posted
I have a DT rife and cannot say it's this great modality for me.
Many here seem to have such positive results with it.
Why would this happen?
I have not gotten B. Rossners book on lyme...maybe I should.
Posts: 911 | Registered: Mar 2005
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I would check to make sure the machine is functioning properly. Try run a real low frequency such as 5 Hz and see if the tube pulses. If it does, it is most likely OK.
What frequencies have you used, and what other treatments are you using, if any?
Have you had any reaction to it, or just nothing?
I run 2016 Hz and it works well. 612 Hz is another good one.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Very highly likely to be the placebo effect with Rife.
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
I sometimes wonder why a treatment works for one or not another. Well all treatments are placebo, if you are happy with the result. The body heals, no substance or doctor can heal someone especially if they don't want to be healed.
When you go through the frequencies again, it just might be your frame of mind. Try changing it while you are treating. I'm curious if it might help, but be sure to not have the view it can't work, if you do, it won't.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
How can it be placebo if Dan B can make his wife react to frequencies w/o her knowing which one? Maybe she can do telepathic ART readings? Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Lauralyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15021
posted
My experience with rife definitely wasn't a placebo effect. I was herxing to the moon and back, defintely wasn't pleasant
-------------------- Fall down seven times, get up eight ~Japanese proverb Posts: 1146 | From west coast | Registered: Mar 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
A placebo effect can happen if you have expectations one way or another, but it is not going to last long. It also is more of a problem with treatments with a very subtle or hard to measure effect. Frequency treatments are not real subtle with Lyme.
If you are killing Spirochetes, you will respond to that in a physical manner, whether you think it works or not. If as person drops a hammer on their foot, it is going to hurt, I don't care what your expectation is.
There are things that can go wrong with frequency treatments, and the first thing to check is if the machine is functioning. I had a problem with mine, and I knew it when I stopped getting the effects I should have.
It may be that the reason is unknown, but it only makes sense to cover the basics, to eliminate simple problems. Especially since it could make the difference between getting better or not.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
tick, we really need some info on your freqs you're using to share our experiences.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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sutherngrl
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Member # 16270
posted
I have no idea if a rife machine actually works or not; but I admit to being a skeptic.
Here's why I think so many seem to benefit from it, or think they do.....this is just an idea from a skeptic, not saying it doesn't work.....
Most ppl have used antibiotics for a long time before ever turning to the rife machine. It is very possible that they have actually already irradicated the Lyme spirochetes by that time; but still feel really bad because of many aspects. Body is run down, a few viruses are still hanging around, etc. It is a well known fact that if you are very ill for years, it will take a few years to recondition your body.
After using the rife for a few months, not realizing the spirochetes were atually already dead, people start to feel better. They think the rife did it. They believe in it so it makes sense.
In reality, it just took this amount of time for the body, after dealing with long term illness, to start to recondition and to finally start to feel normal again. It takes at least a year after killing all the spirochets to begin to recondition the body.
Now that being said, maybe there is something to the rife machine; but I have my doubts.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
No, sorry sothergrl, not even close.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
You need to be using the right frequencies for your particular problems in order to get good results. Sometimes it's hard to tell if pharmaceuticals or herbs are having an effect even when they are. The same may apply to rife for certain people/problems.
Try different frequencies, keep good notes. Find a good kineseologist to help determine the best frequencies for you if you can't find them on your own.
Have you tried rife as part of your therapy wild? In my experience it is highly unlikely to be placebo. I started using the machine 3 months before I started abx. I had already decided I wanted one before I started abx for lyme.
I had deep painful cracks in my heels with lack of feeling and they were as hard as a rock. I'd had the problem for many years (10+) and had tried everything under the sun to heal them and nothing worked. They were getting progressively worse.
With the use of rife, within a few months the cracks were almost gone (they healed from the inside out) and they were so much softer. My husband and I were astounded. I had feeling again in my heels after years of no feeling. That convinced me. I'm sure that if placebo were going to work, it would have kicked in long before I tried rife considering all the things I had tried for this problem.
Rife will take the terrible burning in my feet away within a day. It works, that's good enough for me.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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How I'm rifing is every 12 days for lyme/coinfections picking 2 different frequencies every time.
Perhaps I should be doing more frequencies or for a longer time? I ususally do each frequency for 2-3 minutes each.
How often and how long should I use each frequency to have success?
Posts: 911 | Registered: Mar 2005
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I would do the same thing you are already doing, but a little different.
I know that 612 Hz works from experience, but only on Spirochetes. Try just 612 Hz and increase the time to five minutes.
If you get no result switch to 2016 Hz. This does effect Spirochete form, but also hits some other variant from what I can tell from using both.
By methodically going through the frequencies, you should be able to come to some kind of conclusion.
Have you tested the machine at a low frequency? The tube should pulse at 5 hz. If it does not, your device is not functioning.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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D Bergy
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posted
I should ad that the machine should be right next to you or even on your lap. That is how I use mine.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
I've never used rife SG, but I'm not buying into that theory at all. Sorry. My gut intuition is it takes aggressive, long-term combination Abx/anti-malarials targeted towards the right pathogens to ultimately win. The people doing this are the ones, sometimes, that go from 20% to 90% functioning fast.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
The tube definitely pulses so I'm assuming it's working. I sit about 2 feet from the rife which could also be a problem.
Posts: 911 | Registered: Mar 2005
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
You lose about half of the power for every foot of distance from the machine. Even at two feet it should have an effect, but closer is better.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
If it really worked, everyone would be cured by now...some of the top LLMD have mentioned that some frequencies can be very harmful and cause cancer. If it helps or has helped you thats wonderful, but it does not help everyone. Be careful. Research this stuff from real sources. Credible sources.
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seekhelp
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posted
Can you please quote the source? I really want to know.
quote:Originally posted by WildCondor: .some of the top LLMD have mentioned that some frequencies can be very harmful and cause cancer.
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tick battler
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Member # 21113
posted
tickalert - can you tell us if you have felt anything after the session or during it?
Let us know what happens if you decide to take Dan's advice and sit closer and try the frequencies for a longer time period. Did you feel anything then?
Is there anyone nearby with Lyme who rifes who could try your machine to see if they get a reaction to it? This might tell you if it is defective.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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sutherngrl
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Member # 16270
posted
Seek I am confused by your post. You say you are not buying that theory. Which theory, the one where I don't buy that rife kills ketes or the theory that rife actually works.
I am very skeptical that rife can kill ketes. Not putting anyone down for trying it; and not saying definetly it doesn't. Just very skeptical.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I do not think it is bad to be skeptical. I think it is an important trait, as a skeptic myself. But I also realize that I do not know everything, and never will.
I never used an alternative treatment prior to the Lyme infection. I had good reason not to. If they worked, my doctor would be using it. It is a comfortable thought, but not realistic.
It was only when I had no other choice that I had to find a way to treat this disease, without any access to antibiotics. If she could have been properly diagnosed and treated with a regimen of antibiotics, this conversation may never have taken place.
I was not thrilled to treat Lyme, but I am not a stupid person either, so I knew I could find a way to treat it, and I really had no other option.
You also have to consider that I am forty eight years old, and have tested this every way you can test it. I have had failures with mold and treating E-Coli. I do not pretend it works when it does not. Sometimes the results are inconclusive.
Lyme was not even questionable. A person just does not spontaneously improve from bad Arthritis and mental problems after a Deer Tick Bite.
You also cannot pretend to be pain free if you are in pain. Since the bulk of our treatment has been using this method, there really is no other conclusion you can come to.
Peter is older than I am, and we are both level headed people. It is not like we are eighteen years old, and feel everything is possible. I know I have been lied to enough to not believe anything I cannot verify.
With age comes a jaundiced eye toward most everything. Not much is taken at face value, it has to be demonstrated to do what is claimed. We are very skeptical people ourselves. At our age we are not prone to believe in magic or the latest cure all. We test and either we get results or we don't. It is as simple as that.
I do not even propose this is the best treatment for Lyme. It is just one other option for those who either are not able to use other treatments, or those who choose to use this one.
If I was making up a story I would not have spent over three years coming up with it, and to even make it more impressive I would say frequencies cured my wife of Lyme.
She is not cured, but she is much better. All I can do is report the results as honestly as I can.
It is up to each person to either use it, or not. I am not making any money or getting any other benefit from this. I just feel that it would be awful selfish not to report my results to the very people that could use it most.
I encourage everyone to use a treatment that works for them. I am not married to this one. We have used other treatments ourselves. I take a prescription for my Crohn's Disease in addition to my own treatments. I am also symptom free. One of the few people that have achieved this for any amount of time.
Frequency treatments have not contributed to my wellness, other than to remove an H-pylori infection. I have tried and they have so far failed to help my Crohn's in any meaningful way.
Then I moved on to something that did work. I do not waste time on treatments that do not produce results, and neither should anyone else.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Funny to run across this today as I am just in the process of learning about Rife. Can you please tell me who is saying this causes Cancer?
I have googled and searched and have found nothing that suggests that. Except for maybe QuackWatch, but they think Chiropractors are nuts too. They don't believe in anything other than Western Meds etc.....
The worse claims are ones that claim it is a waste of money, but I have not heard of an LLMD that claims that. How could it cause cancer? Do you know how it does that.
Thank you
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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Have these LLMD's listed what frequencies they think cause cancer so we don't use them?
Thanks
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
It is used to treat Cancer. Probably one of the most common disease it is used for. Sometimes it works spectacularly and sometimes it fails miserably.
Royal Rife was probably exposed to more frequencies than anyone in history, but he did not die of Cancer.
Your Cell Phone and wireless internet and all the other frequencies floating around expose you twenty four hours a day to random frequencies. Far more than you could ever get from a frequency treatment. These random frequencies are in the range that can affect human cells.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Dr. B, Dr. H, Dr. S, Dr. J, Dr. C, Dr. M. Dr. Z and so on, highly respected doctors, in person. I cannot mention the names due to Lymenet rules. If you research this subject enough and ask questions the answers are there. I really don't have an opinion one way or the other when it comes to Rife. If it helps you, that's great, if it doesn't, it doesn't. I'm simply posting the info I gathered from speaking to doctors on the subject.
There is equal info and opinion on the flip side from doctors who swear by it and patients who use Rife religiously.
When I tried it, even against the advice of my then LLMD, it didn't do anything for me. There are too many variables, protocols and frequencies and time fluctuations with this to determine if one protocol may be best for Lyme patients.
More research should be done. Good luck.
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Thank you! That is why I am curious why Wild Condor thinks this.
From everything that I have learned about rife, it seems to me that we are exposed to far greater things that would cause cancer. These frequencies are around me all day long. The only difference is that when you rife you are putting the machine on very specific frequencies.
I am a skeptic too and like to research before I try anything, even antibiotics. I was scared to death to try long term abx as well. I did round after round and could tell that I needed a break.
I do think the best thing about this site is that we can share and respect each others opinions and learn about what works and what does not, as we try to sift our way through this hell.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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I do agree that we need more research. In fact, we need more research in every area of Lyme.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
That's funny, when I asked Dr. H, my LLMD, what he thought about it, he didn't mention anything about it causing cancer or being dangerous. He thinks patients can herx on it but has not spent the time following it to see any results.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Oh lordie! Please re-read this. I never said that I THINK that Rife causes Cancer folks...I just posted what I was TOLD by these doctors. I have taken so many patients to LLMD visits over the years, I have gotten to know many of them on a first name basis. I have heard the Rife question being asked many times and the response was usually that Rife didn't work, could be harmful, could cause Cancer, and so on. There were positive responses such as "some of my patients swear by it" too like I said.
I found a ton or research and support in favor of Rife, so I believe it is indeed helpful and has merit. I wish it was studied more. Certainly by now it it was a CURE we would all be cured from using it. I still think it takes a combination of things to get well. Rife is probably a big piece of the puzzle for many of us. Before you get defensive, and make me out to be some "anti-Rife" lunatic please read what I said, not what you think I said please.
Ask your own doctor what they think. Keep in mind that those doctors have their own approaches to Lyme treatment and that if you want to use Rife, then you are basically somewhat telling them you don't need them or what they have to offer(or it could be felt that way to them) that is what I meant by be careful. They cannot tell you that Rife works. Hello!
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Suggest we canvas the LLMDs opinion on the safety of rife, especially cancer. I suggest we also ask, if they might suggest it to be therapeutic in there opinion off the record. I'm sure on this board we can get a few of us to ask, just to be sure.
There are several here who are interested in rife and would like to know. There are also several here who find rife to be a valueless treatment. And they seem dead set on telling the world it is valueless. I think sometimes valueless has to be determined by the adventurer. And having lyme whether you like it or not, your an adventurer. Because all you have to do is step beyond the IDSA guidelines to be one.
Even the ilad pragmatic views of seek, can see the logic in that. Right seek!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: [QB] Suggest we canvas the LLMDs opinion on the safety of rife, especially cancer.
They can't go on record saying they think Rife works. They could lose their licenses!
IF you ASK your LLMD what he/she thinks, they can tell you. But that is between YOU and your dr....not the world.
My dr said he had several patients get well on Rife. That was good enough for me. BUT... I didn't do it as a way to GET well, but to STAY well.
I would not recommend that people just dump their abx out and begin Rifing one week after a tick bite. Could work, but what if it doesn't?
tickalert.. DT says in his info to be no further than 18 inches from the machine.
I always run 10 minutes per frequency. Never more than 30 min at a time.. and this was after rifing for a few months. I built UP to that.
I also waited two weeks before running it again.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Thank You Lymetoo...for summing it up so well. Ugh Im going to bed. lol
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Part of me wants to rife but part of me realizes that I probably won't ever unless I'm to that desperate point.
Seems like too much of a guessing game.
And the time table between rifes is so long that by the time you find your niche or frequencies your like 6 months in lol
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
"And having lyme whether you like it or not, your an adventurer. Because all you have to do is step beyond the IDSA guidelines to be one."
Truest statement of the night! I think I will post that on my Facebook! thx =)
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Seems there is logic & science behind the Rife-type technology. It's not totally hocus pocus.
The main reason why it wasn't developed is because there was a decision made that the drug companies were going to be the only game in town for illness. This decision was made in the 1920's or 30's.
This is when they started cracking down on herbs, too. It may even be why marijuana is illegal...?
I have read university studies that these frequencies or vibrations can shake the pathogens & cause them to rupture. The reason it may not work for everyone is that I don't think every pathogen is susceptible to this.
For example, if you have a co-infection like babesia - if may not be effective. So, even though you have treated Lyme, you may still have babesia.
For some, the side effects of the abx can be the same as the symptoms of Lyme & company. Sometimes, people may feel better when they stop the abx since they weren't effecting the precise pathogens that they may have had.
The ticks are dirty little suckers... They carry many different pathogens.
It's all very individual. I guess you just have to give it a try to see if it works. Unfortunately, these things are expensive.
I spent thousands on abx & supplements. Some didn't work for me, either. I don't think abx are bad but they just didn't work or they were the wrong ones.
It's all about trial & error - - - I guess you could sell the Rife if it doesn't work. Too bad I can't get a refund on all the drugs & supplements I took that didn't work.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I don't think it's that abx's didn't work for you...
I think it's the protocol that fails people.
We know abx's kill pathogens... but when, how much, what combo.
These things may even play a bigger factor than anything.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
quote:Originally posted by ChuckG:
quote:Originally posted by D Bergy: Royal Rife was probably exposed to more frequencies than anyone in history, but he did not die of Cancer. Dan
Define "exposed".
Quote from Benjamin Cullen, who watched Rife work regularly.
"I've seen Roy sit in that doggone seat without moving, watching the changes in the frequency, watching when the time would come when the virus in the slide would be destroyed. Twenty-four hours was nothing for him. Forty-eight hours. He had done it many times. Sit there without moving. He wouldn't touch anything except a little water. his nerves were just like cold steel. he never moved. his hands never quivered.
Of course he would train beforehand and go through a very careful workout afterward to build himself up again. But that is what I would call one of the most magnificent sights of human control and endurance I'd ever seen".
Rife's technology did not harm the human or animal host. The oscillatory rates of humans and small mammals are much more complex than (and much different from) the MORs of microscopic virus's, bacteria or fungi. Rife was confident about the safety of his equipment, and stated this on numerous occasions.
"With the [50 to 60 watts of] power that is in these [ray tubes] there is absolutely no harm.... I had my [ray] tube right here...about 11 or 12 inches away from the slide in the microscope. And here I was with...that tube going...year after year...and it never harmed me in any way."
"I stood in front of that thing [his RF ray tube] for 30 years finding these different frequencies that devitalize these different bacteria. And that thing was shooting me right here [his chest], but it is absolutely harmless to normal tissue."
The previous text is from Nenah Sylver's book "The Rife Handbook".
She cites:
John marsh collection, Gonin and Siner papers. www.rife.org, 2,3.
From the Complete Royal Rife CD Collection: 10-volume CD set, transferred from audiotapes originally recorded by John Marsh, of Royal Rife talking about his technology with colleagues. Available at www.rifevideos.com/the _complete_royal_rife_cd_collection_mp3.html
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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I think it does some thing but I'm not feeling like this has done it. Trying some of things on here might be an alternative.
I rifed two days ago and noticed the next day I felt better.
I've had lyme for probable 30 years.
Abx is not am option for me either. A while back I had C Diff which could've killed me as bad as it was.
Since we all know not every thing works for everyone it's definitely a fishing expedition when it comes to lyme tretament.
I have a close friend who had cancer, went to Mexicos for treatment and is well today. One of the things they used was rife combined with many other modalities.
In terms of a lot of LLMD'S not liking rife that I'm not sure of. I did treat with one LLMD who told me to try a rife machine. Lymetoo...it's your LLMD.
Posts: 911 | Registered: Mar 2005
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
How much research in other countries has been done with RIFE? I know we won't see studies in this country since the Insurance Companies run the country's medical industry. How do they know which frequencies do what?
I know a guy in Philly who has had great success with RIFE.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
From my experiences with loved ones...chemo, radiation and surgery don't "cure" cancer either.
So I don't think to highly of todays traditional medicine. Big Pharm sucks too. If I had waited for the system to help me get my life back...
I'd be dead.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote:Originally posted by tick battler: That's funny, when I asked Dr. H, my LLMD, what he thought about it, he didn't mention anything about it causing cancer or being dangerous. He thinks patients can herx on it but has not spent the time following it to see any results.
tickbattler
I see Dr. H too. He said the same thing to me that he said to you TB. He wasn't receptive at all, but his PA was very receptive and supportive. However, she's showing support because I've done everything else. No options are left aside from IV again, but that'll just end in me going on and off IV, and then relapsing, then back again. I've been sick too long.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote:Originally posted by WildCondor: Oh lordie! Please re-read this. I never said that I THINK that Rife causes Cancer folks...I just posted what I was TOLD by these doctors. I have taken so many patients to LLMD visits over the years, I have gotten to know many of them on a first name basis. I have heard the Rife question being asked many times and the response was usually that Rife didn't work, could be harmful, could cause Cancer, and so on. There were positive responses such as "some of my patients swear by it" too like I said.
I found a ton or research and support in favor of Rife, so I believe it is indeed helpful and has merit. I wish it was studied more. Certainly by now it it was a CURE we would all be cured from using it. I still think it takes a combination of things to get well. Rife is probably a big piece of the puzzle for many of us. Before you get defensive, and make me out to be some "anti-Rife" lunatic please read what I said, not what you think I said please.
Ask your own doctor what they think. Keep in mind that those doctors have their own approaches to Lyme treatment and that if you want to use Rife, then you are basically somewhat telling them you don't need them or what they have to offer(or it could be felt that way to them) that is what I meant by be careful. They cannot tell you that Rife works. Hello!
I understand. Make's sense. Thanks WC. Most doctors should be able to provide support even if they can't offer direct therapies with drugs. Supporting the body thru prescribing detoxification routines, education, even emotional support and guidance in other holistic areas.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
I have no opinion or experience as I never rifed, but keep in mind LLMDs want to make $$$$. If rife worked and you didn't 'need them', why on Earth does anyone think they'd promote it even if allowed to by law? Like everyone else, they need to drive cars, pay for nice buildings, and have money right? We assume LLMD = selfless = no concerns over revenue and patient base and just an eternal wish to cure all patients anyway possible. It's idealistic, but not true many times.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Then there is always the subject of money as well. There are many people spending tens of thousands of dollars on IV, long term ABx, etc....Some have spent hundreds of thousands.
I actually think that if Rife works for some and you could re-coup a lot of your cost if in your situation that if it did not work(sell the machine), it could also be a lot cheaper in the lung run then a lot of the western medicine approaches. Some people just can't afford long term abx or IV's.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Rife is not just placebo!! Depends pm what coinfections and what strain of the pathogen you have. Just have to keep plugging away at it and trying new freuquencies, increasing times with the enem to at least 7 mins for each freuquency and run at least a few times a week!! This is a key. if one does not work. Keeping a jourmal is a must!!
Posts: 67 | From cape cod | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
DT says only to rife every 12-14 days. That seems like a long time in between sessions.
My underestanding is you risk liver dammage if you do it to often?
I feel at this point I just haven't hit the right frequencies for babs yet. I'll keep trying.
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tick battler
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Member # 21113
posted
tickalert - where did you hear about liver damage? I have never heard this. I have seen that the people who improved rife more often than that.
It is my understanding that you should rife again once your herx from the last session is over and you are feeling good again. This may be more often than once every 2 weeks. Is this what you all think?
Thanks,
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
My 2 cents - I am a new rifer with a very powerful machine running at low setting and I am SURE this kills spirochetes. Placebo - for me using this machine - absolutely not. I have had really dramatic herxes, many aspects of which are different from my usual symptoms or abx herxes. And noticeable changes even while the thing is running - eg speech going from normal to hestitant/slurry, pressure on top of head. I expect to go through alot of herxes from hell before I feel better from this.
I think Rosner's Lyme and Rife book is essential if you are going to rife.
There isn't hard science either way yet to say whether it can cause harm in the long term. Lyme causes me enough harm in the short term that for me, it's worth going for it.
Posts: 227 | From South of the North Pole | Registered: Jan 2007
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
Some LLMDs care more about their patients well being. My doctor said she has had good success with Rife and gave me the name of a few places to get one!
I also talked a friend from Denmark and she said they are way more common in Europe and they have much sucess.
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: I have no opinion or experience as I never rifed, but keep in mind LLMDs want to make $$$$. If rife worked and you didn't 'need them', why on Earth does anyone think they'd promote it even if allowed to by law? Like everyone else, they need to drive cars, pay for nice buildings, and have money right? We assume LLMD = selfless = no concerns over revenue and patient base and just an eternal wish to cure all patients anyway possible. It's idealistic, but not true many times.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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annxyzz
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posted
I have read posts for several years here and have to conclude that there are too many INTELLIGENT people here finding benefit from rife to ignore or write off . these people spend enormous amounts of time encouraging others and receive nothing for sharing their experiences . May I add that even with ABX , there is no silver bullet protocol. EVERYTHING IS EXPERIMENTAL as we travel this road . I am EXTREMELY GRATEFUL for people here who share their experiences . My neurologist said that if he wanted to know how successful a therapy was , he only had to quiz the patients trying it . If reasonable and honest people here report seeing a benefit REPEATEDLY , then it is wise to conclude that a modality indeed benefits those who see improvement , even if I am not among them . Jeepers .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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lymielauren28
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posted
Throughout my journey with Lyme I've had 2 LLMD'S. When I asked my first one about rife he said, "Absolute garbage. They don't work. Forget about it." I did forget about it for a long time.
I switched doctors about a year later and went through another year of abx and antimalarials. I ordered a rife machine and told my new LLMD about it at my following appointment. He was so supportive and he told me that he personally knew of another LLMD who cured himself using a rife machine. He gave me the go ahead and I've never looked back. That was actually my last appointment with him or any other LLMD for that matter.
For some reason they don't work for everybody. Go figure. Neither does any other Lyme treatment known to man. I do know that it has worked for me though and it's definitely not the placebo effect. One thing is weight gain - I've been painfully skinny since contracting Lyme. No amount of abx, antimalarials or food could put weight on me. 6 months into rifing I gained 20 pounds and I NEEDED it. My brain fog is gone, I don't twitch, I'm not depressed, I don't ache, I no longer run fevers, my floaters are gone...it's been nothing less than amazing.
Add all this to the fact that I was SO skeptical when I got my machine. I expected it NOT to work. When it did work it blew me away. In order for the placebo affect to work you have to first believe that it will...
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
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Member # 6628
posted
I don't know personally whether Rife works. I have invested a lot of time into studying it. I know very little still.
I am out of typical options. I will Rife. If I am successful, I will encourage people. If it doesn't work, I'll simply say so.
In the end, the results "only" apply to me, not any other users.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
Lymielauren, thanks for sharing . I do believe it works for some people , and when it does work , they know it ! I am hoping to try it too after Lymetutu, Ernie's, and D bergy's improvement . A powerful herx would be a hard thing to imagine, and with dam- disease , I do not believe a placebo response could take place . The suffering is just too great .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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annxyzz
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posted
Lymielauren, thanks for sharing . I do believe it works for some people , and when it does work , they know it ! I am hoping to try it too after Lymetutu, Ernie's, and D bergy's improvement . A powerful herx would be a hard thing to imagine, and with dam- disease , I do not believe a placebo response could take place . The suffering is just too great .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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springshowers
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posted
Shame on you WC for scaring people like that.
Give me break that that long list of doctors gave warnings like you stated.
I myself do not believe it whatsoever. If your saying that some doctors recommend not using to many electrical devices.. then please correct the above to say that.
You got people scared now of some other thing and that rife can cause cancer and it is said to be such a big risk by all those doctors as well.
Please.. come on now..
I really think that from other threads if something does not work for you you have a very Strong opinion about it and will speak in blanket statements against it .. using words like "worthless" "waste of your money and time" "does not work"
I am really frustrated reading this sort of feelings and energy in the threads lately..
Someone has to speak up..... Everyone is afraid to say what their feeling most of the time on this forum and then it builds up..
I have heard this same sentiment in PMS but nobody wants to step on any toes...
Sometimes you got to Step on a toe or even slam a foot with your heal..
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richedie
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posted
lymielauren28,
Which Rife machine did you have??? How long till results?
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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lymielauren28
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posted
Richidie, I have the EMEM. The firsat 3 months were really hard bc I was herxing so much from the treatments. After that I made huge improvements...
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by tickalert: DT says only to rife every 12-14 days. That seems like a long time in between sessions.
My underestanding is you risk liver dammage if you do it to often?
No, it's because you could herx way too hard if you do it too often. I never heard anything about it damaging the liver. I don't think that is true at all.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Dancer: I think Rosner's Lyme and Rife book is essential if you are going to rife.
Absolutely!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Just like abx, the key is finding the right frequencies, exposure to frequencies for long enough and at appropriate intervals for your problems. Keep trying.
I've no doubt that rife's effect is not due to placebo. My dogs mites are almost gone using rife only. Eye hair has almost comletely come back and she no longer constantly shakes her head due to mites in the ears. We tried medication from the vet and the mites came back within a a few weeks. Rife works. The key is getting the right frequencies.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Kebler is the one who has said you can destroy your liver if not careful rifing.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I think we should all take great care when 'quoting' LLMDs.
I respectfully point out the following --
WildCondor originally said
quote: "some of the top LLMD have mentioned that some frequencies can be very harmful and cause cancer."
and then further down
quote: I have heard the Rife question being asked many times and the response was usually that Rife didn't work, could be harmful, could cause Cancer, and so on.
"could cause cancer" is not the same as saying "causes cancer" or "frequencies in this range (insert numbers here) have been shown by these studies (list studies here) to cause cancer".
If and when there is scientific evidence that specific EM frequencies or ranges do cause cancer, then the next questions are, which rife machines if any are capable of running those frequencies, are those frequencies being run by patients to treat Lyme, what kind of exposure times are needed to produce that effect....
Posts: 227 | From South of the North Pole | Registered: Jan 2007
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
It does not take a whole lot of effort to find that the only frequencies that are even being considered as possibly having negative health effects are not even close to what are used in these frequency machines.
The frequencies that are questionable are all in the higher bands of frequencies used by cell phones and the towers, cordless phones, wireless internet and so on. Gigahertz range frequencies, or higher.
Either the people making these warnings are under the impression that frequency treatments are using these ranges, which they are not, or they are ignorant of the method in general.
Your stereo puts out the same range of frequencies, and I have never heard of anyone claiming a stereo can cause cancer.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by lymielauren28: Richidie, I have the EMEM. The firsat 3 months were really hard bc I was herxing so much from the treatments. After that I made huge improvements...
Thanks, what's the EMEM? Do you have a link with info?
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
No links available .. you'll have to contact her directly.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
How could you get a machine and have it be bad? Are they making junky machines? I see them all over Amazon.com with good reviews.
I doubt the placebo effect is a reality. I have been on abx for a long time. Do I think everthing has been erradicated? Hardly. Why are my hands and feet still green and blue?
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
I don't know anything about anything (and I mean that sincerely, the longer I am alive--the more sure I am that I know NOTHING), but I have to chime in here about the so-called dangers or even ineffectiveness or craziness of rife-like therapy.
If one does even a cursory search of pubmed there are a boat load of studies using frequency treatment for cancer, parkinsons, alzheimers, MS, bone repair, wound healing, depression,......on and on.
There are currently trials going on (one in my home town- Chicago), where inoperable brain cancer is being treated by having patients walk around with a frequency machine by their side and electrodes attached to their heads---it seems to be working.
There is a company (Pico-Tesla Magnaceutical) on the way to FDA approval for low frequency treatment of Parkinsons. They are also testing it for type II diabetes. One may go to a drs. office and get FDA approved treatment with pulsed magnetic fields for depression.
I am not a tin-foil hat (although, I 'm not dissing tin-foil hats as a fashion accessory )type, and my entire family has used tons of abx and continues to do so, but unless one does their due diligence into rife-type therapies, it's easy to misunderstand it.
Posts: 554 | From Naples, Italy | Registered: Jun 2006
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
All the LLMD's I mentioned by initial DID say that when I asked directly. Do I believe what they all said, NO! Don't any of you go to the Lyme conferences and ask questions? Keep in mind that is only a small sample of all of them and there are some who do endorse it. Also keep in mind that I was not their patient at the time so they could give me their opinion. They can NOT give a patient their opinion on what Rife does for a patient, that is against the law. Dr. J for example told me that some patients feel it helps them. When I talked to Dr. Z recently it was obvious that there were a few patients who swear by it but also one who had a miscarriage from using one who was not warned that you should not Rife while pregnant. Dr. B blatantly said it "causes cancer" while Dr. C said it "Rife can cause cancer" and we had a long conversation about the placebo effect of having a healing apparatus in front of you. Bottom line, do your own research folks. Because of this post, I asked Dr. C for the proof of what he was talking about to be emailed to me from the American Cancer Society. It is posted in the post below this.
Anyway, again, I have no stance on Rife one way or the other. If it works for you great, lovely. I would probably try it again if I was sick. There is no shame in trying to help people, or reporting back info I have gathered. All sides of the issue should be heard just be careful not to put your LLMD in a position where he/she might be breaking the law, they all have enough problems.
Anyhow here is the article you wanted Richie...the other from Dr.C is in the next post.
Rife Device Marketer Sentenced to Prison Stephen Barrett, M.D.
In February 2009, a jury found James Folsom guilty of 26 felony counts relating to his sale of unapproved medical devices. According to evidence presented at the trial:
* From 1997 through August 11, 2008, Folsom conspired with others to ship adulterated and misbranded Rife-type biofrequency devices in interstate commerce.
* The devices, sold under the names ``NatureTronics,'' ``AstroPulse,'' ``BioSolutions,'' ``Energy Wellness,'' and ``Global Wellness,'' consisted of a micro-current frequency generator with a digital readout, two stainless steel cylinders, and two personal application plates with connectors and lead wires connecting the device to the cylinders and the plates.
* Users were provided with an operating manual that set forth hundreds of digital settings for the device that were said to directed to specific conditions such as AIDS, diabetes, stroke, ulcers, and worms. Users were advised to connect the cylinders or plates to the machine and touch them to the body for a run time specified for each condition.
* Folsom purchased over 9,000 units, which he sold to distributors for approximately $1,000-$1,200 and to retail customers for $1,995, with sales of over $8 million. The devices were manufactured by Folsom and others in a San Diego location that he failed to register with the FDA as a device manufacturing establishment.
* Folsom used the false name ``Jim Anderson'' when selling the device and used post office boxes, self-storage units, and bank accounts opened in the names of others to conduct his business, all in an effort to avoid detection by the FDA. He also claimed that his devices were ``for investigational purposes'' and gave buyers the false impression that the FDA had approved them for investigation [1].
The jury also concluded that Folsom committed six of the offenses while on pretrial release. As a result, the Court concluded that he was not likely to refrain from further illegal activity and remanded him immediately into custody. In February 2010, Folsom was ordered to pay a $250,000 fine and was sentenced to 59 months in prison to be followed by 3 years of supervised release. The judge also ordered the destruction of more than 450 devices that the Government had seized during the execution of a search warrant at a self-storage unit used by Folsom [2].
The investigation was conducted by the FDA Office of Criminal Prosecution and the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.
Folsom's device consists of a small black box with dials, a digital screen, and wires leading to a pair of stainless steel cylinders or metal plates. The box is plugged into an electrical socket, and a patient holds the cylinders or stands on the plates. The device was said to have been inspired by the work of Royal Raymond Rife (1888-1971), an American who claimed that cancer was caused by bacteria. During the 1920s, he claimed to have developed a powerful microscope that could detect living microbes by the color of auras emitted by their vibratory rates. His Rife Frequency Generator allegedly generated radio waves with precisely the same frequency, causing the offending bacteria to shatter in the same manner as a crystal glass breaks in response to the voice of an opera singer. The American Cancer Society has pointed out that although sound waves can produce vibrations that break glass, radio waves at the power level emitted by a Rife generator do not have sufficient energy to destroy bacteria [3].
Folsom is a former business associate of Kimberly Bailey, a Fallbrook, California woman who sold similar devices until she was sentenced to life in prison in 2002 for plotting the kidnapping, torture and murder of Richard C. Post III, her business partner and lover [4]. The evidence presented at her trial established that in August 1998, she conspired with John Bryon Krueger and Humberto Iribe to kidnap Richard C. Post, III. In 1998, in accordance with the plan, Bailey lured Post to Mexico where he was kidnapped by Iribe and men working for him. Iribe and his men held Post hostage in Mexico for approximately about five days, brutally beat him, and finally killed him. The evidence presented at trial and sentencing established that Krueger repeatedly met and spoke with Bailey and Iribe while Post was held hostage. The evidence further established that Bailey paid Iribe approximately $40,000 to have Post kidnapped and about $10,000 more to have him killed [5,6]. Krueger was sentenced to 12 years in prison and five years supervised release and ordered to pay a $25,000 fine. Uribe was eventually caught, pled guilty in 2007, and was sentenced to 25 years in prison [7].
Krueger, who had worked for Bailey, also received a concurrent sentence of 30 months for conspiring to introduce unapproved medical devices in interstate commerce. In pleading guilty, he admitted that he agreed to act as the Administrator of the Royal Rife Research Society, the purpose of which was to promote the use of Rife devices for the treatment and cure of diseases and physical conditions. Although the Society purported to be an independent research organization unaffiliated with any manufacturer of biofrequency devices, Krueger admitted that the Society referred likely buyers to himself or Bailey. References
1. USDOJ news release, Feb 17, 2009. 2. USDOJ news release, Feb 8, 2010. 3. American Cancer Society. Questionable methods of cancer management: Electronic devices. CA--A Cancer Journal for Clinicians 44:115-127, 1994. 4. Darc� K. San Diego man convicted of selling illegal medical device. San Diego Union-Tribune, Feb 18, 2009. 5. USDOJ news release, Nov 1, 2002. 6. Statement of facts. In Government's trial memorandum. USA v, Kimberley Bailey. U.S. District Court, Southern District of Florida, filed June 12, 2002. 7. Manolatos T. S.D. man's abduction a cautionary, brutal tale. San Diego Union-Tribune, May 6, 2008.
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
I got the article about the placebo effect I was talking about from Dr. C.
Here you go from the American Cancer Society
Questionable methods of cancer management: electronic devices.
American Cancer Society. Questionable methods of cancer management: electronic devices. CA Cancer J Clin. 1994;44:115-127.
Alternative Medicine: Expanding Medical Horizons. A Report to the National Institutes of Health on Alternative Medical Systems and Practices in the United States. Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office; 1994. NIH publication 94-066.
Barrett S. James Gary Davidson and the Monterrey Wellness Center. Accessed at: www.quackwatch.org on May 30, 2008.
Cassileth B. The Alternative Medicine Handbook. New York, NY: W.W. Norton & Co; 1998.
Lescarboura AC. Our Abrams verdict: The electronic reactions of Abrams and electronic medicine in general found utterly worthless. Scientific American. 1924;131:158-159.
Manesh AO, Flemming K, Cullum N, Ravaghi H. Electromagnetic therapy for treating pressure ulcers. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2006;(2):CD002930.
National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine Research Report. Questions and Answers about Using Magnets to Treat Pain. Accessed at: http://nccam.nci.nih.gov on March 29, 2007.
National Institutes of Health. Alternative Medicine: Expanding Medical Horizons: A Report to the National Institutes of Health on Alternative Medical Systems and Practices in the United States. Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office; 1994. NIH publication 94-066.
Rubik B. Energy medicine and the unifying concept of information. Altern Ther Health Med. 1995;1:34-39.
Sherman RA, Acosta NM, Robson L. Treatment of migraine with pulsing electromagnetic fields: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Headache. 1999;39:567-575.
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posted
The day I start quoting Steven Barrett is the day I quit everything that is good and decent.
According to him we are all crazy, the IDSA is correct and LLMDs prey on us silly, delusional,stupid, patients----and I find him so shortsighted and offensive that I can't bring myself to accept that he has an audience........I can't believe that something he wrote would be used on this site as evidence that a treatment doesn't work. Come On! this is Lymenet---the site I would defend to the death for helping my family sooooo much.
Besides Barrett's drivel, here is some actual research into frequency treatment. There is a lot more, but hey, I do have to actually live this miserable thing I call a life
Here is the link (below)to the University of Illinois Chicago trial of the Novacure device from the article above. It's near the top---look for the device NovoTTF-100A- it has had really favorable local press and results.
Here is a link to a newsletter from Thomas Jefferson Hospital/Medical School in Philly about the collaborative work of Anthony Holland using a Rife-type treament for pancreatic cancer.
Look, I am not a cheerleader for anything, but even before I did any research into Rife, I always kept my mouth shut (because that is what I think one should do when they don't know what they are talking about AT ALL), but now I HAVE looked into this enough to know that it COULD work, and that there is slim to no evidence that it causes cancer---in fact there is mounting evidence that it could help cure it.
The one thing I have learning about Lyme is that no one cure has worked for anyone, so let's keep an open mind!!!!
Ok, back to taking care of my neuro-lyme husband who after 4 months of tigecycline is herxing on oral Omnicef---go figure! Long live borrelia!!! It needs no help from us.
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)type, and my entire family has used tons of abx and continues to do so, but unless one does their due diligence into rife-type therapies, it's easy to misunderstand it.
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