know where to focus my treatments."
Yes Lymeparfeit VERY WELL SAID -I could not have said it any better !
This was exaclty what I felt -the begining of my body beeing able to get to the balance point!
The ART helped me to reach that level.It was my will to continue even further , healing in deeper levels by going back and open up the doors ( bloackages ) that have been created from me ( with or without the knowledge ) over the decades.
The healing process is continuing for me as well. I TOO have reached the POINT of undertanding that the healing comes from inside and I am trying to help my body to heal by adresing every reason that cause bloackages in the first place including emotions, metals , infections over years ...every thing that gave lyme a chance to get a hold of my body and brain.
And I also am thankful to every one that shared on this path ...including GIGI , SCOTT , MOJOY ,BRUSSELS and every one that shared in this forum ( as well in others)..all of them that tried the same path TO WIN their LIFE back and be open to all these things that lead to healing.
My llmd also has been exstremely surprised with me as well.
I hope that others will be open to accept and try on their own as well !
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Brussels
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Hey Tosho, we used the same practioner, but you did about 4-6 visits maximum to her? I sticked to treatment for more than 6 months to see if it worked. As it worked for me, I continued for more a few years, but I did EVERYTHING she told me to do.
You didn't follow one of her MAIN demands which was 'take these and these teeth off', if I remeber correctly? In ART, that is rule number one: if something tests VERY bad with your mouth, that's where to start treating.
If dr. B. comes and says, "you have lyme disease, you need to treat borrelia", but you don't, but you do everything else her recommends, could you say "dr. B.'s methods don't work"?
Again, agree with other people, muscle tests are not magic bullet, but I owe my recovery, my daughter's recovery mostly to it. I use muscle tests dozens of times a day, hundreds of times a week, that gives me a direction where to go.
But it's just an instrument, like a pen. If you master using a pen, you won't be a great writer, will you? NOt necessarily. Mastering muscle tests is like mastering a pen. The rest is knowledge, experience that has to guide practioners.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Also, I've read on Dr. K's site that the practitioner's ailments may show up on one's reading so you need to look for someone who is in as optimal health as possible?
How does one prevent that--practitioner's ailments--from influencing the reading?
I want to try this with my daughter.
Posts: 648 | From northeast | Registered: Feb 2009
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Ocean
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Member # 3496
posted
I'm with Scott. I too was testing with EDS (Electro-dermal screening), this is a bit different than AK, the machine picks up frequencies in the body.
I wish I'd had more faith in it when the doc told me I had Lyme and Babesia, but since it wasn't a blood test, I waited a WHOLE year to finally get blood tested for Lyme. I started looking up symptoms/stories from others with Lyme and was FLOORED when mine was identical.
And to boot, we would never have known that our son has it congenitally and my brother who was finally told by the Cleveland Clinic that "you are just one of those medical mysteries", would have never been tested for Lyme since I told him to get the WB (he too resisted for a few months til his eyes got pretty bad).
I owe a lot to my alternative MD who did EDS.
Oh, another thing, I took my bottle of Doxy to my alternative MD, b/c I wanted him to muscle test me for allergies and to make sure that my body wanted it.
He said he was very doubtful it would be positive, said the body generally will reject any type of med because they are so toxic.
So in this case, the person actually doing the muscle testing was SURE it would be a no.
He was shocked that it was a strong yes! He then did something to see how much my body wanted and it came up with 400 mg/day (he was VERY surprised at the amount! LLMD prescribed 300 mg/day). He is not lyme literate at all, but is learning and very interested in it.
I've also had my husband muscle test me (we are amateurs, but it seems to work pretty well) later on after the Doxy was making my heart stuff worse. I tried my darnest to keep my arm strong for with and without the med and of course the med won.
Jin, not sure how they asked what day your baby would be born??? Sounds a little bizzare. My chiropractor never did anything like that with any of my pregnancies, even though the first was 19 days overdue!
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Practitioner ailments do not impact the testing in ART when the testing is done with an indirect / surrogate tester. That's the only way you will ever see Dr. K do the testing. Transference and counter-transference, or induction, when testing in this manner.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Brussels
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posted
Tosho, thanks for explaining. I didn't know you did all that in 6 months, I had the impression you didn't.
I'm glad you are feeling better now and that things are moving POSITIVELY for you. It's discouraging when things don't improve.
You always told me you were a tough case.
The practioner that tested when to come back was not mine, was it? She never did that to me!
I know there's no magic treatment that heals all, unfortunately. And IN ANY case, chronic diseases cannot be cured in months, but only in years in my opinion. No matter which approach you choose.
But if you felt no improvement at all in 6 months, I agree with you, it's nonsense to continue, specially in your case, as you had to travel from so far.
I'm still dealing with some left overs (not exactly from lyme), but I don't feel anymore 'sick'. I see the other people I thought were healthy having now more symptoms than myself, so... I guess I'm healthier than them.
So I reached where I wanted to reach when I was sick with lyme, but now, I want more!
You know I basically do energetic tests, and that I owe a lot to kinesiology, or more precisely, to ART.
But as with homeopathy, it works so well with me and so fast, but some people feel almost nothing with it.
Fortunatelly there are still other approaches to try and we can then stick with what works for us!
I'm truly glad you found your treatment and that you are improving! Sorry for my misunderstanding.
--- Agree with Scott with the surrogate testing!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I have used muscle testing, kinesiology, and dousing extensively in my recovery.
I have several practitioners who use various techniques, and I use it myself at home. I rely on it.
Even my best practitioners have had blind spots, but for the most part I have found it extremely reliable.
For instance, one of my best practitioners treated me with many of Buhner's herbs for years, based on kinesiology, but never found lyme as a diagnosis until after I came in with the blood test.
Then he learned whatever he could about it, and started calling it lyme instead of lymes. He continued to treat me quite effectively, but more specifically based on increased knowledge.
I try to stick with practitioners who come highly recommended by more than one person who I trust.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I love energy testing. It has worked well for me and my family. My Md muscle tests as do my other practioners and I use a pendulum. My Md and I get the same answers without telling each other ahead of time what our answers are. You need to ask specific questions.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Tosho!
I do not blame you for not getting beter in 6 months.
I also found that the longer you were sick the longer is that you will see results.
If you have had symtoms for very long..6 months on herbs alone..are not going to do the trick.
In my case that was originaly EUROPEAN INFECTIONS and toped it off with USA as WELL...ONLY HERBS could not keep up with what was going on in my body.
It was a time that I have had to BE in DRUGS, HERBS, IV blood IRRADIATIONS, RIFE , DETOX major, IV mayers coctails , HOMEPATHIC FORMULA, creams rubbing in my body ..all of them at the same time non stop 19 months without mentioning almost 2 years on detox and herbs alone.
I also test and SEE that in MY CASE...when I search for the asnwer of eradicating one or the other infection..I do not get same answer.LET say that for one I receive consistant answer on RIFE...another ONLY homepathic and LIGHT.
ON ANOTHER INFECTIONS..it comes to me as ONLY a COMBO of DRUGS and HERBS will kill it.
So I have done things that WORKS for my case.NOT ONLY one of these that I have used HAVE WORKED ALONE in my case.
I also have noticed that IF I do not go STRONGLY after the MAIN one infections ( that could be any but is the gatekeeper for me to move forward) I am stuck and go into circle and backwards.
So I have combined all of them and was based on what protocoll worked for me based on the test.
One thing though ..MY LLMD uses DRUGS as WELL and MY ND likes ONLY HERBS..and MY OTHER alternative DOCTOR ..liked me to use ONLY IV blood IRADIATION..
So you see my point.They beilive on what they use..and I do beilive on what works for me.I combined them and TEST consistantly.Since I tested myself..I have had more progres on making my decisions on my body !
I do beilive the test brought me where I AM .Each of them is specialized on one direction.FINDING one that test and knows IT all and uses all the metods and combine them in everybody needs..seems imposible.
Because it is imposible to have one doctor that does all of what we are using and talking about lately.The only one that comes CLOSE is DR K.
And if you see ..we have used other things besides what he uses ..including light and AI or rife as well!
For test ( I stoped beiliving on LAB works) , I test with pendulum , biotensor, muscle testing and confirm with Drugs , herbs , vials and rife frequencies..IT IS TRUE is A LOT of time and energy put into it.
5 years of reading non stop and eksperimenting before I LEARNED about lyme and when I knew about it.I have invested so much into it in every form!!!
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
You have CLAMYDIA.
I just noticed...I heard from the doctor that THIS one is worst that lyme. (EUROPE) . I will PM you!
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