momindeep
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7618
posted
Question...a friend of mine...in his early sixties...active (contractor) and has a history of Lyme. He gets "bouts" of being symptomatic, although I think he is basically symtomatic all of the time...and when he gets extremely symptomatic the drs give him a small course of doxy and he seems to rebound somewhat to where he can function.
His wife revealed to me that he has told his dr many times that when he drinks beer he feels so much better...not to get a buzz...that's not it, he feels physically better...it is like a medicine to him.
I remember reading a long while ago about something to do with fermentation but can't recall what or if there is something about the composition of beer that is helpful to Lyme people somehow?
I told her to make some saurkraut and feed that to him on a daily basis and see if that is helpful too...just to see if there is a connection.
Any helpful replies will be appreciated!
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I'm actually a bit surprised to read this, as I thought most of us with Lyme don't handle alcohol well, because of liver detox challenges. I recall my face went white early on when I tried to drink - maybe about three years into this - and I could never drink again.
As your friend can drink, I wonder if he's a great detoxer, or if he's able to treat effectively such that he doesn't have much of a bacterial load in his system.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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momindeep
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
robin...I know!...it IS surprising that he can drink. My daughter cannot drink (I think there is one thing she tolerates well but in limited quantities)...
So, that is a mystery in it self.
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Please read in a tone of caring - of discovery. "this" does "that" sort of thing. This is not intended at all to judge.
Really. It's just that I've learned so much about the liver that I'm shocked. So much detail is not out there for us to learn. ANY liver damage can ruin quality of life, forever.
Just as we are not being told all we should about how acetaminophen can damage the liver (even just one dose), we also are not being taught about what happens with alcohol in a body with so many variables.
I don't want to see any more unnecessary suffering. It's just that basic.
Not just a herx but damage to the liver, the brain, the nerves - even if someone is one of the few (with lyme) who does not get clobbered with a herx from a beer, it can do damage.
A temporary boost (calm mood, relieve pain, boost social excitement, etc.) for some symptoms may be something a few might see - but it's still very dangerous to drink ANY alcohol when dealing with lyme (whether or not in treatment for it).
The liver can be absolutely and permanently damaged by lyme (and the other infections that go with it).
Alcohol, itself, is very hard on the liver -- and the brain cells (but we don't hear that part of it in the media).
The kinds of brain damage that can occur with lyme can come years after the initial onset of illness. It's just inviting the odds to go against for later brain disease to drink when dealing with toxic infections.
The treatment, itself, can be very hard on the liver and kidneys, too. Adding alcohol to that can make successful treatment slip from our grasp. And, combining alcohol with Rx can create a time bomb.
I certainly understand why drinking is attractive. But we have to find other ways to achieve those same desires & outcomes. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
the times when he takes doxycycline when he flares up, is doing nothing more than sending the lyme back into cyst form. Beer is a depressant it relaxes a person , so maybe that is it.Or the hops that are used to make the beer ,who knows
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- sapphire's reminder is very important - and it's true that doxycycline, alone, can make the spirochetes go deeper into the body and go into the cyst form to evade the treatment - and came back later with an army, so to speak.
Topic: replication within cystic forms of lyme -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- I thought I had it saved in my file notes but can't find it.
Most (if not all) LLMD firmly inform their patients that alcohol is to be totally avoided during treatment (and even up to 6 months to a full year after reaching a good remission). -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
posted
- Page 27 (from the set below):
CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED IF LYME SYMPTOMS ARE TO BE PERMANENTLY CLEARED:
1. Not allowed to get behind in sleep, or become overtired.
2. No caffeine or other stimulants that may affect depth or duration of sleep, or reduce or eliminate naps.
Advanced Topics in Lyme Disease (Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses
Dr. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines (2008) - 37 pages
------------ As important as any supplements, sections regarding self-care:
Go to page 27 for SUPPORTIVE THERAPY & the CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES
and also pages 31-32 for advice on a safe, non-aerobic exercise plan and physical rehabilitation. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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momindeep
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posted
I realize some of these things. There will be no opportunity for me to tell him not to drink beer...it will fall on deaf ears I am 100 percent certain.
I knew in my heart it is a bad thing, but was hoping against the odds that there might be some medicinal aspect unknown to me.
There isn't ąnd I cannot change that...sigh.
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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momindeep
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Oh and thank you everyone for helping...and Keebler, the voice of reason.
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- I know that some spouses just don't want to hear anyting from their mates. For some reason, the caring reason & tone seems lost to their ears and they interpret it in all the wrong ways. It can be a very rough thing to communicate.
What if you share the details here - they are not YOUR thoughts but those of a top LLMD who just wants to see success for patients. Especially Dr. B's self-care guidelines? I'm surprised his LLMD has not discussed this with him.
Still, if there is no way he's to give it up, can he see a LL ND (naturopathic doctor) for good liver support that might, in some way, help protect his liver & brain cells?
Every ND I've ever known is very understanding. If someone just can't do something they will be understanding and try their very best to offer other ways to help.
I'm not saying that a supplement can be taken to totally change things but liver support could make a huge difference in his liver and mitochondria longevity:
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
How to find a LL ND links here, too.
NDs know many ways to help relieve tension and address other symptoms for which I can see where one might turn to a beer, especially tension & pain relief. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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momindeep
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posted
The problem here is that he has no LLMD and never will. He goes to our tiny in-town clinic which is severely in the dark ages concerning lyme...and doxy helps when he gets really ill and it picks him back up for a good while...sooo in his mind it is a very helpful regiment...get sick...get doxy and be okay for a year or two.
There is NO talking to him...or his wife who has had lyme herself (one of the few lucky ones that early treatment healed her) and their son who had lyme 2 years ago and they did not heed my warnings and he still is not and never will be well...because they refuse to listen.
I tried, people, I really did...I can honestly say I gave it my very best.
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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momindeep
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And I gave it my very best because she is my friend and I love her and I don't want them to go through what I did with my daughter.
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
You are right, momindeep.. YOU TRIED. That is all you can do.
PS on the alcohol .. long term usage can also cause calcium to leech from your bones. Then you have MANY more problems to deal with.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Kudzuslipper
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How often does he drink? My first thought in reading your post was allergies. Food allergies can actually make you feel good at first, Almost euphoric, before they make you feel chronically achy. Beer is not only fermented, but made from wheat. Both common allergens. Not to mention alcohol has a temporary calming effect. So if he drinks every night til he gets really symptomatic, goes on doxy, stays off beer while on doxy, feels better, has a beer, feels great, so has another, and starts the cycle again. I do this cycle sometimes with potatoes and wheat. I get away with it, so I keep eating them, and them I'm all inflamed again. You'd think I would learn!
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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Lymedin2010
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momindeep, I know the feeling of trying. I try my hardest with my family members.
Take my mother-in-law for instance. I was educating her & telling her the dangers and all the stories that I have come across locally. Trying to make her see how big of an issue it has become.
She had 2-3 symptoms at the time & I also had them. I told her to be careful and monitor herself & my wife said that I should not be scaring people like that & that she DOES NOT HAVE LYME!
Two years later (this year) my M-I-L lands in the hospital with about a dozen Lyme symptoms. I had every single one she had and then some. Again I explained it to her & this time she actually listened. She has symptoms come and go, like tiredness and migrating pains, but does not feel like she will land in the hospital.
She did not even finish watching the "Under Our Skin" DVD that I sent her.
I also talk about here in another thread that I made. She and I are the only ones who don't drink & are the sickest. My mother & father drink big time when their mood hits them....read the post.
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