Hubby already takes many antioxidants, but I am open to trying 1 or both of these products if they could help with symptoms. Tell me more.

The mangosteen available in the stores is not worth the bottle it's put in. What you want is the RIND of the fruit in large quantities. The mangosteen in stores is good as far as an antioxidant goes...but not full of xanthones as Xango is.

It's the Xanthones that do the trick. There are more than 130 proven health benefits of the xanthones. These health benefits were proven before Xango even came to market.

[and Xango was first to market the mangosteen....and will remain the category-creator and THE product to imitate.]

Here are links to past discussions.
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/032080.html http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/035247.html

Don't accept imitations!

PS... I take 5-6 ounces per day. I take that in two doses. It TASTES WONDERFUL!

------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu

I've seen Xango sold in stores.

>Lowered my liver enzymes...I started taking it as I switched to IV abx

>got rid of my depression

>lowered my cholesterol 60 points in 5 months

>improved cognitive function AND memory

However...I did develop a bad case of thrush while on it...this wasn't just XanGo's fault...I was cheating alot on my diet...a whole lot.

In my opinion nothing compares.

Yes, I am a distributor...but does that discount what it has done...absolutely not.

I have no moral reason to say slant my view of this product. (THat would be lkike telling a Doctor he can't charge for his services.)

Tutu is right....the WHOLE fruit does the work...funny thing is MANY of the copy cats are being sued by XanGo at this time...due to Patent infringement on the use of the Xanthones...and your jaw would rop when you found out what has surfaced in the "discovery periods' of these suits...no rind (which contains the xanthone molecules) in the fruit drink...per the competing bottlers.

Hust a word of caution about the prdcuts that are available that do NOT carry the brand name XanGo.

Trout

Here's the question....why would you NOT buy the product from someone who is basically unemployable...except for the the small amount of income they may make from this product?

On the other hand...I have seen people by...resealed bottles of this product...it wasn't the original. The only way to know if it is the real deal....buy from the distributor that told you about it.

Trout

quote:

---

Originally posted by seibertneurolyme:
Both are now available in local health food store. Have read that some of you take these products. Before I spend $25 - $30 I would like to know more. Share your experiences including dose that you take.

Hubby already takes many antioxidants, but I am open to trying 1 or both of these products if they could help with symptoms. Tell me more.

Bea Seibert

---

Noni is great for curing all, only according to multi-level marketing schemes.

If you want to eat something fresh that will boost your immune system way more than bottled and pasturized Noni, try going to the local health store and get some fresh organic fruits and veggies.

Noni is said to cure all diseases, sounds like a marketing scheme to me.

BTW, they don't tell you things like, people who have kidney disease will usually have bad reactions to Noni due to high Potassium levels that can cause kidney failure.

So right there, saying Noni is a "cure all" is a lie.

I tried it for a good four months way back, and it did nothing for me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by pab:
Lymetoo,

I've seen Xango sold in stores.

---

If I knew their phone numbers and location I would turn them in. They would lose their distributorship. I wouldn't risk that myself!

I'll make my experience with mangosteen brief. I've been on the product for a little more than a year.

At least 95% of my pain is gone...and I had plenty! I've spent years on this board where typing put me in agony...but I did it anyway. Now I can type away!

I had severe sciatic nerve pain. Occasionally it flares, but those instances are rare and the other times, I have no pain at all there....I used to be in pain ALL the time from it.

My feet used to hurt so bad that I had to wear shoes with orthotics and my left shoe had a lift in it. Now I can wear any shoes I want and am happily wearing sandals this summer [again!]

My allergies are non-existent and I no longer use Flonase, which I had used for YEARS.

I no longer have an astigmatism, which I've had for at least 40 yrs. You heard right! No astigmatism! I had to have my lenses changed because my vision had improved so much and I wear my ONE contact now! I used to wear TWO, of course!

My depression is GONE! I still take trazodone to help me sleep, but I feel WONDERFUL in the mental area! I didn't know I had any depression left...but now that it's gone, I feel amazing!

I used to ONLY be able to sleep flat on my back because of back and hip pain, neck pain, and shoulder pain. I now can sleep any position except on my left shoulder! That means alot to me!

My bladder pain is MUCH IMPROVED! I have Interstitial Cystitis, which causes alot of pain. Now I can wait 2-3 hrs if I have to before heading to the potty!

My cholesterol is 151, down from 186!! My HDL [the good] is 44, up from 36! WoooHooo!!

PC-NONI (Morinda Citrifolia)
PC-Noni, or Morinda Citrifolia comes from the family Rubiaceae (making it a relative of Samento or Uncaria Tomentosa and complimentary in use.) The species Noni has been used in Island Cultures for the past 2000 years. The area in Hawaii where BioPure Noni is harvested is recognized as ideally suited and is a major source of excellent quality Noni fruit because of the nutrient rich volcanic ash in which it is grown.

The list of phytonutrients in Noni is quite impressive and includes the following:

Scopoletin, Morindadiol, Rubiadin, Seotonin, Damnacanthal, Nordamnacanthal, Anthraquinones, Carotenoids, Bioflavanoids, Morindine, Morindone, Terpenes, Plant Sterols, Glycosides, Alizarin, Ursolic acid, Caproic acid, Glucopyranose, Asperuloside, Serotonin,Alkaloids, Enzymes, Serine, Multi-receptor activators, Chlororubin, Methionine, Alanine, Isolucine, Arginine, Leucine, Aspartate, Lysine, Cysteine, Phen)yalanine, Cystine, Glycine, Tryptophane, Glutamate, Valine Tyrosine, Histadine, Proline, trace elements, vitamins, minerals and many other phytochemicals.

BioPure utilizes a proprietary extraction process to capture and maximize the numerous phytonutrients. The taste is not offensive (which it normally is) and more importantly it is eight times the concentration of regular Noni Juice. This process makes BioPure PC-Noni Juice Concentrate, more affordable, user appealing and has inspired many practitioners and Noni aficionados to switch to this highly concentrated format.

Maintenance Dosage:
Take 5-15 drops per day in half a cup of water on an empty stomach. This may be taken as a one daily dosage as desired.

Therapeutic Dosage:
Acute conditions - Adults take 25 drops every hour until 2-3 hours after symptoms are eliminated. For severe cases take 25 drops every 30 minutes.
Children can take proportionally less by weight.

Chronic Conditions: Take 15-25 drops twice a day (less by weight for children).

Higher dosage may be required for more severe conditions.

PC-Noni can be taken immediately after meals.

Take PC-Samento and PC-Noni at least 30 minutes apart."

Hubby is back on Rifampin at 75mg daily and Doxycycline at 100mg daily -- no significant increase in tremors after 2 weeks at these doses of meds. And he has actually slept through the night 4 nights in a row without 1 or 2 seizure-like episodes during the night. This hasn't happened for months.

But costochondritis has been acting up and new eye symptoms -- pain he has had before, but now lots of spots (floaters?) and increased difficulty focusing and reading. Increased headaches and balance (dizziness?) problems. Increased muscle stiffness and ataxia. Continues to have episodes of "claw hand" and bell's palsy. Episodes of impulsive irritability (sounds more impressive than rage I think) more frequent.

Basically things started falling apart again when he went back on antibiotics after a month break. Very concerned about increasing doses of antibiotics at this time.

Can't afford any more Phostphatidylcholine (Lipostabil) right now. So it looks like if it will help with both inflammation and liver detox the Xango or noni is the way to go.

Current antibiotics seem to have resolved elevated blood ammonia problem -- will know for sure after bloodwork next week.

A little concerned about the candida issue or possible overgrowth of other G.I. bacteria which could elevate blood ammonia.

Anyone else tried noni? Or has anyone tried both noni and Xango (mangosteen)?

He also has no depression.....and before the mangosteen had thoughts of suicide. He was in alot of pain from arthritis [I really think he has Lyme.] and couldn't stand much more.

Today, only 5 months after beginning the product, he is out building his business. He looks wonderful and it's good to see him enjoying life again!

We see "miracles" all the time in this business. It's so exciting to be a part of it, and to have your OWN miracles!

You can read his critique here.

A Friendly Skeptic Looks at Mangosteen

------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]

I'm one of them.

Here are more sites for info: http://www.mangosteenexperiences.com/ http://www.researchmangsoteen.com http://www.mangosteenstories.org
on the last one, click on "messages" on the left hand side of the page

No claims have ever been made by XanGo as to a cure for any disease...

We are talking symptom relief.....

THIS is NOT a pesonal attack on River.
(She is well meaning...)
River is is basing her opinion on a chance meeting that she had at a local library where someone heard she Lyme and blurted out...this will cure Lyme.

That's about as silly as a Duck telling me I DON"T have Lyme.

A well meaning, yet unfortunately...uneducated person makes an outlandish claim and then River posts a whjole stream refuting and targeting a Company and its Distributors.
(I still find this a little distasteful...as you can tell.)

I have seen what it has done for people...and what it hasn't...approximately 20% of the people I know of that have tried this product have seen no result...and of those people..they tell me that they either didn't take it correctly, or at all...or it just never worked. (I know two people that tried it for 3 months at high doses....and it didn't help.) Now...comparing that to the other 400 or so people it DID help.

You only know until you tried it.

I beleive River hasn't tried it so her opinion is NOT based on personal experience...but, that of a person that made a flippant remark in a public place.

I am basing my opinion on experience of my family, my wife's family, my friends, me firends families, and the hundreds of 'friends' I know of that take it.

And...yes...I sell it....I don't make enough to make a house payment, yet...BUT...at least I have some semblence of employment/accomplishment/direction and feel good after what I see that it has done for others.

Their's are $25 to $26 plus tax here....comes to $26.75 or $27.82

Xango runs $30.44 with shipping, handling and taxes....plus superior customer service.
(Fact: More quality control from tree to bottle also.)

So for a difference of $2.62 per bottle...you can either help someone that owns the local food store that has the abilityt to work where thay like...or you can help a disabled Lymie that is only trying to make enough to pay for the life sustaining drugs, medical care and supplements that make life bearable.

That...is it in a nut shell.

Trout

I am posting the link because Bea asked for info on the products. The last time I posted it, and then removed it, several people asked that it be reposted.

I trust that people are able to read and make their own choices, but it helps to have a variety of points of view. Trout is right, I haven't tried the product, so it isn't my own experience, but I do have respect for Ralph Moss.

I also have respect for Trout and Lymetoo.

I just know that it can be hard to evaluate products when we don't have any objective means to do so. Testimonials are useful, but when we are so desperate for a cure, it can be hard to be clear about just what is having an impact on our health.

I have always appreciated the way Ralph Moss evaluates how a protocol works, or doesn't work. His website on cancer treatment is extremely informative, and I like how he works alternative and conventional protocols together.

If his review isn't useful, people are free to ignore it. If they find Mangosteen or Noni Juice helps them, I'm delighted! Personally, anything that helps someone get better is fine with me.

I just don't like anyone throwing the word "CURE" around here on Lymenet for any one product...or treatment.

We all know better.

Yes, a fair and balanced look at this is needed...but, also for Marnie's approach. Gigi's approach. Dr C's approach.....Dr B's approach...need I say more?

I re-iterate the fact that no knowledgeable make claims that XanGo is a cure for Lyme.
(Let alone anything else.)

Have a Great weekend ......

Trout

Just curious, has anyone had their LLMD recommend Xango?

quote:

---

Originally posted by troutscout:
Thanks River,

I just don't like anyone throwing the word "CURE" around here on Lymenet for any one product...or treatment.

We all know better.

Yes, a fair and balanced look at this is needed...but, also for Marnie's approach. Gigi's approach. Dr C's approach.....Dr B's approach...need I say more?

I re-iterate the fact that no knowledgeable make claims that XanGo is a cure for Lyme.
(Let alone anything else.)

Have a Great weekend ......

Trout

---

while i haven't tried either one, from what i've studied--mostly mangosteen---i'd go with the 'mango xango' good scientific stuff on pub med about this.
shortly after noni came out there was one negative review it in connection with, i think, some kind of arthritis, perhaps a one or more of the rheumatoid kinds.
given this, and "lyme arthritis" being "rhuenmatioid-like" it might have the same/similar adverse effect on lyme as on the rheumatiod arth. i'd first look heavily into noni before just buying it with little research.

Would this be a good way to get whatever it is that is beneficial???

Anyone else try this?? zman

Nope. Mangos and mangosteen are completely different fruits. You can't buy mangosteen in the US, except maybe a place or two in Calif. It's grown in Indonesia, Thailand, etc and is very perishable. It is harvested twice a year and our company is contracted with Wild Flavors to harvest at exactly the right time for optimum ripeness and effectiveness of the product. Wild Flavors does Sobe, Capri Sun, flavors for Kraft and Nestle.

The rind of the mangosteen is VERY bitter, and Wild Flavors has flavored it so we can drink the juice with pleasure! It tastes GOOD! If you lived in Thailand, you'd have to figure out how to make it palatable....very difficult. The natives make a tea from the rind, but it's still very bitter.........and the RIND is the most important part of the fruit.

river....no hard feelings,...but you're not speaking from experience and neither is Ralph Moss.

tequeslady....I wish I could share my most recent conversation with my LLMD on this, but I can't. It was a positive conversation, however.

I found out why hubby is sleeping better. Sometimes he changes his supplements without telling me. He increased the 5HTP/L-tryptophan capsules from 1 to 3 per night. In my opinion the reason he was able to do this is because he is now taking 6 of the Resveratrol (Japanese knotweed source).

Previously, even though he was low in serotonin as demonstrated on numerous tests from at least 2 different labs, this supplement would cause seizure-like episodes during the night. The reason for this as far as I understand it is that when the body and more especially the brain is in an inflammatory state the body uses 5HTP to produce quinolinic acid (a potent neurotoxin) instead of producing serotonin.

The book "Healing Lyme" explains this in great detail. Hubby has 1 test result from a couple of years ago that confirms this in his case -- he had extrememly high metabolites generated from this alternative pathway plus elevated quinolinic acid -- this was either a blood or urine test and not cerebral spinal fluid, but I think it is still valid in his case.

Lymetoo -- The comment about your improvement in vision was interesting. Several years ago my mom had what are called cotton wool patches on her eyes from extremely high blood pressure that was not under control at the time. She changed her diet, got on blood pressure meds and my sister talked her into taking pycnogenol (pine bark extract) which is a potent antioxidant. The cotton wool patches went away -- her eye doctor said he had never seen that happen before.

Troutscout -- I am generally a very optimistic person (this drives my hubby crazy actually), but at the same time when it comes to Lyme and other tick-borne diseases I QUESTION EVERYTHING !!!!! Yes, that includes all the protocols and even the doctors on your list. Been to too many "duck doctors" who forget that every person is unique and what works for one may not work for another. Even good doctors forget this sometimes.

Riversinger -- I read the link you provided. In my opinion, it was mainly in reference to cancer which I know next to nothing about thank goodness and a critique of network marketing in general.

The unanswered question in my mind is what is the actual antioxidant capacity of Xango and does it cross the blood-brain barrier?

If I had the money I would like to retest hubby's lipid peroxide levels -- haven't done this in a couple of years. Then I would like to significantly increase antioxidants -- be it COQ10 or Xango or Noni or something else and do a 2nd lipid peroxide test to answer these questions to my satisfaction. I sincerely doubt this is going to happen though.

Thanks to everyone who responded and I will post an update if hubby decides to give Xango or noni a try.

Bea Seibert

According to the ORAC scale [Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity] the mangosteen juice registers between 17,000 and 24,000...but again, the antioxidant effect is not the big issue.

[PS... ORAC is a way to measure how many oxygen radicals a specific food can absorb.]

There are even products which claim to have more "mangosteen juice" than Xango....They're talking about the inside of the fruit, not the all-important xanthones found in the rind.

The most important benefit of the mangosteen [in my opinion] is the anti-inflammatory effect. It is scientifically proven. Did you read some of the research at www.researchmangosteen.com ??

Notice the dates on the abstracts....the research was done before our product came to market 3 yrs ago. It is independent research.

OH and about my eyesight. I know several others whose vision improved to the point of having to get new lenses. That's never happened to me before!

------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu

[This message has been edited by Lymetoo (edited 28 August 2005).]

Just to clarify -- yes I know you have learned your sales presentation very thoroughly, but you are contradicting yourself. Xanthones are a type of antioxidant -- just the same as beta carotene or lycopene (from tomatoes) or lutein (from bilberries, blueberries and other berries).

The ORAC is a measure of the antioxidant capacity of a plant or food substance -- anti meaning radical -- thus oxegen radical absorbance capacity.

Mangosteen may have additional anti-inflammatory properties -- I don't know.

As I said before, the jury is still out as far as I am concerned. Xango and noni are not exactly cheap as far as supplements go and that is why I was asking others for their first-hand experiences.

Hubby is continuously changing his supplement protocol and he frequently has what appear to be adverse reactions to things that have helped other people. I'm not saying we wouldn't try either Xango or noni, just that they are on the list of options with several other things.

Right now I am just trying to come up with the money to go see his primary care provider and/or his LLMD next month. I have put off the appointment with the LLMD for 3 months now and know I shouldn't wait much longer. The LLMD wants to try a different IV antibiotic that we can't afford so we are kind of between a rock and a hard place right now.

Xanthones induce cell-cycle arrest and apoptosis in human colon cancer DLD-1 cells.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db= pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16112579&query_hl=1

Most notably, the study suggest Xanthones to be pursued to be inluded in cancer treatment plans.

"These findings provide a relevant basis for the development of xanthones as an agent for cancer prevention and combination therapy with anti-cancer drugs."

I was refering to those that might think that my comments were biased...when they aren't...sorry you mis-understood that intent...you are fine with me.

Lymetoo is actually correct, there are also other anti-oxidants that are in the Mangosteen fruit.

However, of the 5 different known types of anti-oxidants....the key one is the Xanthone. What she has not told you is that there are other companies that 'pump-up' the anti-oxidant content in their juice drink that contains mainly the interior fruit which is notoriously low in Xanthones but high in the other anti-oxidants.

That is why a XanGo person has a tendancy to focus on the Xanthone...which IS an anti-oxidant, rather than the other four anti-oxidants.

The Xanthones in the Mangosteen fruit are basically unique to this fruit, and the ones that show the most efficacy in possible medical use are indeed those that are found in the rind..and not the overly glorified, yet tasty, inner fruit.

So..she's not really giving you a sales pitch...she's just trying focus you on the finer points of this wonderful fruit.

Hope that helps...you and the others reading.

Trout

------------------
Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within.
Let the claws be bared,
and Lyme BEWARE!!!
Iowa Lyme Disease Assoc. www.ildf.info

Just as stated in the Moss article,

we too with Lyme (as in Cancer) live in a topsy turvy world in figuring out the maze of what we need and when.

The facts seem to be that Mangosteen rind has the highest concentration of Xanthones.

Xanthones seem to be potent antioxidants.

The use of this juice seems to benefit some people.

A reference eluding to possible merit in the use of Xanthones included in anti-cancer therapies is posted above.

I read the Moss article and what he seems to successfully refute is the more inflated claims made on the product, not the known
facts.

He looks at it in context as to how someone with Cancer should view the product realistically.

I'm answering your post because I am very in tune with applying what my and my son's body needs at given times to restore the balance..
we clearly have diferent needs at different times based on where we are at and what's going on in our body.

In considering Xango, I might consider it if I was at a juncture where I needed a potent source of anti-oxidants, or where I couldn't do anything about diet, meds, ect.. (tho I would first check out the anti-inflammatory mechanism, as I always do in the case of our Lyme here, I'm very careful about masking..not saying Xango masks, at all...just that I would look at that myself and try and find out)

Clearly, in some cases there can be allot of benefit in getting as assimilable 'shot' of potent free radical scavangers..
and I think it might help some people at some point in the game..

but beyond that I also feel there are many imbalances that must be ultimately corected and addressed, so that the need for anti-oxidant 'treatment' is no longer necessary,
and all our nutrients are balanced and gotten through food...many types of food..

I would never want to rely on something high dose and long term that was this exotic, as I have come to realize that there is a core issue that must be resolved for long term health/wellness..
therefore I would view Xanthones perhaps as a potent supplement to meet a short term need..at a time when my body was unable to assimilate other foods or was impaired in that way.

(..tho am not sure there aren't other ways to meet that need..in other forms, and with other foods.)

And it is expensive, so it does have to be weighed cost/benefit wise depending on the person's situation and need.

I also see that that is kind of the way Moss was viewing it, not shooting down what it is, but putting it within the frame of the big picture.

It's hard for us to know what exactly we need at any given time, which is why I keep digging down to get to the core of it..
but when I was on IV and all, I had much less flexibility to do so, so I might have looked into this deeper then.

Best,
Mo

here is some info on the anti-inflammatory effect. I'll be back with the medical abstract.

Mangosteen: A Powerful Anti-Inflammatory

The mangosteen, while definitely one of the most powerful natural antioxidants yet discovered, contains a host of other benefits that in some ways are even more exciting.

The mangosteen's anti-inflammatory xanthones are probably responsible for providing more immediate relief than any other phytonutrients found in the fruit.

Dr. Kenneth J. Finsand has this to say:

"This is probably the most famous use of all the qualities found in the mangosteen: it is by far the most powerful anti-inflammatory I have ever seen in 30 years of practice. Research has proven this to be true, along with folk medicine history."

Dr. Frederic Templeman tells us that the anti-inflammatory properties of mangosteen have been compared in strength to one of the most potent anti-inflammatory prescription drugs, Dexamethasone. In his words, "this drug knocks the socks off Vioxx in terms of potency." The following excerpt taken from the audio "The Miracle Mangosteen" is available at http://www.mangosteentools.com.

[NOTE: Since making the above statement about Vioxx (Dexamethasone), that drug was pulled from the market as of September 30, 2004, due to its possible adverse side effects, see below.]

[This was taken from the www.researchmangosteen.com site.]

------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice. I am not a doctor, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express!
oops!
Lymetutu

Inhibition of cyclooxygenase and prostaglandin E2 synthesis by gamma-mangostin, a xanthone derivative in mangosteen, in C6 rat glioma cells.

Nakatani K, Nakahata N, Arakawa T, Yasuda H, Ohizumi Y.

Department of Pharmaceutical Molecular Biology, Graduate School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Tohoku University, Aoba, Aramaki, Aoba-ku, 980-8578, Sendai, Japan.

The fruit hull of mangosteen, Garcinia mangostana L., has been used for many years as a medicine for treatment of skin infection, wounds, and diarrhea in Southeast Asia. In the present study, we examined the effect of gamma-mangostin, a tetraoxygenated diprenylated xanthone contained in mangosteen, on arachidonic acid (AA) cascade in C6 rat glioma cells. gamma-Mangostin had a potent inhibitory activity of prostaglandin E2 ( PGE2) release induced by A23187, a Ca2+ ionophore. The inhibition was concentration-dependent, with the IC50 value of about 5 microM. gamma-Mangostin had no inhibitory effect on A23187-induced phosphorylation of p42/p44 extracellular signal regulated kinase/mitogen-activated protein kinase or on the liberation of [14C]-AA from the cells labeled with [14C]-AA. However, gamma-mangostin concentration-dependently inhibited the conversion of AA to PGE2 in microsomal preparations, showing its possible inhibition of cyclooxygenase (COX). In enzyme assay in vitro, gamma-mangostin inhibited the activities of both constitutive COX (COX-1) and inducible COX (COX-2) in a concentration-dependent manner, with the IC50 values of about 0.8 and 2 microM, respectively. Lineweaver-Burk plot analysis indicated that gamma-mangostin competitively inhibited the activities of both COX-1 and -2. This study is a first demonstration that gamma-mangostin, a xanthone derivative, directly inhibits COX activity.

PMID: 11754876 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4: Mahabusarakam W, Proudfoot J, Taylor W, Croft K.