lymebytes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11830
posted
I can only say long term artemisinin. At first it was thought 6 weeks of this would cure it, then 6 months now it is thought one year on Artemisinin.
My LLMD treats with it and gives the option of taking a very large dose in one day - every couple of weeks OR 200mg twice per day 3 weeks on 1 week off for as long as it takes.
Probably doesn't help much. I have the same problem with Ehrlichia - can't get rid of it, the medications do not agree with me and I am at a loss.
posted
My wife tested positive for Babesia and took Mepron/Zith last year for a few months. It failed to eradicate the Babesia.
My personal belief is that you need to treat Babesia for 12 to 24 months continuously in order to fully clear the parasites at all the hatching cycles. Obviously such a lenghty treatment would not be possible with Mepron/Zith because of the side-effects and insane cost. That's were herbs come in - they're relatively cheap and can be tolerated indefinitely.
My wife's been on Artemisia Annua tincture since January. Her Babesia symptoms have decreased by about 80 to 90% (Mepron/Zith never achieved this). She plans to continue for another year or more on it to make sure it gone for good.
There are other "add-on" herbs we are contemplating for her Babesia treatment which could act in synergy with the Artemisia Annua. We might start Myco Capsules from Raintree. It contains 7 or 8 South American herbs, several of them with known anti-malarial properties. We also recently purchased an anti fungal formula from "Quantum Herbal Products". It's a tincture containing around 15 herbs, many of which are anti-protozoan such as Pau D'arco, Olive Leaf, Neem, Oregano and several others.
So to all the Mepron/Zith flunkies: try a prolonged (12-24 months) multi-herb protocol, with a bit of switching-up/rotating between formulas (you might just eradicate other bugs in the process).
Posts: 655 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Great, thanks for the feedback and I welcome more.
I think I would prefer a tincture. I have the artiminisin capsules by Allergy Research Group. How are these different, anyone know? Does a tincture have the same neurotoxic possibilities (esp. ears/hearing) that the artiminisin capsules have?
Currently I've begun with holy basil and oil of oregano along with magnesium powder. I plan to add heparin in on Sunday and continue to add new things in slowly and hopefully see a success.
The babesia is a real conundrum to me so far and the lyme is no easy thing either.
But I definitely won't subject myself to the same attempt with mepron/zith again, unless I get on my deathbed and haven't choice about it.
At the same time the mepron/zith was helpful, and was what I needed at the time. Just not curative. Maybe helped take a layer or two off. I'll know more after results of next Fry test.
posted
Babs can be difficult .... I was on Mepron/Biaxin/Art for nine months, then Malarone/Art/Lariam for 6 months, now back on Mepron/Zith/Art/Enula for about two months. I've been treating continually for 17 months now and STILL have symptoms of it!
(I was on other Lyme/bart drugs with those drugs)
Have you tried the enula? I know it's helped me with parasites, but I don't know about the babs .... it's not been out that long yet to know.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Where does one get the tincture for art? I have a hard time with the capsules.
Posts: 561 | From eastcoast | Registered: Aug 2006
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Nutramedix Enula
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
I'm not a for-sure cured case yet, but it is looking very good.
My doctor used MTE9. After 7 mths of biaxin, ammoxy, I was still testing positive for Babs. My doctor gave me IVs of an herbal concoction for Babs. She gave me 4 weekly IVs and explained it works by grabbing the Babs whole and removing it from the body whole so there is no herx reaction. I certainly had no herx reaction and felt very good while on the MTE9. I was also receiving a push of glutathione at the time. Glut always makes me feel wonderful.
3 weeks after completing the MTE 9, blood was drawn and first time I received a negative. Dr requires 2 negative tests before she feels we can move on to something else.
The blood was drawn at last visit for the 2nd test and I will get the results on my 6/30 visit. I will post the results when I get them.
There are other MTE series for other things such as MTE13 for mold toxins.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
You might consider a drug called alinia , which can be purchased online or in Mexico.
You need to second check this , but do a search on "nitazoxanida " or " kidonax " . They MAY be the same as alinia , but some here have posted alinia to be helpful with babs .
I am interested in the art tincture and would like to know where to purchase .
One of Groovy2 's friends has expressed that his babs has been helped by good old bactrim.
posted
Excellent! Thanks everyone so far and I hope others know more.
Luvs, good luck with that. Sounds promising. Is that like a Myers cocktail? I have an absent gene for glutathione so I am sure that would be helpful for me. I have noticed the hardest part of this disease is actually finding people who will be helpful.
Finding people who will be able to see the truth and the whole picture, and who can understand the complexities and the the truth, has been the most back breaking, fear inducing, insanity producing part of this for me. Probably for a lot of us.
Plus the cost of effective treatments. And lack of personal organization! This has been beyond nightmare. I wish the healthcare system was better.
I am unable to take bactrim, I believe it is a sulfa.
The main babs symptoms for me are shortness of breath, brain instability/vertigo ish ness, and malaise. (what I can remember now) Oh, and feeling like something is tied and tightening around my chest and back at the heart lung esophagus level, constricting my breath. Might be a nerve (lyme).
posted
Im trying Enula right now after being unable to tolerate mepron and zithromax for more than 6 weeks. So far im doing 15 drops 2xday though i know Dr Cowden recommends 30 2xday so im working up to that. having some die-off so its definitely doing something but too early to say whether its kiling babesia or not. have also been on artemisinin for 21 months now but dont know exactly what that is doing either! Am feeling pretty good lately though, my main symptom of babesia is fatigue and that has lifted alot since i did the mepron and zithromax. Im feeling some fatigue as part of the enula die-off so hope its working! I heard someone say that that Pc-Noni helped get rid of their babesia also.
Posts: 45 | From PA | Registered: May 2008
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posted
The new research on Artemesia/Artemesinin says to take the herb for 4 days and take 4 days off. Then repeat the cycle.
Several years ago when we didn't know any better hubby took the Allergy Research/Nutricology brand for about 1 1/2 years without breaks -- did not do much.
Cryptolepsis herbal tincture was somewhat helpful.
Finally resorted to malaria drugs -- Chloroquine and Primaquin -- got a clear bloodslide from Fry. But 6 months later new LLMD felt Babs still present. Have herxed on parasite med Alinia -- continue on this med currently. Plan to retest with Fry in August or September.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Research claims grapefruit juice TURNS off the enzime that destroys ART in the 4th day, so, if you drink a cup of that juice with your daily art, and you should take art every hour! Grapefruit juice messes with alot of liver enzimes so beware! Anyway, so thats the way around that. Glucosmine is claimed to kill babsia I forgot how, its in the babs book. I also hear lyme loves it.
Plaquneill, lariam, art, low dose malerone took me back, I added bactrim later. WE dont see any babs in my blood anymore, havent since Feburary, but still on tx due to some probly hidden inside cells. I was on other drugs, but these where my babs combo, and I was almost always on a certain abx, which was rotated. I do believe any abx has some anti babs activity, or to at least keep it busy so it cant find resistence.
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posted
Some folks expressed interest in a tincture of Artemisia Annua. My wife gets hers from her ND's medicinary, not sure where he sources his inventory.
I would think if you googled it you would find some sources. A good quality tincture should have that fragrant smell of Artemisia Annua tea, but much more concentrated.
I think tinctures have superior systemic absorption over pills. The compounds get absorbed directly into the bloodstream through the capillaries under your tongue.
Posts: 655 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
luvs 2 ride, please keep us informed on your blood test results. i am very interested in that mte9 thing you have going on. i want to kill this babs more than anything.
thanks john
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
NM enula
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
comments? additions? This topic is too important to let fizzle!
Disclaimer: of course discuss any treatment with your doctor first. But we are looking for non-prescription alternative treatments you can do, working with your doctor, when you have clear babesia symptoms but no positive test, which may "tie your doctor's hands" with regards to getting you a prescription drug.
Let's keep the ideas coming...
Posts: 111 | From Nowhere | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
I would not attempt anything before reading each of the Zhang, Buhner and Schaller books.
posted
Quina , banderol ( nutramedix ) have also been suggested for babs , with enula.
Personally , I believe babs is my biggest problem. IMO , the worst herxes and the twitching sensations always come for me with oil of oregano ( NOW product ) . I believe it kills babs .
There are 2 other people here who had SUCCESS with herbs from Seven Forest Formulas .
Other possibilities include cryptolepsis and teasel , andrographis .
posted
Painted can you try Malarone? I know it is not natural and I wish I had some natural advice for you.
I did not do well on Mepron so I was switched to half a dose of Malarone (1 pill a day) which I took for months. I have not been retested but I think I might have kicked out babs.
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
nutramedix enula
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Would like to ditch Mepron and Zithromax after 6 months of feeling the same and worse. The cost is one hassle that gets laid on top of insurance not helping, and oral antibiotics gut issues. Maybe a simple, cost effective solution is better for many of us?
At some point we all need to find our own paths. I'm willing to figure it out with the boardies now.
I've always felt that Smilax did something goog for me. It does clean the blood according to Buhner.
Will
Posts: 111 | From Mid Michigan | Registered: Feb 2008
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I would not attempt anything before reading each of the Zhang, Buhner and Schaller books.
From there, you will have some better ideas.
-
Keebler, I will do that, and post my suggestions here. If anyone else who has read all 3 wants to post their suggestions, that would be great!
Schaller book = The diagnosis and treatment of babesia.
Buhner book = healing lyme
Zhang book = ??
What I notice on this site is that 5 people will agree with and show evidence pro-whatever, and another 5 will strongly refute same. As you say, its for the individual. We don't ever seem to all agree on something major. I wish we would once in awhile. Makes me lose hope that we'll ever be cured of this. Posts: 111 | From Nowhere | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Another member here posted success with artemesia annua extract , and I just purchased some from Horizon Herbs .
( He gets it from LLMD and LLmd supposedly gets many herbs from Horizon . I could find only this formula on the whole net .)
I will keep you posted as to success . I am self treating ( necessity ) and also on Bactrim. After several weeks on bactrim that were HELL , I am not so weak . I think it is working somehow.
I will add the art extract and also do quina ( nuramedix ) and grapefruit seed extract along with one oregano oil capsule daily ( NOW ) .
I plan to eventually add alinia . If you are interested in Alinia at reasonable price , ask Groovy2 for directions or advice . He has been extremely helpful to me .
There is no bulletproof formula .
Some suggestions :
add glyconutrients as they intensify the effectiveness of ABX ( they pack a punch ! so start with 1/8 tsp )
Add enzymes or bromelain to your regimen . Digestive enzymes are supposed to potentiate effectiveness and help with tissue penetration.
I will keep you posted as to my progress . A few months on bactrim alone knocked me down hard . There have been anecdotal reports of bactrim helping with babs by some other members . Many of us have to self treat .
I am amazed by how many people have NO success with even mepron/ Zith , so it seems this is almost a crapshoot .
charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
....I'm possibly the original bactrimoid...If you do a search using my name and member# (25) and the keywords bactrim and or septra you'll come up with a bunch of stuff that relates to babs and lyme both dating back to 2000.
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
BUMP --- This old post was enormously helpful to me -
I really appreciated yainvanaced ' s suggestions. I started on the liqiud artemisia annua tincture, along with grapefruit seed extract , and slowly saw visible improvement . I hope this thread helps others.
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
Dr K's protocol is 500 mg of Artemisinin 3x / day with Grapefruit Juice, 2 days in a row each week, 3 weeks on and 1 off. It takes a year
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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blinkie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14470
posted
cryptolepsis with artemisinin
Posts: 1104 | From N.California | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Dr S Babesia book is my bible. 2 years of treatment with malarone and a few bottles of mepron and I'm down to a 5 % load of Babesia.
I used Zhang's art-2. I believe the combination has worked well for me.
Malarone worked well for me by yet my adult son has done so well on Mepron. If one doesn't work try the other.
Oil of Oregano or Oreganol is used for Bartonella not Babesia.
Now if I could get rid of this mold.......another story. It's always something.
My opinion is that you can't get rid of Babesia in a few months. It takes a long time and the most difficult of TBD to get rid of.
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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posted
Does Art kill bacteria broadly? I ask because I am now only on Mepron because of recurring c difficile, had been taking A-Babs but found it was hurting my recovery from c diff. by killing the good bacteria in my gut which I had transplanted there. So only on Mepron 3 weeks and one week off, woudl love to add in art but not sure if it would hurt the goof gut bacteria too? Anyone know?
tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
Grapefruit seed extract (Agrisept-L by Nutridiem) worked for my entire family when over a year of Mepron/zith/Artemisinin could not. We had both strains of babesia.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
How does one determine the exact load of Babesia they have? Just curious. I'd like to measure it myself!!
quote:Originally posted by Elaine G: Dr S Babesia book is my bible. 2 years of treatment with malarone and a few bottles of mepron and I'm down to a 5 % load of Babesia.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Bloodwork, symptoms and I think his years and experience with dealing with Babesia.
Which tests my doctor uses to gauge, I never asked but I know he can tell when I am killing it off since I am bursting red blood cells and the count is lower.
I'll have to ask him that, next appointment.
Posts: 671 | From Fort Myers, Florida | Registered: Jun 2009
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annxyzz
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20404
posted
Tickbattler I would love to know more about the dosage of the GSE you took . Was it a liquid or drops or capsules ? Can you share the dosage?
I have been reading ( searching ) old posts and find that many people fortunate enough to have an LLMD are given artemisia annua ( or artimisinin ) and grapefruit seed extract for lyme & or babs . Many old posts indicate that it was very useful.
These two herbs with rife and made a huge difference for me also .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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tick battler
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21113
posted
The dose I took was 10 drops twice daily mixed with juice/water. Agrisept-L is a liquid and you can get it on ebay for about $17. The person on ebay that I get it from is kiverson.
You should work up slowly in case you herx. It also kills candida.
Hope this helps.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
"Dr S Babesia book is my bible. 2 years of treatment with malarone and a few bottles of mepron and I'm down to a 5 % load of Babesia."
- I agree. I have been reading Schaller's books on Babesia. He has a knack for explaining it in a way that everyone can understand. I would say everyone with Lyme should read it.
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