lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i just found out a very old friend has stage 3 (of 4) liver disease. its not cancer. but is progressive and fatal
very sad...but i am having trouble knowing how to react.
years ago she hurt my feelings very badly by talking to others about me and how there was "always something wrong with me...if its not her foot its her hand"
that was said to a group when i left to go to the bathroom...i overheard it on my way back.
i left and we didnt speak for years.
somehow we did begin speaking...but were never that close. i tried-tried to take the high road...but i could never be honest with her ..always had to hide my lyme stuff like i do from the rest of my family.
so she is going on one of those walks to make money for her disease. 3 1/2 miles. i am sad she has a fatal disease.
but how do you compare that to what we are going thru. we arent facing death tomorrow...but it has been over 20 yrs since i could walk 3 1/2 miles i think. now it is often 2 steps...
i dropped the coffe pot the other day-too heavy for me now.
twice this week i couldnt get to sleep before 4 a.m.
it hurts so much to have so much of the world not "get it" about lyme.
they have all these charities for all these diseases and conditions...and where does the money go??? back to ducks ??? and meds??? and NOT to identifying the many who suffer from un-named or disrespected conditions like Bb and all the co's.
in my opinion...more than half of the things they are throwing meds and PT and charity money at is all undiagnosed tick borne complex diseases
i am in such a mess myself right now. moldy house. huge debt. vehicle troubles. and health - cant deny i am on a down hill spiral.
so what do i do? even the act of getting a card is really hard for me. i could send a small check and hand written note. i do feel bad. and can continue taking the high road.
but honestly...when i think back to hearing her say that i still get a stab in my heart.
and - you know...it isnt fair. it just isnt fair to have that stuff recongized and us not.
I AM SO GLAD YOU GUYS ARE THERE ... WHO BUT YOU CAN RELATE TO THIS???
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I hear you. It really does stab us in the heart. It often feels as though NO ONE cares or gets it.
Hang in there, kayak!!
PS .. I have no idea what to suggest regarding your "friend."
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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momindeep
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posted
Continue to take the high road...it is the right thing to do.
Posts: 1512 | From Glenwood City WI | Registered: Jul 2005
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poppy
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posted
I decided some time ago to care as much about other people as they care about me. Saves on the decision making.
There is a name for this...game theory of some kind. And it actually probably makes the world a better place because it does not reward bad behavior.
Not telling you what to do about your situation though.
Posts: 2888 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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BoxerMom
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Member # 25251
posted
Your feelings matter, lp.
If this was a friend who tried to understand you, you would want to support her. If this was a friend who could not comprehend Lyme but was kind to you, you would want to support her.
This is a "friend" who mocked you and your illness. I believe the word these days is "frenemy." Basically, someone who mistreats you but puts on an act of being your friend.
This act is meant to confuse you. You are being sent mixed messages. Of course you are confused.
If I had a nickel for all these people in my life, I'd be a rich woman!
Now you feel guilty because something bad has happened to her and your kind nature makes you want to help. But you also don't want to ignore the fact that she treated you badly when she knew you were in a similar situation.
You are trying to reconcile your conflicting ideas about her. I believe the psychological term is cognitive dissonance.
IMHO, you should ditch the guilt and obligation. Your brain is trying to stick up for you. She hurt your feelings and invalidated your reality. You are not required to reward that with your support.
Is she in a terrible situation? Sure. Does it really have anything to do with you? No.
Will you look bad to other people for not showing obvious support? Who cares. Believe me, if she had negative things to say about you, she was dishing out the same to those other people. Half of them are probably as conflicted as you are.
I married a conflict avoider. Holy Cow! He had me sending "Thank You" cards to people who bullied me! He'd still be doing it if I hadn't decided that people's behavior was THEIR behavior. It really had nothing to do with me.
You have no obligations here. If your sweet nature wants to send a card or donation, just think of her as any sick person in need of support. If you choose not to, you are not a bad person!
Years ago, I had a co-worker with breast cancer. She refused to wear pink ribbons or donate to any cancer research orgs. She had objections to their recommended treatments (she chose alternative) and how they would have spent her money.
I'm sorry your brain is in a quandary. Some people are idiots. Then they get liver disease. And the two aren't even connected!
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
thank you all. i felt a little like a whiner when i began this thread...but you are giving me what i needed to hear and i knew where to come to get it. thank you all so much.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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beaches
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posted
Wow Boxermom, that was an awesome response! I couldn't have said it better myself no matter how hard I would've tried.
That is excellent advice. My favorite line: "Some people are idiots. Then they get liver disease."
And I have to say I admire your coworker with the BC. Good for her for going against the grain.
Kayak, don't feel guilty. You don't owe this person anything.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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randibear
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posted
i feel so sorry for you and i agree, let this person go and relieve yourself of the grief.
i was in almost the exact situation.
he had friends, well i just tagged along, in oklahoma. we spent a couple of days with them periodically. so we go over and play some cards, etc. husband got up to go the bathroom and then they attacked.
these "friends" told me i was a hypochrondriac and needed attention. she was a nurse and chimed in "well you take so many vitamins and unnecessary stuff". they went on and on, "you go to the doctor all the time"...i was speechless. i just sat there and took it!!
really they tore me a new you know what. and the saddest thing was, you got it!! i knew they were getting their information from my brilliant husband!!
i thought they liked me!! but something died in me when they did that and i started seeing them for who they really were.
not long after, she was diagnosed with cirrosis of the liver. they drank like fishes. she was already in stage 3. she later died. we were gone and did not attend the funeral.
i grew to dislike them intensely. couldn't help it. i forced myself to go along with him rather than have a big fight, but now that she's gone he seldom sees or even talks to this man. fine with me.
bottom line -- friends don't attack friends or talk behind their backs. she was not your friend then and is not now. so she's sick, yep, so sorry, but you weren't there when i needed you. cruel yes, but we have to take care of ourselves.
if you don't send a card, so what? you think she'd care, i doubt it.
you have to let people like this go because it will only cause you more grief and pain.
i thought i had friends, like you, but i got my eyes opened real fast. they attacked me like barracudas....
i have no sympathy. all out. the only ones who understand are others who have lyme, like on this board.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I agree - I don't think you owe her anything. Stick with your friends, people who understand or at least make an attempt to understand.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I was thinking it would be very nice of you to pick a sweet card for yourself and stick in a check with the money you would have donated to her cause
and use it to treat yourself to a nice meal out or a new scraf or something to cheer you up, that was not in your tight budget before, mayeb a new coffee machine with a smaller pot that is easier for you to lift
I might do atht and think of it as the right thing to do: you get a treat for yourself now that she did not give you then, some real friendship, and she gets back what she dished out: nothing - then I would let it go and think that all is well now
would have been nicer to exchange gifts but hey, you can't control what other people do, but you can have some self-respect
feel free to
I think it makes the world a better place, for me, because I can then smile when I see that person and think to myself 'I got a nice gift because of you', and for them, because I feel more friednly towards them when I run into them
it's not a mean thing, for me, just a fun thing, I do sometimes in such situations
if she were to ask your forgiveness and then your help, it would be different, in my eyes, but it seems to me like you are being bullied into giving more than is good for you (by her behavior and random facts of life) and something needs to be done to cheer you up and luckily you have the power to do that - give yourself some credit and the financial contribution
just MO
BoxerMom said that much better
and I agree: if you want to support her, I think, you can feel good about that, too, if that is what you chose to do, but you don't have to
-------------------- Persistence, persistence, persistence!!! "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence... Persistence and determination are omnipotent." attributed to Calvin Coolidge Posts: 599 | From USA | Registered: Jun 2011
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Kudzuslipper
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posted
Everyone has said it so well. Just want to give you hugs LP.
Posts: 1728 | From USA | Registered: May 2011
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posted
wow - what an amazing post.. poppy and BoxerMom said it so well..I do know how you feel, people who are nurturers often get left behind and don't get nurtured in return. All we ask for is some respect and understanding and we often don't even get that. Agree w/ BoxerMom and others.. time to move on..(even though it's hard)!
Posts: 394 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2012
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
I'm on my phon and can't cut an and can't cut and paste to remembe what I want to say to all but than but thank you and I just went and bough 40 bab baby trees and I am so happ and forgetting about and forgetting about all the other stuff right now they were so cheap I'm happ I'm going t Digg in th in the dirt while sitting in my wh and just hav and just have fun tomorro or the next I'll I'll deal with the b with the bad stuff
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
You go girl!! You can over time forgive her, but right now take care of yourself. You have suffered enough and don't need someone who takes you down!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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joalo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Just FYI: My dad has had stage 4 kidney disease for at least five years. His doctor told me kidney disease has five stages.
-------------------- Sick since January 1985. Misdiagnosed for 20 years. Tested CDC positive October 2005. Treating since April 2006. Posts: 3228 | From Somewhere west of the Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Kayak, You have an amazingly generous spirit. Forgiveness is a choice. It is for you, not her, so you can cast it away. Not forgotten, but no longer having the power to hurt you.
You can be kind, but you do not have to support her walk.
Have fun gardening. Nature is tremendously healing, I think. And think of what a great, positive contribution to our planet you are making by planting the trees. Enjoy.
-------------------- 'Hope' is a thing with feathers, that perches in the soul-- Emily Dickinson Posts: 160 | From Indiana | Registered: Nov 2012
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Rivendell
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posted
Boy Kayak,
I can relate to this.
I won't go into it, but I appreciate everyones' responses.
I think the meanest thing is to kick someone when they are down.
To Thine Own Self Be True. There are so many levels to that one.
This illness is such an eye opener.
Just take care of yourself and be good to yourself.
We don't have the stamina to try to be saints.
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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hiker53
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posted
lpKayak,
Be good to yourself, but I also belive God wants us to be kind to others. Perhaps just a short note that says you are thinking of her and hoping that God puts His healing hand on her--physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
Perhaps I am saying this due to the sermon I heard yesterday and that I need to take to heart.
"Love one another as God love you."
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8880 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Rivendell
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posted
I believe in being kind to others and having compassion as long as it doesn't turn you into a doormat. And when you are sick, it is so easy to become a doormat.
I'm now using my illness as a gage because I am one of those that wants to help others no matter what they have done to me, but my illness says, no, you don't have the energy for that.
Pray for them, wish them well in your heart.
The card is a good idea, but if it brings back memories which sap you energy and makes you revisit old pain, maybe not.
Those old memories are almost like post-traumatic stress which you don't need right now, so that's why I say see what you can handle first.
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
My first post. We can only control how we respond to things in our life.
You may not be able to walk, but making her a meal and/or visiting with her will probably bring great joy (and maybe) relief to her. As she faces the end of her life, she may be worrying about things she regrets, saying hurtful things to friends. I imagine you will also find peace in reaching out to her, even if she never gets it (your Lyme).
Those of us with Lyme have been fighting many battles for a long time (not to mention the wonderful doctor's trying to help). I imagine this person isn't the only one in your life that can't fathom what you go through. Please let that negativity go. When you are around people who refuse to acknowledge your sickness, do your best to be your best, i.e. kind, as helpful as possible and don't discuss your problems with them. You know who you can talk to about your illness. Others in your life will see your limitations but not hear you discuss them. Perhaps they too, at some point, will become the best they can be and try to assist you. Of course I am an optimist, but stranger things have happened!
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i have to say that for me, the viciousness of the attack and the length of it and the cruelty of the words, did enough damage to our relationship to end it. whatever chance they had at redemption was over.
sometimes too much emotional damage is done and you simply can't rise above it.
for me, that attack was IT...period.
maybe i'm a small person, i don't know, but i think there is a line that when crossed can never be undone. the hurt goes too deeply.
plus the fact that they never ever apologized. i guess they felt i was a "doormat" and they could just attack without repercussions.
sadly, there was one. i feel i moved on but i never forgave them, i just forgot them....
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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OptiMisTick
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posted
[ 05-22-2013, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: OptiMisTick ]
Posts: 1338 | From Above the Clouds | Registered: Nov 2000
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
sunni-i'm not sure how long you have been dealing with lyme but i would not be able to do what you suggest.
when you have been around here longer maybe you will understand.
randi-i totally understand where you are at. and you are not a small person. you have been there for me when i needed it-many times in pms
opti-"What a lovely, long, insightful thread from so many people who cared."
i agree . and i like the way you handle charitable giving too.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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droid1226
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posted
I'd never talk to her again regardless of her situation. That's me though.
beaches
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Member # 38251
posted
Sunni, I don't know how ill you are with these damn diseases, but if someone can't walk, how on earth would you expect her to make a meal or visit with this miserable person?
This isn't a best friend/sister/mother, but a person who discounted and mocked another person with a serious illness, which happens to be tick-borne disease.
And why on earth would someone who was so discounted and mocked in front of others have any interest in bringing ``great joy'' or ``relief'' to such a miserable person? The fact that this person is now sick herself is immaterial.
Kayak IMO is best off spending her precious time finding ways to bring ``great joy'' and ``relief'' to her own self.
And Sunni, I don't get the impression that Kayak is holding on to any negativity.
Randi, I'm with you. Here's the line: ____. Don't cross it. There are just times in life where you have to set absolute boundaries with certain people, especially those who hurt you.
Optimistick, thanks for reminding us that we don't have to give to every cause that crosses our path. And that we don't have infinite resources! The word ``NO'' can be our best friend, I think.
I LOVE the way you handle that cash register thing! For so long, I just gave in to it. It just seems like wherever there's a register, there's a cause. I finally just said to myself, no, I am not obligated to give, just because someone is asking.
I used to also get guilted-out when I received those return address stickers in the mail from charities I never heard of! I used to feel so obligated to give.
Then it dawned on me that they're getting our names from computer-generated lists. And before they sent me those labels, they had no idea whether I'd give or not. So, no more guilt. I use whatever labels these charities wish to send me.
You are a lot more genteel than I am. You offer an explanation. I just say ``no'' these days to store clerks.
Our family and friends know we are selective about charities we give to. And you make an excellent point about how charities use their monies.
You don't want to donate to charities that have an excessive amount of administrative costs. I know there are ways to find that out, but it escapes me at the moment.
Yes, indeed, look at that microscope fundraiser! WOW! That was terrific!
I like what that wise person once told you. What great advice.
Droid, spoken like a guy! And I agree with you!
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
thanks for the support beaches. i have been very busy and in pain...but i have been thinking how i will respoond. it will be late like almost everything i do.
i have some cute little notes right here where i know where they are and the mailman picks mail up at the door and i have stamps.
so i have spent time when i rest thinking of what to say. and it is mostly im sorry for what has happened to her and i wish her the best.
and...for those who read this thread from the beginning...i just finished potting up all the trees. it was easier than putting them in the ground. i put six in the ground and it hurt me for quite awhile and i gave 12 away but i still had a bunch left so i bought soft potting soil and found some pots cheap on craigslist and i think it took me 4 days but they are all happy now and i can put them in the ground 2 or 3 a week so it doesnt hurt me so much.
and the ppl i gave them to loved them so i spread some joy without hurting myself
and playing in the dirt is relaxing and gives me joy. the beautiful weather and music i played helped too!
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Hi kayak, I don't think you even need to respond at this point, but that's just my opinion.
I think it's just enough for you to know that you wish this person the best.
I so admire you for being able to do what you did with the trees! WOW that is awesome! I used to garden so I know the amount of time and effort that took. And I appreciate the level of pain you're in for having done what you did.
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