posted
I'm getting FAT! And I'm not even eating a lot of calories.
I tried to do the thyroid medication but it makes me nervous and have headaches. I'll report that into the doctor on Monday, so maybe there's another medication I can be put on.
This is making me feel really bad about myself, though, as if I wasn't already!
Is there any advice on this problem?
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- First: You may need MORE good food, actually. If you are not consuming enough calories, you won't have the calories to burn calories.
Remember to embrace patience and compassion. Don't judge yourself or even judge "FAT!" as weight gain -- an increase in adipose tissue -- is a SYMPTOM, just as a headache is a symptom. There is no room for judgement, no need to fall into the societal garbage heap. You don't have to accept the bias.
Heading right to the causes:
* Treat infection
* Support endocrine system
* Support the liver to help decrease toxins that increase inflammation and edema
* Enjoy plenty of good, flavorful and nutritious foods in the right amounts
* Get just the right amount of non-aerobic exercise. Tai Chi, Qi Gong, Pilates, walking . . . all good.
* Love yourself. With the understanding of the complex processes this involves, that becomes easier.
You may have to just be more patient as infection is addressed - as long as you eat the very best nutritious foods in the right amounts, and get assessed for endocrine disruptions by a LLMD - as only a LL doctor will know enough about about lyme changes so much about the way the body handles weight.
Inflammation causes a lot of what may appear as fat. But the stress hormones are mostly to blame.
Lyme is just one of many stealth infections that can cause either loss (early on) or gain (usually later). Whichever, adrenal support is key to normalizing that. (With the assumption that everyone already has a healthful eating plan).
This book is specific to lyme and other chronic stealth infections. The author discusses the endocrine connection and effects of STRESS on a person with such infections. You can read customer reviews and look inside the book at this link to its page at Amazon.
The Potbelly Syndrome: How Common Germs Cause Obesity, Diabetes, And Heart Disease (Paperback) - 2005
by Russell Farris and Per Marin, MD, PhD
==================
Remember that lyme really messes up the HPA axis (Hypothalamus/pituitary/adrenal network). The pituitary has much to do with weight/growth. Mess up any part of the endocrine system and other parts suffer, too.
. . . It seems likely that these bacterial species could serve as biological indicators of a developing overweight condition.
Of even greater interest, and the subject of future research, is the possibility that oral bacteria may participate in the pathology that leads to obesity. . . .
================
ADRENAL SUPPORT can make a difference so as to minimize the cortisol damage.
Cordyceps is recommend here:
This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:
Reminder here: "stress" does not mean to imply a weak or whimpy personality or lack of willpower or character. Stress - is a very serious medical condition stemming from the "stress" infection takes on the body.
Adrenal support is absolutely essential in addition to treating infection(s).
Still, as long as good self-care and non-aerobic exercise is part of our life, until infections are cleared, weight loss may not be possible. For many with infection-caused weight gain, along with good self-care, when the infections were adequately treated, the weight was fast to follow by dropping off the radar.
The "Potbelly" book as several startling examples of that with lyme and Cpn patients. -
"Bell's Palsy of the Gut" and Other GI Manifestations of Lyme and Associated Diseases
PRACTICAL GASTROENTEROLOGY
by Virginia T. Sherr, MD - April 2006
Excerpt:
. . . Another borrelial cause of massive increases in abdominal girth associated with "gasless" bloating may cause diagnostic confusion. Unrelated to gut symptoms from Lyme's disruption of the body's internal "wiring," Bb-inflicted polyradiculopathies of T7- 12 (nerve root inflammations) may result in paralysis of external abdominal muscles such as the rectus abdominus.
This in turn can also lead to the appearance, not the reality, of extensive bloating.
No exercise "crunches" will alleviate this distention even for a previously well-toned individual. Antibiotic treatment for borreliosis may resolve this symptom (45, 46) . . . .
=======================================
SCROLL DOWN to find this article, just below the opening image:
Bartonella, Babesia, Indoor Mold and Obesity (by Dr. J.S.)
- Scroll down for illustrations and photos.
====================
Don't be saddened or scared by the photos, as shocking as they are, this should be seen as a medical condition.
Know that treating infections and supporting the body can change things - it just may take a while so patience and self-understanding and love are vital.
Be sure to have only the kindest self-talk. Forget judgements and forget everything you thought you knew about body size. Focus on inner health and the outside will catch up when the inside is better.
A gluten-free, dairy-free diet often helps, by the way - for many reasons. And do be sure to eat well. Eat enough. Do not starve as that makes weight gain worse. Enjoy a variety healthful, delicious and nutritious foods.
Stephen Perrine, author of book: The New American Diet
``Obesogens'' - chemicals that make you fat
Lists: Pesticides, Bovine artifical hormones in beef, stuff in plastic resin lining of cans (BPA) . . .
==================================
I have some objections to a few things he says:
He recommends some organic foods ands that is good. However, he's wrong about conventional bananas, they can absorb chemicals inside to the fruit.
He recommended tuna in pouches ? Oh, no....mercury is high in tuna and it's cooked inside the plastic pouch - not good.
Grass fed beef is best (it's even at Costco),
==============================
HEAVY METALS can also contribute to weight gain.
==============================
Search: endocrine disruptors
You can learn how all plastics, including plastic water bottles can cause weight gain - along with scented products and household chemicals, nail polish, hair dye, etc. can contribute not only to obesity but also to other medical conditions. -
[ 10-02-2010, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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posted
- Exercise is important, but not aerobic exercise. Regarding safety measures for those with infections: -----------------------------------------
Treatment Guidelines, 16th edition, October, 2008 Joseph J. Burrascano, Jr., M.D.
Page 20:
. . . If treatment can be continued long term, then a remarkable degree of recovery is possible.
However, attention must be paid to all treatment modalities for such a recovery - not only antibiotics, but rehab and exercise programs, nutritional supplements, enforced rest, low carbohydrate, high fiber diets, attention to food sensitivities, avoidance of stress, abstinence from caffeine and alcohol, and absolutely no immunosuppressants, even local doses of steroids (intra-articular injections, for example). . . .
* Page 27 for SUPPORTIVE THERAPY & the CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES
Page 31:
LYME DISEASE REHABILITATION
Despite antibiotic treatments, patients will NOT return to normal unless they exercise, so therefore an aggressive rehab program is absolutely necessary. It is a fact that a properly executed exercise program can actually go beyond the antibiotics in helping to clear the symptoms and to maintain a remission.
Although the scientific basis for the benefits of exercises is not known, there are several reasonable theories.
It is known that Bb will die if exposed to all but the tiniest oxygen concentrations. If an aggressive exercise program can increase tissue perfusion and oxygen levels, then this may play a role in what is being seen.
Also, during aggressive exercise, the core body temperature can rise above 102 degrees; it is known that B. burgdorferi is very heat sensitive. Perhaps it is the added tissue oxygenation, or higher body temperature, or the combination that weakens the Lyme Borrelia, and allows the antibiotics and our defenses to be more effective.
Regular exercise-related movements can help mobilize lymph and enhance circulation. In addition,there is now evidence that a carefully structured exercise program may benefit T-cell function: this function will depress for 12 to 24+ hours after exercise, but then rebound.
This T-cell depression is more pronounced after aerobics which is why aerobics are not allowed. The goal is to exercise intermittently, with exercise days separated by days of total rest, including an effort to have plenty of quality sleep.
The trick is to time the exercise days to take advantage of these rebounds. For an example, begin with an exercise day followed by 3 to 5 rest days; as stamina improves, then fewer rest days will be needed in between workouts.
However, because T-cell functions do fall for at least one day after aggressive exercises, be sure to never exercise two days in a row. Finally, an in intermittent exercise program, properly executed, may help to reset the HPA axis more towards normal.
On the following page is an exercise prescription that details these recommendations.
This program may begin with classical physical therapy if necessary. The physical therapy should involve massage, heat, ultrasound and simple range of motion exercises to relieve discomfort and promote better sleep and flexibility.
Ice (vasoconstriction) and electrical stimulation (muscle spasm and trauma) should not be used!
The program must evolve into a graded, ultimately strenuous exercise program that consists of a specific regimen of non-aerobic conditioning- see below.
Have the patient complete a gentle hour of prescribed exercise, then go home, have a hot bath or shower, than try to take a nap. Initially, patients will need this sleep, but as they recover, the exercise will energize them and then a nap will no longer be needed.
NOTE: a cardiac stress test may be necessary prior to exercising to ensure safety. -------------
Page 32:
LYME REHAB-PHYSICAL THERAPY PRESCRIPTION
. . . (there is a P.T. prescription all set to fill out here) . . .
Excerpt:
PROGRAM:
1. Aerobic exercises are NOT allowed, not even low impact variety, until the patient has recovered.
2. Conditioning: work to improve strength and reverse the poor conditioning that results from Lyme, through a whole-body exercise program, consisting of light calisthenics and/or resistance training, using light resistance and many repetitions.
This can be accomplished in exercise classes called "stretch and tone", or "body sculpture", or can be achieved in the gym with exercise machines or carefully with free weights (see cautions above).
3. Each session should last one hour. A gentle hour is preferable to a strenuous half-hour. If the patient is unable to continue for the whole hour, then decrease the intensity to allow him/her to do so.
4. Exercise no more often than every other day. The patient may need to start by exercising every 4th or 5th day initially, and as abilities improve, work out more often, but NEVER two days in a row. The nonexercise days should be spent resting.
5. This whole-body conditioning program is what is required to achieve wellness. A simple walking program will not work, and simply placing the patient on a treadmill or an exercise bike is not acceptable (except very briefly, as part of a warm-up), as aerobics can be damaging and must be avoided. . . .
From Dr. Bruno's "Fainting and Fatigue" in the Spring 1996 CFIDS Chronicle
Post-polio expert Dr. Richard Bruno points out that physical over-activity is the biggest cause of post-polio symptoms. [3]
Excerpt:
``when mice infected with Coxsackie B3 were forced to swim in a warm pool, the virulence of the virus was drastically augmented.
In fact, viral replication was augmented 530 times. This did horrendous things to the animals' hearts. We all know that to play squash with the flu can lead to heart attacks.
Much the same danger can be courted by undertaking hard exercise with M.E. (CFS).'' - End quote.
==============
See the post about brain hypoperfusion (and how aerobic exercise making that worse for CFS patients) from the SPECT details from the Nightingale group. This thread also talks about POTS, etc.:
Believe it or not, toxic free radical molecules and oxidation by-products are produced whenever you exercise. . . .
==============
GOOD MOVES:
Tai Chi, Qi Gong, some kinds of Yoga and Pilates routines . . . strength training . . . walking . . . maybe slow biking . . . water movement (Tai Chi in water is very nice) . . . whatever brings you joy of movement while safely supporting your body. Do what you love. Dancing can be good. Just not at top speed. -
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posted
Wow. You rock! I'm going to print all of this out. I noticed the adrenal support --- I'm currently on synthetic support for adrenals. I've noticed some progress with that in the area of fatigue but I'm only 2-3 months into treatment, so I understand this just takes time. And I have so much more to learn!
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I apologize for peppering you with so many links. Body size has been a symptom that I've had to study and I offer you my research on that topic so that you don't have to spend so much time on finding the links. There is a lot here because it is such a complex situation.
And what's been considered above still stops short. Just focus on taking the very best care of yourself as you can. That is what matters. Your LLMD should be able to guide you with all this. You may also want to seek out a LL ND (naturopathic doctor). -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- I recall saying good sleep matters with weight control and adrenals but don't think I included this thread in the sets above. Many sleep Rx are hard on the liver and contribute to weight gain. Some other choices - and behavior clues: --------------
posted
Oh no, you didn't pepper me. I truly appreciate it all!
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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Keebler
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posted
- Do you want a list of good cookbooks? -
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Oh trust me, you can kill yourself exercising, dieting and basically selling your soul, but some people just have a killer time losing weight (or gaining) when Lyme Disease is in the picture. In my case all my numbers for everything are great and I've treated everything organ wise and hormone wise.
I still gain weight fast and have a "pot belly" -- although I work my ass off to keep the weight down so most people don't notice it.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- nellers,
you said: " . . . currently on synthetic support for adrenals . . . ."
Is this under the guidance of a LLMD or LL ND? Some Rx can contribute to weight gain. You may want to look over the manufacturer's page for what you are taking.
While lyme patients are not supposed to take prednisone, before being diagnosed, some were prescribed that by doctors who did not know better. Predinsone may cause a weight gain that can be nearly impossible to correct, even when that is removed. It did in my case (and it also made lyme much worse by the time I got to a LL doctor for proper diagnosis).
I assume (?) you are on LOW-DOSE Cortef, though, as that is what is normally prescribed for lyme patients for whom the adrenal supplements were not enough. Other hormone Rx can pose problems for lyme patients. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I would sure love a list of cookbooks, or any books about eating healthy. I've done the Candida diet before, long before I got sick, and I'm trying to fit along those same guidelines now but I'm unsure how healthy that is long term?
And yes, that is under the advice of my LLMD. My cortisol was low and I was showing the "classic" signs of being deficient.
I wasn't aware of the problems with Lyme patients and medications. I'm on 10mg (two pills). Though I suppose I could switch over to the natural adrenal supplement soon. I'll talk with my LLMD about that at my next appointment at the end of November.
I'd like to go as natural as possible with my treatment. I'm on medication for cortisol and something else that goes along with your cortisol levels (it can be low when your cortisol is low)... please forgive my Lyme brain, I can't think!
I was on the natural Thyroid but it was making me nervous and giving me a headache, so I'm off until I can talk to my doctor about it.
They want me to do testosterone but I've yet to start that. I'm having such a hard time with herx's from the ABX that I'm trying to just go slowly with everything.
I'm also on Nystatin but they want to move me onto Diflucan because I've got the yeast on my tongue and other indicators that it's throughout my body and not just in my gut.
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
I'm slowly easing back onto that diet. I was on it before I knew I had Lyme, because I knew I had a yeast problem, and I lost about 25 pounds in 6 weeks! (this was before all the medication I'm taking now, and before I was showing so many symptoms of Lyme)
I'm easing back on, though, because I know I've got yeast issues... even with the anitfungal medication I'm taking.
I've taken all sugar out of my diet but now need to cut out the rest that isn't allowed on the diet. I've got major bloating, so I know that is a yeast problem...
But, even having said all of that, I've never had a weight gain issue like this. Considering that I'm not getting too many calories.
Ahhh the mysteries of a body! Until I got sick I had really no understanding of how complex and amazing how bodies really are.
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
nellers.....nothing constructive to say other than i have put so much weight on throughout this......often call myself fat these days......but i will look into the anti yeast diet.....just wanted to say I know how you feel......
-------------------- Oct 09 Positive CDC Western Blot Jan 10 Positive Babesia Duncani Jan 10 Cd57 28 Mar 10 EBV, IgM, IgG HHV-6 IgG Posts: 739 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Thank you, Florence1! It always helps to know others can understand where I'm at right now. HUGS to you too.
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Nellers,
I know perception can vary but when I see your photo in an introductory thread over in general, I do not see a woman who is at all overweight. You might want to check your mirrors.
Now, you may weigh more lately but, again, the photo - just taken yesterday - shows a very slim and trim person. So whatever changes you have observed obviously bother you but, my dear, FAT! is not showing in that photo.
If there are changes to the muscle tone, you might consider weight training as outlined in Dr. B's guidelines.
And, you never said exactly what Rx you are on for adrenals but be sure to check to see if that causes weight gain. Check all your meds for that.
Eating enough protein will also help with muscles toning. But also be sure to get enough healthy calories. Starving will boomerang.
THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTION . . . - 20 pages
Anura V. Kurpad - Institute of Population Health & Clinical Research, Bangalore, India 129. Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148.
Excerpt:
" . . . In general, the amount of EXTRA protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . ."
- Full article at link (or google the title if it does not go through).
. . . The Pilates method seeks to increase the strength, flexibility and control of the body. . . . -
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posted
Just wanted to say I know how you feel! I have been slowly gaining weight over the last year despite not doing anything different. Still eating really healthy. I have only gained 10 pounds so far but I am not used to having that extra 10 pounds on me...mostly belly and hips. AND my clothes are too tight now.
Anyhow...my thyroid levels just came back low as well a few days ago. I would like to treat this naturally if possible. I know helping the adrenals can often help the thyroid too. My adrenals are also an issue. So I am going to try to work on both naturally if possible.
Have you been tested for iodine deficiency? Sometimes just being deficient in iodine can cause thyroid problems because the thyroid needs iodine to function properly.
I have heard that sometimes supplementing with iodine is all you need to get the thyroid back to normal. That definitely isn't the case for everyone though but may be something worth looking into.
I am currently investigating that myself.
Take Care! Pam :-)
PS...if that is you in the link to that photo you look great! Try not to be too hard on yourself. Although I know that can be hard when you are putting on unwanted pounds.
-------------------- Sick since 10/2001. Tested CDC positive for Lyme 10/2008 through Quest and Igenex. Started treatment 1/2009 with LLMD. Lyme, Erichilosis, Chlamydophila Pneumoniae, Q Fever, Strep Syndrome and probably a few others I am forgetting. Posts: 451 | From Virginia | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
If I took a picture of my stomach, you'd know what I mean. It is huge, bloated and I look pregnant. I wear thick, large sweaters to help hide it. I'm not overweight but my stomach is fat Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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posted
Pam, I haven't been tested but when I had a ctscan done several months ago they had a iodine dye and I had an allergic reaction to it.
Posts: 256 | From Texas | Registered: Jun 2010
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METALLlC BLUE
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quote:Originally posted by nellers78: If I took a picture of my stomach, you'd know what I mean. It is huge, bloated and I look pregnant. I wear thick, large sweaters to help hide it. I'm not overweight but my stomach is fat
I have the same symptom.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
oh let's not even go there!!!
i'm perfect -- perfectly round that is.
i've gained from 127 to about 195. i have a horrible time.
the only time i loose weight is when i eat only meat and veggies, and then i get sick and stay so hungry... i practically starve tho.
lyme has really messed me up, both physically and emotionally.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
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- Liver stress can cause bloating. So can a stressed pancreas or spleen. Adrenal dysfunction causes belly bloating. All that goes along with lyme.
Bloating is not necessarily fat - it may or may not be but inflammation is most often the culprit. Support measures can help.
Be sure to tell your LLMD, though, so organ levels can be checked. -
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Keebler
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- Endocrine disruptors - from consuming petroleum and petroleum byproducts - and other chemicals - can add weight, especially at the belly.
Scented products of all kinds (especially candles) are just one kind of "endocrine disruptor" (just google that term for more detail).
Endocrine disruptors are likely a huge part of the recent swell in obesity. Oh, yes, it's not the whole picture but it's an integral part as well as a contributor to cancers, mood disorders, ADHD, etc.
Be sure to avoid plastic water bottles or any plastic bottle or jar that is not BPA-free. Glass is best. Stainless Steel is also good but some have nickel allergies and that might make stainless steel tricky as it contains nickel.
FIsh in SOME cans are the worst as they are cooked or placed hot into the can. Heat makes plastic more dangerous.
Fish in a plastic pouch is a very dangerous product as it's cooked in the plastic pouch and then cooled.
And there is NO safe plastic for any microwave. Ever. None. Glass or ceramic only (but earthenware or clay may contain metals so not good for the microwave).
I just wrote this for a thread about coconut milk and am too tired to edit for a more general note but you can get the idea here - as it also applies to all foods. ---------------
To consider: the lining of the can, box or carton.
The lining of the can - if canned coconut milk is used. Most cans are lined with a plastic that contains high amounts of BPA, a chemical that is a severe endocrine disruptor.
I was reading just yesterday that, in Australia, there is concern over BPA in their coconut milk brands as well as a new awareness of an even more toxic kind of BPA. The article had a list with amounts and it was staggering. I wish I could recall where I read that but have no recall - other than it was from a link directly to an Australian news agency.
Metal cans without a lining have their own problems with aluminum levels, etc.
The sealed boxes on the store shelves also may contain BPA but most certainly have some teflon in them and that is not good for us at all.
There is a refrigerated cartoon by one company now and may have some wax but I've not investigated what that might be. Hopefully, not any kind of petroleum product.
Coconut oil in plastic jars also pose a risk from the petroleum products that include BPA, among other things. A glass jar is best for coconut oil. A dark jar is better than a clear jar.
Of course, from the earth's foot print, glass takes a huge amount of power to manufacture and recycling also consumes a lot of power so glass, while clearly better to contain our foods, is not low on the energy consumption scale.
Best: Fresh coconuts. The original packaging of food is usually the best.
Nut milks, too, are easy to make with fresh nuts, water, a blender (hearing protection) and a strainer. -
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TerryK
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posted
Biotoxins are a huge issue for lyme patients and a big reason why so many are overweight.
Many hormones get messed up that cause rapid weight gain and an inability to lose it. Two that are very important are MSH and Leptin.
I have a big problem with weight and don't eat anymore than when I was thin. My Leptin is over 3 X's normal and MSH was so kow it could not be measured.
There is a product called irvingia that I'm trying and a few by precision herbs that I've recently started called "MSH" and "Leptin sense".
Bartonella is also said to be a big cause of weght gain. I have been treated for it and while some of my symptoms got better, weight was not one of them.
As already mentioned, systemic yeast is a big cause of weight gain. I was able to lose weight at one time on some strong prescription anti-fungals. Doesn't seem to help at all now.
Some of my weight gain is fluid retention. Seemslike there are a number of lyme patients that have weight gain due to fluid retention that comes and will not go.
I'm on thyroid meds but they have not helped with weight loss at all.
Inflammation is another big issue caused by biotoxins which cause weight gain.
Terry I'm not a doctor
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TerryK
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posted
Forgot to mention that sleep apnea (not unusual in lyme patients) can cause weight gain.
ALSO Less sleep can cause weight gain. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/05/sleep_weight_gain.html "Women who slept for six hours were 12 percent more likely to have major weight gain and six percent more likely to become obese compared with women who slept 7 hours a night."
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