im wondering everytime when im looking in the mirror.. everytime i see this dark eye rings around my eye.. before i got sick, i didnt have dark eye rings.. not a little bit.
what causes this dark eye rings? my ferritin in blood is ok.. my doc suspect that i have babesia too...
can babesia cause an anemia which u cant see on the normal blood analysis?
i have bart and borrelia.. thats for sure.. and we think babesia too..
greetz
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
yeah I had them for a year solid and bart positive here. Definitely clearing up a "tad" with treatment but not totally gone.
Dr's said I was "just tired and stressed". They were so bad it was like obvious black patches, not cool.
Posts: 501 | From Cleveland Ohio | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
It's called lack of deep restful sleep and stress.
Mine are better when I am going through good periods and worse when I am in a flare.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Allergies and dehydration are 2 common causes.
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Bags under the eyes are a common symptom of allergies.
I'm not sure if you're talking about that, or about rings around your eyes.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
I think it comes from just being sick in general, and can't really be traced to once specific infection. It goes away as you get better. Make sure you are well hydrated, get sleep, and also....some MAC under eye cover up!
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posted
My son has Panda eyes which I call it. He has lyme, bart and barb. During flares, the rings are burning red, then they cool down and become dark.
Posts: 5 | From Central NJ | Registered: Sep 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Mine are TERRIBLE. I hate them!!!! They make me look reallllly sick.
Tincup, who told you that they are Bartonella? Was it a certain LLMD?
I have been dying to know what these are. I know groovy2 told me his got better with babesia treatment, but who knows...he could have been killing other infections at the time too, so it's hard to know.
I had a period where I was only on a maintence dose of abx and was feeling somewhat better, and the darkness was better then. So it was either just feeling better, or not being on the antibiotics.
Now that I'm sicker, of course I'm back on tons of drugs, and the dark circles look horrible. So I dunno if it's from the infections or killing off something, or from the drugs we take.
It is not puffiness at all, it is just a very dark pigment under the skin, that makes me look like I'm dying. People notice it.
I would love some kind of explanation.
And yes, it does look like a Panda, because it's above and below the eyes.
It seems like children are more likely to have it...but I'm 25. I got very sick when I was 17 though, and got my first bite much younger, though I never had the dark eyes until age 17.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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IckyTicky
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Member # 21466
posted
I remember my daughter, when she was 5...she was put on IV abx for three days for a double kidney infection. Then she was on low dose Macrodantin for almost a year because of bladder reflux.
The WHOLE year she had dark circles under her eyes.
Now that she just got diagnosed with chronic Lyme...I put two and two together.
I agree it could be Bart. We have all tested neg. but all of us have symptoms and my LLMD thinks we have it.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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julielynne4
Unregistered
posted
I know this doesn't really answer the original question, but....
My 12 year old son had dark circles under his eyes when he was little...I remember asking the doctor about it, and people would ask me if he had asthma (he did not).
Now that we have finally all been diagnosed with Lyme (and he and his siblings have had it since birth), I understand that his circles have been due to this infection.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Milk, wheat (gluten), corn, soy, eggs, etc. Any of these can also cause this for those with sensitivities.
posted
I have recently noticed that I have dark circles under my eyes. I never had this before I started treating. I am treating for Bart and Lyme now.
Posts: 984 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
My mother sent me a CD with family pictures. There was a picture of my father in his late teens, it may have been his high school graduation picture.
He has dark circles around his eyes.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Siciliano
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15920
posted
My daughter had this with her eyes years ago
and Dr. called them "allergic shiners" and it
was also due to mild asthma. Don't rule these out.
-------------------- I'm sorry but I am no longer accepting any private messages due to my own battle with lyme. Posts: 3897 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I have these and I hate them. they started with my illness. constant reminder that I am walking dead...
Posts: 116 | From Ann Arbor, MI | Registered: Nov 2007
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I've had them all my life, but this year found out about wheat allergy. I've been gluten free for 6 months, but dark shadows still there.
Posts: 62 | From U.S. | Registered: Apr 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
asus,
That is how I feel about them too. They just add insult to injury with how bad I feel.
It's like, it's not bad enough I feel horrible, I have to get up every morning and be frightened at what I see in the mirror.
It is always a reminder for me.
And I can definitely tell people treat me differently, when I don't cover them. They probably think I'm hung over or something, or someone who has bad hygiene. It's like if you look tired, people assume you don't take care of yourself and are a bum or doing drugs or something.
And sometimes they ARE better, like if I'm feeling better.
I just have a hard time believing that for me they're due to allergies. And if they are, what can you do about it? I mean, I tolerate all foods just fine. No gas, etc. Avoid dust? I have no clue what the solution would be.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
mh i dont think that this has something to do with allergies.. maybe some people have the eye rings, because its inherited.
i havent these until i became ill so i guess it is a symptom... but from which bug? when i or my friends get sick because of a "normal" bacterial infection.. they wont become dark eye rings.
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
My daughter that doesn't have Lyme was sick over the weekend and also had circles under her eyes.
My symptoms were pretty mild before treating and I didn't have the circles. Now that I am treating with abx, my symptoms are even milder but I have the circles under my eyes.
Posts: 984 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hooz said... "Tincup, who told you that they are Bartonella? Was it a certain LLMD?"
Yes, Dr. J in CT... and it is a pretty common thing amongst long time LLMD's. In other words.. it has been around a while.
I THINK he even wrote about it at one point in his notes. Don't make me promise I saw it in writing.. but I believe I did.
It was the way we diagnosed kids.. or at least suspected there could be Bart in the mixture years ago.
We had to try to help and try to diagnose kids the "old-fashioned" way back then, especially if funds for tests for the kids were limited.
Another comment- I never had them and I've had allergies.
Then I got sick with Lyme. Didn't have them then.
Then I got sick with Bart and they appeared.
I treated Bart and they went away. Still had allergies and lack of sleep many times.
I relapsed with Bart and they are back.
In other words...
I have had allergies and unrestful sleep.. have had them on and off for years. I didn't notice a connection to the "racoon eyes" when I had the other two problems.
Keep in mind.. a zillion and one doctors have never associated the dark eyes with an infectious disease so they wouldn't know to suspect Bart.
In that case, they could easily blame it on whatever you complain of while there that day.... making their statement make sense at the time.
Or they can blame it on the standard line, a catch all phrase like stress or lack of sleep.
I am not saying everyone with raccoon eyes has Bart... but it is something to suspect, consider and test for if this sign is present.
posted
How long did it take them to go away once you started treating for bart and what did you do to treat bart?
Posts: 116 | From Ann Arbor, MI | Registered: Nov 2007
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Tincup,
Thanks for taking the time to write up such a thoughtful reply! Gave a lot of good info there.
It is always interesting to hear what other LLMD's are saying!
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Hey to Ann Arbor, MI...
You said.. "How long did it take them to go away once you started treating for bart and what did you do to treat bart?"
Truth?
I can't remember exactly when they went away (the exact day or month it happened) as I treated for Bart for about 18 months... most of it a maintenance dose.
My thought is.... it was several months.. possibly 4-6... after treatment started.
They faded out slowly, so it wasn't a sudden "POOF, they are gone" type of thing.
Back then, early 1990's, the only thing we knew to use to treat Bart with, was Doxy.
It had been tested in the little dishes by one of our labs doing research and the Doxy Bart did the job on the Bart.
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
I too have alarming dark circles [and the inner 'sides' of the eye are dark grey too] and rather bloodshot, unhealthy-looking whites of eye.
For a special occasion, I use eye drops for the whites, but concealer patted over the dark parts is the first thing I do when putting on make-up. It makes a big difference to the morale !
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
I agree with tincup as I have read the same things that it is associated with bart especially with children. I remember a pic of a group of lyme patients at a retreat several years ago and they were making comments about all the raccoon eyes they had.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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Dawn in VA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9693
posted
WOWzahs! I've had these since becoming infected and have never heard about the association with Bart. *lightbulb* Thanks for this post.
-------------------- (The ole disclaimer: I'm not a doctor.) Posts: 1349 | From VA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I still have mine. I am thinking it's Bart or Babs, since not all Lymies have them.
I dunno.
I would be soooo glad if they went away. Something recent was making them better. I think it was Levaquin. But I had to stop it due to tendon issues. Now they are really bad again.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
"Allergic Shiners" is what they are called by doctors who know allergies. Allergies usually affect absorption causing leaky gut followed by misery until the allergies are corrected. see Allergie Immun thread.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
i didnt hear of people that u get some raccoon eyes when u are allergic.
in my case.. im allergic too and had asthma for several years.. i NEVER had raccoon eyes... that symptom occured 1-2 months after i got sick with lyme
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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posted
I took allergy shots for years and my allergies cleared up. Guess what the "allergic shiners" underneath my eyes never did clear up even though my allergies did. They do fluctuate though.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
THANK YOU FOR ASKING THIS QUESTION! I have had this development for the past 3 or 4 months. Must be Lymes or Bab related, I test negative for bart.
I've read that dehydration can cause this so i've been drinking excessively and i think i notice a slight improvement.
I have also developed allergies since all this happened ( never had'em in my life).
Posts: 41 | From astoria, new york | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
up 4 mo
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
It sounds like some people are misunderstanding the "dark circles" or "eye rings" description.
"Raccoon eyes", "eye rings", or dark "circles" means completely around the eye, not just underneath.
I developed the *under eye* dark bags when I was about 12 or 13. Various doctors have called them allergic shiners, which is probably true in my case. It is just dark bags UNDER my eyes though.
However, I also have tons of symptoms of Bart, even though I tested negative for it. I have never had the dark circles (never had it ABOVE my eyes).
It sounds to me like some people with Bart get these rings around their eyes, but not all.
I have read somewhere (forget at the moment) that it can be a symptom of Bartonella, but I'm not sure if can also be caused by Borrelia or Babesia, or any other tick-borne infections that aren't talked about here as often, or studied as frequently.
I wonder if they can also be caused by opportunistic infections.
BackinStOlaf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23725
posted
I also have slightly dark circles under my eyes that I never had before. I thought it was just stress. I have to use concealer now. :/
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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MariaA
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nefferdun
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Member # 20157
posted
I have had them my whole life so can't blame them on the bartonella. Vitamin K is supposed to help as it helps with bruising. There is a cream you can buy with vitamin K to put under your eyes. I forgot the name of it but it is very expensive.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
i have spoken with some german people and 1 of them said, that he never saw so much dark eye circles else where as on the lyme conference in germany lol ... first i thought it is a bartonella or babesia sign, but now i believe it could be some detox issue too
Posts: 371 | From velocity of light | Registered: Sep 2009
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