posted
My head has been spinning with all the inconsistent information out there...what do you all think? Can Wood/dog ticks carry Lyme? Since I did not keep the tick that caused me to get a rash I am not sure what kind it was. My LLMD said he thinks all ticks are bad, but almost every other medical "professional" dismisses me because they say it sounds like it was too big to be a deer tick and that it was not embedded long enough to pass any bacteria.
I am on antibiotics now, but have a sore throat that just won't quit. Paranoid?
Thanks, Springpeep
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
| IP: Logged |
Don't talk to any other medical professionals if they know nothing about Lyme.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- ANY tick, anywhere, anytime can be infected with lyme and other tick-borne infections. If so, their bite will infect -- and can do so immediately.
Although the sooner a tick is correctly removed, the better, there is no time frame that avoids transmission. That is old "information" and a myth - infection can be immediate. Symptoms may not show for some time, but the instant the bite occurs, bacteria, viruses, etc, can be transferred from mouth parts and then, soon, from the tick's gut.
As long as there is even a trace of infection in the tick's mouth, that trace gets an early start.
We just need to stop hiring doctors who are ignorant in the matters that we require advice.
Your LLMD is correct. Stick with the expert who has truly studied tick-borne disease. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Dog Ticks may be able to carry Lyme, but I think it is rare. Partly because they are far bigger than a Deer Tick, you are likely going to find it pretty quickly. I do agree that it is more likely the tick will pass something on, the longer it is attached. That does not mean it is not possible to pass a pathogen in minutes, under the right circumstances.
The other part of the equation is that Dog Ticks are more common, and around here, being bit by one is not a rare occurrence. If there was any amount of them carrying Lyme Disease, we would basically not have an uninfected person within 100 miles of my region.
I treat myself immediately with MMS regardless of what kind of tick bit me. Better safe than sorry.
Dog Ticks likely do carry around other pathogens, some known and probably some that are not known. Most may be handled by the immune system, but that all depends on how well your immune system is working to begin with.
I have heard about enough people that have got Lyme from Spider bites, that I do think they often carry Lyme. I have no proof of that, but it is unusual to have several reports of Spider bites causing Lyme. It is hard to discount them all.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
"The American Dog Tick, the Lonestar Tick, and the Deer Tick, are just a few of at least 9 different species of ticks that carry the Lyme Disease spirochete.
It is also found in at least 6 species of mosquitoes, 13 species of mites, 15 species of flies, 2 species of fleas, and numerous wild and domestic mammals including rabbits, rodents, and birds."
posted
The site that you mention just reproduces this quote. Is there another reference that proves the point.... I have been looking for this for ages!
Posts: 250 | From canada | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
onbam
Unregistered
posted
I got mine from a dog tick that wasn't even attached; all it had done was inject me with whatever it uses to prepare the feeding site.
IP: Logged |
Remember to Smile
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by springpeep: Can Wood/dog ticks carry Lyme?
Yes, Springpeep, they can and DO.
I'm a stickler for hard science and very critical/skeptical as a reader. That said, my IQ is falling off into some duck pond instead of being bathed in the last traces of an ephemeral vernal pool, so i cannot today provide links.
I am confident from my intensive recent reading that there are at least 3 spp of ticks that carry the Lyme Bb spirochete in my State, and at least 7 spp of ticks in the USA that have been shown to carry Lyme Bb.
I echo the urgings of several posters above: ONLY work with LLMDs from now on. Any interaction with non-LL ducks will likely be hazardous to your sensitive herp skin.
"Healing Lyme" by the wondrous LL herbalist S.H.B. has TONS of data & references that will clarify everything we may not be able to for you today. Try to gather the funds to purchase this valuable book at your earliest opportunity. You'll find rest in the cover photo.
Best wishes, and i'll be listenin' for you. Smile
IP: Logged |
Remember to Smile
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Tincup: ...the Lyme Disease spirochete. It is also found in at least 6 species of mosquitoes, 13 species of mites, 15 species of flies, 2 species of fleas, and numerous wild and domestic mammals including rabbits, rodents, and birds.
From my readings elsewhere, i sense Tincup's info quoted here would be likely to be found pretty accurate. It is very unfortunate that her site is so sparsely footnoted, though.
I have come to understand that regardless of the numerous other biting insects that have clearly been shown to carry the Lyme Bb spirochete, TICKS remain our focus of concern.
Ticks "attach" and thus give the Lyme Bb spirochete an opportunity to adapt / change form to suit whatever host the tick has found. The Lyme Bb gets extra time to alter its form to best invade and evade a host immune system when it's carried by ticks. Mosquitoes, for example, are more hit-and-run. I will remain quite concerned about deer flies and horseflies, both of which have been shown to carry Lyme Bb.
And, heck yeah, we gotta be wary of any and EVERY tick. Species of tick is irrelevant and THAT, i believe will be borne out again & again in the scientific literature.
Oh, just had a little Lymie brainstorm of memory: Search for articles in veterinary literature if you want more science. Vets are able to publish and speak about Lyme without risking their entire careers and families' income. You can learn a lot by reading what's been published about cats, dogs, horses, cows, and even NC porpoises with Bartonella henselae. Best, Smile
IP: Logged |
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Any blood sucking insect or tick can carry it >>>>
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
I have a friend who pulled a dog tick off her son and he got a bull's eye at the site 24 hours later.
And I have two different friends who flicked ticks off of themselves (so they weren't embedded) less then 20 minutes after being outside. The ticks were not there before the ladies went outside. Both women now have lyme&co.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Agree with treepatrol... and my LLMD is saying the same thing these days after treating people with only spider bites or flea bites and they have the same test results as with the tick bite people. He thinks this should be called Vector borne diseases..... maybe it should! I never had a tick bite... ? I had a horsefly bite years and years ago with a huge round red ring on my leg. Also have had a lot of flea bites in my life (was married to a fur trapper for the state of MT). Who knows..... Just need to be open to the fact that this disease can come from many vectors! Wonder when someone will prove that?
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
The only "hard reference" I have at hand is from a Ca study listed below.
"The etiological agent, Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato, has been identi�ed in a variety of tick species across the globe..."(and they referenece Steere (!!) for that in this study.
The study also found lyme and erhlichia in dog ticks and pacific coast ticks.
Detection of Borrelia burgdorferi, Ehrlichia chaffeensis, and Anaplasma phagocytophilum in Ticks (Acari: Ixodidae) from a Coastal Region of California KEVIN HOLDEN,1 JOHN T. BOOTHBY, SULEKHA ANAND, AND ROBERT F. MASSUNG2 J. Med. Entomol. 40(4): 534�539 (2003)
Also, keep in mind that the nymph stages of the ticks (which can be size of period at the end of this sentence) are capable of transmitting disease. So assuming you get lucky enough to notice a tiny dot on your body AND you happen to save it AND get it to an entomologist , there is NO WAY you are going to know what kind of tick it is at that stage of tick development. So the very fact that a doctor would tell you that "its too small" to be a deer tick, tells me they don't know 1. tiny, nymph stages of deer ticks transmit lyme 2. Other kinds of ticks (and also their nymph stages) transmit lyme and other diseases as well.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
I am proof that the common wood tick is transmitting lyme in Montana, a state that was previously in the "lyme free zone" as there are no deer ticks here.
I was bitten by a wood tick which was attached for about 24 hours and within days after finding it, I had three EM rashes and was becoming sick. I have not left the state except in winter so could not have been infected elsewhere. A couple of months ago I tested very positive, even passed CDC guidelines for lyme disease.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Once again, the network of people here have done much better answering my questions. Thanks.
@ nefferdun: What were your early symptoms besides the EM rashes? Sounds like we have parallel experiences. I got a bullseye three days after a tick bit, likely a wood tick because of it's size. I am feeling flu like right now, but I am on antibiotics. I am trying not to feel like a hypochondriac, but I don't feel good. Did you start treatment right after your rashes?
I have always been skeptical of traditional Western Medicine and all the experiences that I have had in the past two weeks and all that I have read and confirmed my thinking. It's the LLMD for me here on out.
I am an outdoors person, how do you all cope with the knowledge that Lyme (or all the other co-infections) are lurking around every blade of grass? I have two small kids, tick checks have become frantically mandatory, but there are mosquitoes, and all sorts of other things out there too. I don't want to live my life in fear of what might happen, but there are scary stories out there.
Yep, I'm a newbie as you would say.
peep
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
| IP: Logged |
I'm reading Cure Unknown right now. And, the basic point I'm getting when it comes to ticks is that we are completely unsure about the "safety" of some ticks or even the reasons that some ticks are "unsafe."
My vet tests my dog for three tick-borne bacteria every year, regardless of any exposure history, let alone a known exposure to a deer tick.
Yes, I know, dogs are different, but, for me, that is instructive.
My current strategy for me and my kids is to record all strange-looking (or new) bites or rashes or "tick sightings" in my home or on us. My daughter has strong reactions to mosquito bites, so, for her, it's "stronger than strong reactions ) And, I'm then aware of changes in behavior or symptoms in the context of those recordings. I've not encountered it, yet, but if I find a tick biting me or my kids, I'm going to urgent care to have them remove. It seems that UC will prescribe abx after tick bites, regardless of type, engorgement, time on or rash.
Posts: 252 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic