Topic: What Can You Tell Me About Quinolinic Acid?
Hambone
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posted
I read an article on Dr. M's (from Seattle) website. I will paste the article below.
I truly believe I have this issue.
Dr. M says there is a protocol for lowering this acid in the brain, but she doesn't say how on the website.
One of the things that jumped out at me was how she described it as the feeling of battery acid in your brain, and I have been crying about this for 5 years, and only got funny looks from every doctor I told this to.
She said when the spirochetes get in the brain, an inflammation response happens, and that in an inflammed brain, tryptophan converts into this acid instead of serotonin ( like it's supposed to ).
Does anybody know more about this acid?
And how to lower it?
Thanks. Below is the article. I will space it for easier reading.
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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Hambone
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Systemic Inflammation and Cytokines in Lyme Disease
Historically, the defining features of inflammation include: rubor (redness), calor (warmth), tumor (swelling), and dolor (pain), and there is a distinction between acute and chronic inflammation.
Acute inflammation compromises the early response to an injurious agent and is a defensive response that fosters repair of the damaged site.
Chronic inflammation results from stimuli that are persistently damaging to tissues. Inflammation is a way that the body reacts to infection, irritation, or other injury and is considered a nonspecific immune response. The inflammatory response directs immune cells to the site of injury or infection and is manifested by an increased blood supply coupled with vascular permeability.
Microorganisms (i.e., bacteria, viruses, fungi) are then engulfed by neutrophils and macrophages (types of white blood cell) in an attempt to contain the infection to a smaller tissue space.
However, Lyme Disease can involve multiorgan systems rendering an inflammatory state as a more generalized condition. Proinflammatory cytokines (chemical messenger molecules) are released by immune cells in response to a pathogen which in turn causes inflammation in the joints, muscles, heart, brain, gastrointestinal system and urinary system.
Spirochetes have an affinity for both collagen tissue and tissues that contains fatty acids (i.e., the brain), and bury deep within these substrates to avoid detection by the hosts' immune system.
This is one of the reasons why capturing the DNA (PCR test) of these microorganisms remains difficult because they simply don't dwell in the blood. Hence, measuring the immune system's antibody response to the pathogen(s) is the best choice for demonstrating exposure and infection.
Inflammation becomes particularly concerning when the brain is involved. Microglial cells (immune cells of the brain) become activated in response to an insult or injury and cause localized inflammation.
When spirochetes reach the brain, an immune response is activated and inflammation occurs. Patient's experience the feeling of swelling in their head or eyes or pressure in their head. This may also be the result of increased intracranial pressure secondary to infection and inflammation.
When the microglial cells of the brain become activated, a particular brain biochemical pathway known as the ``kynurenine pathway'' becomes involved and the production of a highly toxic molecule known as ``quinolinic acid' results from the metabolism of the amino acid tryptophan.
Quinolinic acid can be thought of as equivalent to ``battery acid'' in the brain where it literally causes neuronal destruction through increased free radical production as is observed in Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's Disease, and ALS.
There are many natural therapies to combat inflammation and help minimize the effects of quinolinic acid in the brain. This will result in less brain fog, confusion, a recovery of memory and function, and greater mood stability.
I have been working with this paradigm for quite sometime with great success. The general idea is to DECREASE inflammation so that tissue damage is minimized and nutritive healing can take place.
An analogy here is the following: when a person becomes heated and angered, they are less likely to receive the opinion of an opponent.
Likewise, when tissues are inflamed, they are less likely to properly receive and utilize nutrients, water, and metabolize medications. In essence, inflamed tissues are unable to perform adequate metabolic functions that afford organs health.
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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Buhner discusses this in the Healing Lyme book. The herb resveratrol (Japanese knotweed source) is used to block the conversion.
Hubby was tested for quinolinic acid once and had elevated levels in his blood -- MetaMetrix lab as part of the ION panel.
He used to wake up with seizure like spells every night an hour or so after he took his 5HTP to help with sleep. After adding in the resveratrol he had much less problems with this symptom. He eventually replenished his stores of serotonin and no longer uses 5HTP and l-tryptophan for sleep. Uses passion flower tincture instead.
Be sure to start out with just 1 or 2 capsules/tablets of resveratrol daily -- do not start with the 4 capsules 4 times per day as Buhner suggests. Even with the good herbs and supplements your body needs time to adjust and rebalance.
I remember hubby was so dizzy from his first resveratrol tablet I think we waited almost a week before trying it again. Can't remember but I think I probably increased the dose by 1 or 2 tablets daily over several weeks.
Bea Seibert
I personally think this is one of the reasons many tickborne patients do not do well on SSRI's. Those meds try to keep serotonin active longer and thus more neurotoxic quinolinic acid could be produced.
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Carol in PA
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Systemic enzymes will reduce inflammation in the tissues.
I have been having a feeling of pressure in my head for 30 years, headaches and migraines. This was significantly reduced with systemic enzymes.
Resveratrol is a potent antioxidant that may affect quinolinic acid. Bea Seibert has posted about this in the past.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hambone
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quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: I personally think this is one of the reasons many tickborne patients do not do well on SSRI's. Those meds try to keep serotonin active longer and thus more neurotoxic quinolinic acid could be produced.
Thank you, Bea. I believe this, too.
When I was so sick for so long and no doctor could tell me why, they ALWAYS gave me SSRI samples.
And every single time, it felt like acid was eating my brain when I'd take them. I'd never make it more than a week before stopping and wanting to die.
I was told over and over I wasn't giving it a chance. But if I kept taking them, I was sure they would kill me.
What does Resveratrol do? Reduce inflammation?
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Hambone
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Thanks Carol. I had a nutrients test done last summer and I was low in Selenium. This is interesting.
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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Hambone
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quote:Originally posted by Carol in PA: Systemic enzymes will reduce inflammation in the tissues.
I have been having a feeling of pressure in my head for 30 years, headaches and migraines. This was significantly reduced with systemic enzymes.
What kind of systemic enzymes?
Is this the same as food enzymes?
I took a brand of enzymes from Dr. Mercola and they made me feel awful Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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17hens
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The thing that's helped me the most for this pressure/pain feeling is RNA, Rhibonucleic Acid, a brain protector.
posted
I know this is an old post but how fascinating. Just starting to learn about QUIN and what I can do to avoid it. Thankfully, I've been one to eat 2 Brazil nuts/day even before I realized I had Lyme. Though I don't think it has saved me yet. The above link for RNA doesn't seem to work. Any other thoughts on where to get it or other supplements that helped with this? My doc wants me to start on liposomal oregano and Artemisinin with Namenda and Naltrexone. Thanks.
-------------------- MM Posts: 15 | From Bethesda, MD | Registered: May 2017
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dbpei
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Yes, I agree. This is valuable information. I have complained for the past few years of the feeling like I have ginger-ale circulating around my skull. I wonder if this could be an overabundance of quinolinic acid.
I also often feel like my head is a short wave radio being tuned because of the degree of tinnitus in both ears and ear pressure changes.
I know Tom Grier has written about this. If only my lyme brain could find the articles. I wonder if there is any relationship between this and ammonia in the brain as well.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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