Topic: They Knew in 1954 This is for people Diagnosed with MS or Multiple Sclerosis
treepatrol
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96. Steiner G. 1954 Morphology of spirochaeta myelophthora in multiple sclerosis. Journal of Neuropathology, 13:221-29.P
Four cases of multiple sclerosis, including the case to be reported, elicited abundant numbers of specific spirochetes in the central nervous system to warrant the publication of this paper.
...Morphology and Polymorphism of Spirochaeta Myelophthora: Loops, incomplete, nearly complete or totally complete rings are occasionally seen...
The limited polymorphism of micro-organisms is nothing unusual in microbiology. Especially in old cultures or in chemically and antibiotically treated cases micro-organisms very often exhibit bizarre forms. ...Classification: ...
What can be said now, with all reservation, is that the spirocheta myelophthora, taken from its morphological appearance in fixed central nervous system tissues, seems to belong to the genus borrelia of the spirochaetales, family of Treponemataceae. ...Reproduction: ...In multiple sclerosis, as in other chronic spirochetal infectious diseases, there is no continuous reproductive activity of the organisms.
Their propagation may occur at regular or irregular intervals of time....The first fact is the presence of enormous masses of extracellular and intracellular argyrophilic granular bodies in recent plaques of multiple sclerosis.
This is nothing unusual in comparison with other acute or chronic spirochetal diseases, such as relapsing fever and syphilis... If the granular bodies in multiple sclerosis are developing from broken-up spirochetes, and there is much evidence for it, the possibility of previous presence of countless numbers of actively multiplying spirochetes in the tissues is not far fetched.
...Transformation: There is a definite sequence of events in the disintegration of the spirochaeta myelophthora. Breaking-up starts with the appearance of loops, rings ,knobs, partial thickening and the formation of granules of different sizes ....Two chronological sequences may be established:
They Know!!
A first phase is the extracellular location of intact, active and probably motile spirochetes, followed by a second phase of extracellular disintegration in granular form.
The intracellular ingestion of spirochetal debris seems to be a later phase of the pathological process. ...
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
LymeEd, When you say ahead of his time I couldnt agree more, I read a phenomenal book on MS at the bookstore one night, when I was convinced I had MS..I was awaiting my results from another brain MRI, and the fucus of the book was just this, that MS was a viral or bacterial infection in the brain and the leisions were created by the white blood cells attacking the infection in the brain....
amazing here we are 50 years later....and yet why is this not catching on...we are still so behind the times...too many doctors with too many egos...I will however try and find the name and author of this book, because it shed MS in a different light....Jill
found it I think..."Curing MS" by Howard L. Weiner....so at least there are doctors and scientists out there still trying to prove this theory....Jill
Posts: 83 | From Northern Illinois | Registered: Feb 2005
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oxygenbabe
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Lyme Ed, can you please post the references? It would be much appreciated.
Since spirochetes have an affinity for nerve tissue, I wonder if the plaques are the body's attempt to wall off the "infected" tissue--unfortunately in the case of nerves, you're killing them.
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oxygenbabe
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Thank you Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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treepatrol
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I find it incredible that they know that this was there in the MS field back then fast forward to today and the cycles of borrelia that they know about today its ability to hide reproduce shed bleb and what not and no one in MS field seems to know.
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oxygenbabe
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This is sort of horrifying to read about . It is also disgusting it was not pursued. In granule form, the spirochetes are likely resistant to antibiotics, that's the point. Ugh. I liked the idea of a concomitant virus--it would explain the variability in susceptibility.
Thank you for posting all that.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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The photos in the middle of the article are what Bb usually looks like inside the human body. You will almost NEVER see the classic corkscrew shape.
A sample can be totally septic with granules, cysts, and other variant forms... and the elusive spirochete that is being looked for is never found.
Read the article too... Some interesting stuff.
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oxygenbabe
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There was just an embargoed article (will be out in a few days) on the fact that some bugs may be good for us. 75% of us are infected with h. pylori and have no symptoms, and in fact the researcher speculates that the inflammation created, low grade, by low #s of bugs may be protective. As we eradicate h. pylori rates of stomach cancer go down but esophageal go up.
But for the percentage of people who get ulcers from h. pylori, they want it eradicated.
Perhaps it is similar with the spirochetes. Maybe many folks can keep them in check or they don't lead to M.S. But for those who do, they need them eradicated.
Becaues the researchers are such idiots about this they look for uniformity in the response to the infection. Even though we know that with all pathogens, some will harbor them and not get ill, and others will get ill.
We are slowly moving toward a better age of genetic testing and then maybe as that becomes more commonplace there will begin to be a better understanding of genetic variability in handling pathogens. But thats a long way off.
Although, I also think that lyme was bioweaponized and made worse, and that with all the coinfections around in ticks today, that makes it ten times worse.
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posted
I believe it might have been the original Trep (syphilis) spirochete that was weaponized (Tuskagee experiments)and that is what Lyme is.kt
Posts: 740 | From BC Canada | Registered: Mar 2003
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I have an old paper related to the Steiner corpus. It claimed to find Steiners silver staining bodies in numerous conditions (I forget which ones, but if I recall correctly they werent all inflammatory).
Anyway, working on that sort of thing with an optical scope is tough, and tho there may be some value in doing so, I personally havent tried very hard to sort out the controversy over data generated using methods that are now essentially obsolete. Immunoelectron microscopy offers much more definitive data. And this has been done in this century by the Brorsons. They found spirochetal organisms (in small numbers) in MS cerebrospinal fluid. There can be virtually no doubt about the spirochetal nature of the bodies they imaged, but in order to prove that their presence contributes to MS (rather than being a secondary phenomenon) it would be nice to examine for them in brain tissue proper rather than just cerebrospinal fluid.
Which would only take a little money, relatively speaking. But it hasnt been done. The Brorson paper has been 99% ignored, not for one, but for several years. You can read the full text (minus the crystal-clear, heavily-labelled IEmicrographs) here: http://www.lymenet.de/literatur/brorson2001.htm
None of the heavyweights in the research establishment are giving this idea attention. Stratton and Sriram demonstrated Chlamydia pneumoniae in MS and were much more successful in getting attention. However their finding has been somewhat "neutralized" by disconfirming followups by other groups, and there is a haze of controversy. Something similar occured in the 1990s when the Balin group demonstrated C pneumoniae in Alzheimers disease... however the Balin group has been able to press on nicely by using Cpn to cause partial Alzheimers pathology in mice. MS pathology is probably much harder to generate - I believe it is normal for most aged humans and mice to show some trace Alzheimers pathology even if they have no Alzheimers. Alzheimers appears to be an intense form of a very common phenomenon. Borrelia, by the way, were observed in Alzheimers by A Macdonald and by J Miklossy, but not by R M(a)cLaughlin.
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quote: I believe it might have been the original Trep (syphilis) spirochete that was weaponized (Tuskagee experiments)and that is what Lyme is.kt
Borrelia and Treponema are actually not all that similar if you look at the genomes.
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klutzo
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Thank you all for a fascinating, if frustrating thread!
My first of two misdiagnoses was MS, the second was FMS.
I now have a friend who is dying of the Progressive form of MS, and still will not listen to me when it comes to even getting tested for Lyme. Her brain has now passed the point where she can reason anyway.
It took me 12 yrs. after my doctor told me "all FMS is Lyme" to finally get tested. I simply did not believe it, and even changed doctors. I thought she had lost her mind. It was only when my personality changed and I started having rages that I finally faced it.
When the denial about Lyme is so strong in probable/potential patients, is it any wonder the medical community follows suit?
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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LymeEd and Treepatrol (sorry I missed you earlier),
You are brilliant researchers to uncover these articles! I think I may go to the med school library and see if I can make copies from the original journal articles to send to all the docs, esp the neurologists, who saw me last year.
Thank you for your time and effort!
Patti
[ 23. February 2006, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: psano ]
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Hodo, I know the spirochetes are different in that Trep chete is less sophisticated and has something like 16 aspects (can't remember the term while the lyme chete has 125), but any good effort to "alter or weaponize" it, would explain this wouldn't it?
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Jellybelly
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Tree and Ed,
Hope you don't mind, but I have copied this info to my website for easy access. Credit will be given to both of you. Thanks.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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treepatrol
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quote:Originally posted by hodologica:
quote: I believe it might have been the original Trep (syphilis) spirochete that was weaponized (Tuskagee experiments)and that is what Lyme is.kt
Borrelia and Treponema are actually not all that similar if you look at the genomes.
I know but they are spirochetes and they all do this shedding blebing cysting dont they. Think when artical was written 1954 they didnt have the equipment that they do today. Dosent seem like the equipment has helped today does it still what good is knowing the whole genome if it just sits there?
Like having a red corvette and being blind. Dosent do you any good?
If your going to war and dont know the differance between attack bugle and retreat your in trouble huh?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Michelle M
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Extremely impressive research find. Thanks. Fascinating. Amazing. And very creepy, to read about intact spirohetes in a post-mortem brain. Makes you think, "But for the grace..." or "But for LymeNet..."
Michelle
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treepatrol
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95. Czekalowki JW; 1954 Formation of granular structures by Leptospirae as revealed by the electron microscope. Journal of Bacteriology,67:619-627.R Eaves G.P
Leptospira began to show granulation after 2 weeks in a culture. The granules were spaced regularly within the bodies of the spirochetes. After four weeks larger type of granule appeared which was broader than the body of the spirochetes.
These were later "shed free." By the 5th to 7th month, there were no spirochetes observed; the culture contained only granules. The granules consisted of "what appears to be short segments of leptospiral body embedded in homogeneous substance.
The authors conclude that the formation of granules represents a rhythmic and constant process and hence these granules must play a role in the life-cycle of leptospirae.
Theres another spirochete.
46. MacDonald AB. 1988 Concurrent neocortical borreliosis and Alzheimer's disease: Demonstration of a Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, spirochetal cyst form. 539:468-470.
Page IV In vivo finding of Borrelia burgdorferi cysts in an autopsy of a human brain. An unexpected observation was the identification of cystic forms of the Borrelia spirochete in dark-field preparations of cultured hippocampus, and in imprints of hippocampus...
A cystic form of the Borrelia spirochete would explain the ability of the microbe to persist in the host during a prolonged period of asymptomatic clinical latency, which spans the period between primary infection and the expression of tertiary manifestations of neuroborreliosis.
Zajkowska JM; 2002 New aspects of the pathogenesis of Lyme disease. Przegl Epidemiol, 56 Suppl 1:57-67. Hermanowska- Szpakowicz T.
From the abstract: Morphological changes of B. burgdorferi as well as changes in expression of surface proteins caused by environmental determinants are essential in pathogenesis of Lyme disease.
Cysts, spherical form spheroplasts, L-form and `blebs' gemmae can be responsible for long lasting antigenic stimulation, signs of chronic borreliosis, and even probably connected with MS and Alzheimer disease.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
oxygenbabe
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Remember that in the 1950's someone describes the syphilis spirochete "shaking" itself like a dog throwing off water, and throwing off granules.
I expect they are like seeds or spores, and more important than cysts (the kind where the spirochete wraps around itself and becomes "inert" and later gives birth to daughter spirochetes) in continuing infection. They are probably completely resistant to antibiotics, and unlike cysts, they probably do not degrade over time.
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Marnie
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A % of MS patients are believed to suffer with an underlying Chlamydia infection.
Bb and Chlamydia share many of the same nasty traits. Endothelial damage, heparin receptors, etc.
Research is zeroing in on ALA and NAC (esp. cysteine)as possible nutrients that might work for multiple, complex reasons.
Prof. Bruce Ames may have found "another way" with his Juvenon.
(There IS more than one path to wellness, I believe.)
Way too acidic...way too much TNF alpha and free radicals happening in lyme disease...
"blockade of XO activity by pharmacologic (N-acetyl-l-cysteine or allopurinol) or molecular (by small interfering RNA) approaches significantly attenuated HIF1-alpha expression. Exogenous H(2)O(2) stabilizes HIF1-alpha protein. XO was present in these cells and was the
primary source of free radicals."
PMID: 16489029
"Antioxidant agents such as melatonin and ascorbic acid+N-acetyl cysteine, are capable of limiting pancreatic and hepatic damage produced during AP via
restoring tissue antioxidant enzyme activities."
PMID: 16482627
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posted
Tree et al, Thanks for finding and posting this research. As one who was diagnosed with MS years ago and who wasted valuable time pursuing worthless "treatment" at the hands of a well-reputed neuro,I too, am disgusted with the medical community for discarding this research. And yes, they did it for the money. Too many pharma companies are making a lot of $$$ selling their expensive injections that the MS Society strongly endorses.
It's sickening. But now that I know the truth, I'm attempting to regain my health. A tough job, as you all know, but one that I won't give up on.
Posts: 34 | From New York State | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Tree et al, Thanks for finding and posting this research. As one who was diagnosed with MS years ago and who wasted valuable time pursuing worthless "treatment" at the hands of a well-reputed neuro,I too, am disgusted with the medical community for discarding this research. And yes, they did it for the money. Too many pharma companies are making a lot of $$$ selling their expensive injections that the MS Society strongly endorses.
It's sickening. But now that I know the truth, I'm attempting to regain my health. A tough job, as you all know, but one that I won't give up on.
Posts: 34 | From New York State | Registered: Oct 2005
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wow--you guys are the best for digging this stuff up!!!!
If you are interested in a long read about chronic illness, onethat really illustrates the ways in which multiple government forces ally to keep information from being disseminated -- I suggest "Osler's Web" by Hillary Johnson.
It is about the history of "chronic fatigue syndrome" -- the cluster outbreaks, the doctors involved, the politics of secrecy, etc. Really an enlightening read.
But prepare to get really angry while reading it!
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Leonard Cohen, from the song "Closing Time" Posts: 822 | From California | Registered: Jan 2006
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treepatrol
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-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
LymeEd and treepatrol thank you so much for sharing this valuable information. As someone who was diagnosed with MS as a child and had other Lyme symptoms ignored, I am appalled.
How could they be soo cruel?? I guess some people just refuse to see the big picture. Others see it and ignore it for profit.
I wasted good years of my youth not knowing what to do and listening to drs who didn't know squat.
I am trying to raise awareness to anyone that's been told they have MS. I find they won't listen. They just hear drs and they wait for me to get well to believe they should get tested for Lyme ...
I'd like to give these articles to my lyme dr who still asks "how's the MS?" when I enter his office. I find that frustrating.
Do you have the link for the original?
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troutscout
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Very good stuff
-------------------- Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within. Let the claws be bared, and Lyme BEWARE!!! www.iowalymedisease.com [/URL] Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002
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treepatrol
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up
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
CaliforniaLyme
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Great thread, Tree*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Keebler
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Thanks so much.
Tears for all the damage the burying of this info. caused.
Knowledge must be passed on.
I'll copy and paste . . . read better later . . . pass along
I have 2 friends in wheelchairs from MS, one is positive for lyme but the MS doctors say that doesn;t mean anything. She goes with that and goes downhill.
the other friend said the doctors say if it's MS, that's it. I could not convince her to have a lyme test. She can't move or even use the toilet by herself. But she trusts her doctors.
These articles may help so many people.
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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quote:Originally posted by treepatrol: I have copies of tons of files and the other day I was reading them because network was down I came accross this in one.
Sure caught my attention isnt this crazy clear back in 1954 this guy relized this.
As someone who was msdx with MS I get angry every time I read about this. Of course they know. But, neurologists might not make as much money if they cure their patients would they?
Posts: 24 | From Maryland | Registered: Aug 2007
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These shouldn't get lost in the forums. Is there an actual Web site where this type of research literature review can be presented?
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