MADDOG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18
posted
How much Stevia do people take??
I got a bag of it at Walmart.
100 percent Natural Sweetner in the raw!!!
MADDOG
P.S. this is my healing month.
I am working on liver rebuilding.
Trying to get off of Naproxin using Tumeric,and tart red cherry juice.
Down to 1 quarter of a beer a day from 2 to 3 a day a month ago.That still wasn't much but this is liver month.
Posts: 3996 | From Ohio | Registered: Oct 2000
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MADDOG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18
posted
I was in the ER again Friday with chest pain.
I stoped my Naproxin and the costro chondritis got so severe it was like a heart attack.
No heart problems found !!!
I have to get this thing under control 4 visits to the ER in a month and a half.The Naproxin is also destroying my stomach it was also hurting .
I want so bad to go to Doctor S in Penn..It is to far for me to drive right now. WWAAAAAA!!!!
Posts: 3996 | From Ohio | Registered: Oct 2000
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- If you've never had stevia before, start with a very, VERY tiny amount in whatever foods you want to sweeten. It takes so much less than you think.
Best if it's organic. And it can also be hard to trace all that might be in the ingredients. Package labels often don't tell us. -
[ 01-02-2016, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- If you are thinking about some of the new (and exciting) research - in a lab - about how stevia might be very beneficial against lyme, again, any stevia we ingest should be organic. No wiggle room on that, IMO because all kind of agriculture chemicals could be in there, too, otherwise.
To go beyond the amount of using it in some foods, tea, etc. other than a mouth rinse, I'd not go wild with it as no one has yet considered what kind of reaction our pancreas or brain will have with more than typical use.
If our brains suddenly get the CONSTANT signal that we are ingesting VERY, VERY sweet stuff the pancreas and other systems could go bonkers. It might be good to see what Eva Sapi might say about some of the questions if anyone has such an article. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Something else that might have similar promise and is not sweet is limonene. It is highest in Lemon Myrtle tea. Strand Tea is one place to get that. Also in capsules. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Sorry to hear about the chest pain. Have they determined what's causing that? Inflammation, likely involved somehow.
I hope you body will ease down in that. Good luck. -
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Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305
posted
Ingested Stevia is not going to work against Lyme. It's metabolized and broken down to individual parts so that barely a fraction will even reach hepatocellular circulation IF ANY.
The tests done on borrelia in the lab were done in vitro. That means you put the Stevia right on top of the spirochete. This won't happen if you swallow Stevia.
The only way I can see it working is if you somehow got enough of it on your skin and enough of it got through the endothelial barrier. That might work, but swallowing it just won't.
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Jordana- I'd like to think ingested stevia MIGHT work against Lyme. It has not been proven that it doesn't (or does), so we really can't say positively either way, not yet. Kinda like the sexual transmission situation, we thought it was for decades, but didn't have enough science until recently to prove it can be.
As for the stevia, got more info saying we want to "wake up the so-caled persisters with sugar" and the stevia should work on the Borrrelia. (This is early research and has not been proven or confirmed scientifically.)
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Ditto: "I'd like to think ingested stevia MIGHT work against Lyme"
This is an exciting prospect. It's just that we'll need some time to figure out more about it before chug a lugging it.
Now, though, it's quite fine to include with those foods we want to taste sweet - and in tea, lemon water . . . .
It can take many trials to find the brand / form that tastes the best to us, has no additives (do read customer reviews as they can be valuable to also find out if some products contain things not obvious). -
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Maddog- I can't provide the source, but what I was told is 10-15 drops (liquid) of Stevia 2 times a day is what someone recommends trying. But I wouldn't count on this being a "cure" right now. Could it help? Can't say.
Seriously- I would suggest taking L-Glutamine powder- found online or in health food stores- NO additives or other ingredients.
One teaspoon of powdered L-Glutamine one time per day in water or juice (not beer) is the recommended dose. Take it for 2 months for the stomach/intestines repair mostly, but it may help with the lining of muscles in chest.
Weight lifters use it (it is an amino acid) for repairing their muscle linings after they work out to repair the tissue. Some have used it to make the uterus and/or bladder muscles and linings stronger.
You will possibly hear it is a bad thing (here), but I've used it before and it worked very well for me, no problems. Others have had success with it too.
Doctor's recommend it for IBS, leaky gut, food allergies, etc. too.
I'd also take calcium for the spasms, pain, fire feeling in the chest muscles/tendons, etc.
Magnesium works for some, but makes some much worse. Calcium works for others. Use what works for you.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- L-Glutamine can help heal the gut lining, however, it may be best to start with a very tiny dose like 1/8 teaspoon - but even that can be dangerous for some with lyme
for those with neurological issues, be very careful with only the lowest dose possible (if other things do not first work). Here's why: too much can damage our nerve cells because of the myelin sheath compromise lyme causes.
It can also lower the seizure threshold severely. I found that out the hard way, over and over as it was not clear to me until I stumbled upon the articles in set below.
It can also make anxiety zoom to the moon. Same with tinnitus.
See post: Caution: Aspartate; Glutamine; and Phenylalanine (3 excitatory amino acids that can be wrong for us when added as supplements, beyond a normal dietary level)
Seaweed has its own natural MSG (monosodium glutamate) and can be very excitatory -
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Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305
posted
Agree with Keebler. L-Glutamine=double edged sword.
As for the rest, please read this article about the metabolism of Stevia. I have nothing against Stevia at all and it has a lot of health benefits, so there is no reason at all not to eat it.
"Research has shown that there is no accumulation of stevia (or any by-product of stevia) in the body during metabolism."
You just can't get any clearer than that. It MIGHT kill some spirochetes by accident in the upper gastrointestinal tract by accident, but that's not really one of Lyme's preferred hangouts.
I hate to be a buzzkill, really. But I'd also hate to think that there are people who might think they're "treating" their Lyme ( or any life-threatening condition) by eating Stevia.
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Jordana- I looked at the actual study your quote referred to rather than just the opinions in the article. The study states...
"Metabolic studies with steviol glycosides in animasl and humans demonstrated that intact steviol glycosides are poorly absorbed after oral exposure but that they are hydrolysed by the microflora in the colon to steviol. A large amount of steviol is absorbed; the rest is excreted in the faeces."
Interesting also were these quotes...
Quote- "The results of toxicological testing indicated that steviol glycosides are not genotoxic, carcinogenic, nor associated with any reproductive/developmental toxicity."
Sure beats the toxic and damaging affects of antibiotics!
Quote- "The Panel notes that in presence of high temperatures (e.g. heating, baking) substantial degradation of steviol glycosides might take place."
Jordana
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 45305
posted
yes it's great that it's nontoxic. But it won't ever reach the bloodstream and can't have any tissue penetration at all.
It would have to be injected to be of any use. it could be very toxic to do that or, who knows, it could be the next superdrug. Since we need new antimicrobials, that would be a very happy ending Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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I purchased Nutrimedix Stevia drops on Amazon, which I believe was brand "A" (the most effective brand in the study.) Powdered Stevia did not work in the study for some unknown reason.
I take about 7-10 drops at a time in my coffee, about 5 times per day, although Dr. Sapi supposedly suggested that it be taken in water only.
Word has it that Stevia opens the water channels of an established Lyme biofilm colony, making that colony more susceptible to killing agents. Stevia also supposedly degrades round bodies (cysts) and kills live spirochetes as well..
I also take Grapefruit seed extract drops(1 gram per day) and Monolaurin up to 3 scoops per day. All of these have had scientific success against spirochetes, round bodies and biofilm in VITRO, but not necessarily in VIVO. See my list of antispirochete, anti biofilm compounds here http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/132608
Another compound that has had success against all forms of borrelia in VITRO is Skullcap-- but I want to research this more before trying it.
I guess we are now the proud "in vivo" lab rats... LOL But thank you Dr. Sapi.
Good luck--- and give the Nutrimedix brand a try.
See Dr. Sapi at the Norvect Conference in 2014 (pay 10 euros for access to the entire two days of videos, but this clip is free) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03dvNMmmx0
[ 01-03-2016, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: WakeUp ]
Posts: 696 | From New York | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Jordana: Ingested Stevia is not going to work against Lyme. It's metabolized and broken down to individual parts so that barely a fraction will even reach hepatocellular circulation IF ANY.
The tests done on borrelia in the lab were done in vitro. That means you put the Stevia right on top of the spirochete. This won't happen if you swallow Stevia.
The only way I can see it working is if you somehow got enough of it on your skin and enough of it got through the endothelial barrier. That might work, but swallowing it just won't.
Excellent point Jordana... Perhaps I will begin to hold the 7 drops of Nutrimedix Stevia sublingually (under the tongue) for about 5 minutes. This way the Stevia is absorbed directly into the blood.
I am at least glad that scientists are now running a dribble of experiments in VITRO on Lyme biofilm and Lyme cysts.
Much, much, MUCH more basic research on spirochaeticidal compounds needs to be done, and the government is NOT helping us-- it (the CDC and IDSA) continues to deny chronic Lyme, round bodies (cysts) and biofilm persisters despite more than peer review 100 studies proving the opposite..
And some of our foundations continue to invite Chronic Lyme denialists as educators-- which is a step in the wrong direction if we are to get more funding for in vitro studies of how to kill persisters and biofilm.
Independent researchers have had success IN VITRO--- against Borrelia and its persisters- with Grapefruit Seed Extract (Brorsons), Samento/Banderol et. al (Sapi), Skullcap(Dr. Rath Institute), Monolaurin and cis-decenoic acid (royal jelly) (Dr. Rath Institute) These studies are an important step towards a real cure!!
We really need to finance HUNDREDS of these types of studies mentioned above. I have dozens more promising compounds on my list here.
posted
I am even willing to hold Grapefruit Seed extract drops (in a few ounces of water) under my tongue for ten minutes if it will get into my blood ..... UGH.... its so bitter, but it grows on you.
So far I take GSE 20 drops in a few ounces of water 3 times per day and it has not affected my teeth at all, although it can sometimes give me a mild stomach ache. . I also put it directly on my skin and scalp and I have never had any problems at all.
I dont find it to be that strong, but of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one here ---to my knowledge--- is a doctor or a PhD. This is just a forum for sharing our experiences---- not for one-upping each other.
[ 01-03-2016, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: WakeUp ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- WakeUp, you say: "Grapefruit Seed extract drops under my tongue for ten minutes" (end quote)
GSE can be very helpful to the mouth, but even one drop should be diluted with water on a toothbrush and only for a short contact time. Then a very thorough rinse.
Or one or two drops in a half cup water for gargle and good swishing.
To use GSE in any other way could take the enamel right off all your teeth & it can be very caustic to the mouth tissue, so be very careful to get even a very diluted amount out of your mouth in about 30 seconds.
Same with drinking lemon water. It's good for the liver, just try to keep it from being "alone" in the mouth for very long at anytime as that can strip tooth enamel big time. A good swish with clear water should follow lemon water, any citrus -- and really any food or drink, I suppose. -
[ 01-03-2016, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Lymedin2010
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34322
posted
I took 1 bag of stevia...nothing.
2nd bag of stevia that day...nothing.
3rd bag of stevia at night & then about 1-2 hr later....bam!!!!
Twitching & things moving all over my body. More tremors & vibrations & wave after wave of burning in areas & just odd disturbances. Then along comes unwell feeling & feeling of nausea & the dangling possibility of vomiting.
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TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
BAGS!!!?? Don't do yourself in, Lymedin!!
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Lymedin2010,
If you are still feeling those effects today, magnesium may help (especially if there are any "natural flavors" added to the stevia you took).
Define "bag"? Do you mean one of those little packets that would hold about 1/8 to 1/4 tsp?
But anytime we get " . . . bam!!!!" that is not good, not a good thing at all. It has me really worried that you had the reaction and I'm wondering if there are additives in that, too, and that could be causing the neuro-excitatory reaction you got.
That's a bad warning sign that the neurons are just very overwhelmed. It may - most likely - has nothing to do with lyme.
My guess is that the bags you talk about are larger, though. My biggest concern with "over dosing" is pancreas shut down. The body is going to interpret that intensity of sweetness and go all bonkers. Instant diabetes could be a result, among other things. Some brain issues, too, perhaps. Such intensity can terribly confuse the entire balance of the brain / body / organ communication.
I also have a concern that if anyone has any medial issues with stevia, even if by taking huge doses, it will be taken off the market. I would be livid as it's the only sweetener from real plants that works for me. It makes my miserable life just a bit more bearable to have some sweetness in my tea.
Be sure to check all the ingredients in what that is, so it also helps determine what happened. -
[ 01-18-2016, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Lymedin2010
Here are some possible explanations as to the effects you had:
Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors (that are not likely natural at all). -
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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MADDOG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18
posted
Thanks everyone!!!! MADDOG
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Bitter herbs. What has just come to mind that might be something to look into for anyone who might be experimenting with more than a typical amount of stevia during the day.
Why? While there is no data on this and stevia is a real food, there is data that shows even normal use (or consistent use) of artificial sweeteners can still really mess up the body and the brain and pancreas regarding the detection of sweetness and things have gone haywire because of that.
So, were excessive amounts of stevia to perhaps also cause some problems, it may be that balancing it with a bitter herb (there are many and several that can help with lyme, etc.) that might still allow for stevia to do whatever good it can yet keep it from signaling to the body / brain / pancreas that the sweetness quotient is to the moon.
Such a question might best be answered - or considered - by a LL naturopathic doctor or a LLMD who is well educated in herbal medicines . . . and actually it might be good to ask the primary researcher, Dr. Sapi, herself (and others who may be working with her on this). -
[ 01-22-2016, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Here is a paper regarding oral bioavailability of Stevia. Turns out stevioside is bioavailable and appears in plasma. 13.2% of an oral does passes in the urine, from plasma, via kidneys to urine. Some conflicting research results.
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