posted
The links that you posted say that immunization with live vaccines are generally safe for administration to immunocompromised persons, which is the same as my studies stated. I am not sure what your argument is.
Of course, those with impaired humoral or cellular immunity should not get live vaccines, because humoral immune deficiency refers to diseases resulting from impaired antibody production. That manifests itself via antibody deficiency. Of course vaccinating such persons would be unwise, as they have a defective antibody response. Defects in cellular immunity have to do with cell‐mediated responses involving mostly T cells.
I have Hypogammaglobulemia, but I show excellent antibody response to being vaccinated. It involved getting the flu shot and then testing my titers. It was an important part of my treatment to judge how well my system was functioning. I was on Doxycycline for 3 years to keep the recurrent infections away.
For me, being vaccinated stimulated my immune response, and getting sick with those wild type illnesses is much worse than any minor discomfort from a vaccine. I could die if i contracted the flu or pneumonia, so benefit vs risks might be higher for me than most people here.
You are saying that there has been a huge change in the past 25 years, and that there are vaccines on steroids. How then, do you explain that vaccines are more refined than ever, and have less antigens in them than they did 20, 30, 40 years ago? According to your theory, rates should have spiked when vaccination started (small pox had 200 some-odd antigens) and gone down as the total amount of antigens in childhood vaccinations went down (less than the single dose from small pox). The MMR vacccine has not had thimerisol in it since 1999 I think.
If there was a link to autism, it would be easily traceable via a cohort study between non-vaccinated and vaccinated children. No studies have seen a link, and there have been many. I believed it once, but my belief is slowing dissipating.
Research is looking at the cause of autism to be in utero. If you read the studies, it's not a theory of pregnant woman harboring viruses. It's environmental and genetic. What they are saying is that the changes in the brain occur in the womb. The child is born, seems to develop normally, then an autistic regression occurs.
You are more than welcome to believe that autism is caused by "aggressive vaccines." But, without scientific evidence, it doesn't hold much weight. If someone can produce a study that shows it, instead of the gut feelings from the imaginations of mothers, then that would be great. It would be a brilliant AH HA moment to see it published. It sounds great, except for the idea that infants are exposed to thousands of antigens every day after they leave the womb.
I am open to reading anything that talks about the link between vaccines and immune health. All I see here are people talking about how they have had kids and they just KNOW its the vaccines. So what is the percentage being caused by vaccines? What are the risk factors? Why do most vaccinated children not go on to develop autism?
What percentage of vaccine induced autism would be enough to recall vaccines? My younger brother may have autism, but he is brilliant, albeit socially inept.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
| IP: Logged |
From what I understand, they isolated the 4 common strains that induce cancer. I think the only question is, how long does it work? 5 years? 10? My biggest concern in giving it to a young child is, what would be the point if it is not effective after 5 years?
The flu shot is variable because the virus itself mutates. That's a whole other problem. There is no "universal" vaccine for the flu. Its a guessing game to be sure. I probably won't get one this year, if my asthma is in control. My immune system is way too problematic right now.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
| IP: Logged |
Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38323
posted
"Research is looking at the cause of autism to be in utero."
Well, they better be looking at Lyme.
The association between tick-borne infections, Lyme borreliosis and autism spectrum disorders
The wife of the man who wrote the article passed Lyme on to her autistic son in utero.
Vaccines can cause Lyme to come out of hiding which can result in autistic behavior. I don't know if that's what happened to this family, but it's something to consider.
Until we get better testing for latent infections, there's a BIG risk for autism caused by Lyme and other seemingly dormant infections to reactivate with a vaccine.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
Judie, I wonder if there is a difference in this "autistic behavior" and true autism. Autism is seen as a spectrum, with behavioral and cognitive problems. It would be nice to see if vaccines can induce latent infections, but that is a whole different story than CAUSING the problems.
That CDC whistle blower link tries to make the connection between autism and MMR vaccine, saying that the CDC hid data that shows a 3.4-fold increased risk for autism in African-American males.
The original Destefano study was a case-control study, for those who don't know, that is an observational epidemiological study of persons with the disease (or variable, like autism) of interest and a suitable control group.
Destefano found no statistically significant correlations. So the question is, how did brian hooker find it in his re-analysis? He took data from a case-control study, and created a cohort study. He then performed multiple subset analyses. I have a masters in a science field, so this immediately jumped out at me. Essentially:
Findings from multiple subgroup analyses may be misleading. Subgroup analyses are observational by nature and are not based on randomized comparisons. False negative and false positive significance tests increase in likelihood rapidly as more subgroup analyses are performed. If their findings are presented as definitive conclusions there is clearly a risk of patients being denied an effective intervention or treated with an ineffective (or even harmful) intervention. Subgroup analyses can also generate misleading recommendations about directions for future research that, if followed, would waste scarce resources.
so, we have someone who "reanalyzed" a CDC study, changed the design of the study, then used a method prone to false negatives and positives.
No followup studies have shown any link whatsoever. Add this to the fact that the original MMR vaccine autism link study was retracted, as Dr. Andrew Wakefield misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study.
posted
I am interested in autism as it's happened in my family. I originally bought into the vaccine hype, I now put it in the category as "unlikely." If anything, it's statistically insignificant. And irrelevant, since thimerisol is not in those vaccines for 15 years, yet autism is on the rise.
Neurological research has moved on as well, all of the research is looking at in utero, as fetal brain development is really intricate.
People here seem convinced it is the vaccine schedule, yet can't show any correlation. They just "know." My fear is that we become obsessed with a disproved theory and ignore other more likely explanations.
This is a great article for those interested in environmental toxins:
quote:Originally posted by MannaMe: I wonder if the ones who become autistic are the ones with methylation defects and don't detox well?
They would be the ones who can't get rid of all the toxins in the vaccines.
- That is probably part of it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
Maia, you have been on this forum less than one month. Out of your 44 posts, 24, or more than half are on this thread. I find this to be unusual to say the least.
You spout CDC dogma ad infinitem yet do not acknowledge how the the CDC's "facts" regarding Lyme Disease have devastated hundreds of thousands of people, including children. To say that many people here and/or their children have endured an immense amount of suffering at the hands of the CDC is an understatement.
So, I for one take what this agency has to say with a grain of salt. The CDC has lost its credibility. If you chose to believe everything you read, be my guest.
No one here has claimed "proof" that vaccines cause autism. But absence of proof does not mean proof of absence. As I noted previously, often the facts come to light after years and thousands of anecdotal accounts.
You completely disregard the opinions, real life (emphasis on REAL LIFE) experiences and suggestions of those of us "in the field" so to speak. We are the ones who know our children more than any suit sitting at a desk at a CDC office.
And we rely, not only on our own knowlege and experiences as parents, but upon the expertise of physicians across many specialties.
I am not compelled to prove to you that there are immuno-compromised children who should not recieve certain vaccines. You will just have to take my word for it, as I have extensive firsthand knowledge of this and have had extended conversations with several physicians.
It is not clear to me what your motives are. I hope they are sincere.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
One is free to post on any topic that is of interest to them, and as someone here who has actually suffered from HPV, received the vaccine, and suffers from chronic illness, I would say that this is something I might be inclined to discuss.
I also work in the scientific field and am considering continuing my education to the PHD level. So I spend time reading science articles and peer- reviewed data. It's just what I do and argue about for a living, it's not meant to be taken personally.
Having a different opinion than some here and a more strict sense of credible proof doesn't make me a spouter of CDC dogma. It just means I'm more conservative in what I'll believe.
I've had Lyme disease for over 15 years, so I know full well the harm the CDC can do. However, there is a plethora of research into Lyme that the CDC is flat out ignoring. This is not so with vaccines.
I am completely open to reading alternative viewpoints, yet nothing of substance has been posted. The original study by DR Andrew Wakefield was retracted as he misrepresented and altered medical histories.
Multiple studies afterwards have shown no correlation when comparing non-vaccinated vs vaccinated children. That doesn't mean that inflammation of the brain via vaccination has never cause an adverse effect or autistic symptoms, its just not the the cause of the increase in autism nor is it statistically significant, and possibly not the cause whatsoever.
The YouTube video on Brian Hooker's "study" was based on methodology blatantly prone to false positives, in order to support his viewpoint.
The DeStefano study found no difference in the odds of receiving the MMR shot between groups of autistic and neurotypical children of the same age. Hooker re-analyzed the data with a Pearson’s chi squared test.
For non biostatitions, suffice it to say, you’re going to have more children diagnosed as autistic at 36 months than you will at 18 or at 24 months. Using the chi square test doesn’t equal a correlation. It makes me want to facepalm.
Unfortunately, analyzing case control data as a cohort study and using bad statistical analyses is over the head of most laypersons, so we have to hear this CDC cover up again and again.
-------------------- Sick since 2000 Bulls eye 2005 Dx Babesia, Lyme 2014 Posts: 247 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2014
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have never said there aren't immune compromised children who should not receive vaccines, in fact vaccines are KNOWN to have risks. Statistically speaking, the benefit to public health still outweighs the risks for most.
The polio vaccine as a live vaccines, was risky. So is the smallpox vaccine. The active ingredients in the HPV vaccine are proteins produced by bacteria. It has not, as of yet, been maiming and killing people in large numbers.
The Clinical trials had an excellent safety record, post-clinically, no deaths have definitively been linked, besides the possibility of 2 cases noted for unusual neurological symptoms similar to Lou Gehrig’s disease.
There was an increase in patients who had potentially dangerous blood clots, although 90% of those patients had a risk factor for those clots, such as taking birth control pills. The problem is, records of adverse events in Vaers doesn't necessarily mean it was caused by the vaccine.
Having children doesn't qualify people to be experts on the topic of vaccines or give you "firsthand knowledge" on vaccine safety. That comes from data.
I'm not arguing that all vaccines are innocuous, they carry risks, they can have adverse reactions. Some people should not get them. We don't know exactly how they work, and of course they don't stimulate long lasting immunity the same as getting the disease. But, in diseases where the outcome is death, then they do have benefit.
I have the yellow fever vaccine, as I travel to places it is endemic. I consider this a good choice. Vaccines against deadly viruses probably are a good choice, the others, you need to think of risk vs benefit.
But, of interesting note, a paper published in PloS One indicates a 61% fall in genital warts for Australian women aged 15-27 since widespread vaccination began in 2007.
posted
How could anyone living with Lyme trust anything the medical community says especially the CDC?
Our Pediatrician told my sister-in-law not to vaccinate with HPV. If even he says not to than there's no way I would give it to my kids.
I like the form, Keebler. It would be fun to hand it to a Dr. the next time they give you the guilt trip!
Posts: 143 | From Pittsburgh | Registered: Jan 2014
| IP: Logged |
beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
Well-said Mvdr!
Maia, why on earth would you believe in your heart of hearts that the CDC wouldn't conduct itself in the same manner as it did with Lyme Disease?
Why would you think that the vaccination program/protocol is exempt from the same sort of corruption and greed as we know has been the case with Lyme Disease? Greed is greed. Power is power. Money is money. Those things are a constant in government agencies.
You said:
"Having children doesn't qualify people to be experts on the topic of vaccines or give you "firsthand knowledge" on vaccine safety. That comes from data."
I never stated I was an expert on "the topic of vaccines." But I sure as hell am an expert on my own children, as well as a witness to the children of others over the past 25 - 30 years, which gives me "firsthand knowledge" of and "data" about many, many things involving children, including vaccine efficacy and safety.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is a really strange discussion, to say the least. I have no idea (or maybe I do) why this thread keeps being brought up again and again.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
I think the discussion really hits home for people like me, a mother of chronically ill children.
When your kids are sick and immuno-compromised and you're faced with inoculating them, you really have to think long and hard and have to have discussions with all their docs about the pros and cons of doing so.
And in my case, I took the recommendations from our LLMD and naturopath as to how to mitigate any possible adverse reactions. Thankfully, our pediatrician is a very smart older lady who doesn't believe in "shooting 'em up" and recommended my kids NOT get the Gardasil shot.
I have family and friends whose children are on the spectrum. It is truly heartbreaking to see a beautiful child, who is obviously so bright, struggle with everyday tasks.
Is autism caused by vaccines? I have no idea. But I surely wouldn't trust the CDC to tell me one way or the other, given that agency's track record with Lyme Disease.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic