Topic: Frontline Plus is working on my lyme scope update 10 days now
jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I know this is CRAZY, and am not endosing this but.
I have battled a 32 yr case of lyme for about 1 yr already largely with conventional meds, abx, etc.
I bought a Phase Contrast 2500x magnification scope, and learned to do live blood microscopy on myself at home, daily, or even hourly.
After finding I was LOSING the battle on ABX without question, I started to play with various compounds.
I then tested frontline plus directly on infected blood, and realized some magic in there.
I then dosed my skin with 1`dose of 132lb dog dose of frontline plus, also sprayed my home with "roach birth control" which is safe BTW, as the "birth control" is considered NON TOXIC, and even used in india in DRINKING WATER!
Results after 10 days: NO adult lyme whatsoever seen for many days now. It appears the "birth control" (S-methoprene) is preventing adult formation of lyme!!
AND even better, MY BLOOD PLASMA has been close to 100 percent CLEAR of any moving infection invaders. This is BIG, as even massive dosed ceftin at 3-5G a day! didnt yeild this, (ceftin was very effective though).
I learned a trick to "pull hiders" out of red cells by placing mag oxcide on the blood, and the live bugs would run out of the red cells into plasma, so I learned that frontline plus seemed to be unable to kill the bugs inside the red cells effectively. When the hiders ran into plasma, they would soon die!
I then remembered ART how it kills maleria INSIDE the red cells, so I used it, and within 2 hours, perhaps sooner, I discovered art WITH frontline plus would kill almost 100 percent left inside the red cells, at least upon my mag oxcide trick.
So, recap, it appears frontline plus kills just about everything I could find in plasma, even bart! It also appears the birth control part of the frontline plus (methoprene-not toxic btw at all) prevents the lyme from reaching the spriokeet stage. I also discovered that frontlines toxic (to bugs considered VERY toxic, VERY low toxicity to humans-and it has a very high margin of safety in humans) compound that kills fleas directly (fipronil) appears to also kill lyme disease in live blood, as the bugs all appeared in plasma at least to die promptly.
However, art was NEEDED to kill inside red cell infection, as hatchlings and CWD lyme appeared protected in the red cells.
To be posting updates at least weekly as I test this crazy alternative TX.
I further discovered actual DATA that show fipronil's action on insects gaba receptors (in humans its viturally considered to uneffect our gaba recptors due to variences in they way gaba works in us, and insects) actuctually makes sense that it would work against lyme.
the study is confusing..and I dont have the site, but heres a study cut out. Below, it appears blocking lymes gaba channel would cause lyme to overload with Ka (potassium) which appears quite toxic and also appears that frontline plus with B6 SUBLINGAL version, and supplimental mag added would enhance this potassium channel clog in lyme and surely kill it.
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jamescase20
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posted
Below is a cut and paste of the study of lyme and its also edited slightly by a nurse who knows what shes talking about. The end is some words from her she sent in an email to me. The study was pasted orginally from her, and I have no idea where she got it.
TURNS OUT FRONTLINES FIPRONIL IS ACTUALLY A .ZOLE DRUG. ITS A PYRAZOLE COMPOUND AS STATED BELOW.
Pyrazole compounds useful as protein kinase inhibitors...
Which OTHER protein kinase do you think should be inhibited?
Bb already has a PKC inhibitor...that's the problem!!!
I'm trying to counter that...and so is the body... by primarily upregulating calcium influx and PGE2 to activate a channel Bb is blocking ( = TRPM4) via its PKC inhibitor.
Mg-ATP transfers phosphate groups.
That's what kinases do.
Bb is INHIBITING a kinase.
I'm trying to get Mg back in the cell so it will bind with ATP and then deliver the phosphate groups to the right amino acids to send the right signals forward to our defense cells.
Bb's PKC inhibitor is impacting TRPM4. Because TRPM4 is ACTIVATED by PKC. That means Bb is preventing the activation of that channel.
This is what can rescue that channel:
Phosphatidylinositol 4,5-bisphosphate rescues TRPM4 channels from desensitization.
How do we increase the above?
We prevent it's breakdown by phospholipase C.
What does that?
CONCLUSION: Magnesium sulfate appears to inhibit phosphatidylinositol-4, 5-bisphosphate-specific phospholipase C activity and subsequent calcium release in cultured myometrial cells by a direct effect on phospholipase C.
Or...
Fipronil (in Frontline ) which blocks chloride channels (GABA -A and GABA -C) but NOT GABA-B...
PLEASE click on this link ( it is a chart that lists what genes are upregulated and downregulated when the GABA B receptors are triggered:
Fipronil is the first phenylpyrazole insecticide introduced for pest control.
It is effective against some insects that have become resistant to other insecticides,
and exhibits low mammalian toxicity.
Although fipronil is known to block GABA receptors, the mechanisms of its selective toxicity and efficacy against insects with dieldrin-resistant GABA receptors are not fully understood.
We studied the effects of fipronil on the inhibitory glutamate receptor-chloride channel complex, which is found only in invertebrates.
It is concluded that the potent blocking action of fipronil against glutamate-gated chloride channels may contribute to the higher toxicity against insects than mammals, as well as the efficacy against insects resistant to other insecticides."
"Flea collars contain fipronil. This blocks GABA-gated Cl channels (normally inhibitory), thus preventing hyper-polarization resulting in excessive neural excitation, hyper-excitation of the nervous system of the fleas leading to their death but sometimes effecting the animal wearing the flea collar as well."..
Which kinase do we need to inhibit if any?
Found it...PKCe is up!!! That's the one we need to inhibit.
mice *lacking* a form of the enzyme protein kinase C (PKCe) are supersensitive to their brain's own calming neurosteroids and exhibit
reduced anxiety
Protein Kinase Ce Regulates Tumor Necrosis Factor-a-Induced Stannin Gene Expression...
PKCe regulates TNFalpha! Proinflammatory. It also triggers COX4...and COX4-2 upregulates ROS.
angiotensin II (All) activates PKCe, PKCa and p44/42 MAPK pathway, (b) PKCe, PKCa and p44/42 MAPK overexpression inhibits All-induced CYP11B2 gene transcription and (c) overexpression of PKCe inhibits CYP11B2 gene transcription through p44/42 MAPK activation .
What is CYP11B2?
CYP11B2 gene encodes a key enzyme for the production of aldosterone....
When aldosterone is high...the old drug, spirolactone is given.
This is what it does:
Spironolactone (marketed under the trade names Aldactone, Novo-Spiroton, Spiractin, Spirotone, Verospiron or Berlactone) is a diuretic and is used as an antiandrogen.
It is a synthetic 17-lactone drug which is a renal competitive aldosterone antagonist in a class of pharmaceuticals called potassium-sparing diuretics, used primarily to treat heart failure, ascites in patients with liver disease, low-renin hypertension, hypokalemia, and Conn's syndrome as well as high blood pressure.
On its own, spironolactone is only a weak diuretic, but it can be combined with other diuretics. About one person in one hundred with hypertension has elevated levels of aldosterone; in these persons the antihypertensive effect of spironolactone may exceed that of complex combined regimens of other antihypertensives. Due to its anti-androgen effect, it can also be used to treat hirsutism, and is a common component in hormone therapy for male-to-female transsexual and transgendered people. It is also used for treating hair loss and acne in women and can be used as a topical medication for treatment of male baldness.
Oh...(forgive the profanity) ****!
BOTH OF MY CHILDREN ARE PRODUCING WAY TOO MUCH PKCe! (Son, ADHD, seizures, learning disabilities, and a form of autism...very easily stressed. Na problem...can't hold onto it. Daughter...asthma, cortisol high, acne, type "A" personality, very smart...too much GABA A)
Both of them need Mg and sublingual B6 for certain.
If this is the "CURE" than I would love to be the first to shake your hand!!!!
I have read that overloading with potassium can be quite toxic, so if you could clog the channel are you saying that by doing so you would be killing the Lyme?
This is very, very interesting stuff.
I would love to hear more thoughts on this.
Did you have any side-effects from doing this? Have your Lyme symptoms subsided?
Elizabeth
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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It has been suggested that methoprene (the main ingredient in Frontline Plus) is responsible for killing and stunting the growth of lobsters in Narragansett Bay. (Wikipedia)
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
james-be careful. the permethrin in frontline plus will kill ticks. but it also hurts peopl big time if you put it on your skin. it will give you neuro symptoms like you lyme.
some frontline plus has the permethrin-some doesn't . when they took it out i started seeing ticks on my dog again.
but becareful-don't put permethrin on your skin and read up on it. it is very bad when combined with deet. may be the cause of gulf war syndrome. really -be careful.
my daughter's a chemist. there are probably tons of things that will kill keets...but they will kill you first
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
WAKE UP!
Frontline plus no longer, if EVER, contains the permathin you suggest.
FIPRONIL and METHOPRENE is all it contains.
and fipronil is VERY low human toxicity and methprene is considered NON TOXIC.
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jamescase20
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posted
I couldnt give a care if lobsters are killed with methoprene, I do care however, if this killed or retarts lyme.
And, BTW, I am not dumping methoprene in the ocean either.
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tickbattler
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posted
Very interesting James. I'm curious, are you currently treating yourself with this chemical?
If so, how are you doing it? Are your symptoms abating?
posted
yes I am and yes my symtoms are now lifting.
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
James, I love reading about your experiments. I loved using my play microscope as a kid, I really wish I had a good one now. I would be doing the same thing as you.
Do you ever take requests?? Like if someone asks you to try something out for them???
I hope that this proves to be the golden ticket, that would be a blessing for all of us!
posted
This is very interesting, as I use Frontline Plus on my dogs and cats for that matter....religiously, every 3 weeks here in Fla. Last Sunday one of my dogs, the INDOOR one had a HUGE tick on his neck and I have never ever seen one so attached as this sucker was!
My cats also have had the tick problem this year as well.
Odd that the animals are still having issues (not with fleas tho, just ticks) and this seems to be working under the micro.
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lymielauren28
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Member # 13742
posted
Wow James! I don't know if you're really brave or just really crazy, but either way that's fascinating.
Be careful and keep us posted!
Lauren
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I just found something amazingly distrurbing about ART
I bought some "super artiminin" and then waited 2 hours as before ( I had tested the frontline plus with wormwood- NOT the purifed artiminin) and it appears the super art didnt kill the hatchlings inside the cell.
But I have to recheck again to be sure I am right.
I am thinking plain old wormwood is better then the refined ART, at least perhaps for lyme INSIDE the cells. I had been using about 1900mg wormwood a day in a single shock dose, and it was cleaning up the bugs hiding in the red cells. and the frontline plus cleared the plasma fully. and it continues too. In fact..I think I hardly even see blebs anymore, which suggests again, that the birth control agent is preventing ALL adult lyme, as belbs are shed of adults appearently only.
To be continued...to soon to be sure of anything at this point.
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Certainly. You deserve it if you find it. You're willing to take risks many would not. I commend you for trying to self-educate yourself to the degree you are. If there is one thing I've determined over the years, it's no one cares more about your personal health battle than you. You'll always be most determined.
Keep us updated please. Also, it would be so much better than having to fly to Germany, pay a huge expense, and do something most people can't possibly comprehend how it works.
quote:Originally posted by jamescase20: Get up there to the top!
This is going to pan into a cure guys/gals...I am convinced of this..I consider it almost fact already.
Please, if so, allow me to take the credit!
JAMES A DERWIN, Aurora, IL USA
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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lpkayak
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posted
this is crazy...and dangerous
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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lymeloco
Unregistered
posted
James, it looks as if your desperate for a cure. We all are, but you need to listen to your doctor. Things we get better but you need to slow down and relax.
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posted
James, You are amazing! It is exciting that you willingly share your discoveries though one can expect nay-sayers. I'm a risk taker, too.
My primary symptoms seem to be from neuoBb. If I purchase frontline-plus tomorrow for 120 lbs dog and dose my skin what can I expect my head to feel like?
[I'll spot test first for allergic reaction.]
No problem spraying home for roach-birth-control - not sure where to find it here in the desert. Maybe I can order both the S-methoprene and the mag oxcide from an online source. What brands did you use?
I take gabapentine at night. Is this something I need to stop during this test?
My shopping list then would be: Front Line, S-methoprene, Magnesium Oxcide and sublingual B6.
FYI: Every 2 weeks one of my holistic docs provides me with a push of Phosphatidylcholine + Glutathion + B12, and the rest of the B12 shot into my tissue (hip).
What should the timing on my treatments then be?
Posts: 212 | From Arizona | Registered: Jul 2008
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
grace-i wonder if you are joking. you go to a holistic doc and you are considering covering you body with chemicals that have warnings on them
dr james schaller wrote an article that was published in public health alert titled:
The First Thing Is Insight: the Reason Millions are Lost
i'll try to come back and post a link-but you can probably find it by googling
two of my kids are scientists. they would be shocked at this post. it is iresponsible. this disease makes people's brains not work...and makes them think they are making sense. they make science fiction stories about this.
hopefully james is just pulling our legs about it all.
there was a warning on lyment for newbies once-maybe we should bring it back
quote:Originally posted by jamescase20: Results after 10 days: NO adult lyme whatsoever seen for many days now. It appears the "birth control" (S-methoprene) is preventing adult formation of lyme!!
AND even better, MY BLOOD PLASMA has been close to 100 percent CLEAR of any moving infection invaders.
James - what level of herx did you experience?
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Hahahaha,
You guys are making me laugh.
first of all, Fipronil has a US govt MDS sheet that shows its very close to NON toxic, and carrys only the whimppiest warning. Its considered LOW toxicity in humans. And thats the BAD ingredient.
And methoprene is NOT TOXIC to humans whatsoever in the Govt MDS sheet. Methoprene IS right NOW used in your food stuffs RIGHT NOW guys. Cows are fed this, its sprayed on corn, etc....
Fipronil works on INSECTS gaba receptors NOT humans...so fipronil likely carrys NO RISK AT ALL in humans..or any animal that has a spine, YOU HAVE A BACKBONE RIGHT? If so, you dont use the gaba receptors fipronil has. It WONT affect you.
To ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS:
1. Fipronil is said to NOT cross the BBB, but I think its only partly true...I would use it with art...perhaps unrefined wormwood...but wormwood is more toxic then artiminin is.
2. Drug drug interactions with frontline plus. Thats an unknown area here...but I CAN tell you I took a valium the other night and had some tough nightmere that night...fipronil works on insect gaba, some "without any data or proof" claim fipronil DOES work on human gaba, but I dont buy that notion. Fipronil is a .ZOLE drug, so, I would caution alcohol use, and avoid other drugs that are hard on the liver if possible. Or, just consider fipronil is flagyl, and follow its interaction guide.
3. I saw fipronil dissolve cyst forms of lyme, so its a zole drug no question. The herx is VERY tough, I notied it was very much like a bart herx mainly, next morning after dosing was awaken with all joints hurting, like as if I took rifimipin the night before. I noticed it does appear to kill everything. Bart too.
4. Roach birth control uses (S) Hydroprene, instead of S methoprene, notice the HYDRO? thats there so you can mix it with water for spraying. Its the SAME chemical, there are several variences, but they are all the same.
5. To the freaks out there, Frontline plus happens to be one of the most widely used pet medication. Surely you have already been exposed to these chemicals fipronil and methoprene. If you used this on your dog or cat, you would be suprised at the levels you get into your blood from just touching your cat or dog even days later. Your all paranoid freaks!
You do realize that frontline went though long and double blinded studies before introduction right? Do you know its been about 20 yrs in the market already? Do you think your herbs are safer even though NO ONE DID ANY STUDIES ON THOSE HERBS?
Epfedra was on the market for thousands of years, yet our govt PULLED it off health food store shelves due to people having heart attacks, but somehow you feel the govt frontline studies is hogwash, but you DO STILL use it on your pets?
Are you so selfish that you would put poison on your pets that you wont consider any exposer too yourself? I got some bad news, as I said, your ALREADY BEEN EXPOSED TO BOTH OF THESE CHEMICALS, and there safe.
So you freaks...show me your proof that this is so dangerous...you say its so terrible but yet you have no clue whatsoever what your talking about. I do know what I am talking about. I even posted research that tends to validate even that this could actually be working. Fipronil is used in roach bait, years ago a baby somehow ate about 200 roach baits...the baby was rushed to the ER, the baby didnt even get sick from it. They expected the baby could die, but it didnt. Turns out the doseage to kill a human is hundreds of times larger then what kills an insect.
Since fipronil was introduced, there is only 1, I repeat 1 death from human fipronil overdose!
Boy I wonder how much fipronil the person drank to die from it? I bet about 300 frontline, MIGHT kill someone, and thats DRINKING it.
Did you know it took 2 grams per KG to kill a rat in the studies?
Thats 2 grams of fipronil (pure fipronil-frontline only has 9.8 percent) rubbed on a 2 lb rats shaven body, it took that much to kill it.
Yet frontline contains for the 132 dog, about now I am guessing a bit here, but about say 1 gram at most of pure fipronil.
Okay, so...you rub (I rub) 1 gram of fipronil on my skin I weigh 160lbs, and I am going to die huh? but if I was a rat I could rub at least 159 frontline 132lb dog treatments on my skin and just be close to death.
Did I rub 159 frontline plus on my skin? Could I? I dont have enough skin. I couldnt do it.
Maybe I could somehow concentrate it and kill myself with it.
Or I might drink it...no, but I am not stupid.
Are you stupid?
And these warnings on the box are there only because its never been used in humans NOT because its not safe too, but, because they didnt see a reason to use it in humans.
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I should add that in my vetenary PDR for dogs and cats this direct quote from fipronil information pasted below.
"Fipronil is being tested or is already in use to control of number of parasites on other animals, HUMANS, and crop plants in the US and worldwide."
So, Fipronil is also being used on foodstuffs.
Tough, your eating frontline plus in your food, you morrons.
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Hey freaks..read this...below....I didnt realize it but BOTH of frontline plus actives are sprayed on your food! You BETTER go all organic if you expect to hide from it. And get rid of your pets...RUN from dogs and cats in the yards..NEVER touch a animal, NEVER treat for termites (they use a spray fipronil for termites) Allow
"Fipronil is a broad-spectrum insecticide, used to control cockroaches, ants, fleas, mole crickets, ticks, mites, subterranean termites, and agricultural pests. It is found in flea treatments for cats and dogs, such as Frontline�, and roach and ant bait traps for indoor use in both residential and commercial settings. Fipronil may also be applied outdoors for ornamentals, lawns and on rice and corn crops.
Fipronil disrupts the insect's central nervous system and is a suspected endocrine disruptor. Concerns about human exposure to Frontline spray treatment were raised in 1996 by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, due to the risk of chronic inhalation and skin absorption by commercial pet groomers and veterinarians. This led to a denial of registration for the spray product in New York State. In 1999, upon reviewing additional data, the product was registered. Fipronil use in agricultural settings has also raised concerns about harm to bees and other beneficial insects.
Fipronil is considered safer than other pet flea and tick products, such as those containing carbaryl, malathion, dichlorvos or naled.
Children can be exposed to fipronil by touching treated pets or by opening baits and putting them in their mouths. They could also ingest residues of fipronil by eating foods treated with the pesticide."
I know DDT was a disaster, but this is NOT 1940 anymore, they have better research today, and this frontline is NOT new either...its been used widely for is it 20 yrs now? That to me validates the govt was right about it. And so, I am using it. You do what you want...but if you dont ever get better...dont blame me!
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
how many miracle cures is this now james?
i dont recall nearly all of them, but hoe about paxil, ambien, and others killing lyme and the "babies"?
every time its a new cure. youre going to kill yourself dude.
abx work. ask any dr, ask me, ask the 1000s of others who are now better
its not going to happen overnight
youve been treating one year and abx are not yet curative so lets start latering on the chemicals onto the bodies biggest organ, the skin?
please stop
and newbies, please SOB before someone gets seriously hurt
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
Yes, my other treatments did kill lyme hatchlings, but left too many others intact.
And its well known that abx generally cant kill the hatchlings or CWD lyme very well, if at all.
I presented my finding...you decide reality.
And lyme is not about how one feels...thats not the answer...when you herxed did you then abandon treatment? No, you stayed on the drug since the herx meant its working.
I've been on this for 11 days...do you think thats long enough to "feel better?" I dought it.
But, yes, I DO feel better honestly, and for the past say...5 days I have been feeling less fatigue and joint pain.
Note to self...dont waste my time posting on lymenet anymore. Its pointless.
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Paxil was shown in a controlled study to act as a effective "efflux pump inhibitor" in a related gram negative pathogen. derick. I guess you dont remember that.
Ambien appeared in a blood smear applied directly to instantly kill lyme hatchlings and CWD lyme. When ambein was used by me internally, I would find LESS lyme hatchlings/CWD lyme in my blood smears the next morning. That would appear to kill lyme derick.
Hey, do you have a phase contrast microscope?
Was that a "no"?
If so, where are you coming up with the notion that I am spurtting off treatment protocol experiments without any rational reasoning to do so?
I have rational reasons to suggest the things I have suggested, every single one of them.
Wheres your rational reason to suggest my phase contrast 2500x microscopy studies have no merit in reality? Or, are you just "running off the mouth again"?
Expert MD Majid Ali has over 25 yrs experience as a practicing MD, and a pathologist and was clueless as IDSA and finally picked up a phase contrast microscope, when he did, he got the clue. It was only then did he finally start to find out that live blood microscopy or, even "dead" blood microscopy was the BEST way to search for illnesses and pathogens.
Guess what...I have a phase contrast scope too, so I have information you simply dont have.
So, are you shooting off of the mouth? Or am I?
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I am being misquoted left and right here, if you CANT read dont reply.
I NEVER said ABX dont work, I said they cannot kill hatchlings and CWD lyme, as a general RULE.
ABX DO work, but not very well, and they screw up the body even worse.
Basially, in ABX use, you kill adults...over and over as the yes, babies hatch...then finally grow to adults, then the abx murder them.
So, in a severe infection, you have to wait...yrs perhaps...to finally rid the infection, if ever.
I am just posting my findings.
I guess this is too deep for most here to grasp an understanding of this.
I need someone knowledgable in this feild to compare notes with. Appearently I am not going to find that here.
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Did you cover your body head to toe with the Frontline? Or just rub it on one part?
-------------------- Diagnosed with :yme and mycoplasma pneumonia Aug 08. Treating with Doxy and Ceftin ever since. 15 sessions in hyperbaric o2 chamber Posts: 183 | From all around | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
James, you've got verifiable proof and you're the ones taking risks. Why do you let these other members get under your skin so much? It's your body.
You've got disclaimers on every thread to cover youself. It sounds like you've educated yourself quite well on risks of these products. In fact, you seem to be much more aware of risks of taking these than most here, including myself, are of long-term Abx use.
Try not to let everyone's comments so negatively impact you. There are some that appreciate your research. Most people if not all, while as educated or not as you on these very alternantive protocols, just are expressing caring about your health.
Now no one lives in your shoes and I don't know what your life is like day to day. That's one thing I notice on Lymenet. Members' level of sickness varies so much. One is ill because they can't do 50% of their pre-Lyme days. I consider sick being unable to work, do daily activities, etc.
There's always a risk / reward trade-off. If you're working with your LLMD and he/she endorses these studies, I think that has some merit. I wouldn't think someone in that position would be so naive to let you hurt yourself.
Please don't leave. Just take care of yourself. I hope this comes across right James.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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To be clear, it may work on a microscope slide. However, there is no verifiable proof that this would work in a human for treatment of lyme disease and no proof of safety.
There is not one LLMD who would endorse human use of Frontline Plus in ANY manner as a protocol for treating lyme. That is absolutely certain.
Yes, we are all concerned with safety. There are multiple safety concerns with human contact with the ingredients in Frontline Plus.
Are there various ways to treat? Sure. But there are many protocols that others have done very well with that have not yet been tried here. Many - both allopathic and complementary.
Protocols are not easy and take time - sometimes, more than one year of strict adherance (with some room for individualized changes under a LLMD or LL ND guidance). Sometimes, it can take years to get better.
Still, we all understand frustration and the desire to blast lyme out of the solar system. If you simply cannot find a protocol that appeals to you - if you are interested in breaking out on your own - how about going back to basics, see how you do and go from there ?
Even just taking garlic or allicin can have huge benefits and few risks - as long as one ingests wisely and within reason.
Allicin also attacks biofilm. It is antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal and good for the heart and arteries.
Sometimes, something simple can be good. So, what about garlic? Or Allicin? Those have been used for centuries and do work for many infections. Some find it helps tremendously for lyme. And it prevents candida.
Allicin, biofilm - one abstract (and other research outside of PubMed listings)
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[ 22. November 2008, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
James,
I understand what and why you are doing this research, but what is a LYME HATCHLING?
Are you referring to a spirochete, parasite,worm?
Can you confirm what pathogen you are seeing under your microscope? Is there any way a lab could do this?
Perhaps as another experiment you could thro some sea salt or garlic on these pathogens and see what happens.
I would really be curious. You are an out of the box thinker which is a good thing,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Dawnee
Unregistered
posted
James don't stop posting on lymenet just because of naysayers...that would be unfair to the rest of us who are interested in your studies.
Ignore those who only want to complain.
I think your findings are always interesting. I'm tired of "only listen to your doctor" Apparently... doctors aren't able to cure Lyme so why only listen to them???
Keep on with your studies James, be as safe as possible. And keep us updated.
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Garlic didnt appear to kill the bugs when I tested it directly on the smear.
I see many keep thinking somehow that taking blood out of my body and placing it under scope does not count as a "in body" testing of a given compound. But if I took the compound internally or absorbed it via skin and checked my blood thats not a beaker study, thats a "real reality study".
Whatever they call that.
A lyme hatchling appears as the smallest form of lyme on a scope...it appears as a tiny hovering dot or speck. A lyme "bleb" is shed from a active adult and it looks like a small ball, and they hover in the same pattern, actually ALL lyme forms hover in the same pattern. Thats how you can tell them from other bugs.
And I did have a natural path doctor who tested and helped me figure out how to do this testing myself.
BTW, I told her about frontline plus, and guess what she did? She said shes going to try it!
Shes been battling lyme for 3 yrs and shes facing the exact same issue I am...she cant kill the hatchlings. If you had a phase contrast scope and learned this you would likely see the same problems we are. Thats partly why I have been posting...your shooting in the dark...so is your doctors treating strictly clinically, without much for measuring results but "how you feel", and how one feels in lyme is often backwards. And yes, my llmd fully agreed with me that lyme is a paradox, the worse you feel, generally, at least for a while, the MORE your killing. In other words, if you herx...the TX is working, if you dont herx...its not working often the case.
In the top of this post...there research explaining the connection to fipronil to GABAabc (not in mammals btw, only beings without a backbone are affected) lyme DOES NOT have a backbone, and the potasium channel, and if you know much, you can understand that this fipronil should block lymes Ka channel if it does, it should kill it.
My nurse friend who dug up the study comments in the post above at the end of the study giving her view of the fipronil connection to lyme bugs.
And you know what, I do think these invaders are simple insects and strongly related to them. Acutally, there PLFs is what they are.
Primal Life Forms, coined by a expert in this, he found that PLFs contain MANY of the same genes (EXACT SAME GENES) in humans. They where on earth before animals and humans where, there are great..... grandparents.
He further suggests that due to this gene match with humans, perhaps this is a clue as to how they can "hide from immune attack".
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
I should have said garlic didnt kill on a smear test, but I never really did a though test taking garlic and watching blood, so it may have merit, it just didnt readily kill in a direct to slide test.
Are you saying there's nothing to see (infection-wise) under your scope since you've began this treatment?
That's fascinating...
-------------------- Diagnosed with :yme and mycoplasma pneumonia Aug 08. Treating with Doxy and Ceftin ever since. 15 sessions in hyperbaric o2 chamber Posts: 183 | From all around | Registered: Jul 2008
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Thanks for the feedback James. I am on the salt/c (sea salt) protocol and it is working.
The parasites and worms just hate it and leave. That's why I was wondering if you used salt on them.
Also, I saw on comcast news this am about doctors finding and removing a worm from a womans brain.
They thought it was a tumor and said they are seeing more cases of this.
I decided to google in brain parasites and found a load of great info as to how they are masters at evading the immune system and how they do it.
Unfortunately I don't know how to copy and paste or I would have definitely shared. Way too much to type.
I really feel that parasites and worms play a MAJOR role in this disease. Burgdorfer found filaraial worms in the ticks as well as keetes.
Do you think what you are seeing under your scope could possibly be microfilaria? Have you tx yourself for parasites James? Any success?
Well, Please keep us informed as we all want to get rid of these invaders,
Thanks for your efforts,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
James does his research before he tries out his ideas for treatment. He is informed about any potential risks and accepts the fact that there may be unknown risks as there is with most any treatment.
I do not think he does any of this out of desperation, but out of necessity. The facts are that little is being done to cure this disease.
A rational person might come to the conclusion that if they expect a cure in their lifetime, they are going to have to come up with it themselves. While it is a long shot with many failures almost guaranteed, it still is more likely someone will find a cure if they are actually looking for one than if they are not.
He is using the best methods he can under his circumstances. I do not think you can ask for any more than that.
He also does not recommend anyone else try it, but the information is important even if it is not used.
I hope he ultimately is successful, and takes all the precautions he can to prevent potential bad side effects.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Frontline� Plus for Dogs (Red Box) Australian Version, NRA Approval No. 54523 4.02 mL 100 g/L Fipronil & 90 g/L (S)-Methoprene 40-60 kg
USA Version, EPA Reg. No. 65331-5 0.136 fl oz (4.02 mL) 9.8% Fipronil & 8.8% (S)-Methoprene (by weight) 89-132 lbs
Advantix Active Ingredients: Imidacloprid; 1-[(6-Chloro-3-pyridinyl) methyl]-N-nitro-2 imidazolidinimine: 8.8%, Permethrin: 44.0% Other Ingredients: 47.2%.
Comparing
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Iam reading a nematode artical NematicideReview
Most nematode species are ``free-living''; i.e., they feed on microorganisms in water and soil. A smaller number of species are ubiquitous parasites of animals or plants. Indeed, Nathan A. Cobb (1), the father of American nematology, stated in 1914:
I know this qoute is old but I took it out of a new review. Anyway this why I think this is woorking and by the way I was looking at these conections years ago. But I dont have the $$$ for a scope like you and am listening to your experiments. Be careful not to make a mistake you should be okay as long as you move slow enough and dont make a mistake.
Not saying you will just wish I could have a scope too hahaha
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Yeah, I didnt check today but I did last night.
After a 2G wormwood dose on top of already in blood fipronil and methoprene dosed about 12? days ago.
Result was nothing at all found moving (invaders) in plasma, and LESS bugs where found in the red cells hiding. And when I used magnesium oxcide (my trick to pull bugs out of the red cells) on the blood smear...perhaps say 50 live invaders came out...they appeared to be lyme hatchlings and CWD lyme...you wouldnt believe how many forms of CWD lyme there are...luckly when there still alive...viturally all lyme forms hover slowly in a circle like pattern. Anyway, I saw as usual a marked reduction of live hiders after a spike dose of wormwood. Strangly and disturbingly, the refined artiminin seems less effective. Likely due to my using it to kill lyme rather then babsia.
No, I cant seem to find any adult lyme anymore after about 1 day into the frontline plus experiment. While I watch the display, I sometimes THINK I see a baby adult here and there...but as I watch...I seem to dought that I was seeing a baby adult. (A baby adult under deress will appear as a VERY short straight stick and 1 bleb on each end...(bleb-very small or larger black round object without any features-cyst forms are round from small to larger but they appear not as pure black but they contain tiny black dots on them..this is where the hatchlings come out...and even keets...under deress it appears the tiny dots will come out of the cysts INSTEAD of the actual KEETS when they hatch-this is why I coined them "lyme babies" as they simply really are. I have a hunch...and from watching these guys for months on the scope, that the babies are simply a alternative form of lyme that hatch out of the cysts due to stress detected by the bug and so it forgoes having actual keets come out of cysts and thus uses "hatchlings" (tiny black hovering dots) from cysts, since the babies are largely safe from most ABX.
I did find augmentin seemed to kill the CWD and hatchling forms, but again, not that well, and the augmentin didnt appear to STOP nor slow down the hatching...thereby leaving you sick as hell...continuously.
And thats why augmentin is another dreaded drug..it kills all forms of lyme..not all that good, but it does...so everyone goes into a horrible herx and then abandons the drug. Plaqenell also without any question in my mind directly kills the hatchlings and CWD lyme...but again, the herxing is horrible...and it dont stop the hatching...so you herx...more or less continuouslly on either of these mentioned drugs.
Flagyl breaks up the cysts, but theres many hatchlings that where close to "birth" when flagyl breaks the cysts...and so those close to hatching are forced out...but since they where so close to hatching time...many dont die! , therefore..I have witnessed an INCREASE in bug loads on flagyl rather then a decrease...thus you herx like hell.
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
You around James whats the reports on Dec 1?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
I am out of town, my moms lyme is back...she txed for 3 mo with various abx and then stopped tx against my suggestion and sure enough she got stabbing toe pains and I knew that mean TBDs.
Anyway, She against my advice took a 6lb cat dose of frontline plus and same as my response, she got joint pains surge...runs...then drop of stabbing pains soon after...about 2-3 days for her, me about 7 days...but I ended up taking 4 doses of FLP.
Well, I gummed up this experiment with abx as I have pulsed some abx...but surely they didnt work that well before so there not going to work that well this time.
But...on scope checks...I can rarely if ever now..and I check at least daily find any invaders in the plasma...I can however pull out live CWD but not adult lyme from the red cells...however they appear to promptly die once exposed to the plasma. (within about 2-30 mins I couldnt find anything alive) This is certainly something killing them as these guys will survive on a smear for days.
So, it appears to be holding plasma clear..and blocking formation of any adult lyme. I did find 1 baby adult lyme, but it was morphing back and forth every few seconds! weird..from CWD to baby adult...and it then appeared to die. I have started using benzopens for sleep and I have a concern that benzos may undermine fipronils action.
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
so glad the invaders lyme babesia bleps and babies are all being eradicated by flea and tick collars!
super scope tells all.
most accurate way to tell if something is working is to put it on a slide and dump the agent on it.
never mind the ratio to what is on the slide and what you ingest is grossly different or that no medical or scientific training is going on here.
the scope tells no lies
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
momfromtexas-
you know nothing about how bacteria survive under a microscope nor does anyone on here know how the amount of "buggers" in the blood correlate to the amount of active bacteria in the body.
james is taking blood or saliva samples i assume.
Bb and all company are NOTORIOUS for hiding in the muscles, collagen, etc etc and are usually not proliferated IN the blood.
take a LP for example for disseminated lyme.
only 20% of patients who have a LP AND have active chronic neuroborrealis actually test positive for the illnes vis CSF.
so...... 2+2=........ i think you get the point.
what is going on in the scope does not correlate to what it is going on in the BODY.
furthermore, what is going on in james body does not correlate to what is going on in anyone ELSES body.
another example. lyme testing.
horrible, no?
thats because the buggers rarely are in the blood.
i could go on and on.
i am not knocking the idea of treating the illness with new approaches.
i am advocating keeping our cause somewhat sane and refraining from making it a mockery.
apparently there is a slew of people who's only concern is their own betterment and thus the reason we are all still on these boards.
if we could unite as the aids movement did, become rational, and spend our time getting the recognition we NEED for this illness, it would be a different story.
instead we spend out days experimenting with flea collars and no doubt 2-3 months from now it will be a different novel substance under the scrutiny of the magic scope. cant wait.
until then i suggest we start unifying in a more productive way or we will never get anywhere.
we need experienced QUALIFED people (ie, the government) to do the research needed to help us get the upper hand with these superbugs.
AIDS is LESS prevalent, LESS deadly, and BETTER treated.
why?
THEY UNIFIED and came together in order to get the recognition they needed in order to get the research they needed.
hence the current treatment of AIDS, HIV, and the like.
where do you think all the anti virals, anti fungals, and so on and so forth come from?
from AIDS funding research.
there are CONSIDERABLY less posting and activity in the activism forum.
why?
this is the only way we will ever get from point a to point z.
if we all keep going the way we are it will be an exercise in futility.
granted, some of the smarter more diligent ones will put together treatment programs that will help them regain their own functionality, they will move on, and the cycle will repeat.
this is no way to tackle the problem that is lyme.
and this is no way to gain accreditation from places we so desperately need.
and thats my 2 cents
and yes, its free
cheers
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi All
WoW James
Thanks for sharing your findings - Very interesting -- keep researching -
One thing I noticed from reading this post and a few other posts--
The people here on LN sure have been in a Bad mood--
I quit posting on LN for 1 month and you guys are at each others throats --
The last 2 times I quite posting for awhile when I return people are arguing and saying things they really dont mean -
Hey - Im not going to be on LN Forever to Cheer You guys Up --
So Be calm and Be thankful you have LN --
Here is something that sounds Wacky but Really works--
A friend of mine took in a stray dog - The dog was in Horrible shape--
It had Mangee (spelling) the dog had lost ALL of its fur- and was scratching Non Stop 24x7--
I took care of the dog for 2 weeks while my friend was out of town--
I talked to a old man who told me to mix old Burned Motor oil and sulfur powder from the plant store snd apply it to the dog --
So I mixed up a batch and rubbed it all over the dogs skin -
I did this treatment to the dog 3 times-
After 2 weeks the dog was growing fur back and was barely scratching at all --
In 2 months the dog grew his fur back everywhere---> Bow WoW -Jay-
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
What does everyone seriously have against this guy? Geez.. If activism is the goal, I'm sure 90%+ of this board is behind you. In one breath you say that government research is going to help this cause, then on the other hand a million posters are coming up with reasons why Lyme is a government bioweapon hidden for 60+ years.
What on earth makes you think they care now if they've purposely refused to recognize this terrible illness? I'd like to believe they are just too blind and stupid to see the suffering, BUT WE KNOW this is not true. It's blindness on purpose. Unless people physically revolt and go the White House doors in millions demanding respect, we're out of luck. Showing "underground showings" of Under Our Skin to .0001% of the population and charging $40+ for a copy of the film isn't going to blow this up to the mgnitude needed.
I'm all for positive change, but I think everyone is chasing pipe dreams given the history and circumstances. If anyone ever will find cures, it'll be guys like JamesCase or the rife machine inventors or others who aren't in it for the money. Even with people lke Dr. F, what happens if he finds a magic cure? The company loses their revenue from blood smears and other diagnostic tests. If these diseases can be spread as easily as believed, it's a huge loss of business.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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The burned motor oil and sulfer is used widely where I come from too. Except we try and shave off any existing hair first.
Works great, I think it works by smothering the organism.
Later,
Julia
-------------------- Please consult your LLMD before making any changes to your treatment regimen. Posts: 641 | From NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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I sincerely doubt there have been longitudinal studies regarding the carcinogenic effects or neurological impact of Frontline (and all of its nasty chemicals) on humans. You're playing with fire.
James, this really makes me equally sad and mad. Sad-that you have been sick for so long that you'll try anything; that the traditional wisdom of our non-traditional LLMDs has failed. I am truly pained to know that you have struggled for so long to find answers, and recover your health.
But I'm also a little mad. It seems irresponsible to post this when your information has no true "research" to back it up. You're pitching this to people as a viable option. REALLY??
You're a sick guy with a microscope and a computer, and a blister pack of Frontline. Do you understand the mechanism of frontline in an animal-human or otherwise? It's not an antibiotic.
The critics of Lyme could easily read this and simply-AGAIN-dismiss us for a lot of other things than sick.
-------------------- Mountaingirl
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 138 | From West Virginia | Registered: Sep 2007
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Thank you Mountaingirl for saying that. I too have been very concerned about James that he is desparate enough to apply toxic insecticide to his skin.
I have been even more dismayed to find some posters cheering him on in this dangerous and potentially damaging pursuit, as if this is a "freedom of speech" issue.
I am reminded of a recent sad case, where a young man took an overdose of sleeping pills in front of a webcam and in front of his online community.
According to the news, many members of that internet community cheered on this young man, told him to go for it, and many watched for hours while he died.
Finally, after many hours passed, someone from the board contacted that board's moderators and they contacted the police. But it was too late -- the young man died.
James, using this insecticide on your skin or ingesting it is potentially dangerous and could be seriously harmful to your health.
As others may be interested in following your lead in this, it is irresponsible to suggest it by example to others here on lymenet. I hope you will delete all your threads on Frontline Plus.
James, I hope you will visit an llmd, find one that you trust, and stick with treatment for as long as they suggest.
It takes longer than anyone would want, but most people eventually recover from lyme and co-infections with proper treatment with antibiotics and antimicrobials.
Some people cannot tolerate antibiotics. In that case, there are many safer treatment alternatives that have been used and well-researched, such as Buhner's Healing Lyme herbal protocol.
Treatment is not easy, but staying sick is harder in my experience. Good luck to you and let us know how you are.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Thanks for a few posts of sanity regarding safety. I've posted one above - way above and amid many cheers for this.
This is not about free speech. With free speech comes responsibility and the right of others to question the content of that speech.
This is not about freedom to try new things or things outside of the box. We have the freedom (so far) to try many goo9d things.
There are MANY safe complementary approaches or methods that have been employed by some patients but not by those saying, "well, we have to do this, nothing else works."
Plenty else can work - or help.
I suggested looking at garlic, even. But that was not taken up. Garlic, has many medical abstracts behind it. I am puzzled why cleaning chemicals and ingredients from flea collar won out over garlic? Allicin even helps in treating MSRA.
And - lyme does not hang out in the blood stream. Looking on blood samples will not show lyme. And, if it could, the process for checking blood stains after exposure is not based on academic principles of in vitro vs. in vivo.
Even a sixth grader with a science project has to follow a certain academic progression of procedures.
Using chemicals that are toxic and, potentially neuro-toxic and fatal, would not even get into a science fair.
It's great to wonder and to explore. But please do so following guidelines as you may have learned in school.
But, first, has the wheel already been invented? You might give some other protocols a try. Many have been helped.
And many have also been helped with abx protocols with nutritional support. But it's a process that requires one step at a time. If you can stick to something, give it a chance, and you may find you don't need to explore with toxic chemicals.
Those here whose criticisms - of the WORK - are valid. I'm sure james is a nice guy. It's the work that is of concern and the manner in which so many are cheering work that would not hold up in a science fair as having followed safety measures first. Remember the basics of science classes.
As a former professor of research methods (in journalism, not science, though) I am deeply troubled by this thread. We must stand up to a high standard of research methods.
There are, probably, many professors or retired professors in biochemistry who might enjoy tutoring in a limited capacity for those wanting to learn the basics of research.
Scout them out. But first, please read more of the literature about how lyme works in the body and how the liver works, etc. I'm calling on everyone to read from the experts in the field before going off in uncharted waters.
After reading all that has come before, then, with certain measures in place, there may be new things that come to mind. We obviously have far to go but we need to become familiar with those who have already blazed some trails.
posted
James, I respect your right to research treatment options for yourself. I'm concerned that your experimenting with toxic insecticide on yourself is not treatment though. Increasing your load of toxins is likely to catch up with you.
I doubt that you have the knowledge and skills to correctly recognize what you are seeing under a microscope. The borrelia would probably be too small for you to see. If the toxin kills the Lyme, you would probably get a herx. Since you apparently get a herx from flagyl, it would make more sense to take that.
Think about what might happen to your mother. If it was not for your "experimenting", it obviously would not have ocurred to her to take the insecticide.
I worry about your kids. If you use it on them or they are exposed to excessive toxins, then many consequences are risked. It is your job to protect them.
I hope you talk to a knowledgable medical person and reconsider what you are doing.
Posts: 158 | From Ecuador | Registered: Apr 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
By Marla Cone - June 18, 2003 in print edition A-21
Men exposed to pesticides widely used on crops are many times more likely to have defective sperm and low sperm counts than males with little or no exposure, according to a scientific study published today .
The study provides new evidence supporting a theory that pesticides and other chemicals which mimic estrogen or block testosterone are harming human reproductive systems.
It is the first time that scientists have shown a link between environmental contaminants in men's bodies and large decreases in the number and quality of their sperm.
. . .
None of the men in the new study worked at or lived next to farms, where the pesticides are most commonly used. They were most likely exposed through drinking water supplied by aquifers, Swan said.
. . .
``We also wonder what else it is doing to these men, and what it is doing to the rest of the family, the women and children. . .
. . .
The scientists wrote in the study that they adjusted the data for factors known to affect sperm, including age, race, smoking, abstinence and diseases, which they said left pesticide exposure as the only known culprit. Seasonal temperature differences can also affect sperm, but that effect would not be so large, Perrault and Wang said.
. . . .
- Full article at link.
======================
Also of help in understanding the exposure of insecticide can be found in searches for:
So where do we get this Microscope from and how can we learn to do the live blood analysis!
I would love to learn and test myself to see if ABX is working. Not sure if I would ever try your stuff but I think there is meritt in live blood analysis.
Chootik
Posts: 247 | From Ca | Registered: Feb 2007
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
I may be wrong, but aren't CHEMOTHERAPY DRUGS HIGHLY TOXIC POISONS?
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
In response to chootik's questions about where to learn more:
You can order DVDs of past ILADS seminars - there are discussions here about how to determine if treatment is working and why it is impossible to do a blood test to determine so as in other infections.
The uniqueness of lyme is explained in many of the seminar sessions.
May 2008 Volume 39 Number 5 LABMEDICINE www.labmedicine.com - American Society for Clinical Pathology
CHRONIC BACTERIAL AND VIRAL INFECTIONS IN NEURODEGENERATIVE AND NEUROBEHAVIORAL DISEASES
- by Garth Nicolson, Ph.D.
-
[ 06. December 2008, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Wow James I think this is so interesting and i admire all you work. Gael asked about garlic as well as salt. There has been a lot of talk lately about salt and some say it kills these bugs and parasites etc on contact and too if we put a lot of salt in or systems it could or would make an environment where they could not live.
Whats your view.
On the Front line.. How long have you been doing this and how exactly are you doing it and with what else etc/?
Would you mind sharing your personal protocl at this point in detail for us to learn from or ponder on or try.'
Thanks Much DEB
KEEP GOING James. This site has quite a lot of one sided thinkers and its part of life.. I admire you for continuing on and I understand it might be easier to talk to someone else who has a scope etc.
Have you shared any of this with any other doctors who are doing research etc. I see a doc who has his own lab and has been doing research for a long time on this issue.
posted
Great Keebler - Now we have probably lost James from posting on this forum...
Please let me remind you what A. Schopenhauer (do you know who it was?) once said: ``All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident.''
And BTW, Think how Einstein "stood up to a high standard of research methods" thinking about relativity in patent office room (where he worked as clerk).
New things usually do not come from known, old places, neither from retired professors...
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
why is everyone being chased away and discouraged from posting what they feel or believe..
i am feeling like this is not a very mature or friendly community
From all that I have read of Keebler's wonderful posts on this and other threads, she is obviously very interested (and incredibly knowledgeable) about all kinds of science and scientific methods.
Her comments to James were made out of kindness and concern for his welfare and for those people desperate enough to try some of these dangerous methods on themselves.
We all would love to find a cure for this horrible disease, but encouraging someone to put their life at risk for our perceived benefit is not the way to go.
Thanks, Keebler, for being a brain with a heart of gold!
Jeanne
Posts: 345 | From East Coast | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I hope that I'm off base, but James experimenting with pesticide on himself gives me the creeps. It seemed a little like the adolosent boy in Florida who commited suicide online. Some were egging the Florida boy on and others were trying to get him to stop.
James may be doing well, but it would give me a sense of relief for him to make another post. No doubt, others here are worried about him.
(I'm not saying that James would intentially harm himself.)
Posts: 158 | From Ecuador | Registered: Apr 2006
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I guess I cannot make the connection between someone committing suicide and someone trying to cure Lyme disease. One is trying to kill themselves and the other is trying to live a normal life.
No one wants James to harm himself. But I doubt he is going to stop because his experiment is unpopular. Some people are just not inclined to be politically correct.
I did not stop my experiment with MMS and it resolved all of my Crohn's symptoms. Not because it was popular but because the properties of Chlorine Dioxide were precisely what I needed for a treatment.. How many hundreds of warnings were issued on that treatment? Lots of ridicule to boot. Drinking Pool cleaner. Drinking Bleach. Does it ring a bell. Where are the bodies?
Thank goodness I am old enough to think for myself or I would be in for more surgery in the future.
I still have not seen any evidence that the chemicals James is using are lethal or even harmful at the doses he is using. If someone could actually produce evidence I am sure he would take that information seriously.
I hope if someone does know of some danger he has not already addressed they let him know.
To keep repeating pesticide treatment is not going to make a difference. Garlic is also a pesticide. The two words combined do not automatically make something dangerous.
Please provide some evidence of why it is dangerous at the dose he is using. Science minded people do not respond to non scientific opinions. They do respond to real, known dangers.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Hi Dan I too am scientific and need to see proof and not just opinion. I have not seen any proof that what he is doing is dangerous either and what he has written has actually pointed more in the direction of how safe it is due to testing on animals and as well animals that will be around children who pet them and will put their fingers in their mouths etc.. It has been tested to be safe.. not harmful.> SO if it helps him. great. I have not seen him on here and so maybe he is sick of just defending himself and not being able to just share.. I hope he comes back to chat with us... I am intrigued by him and and support his braveness and efforts to do something for himself.. Of course I hope nothing goes wrong and as well maybe people take many herbs and supplements never tested at all.. And we all can have reactions based on our individual bodies that might be harmful or risky.. But we all make our own choices for our own bodies.. and that is how it is for all of us. Thank goodness. Deb. THANkS for the ongoing thinking and reasearching to find something to cure or kill the bugs that keep us so sick.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
In this study from Duke University, even 28 days of low-dose chemicals on the skin - combined with stress - results in damage. Stress hormones are sky high with lyme. This article can have implications for other chemicals, too.
"Mix of Chemicals Plus Stress Damages Brain, Liver in Animals and Likely in Humans"
excerpts:
" . . . But a decade of neurologic research has revealed widespread damage to the brain, nervous system, liver and testes of rats exposed to 60 days of low-dose chemicals -- the insect repellant DEET, the insecticide permethrin, and the anti-nerve gas agent pyridostigmine bromide. . . . "
. . . " . . . demonstrated that the combination of stress and short-term exposure to chemicals (28 days) can promote cellular death in specific brain regions and injury to the liver. . . ."
- This article also shares insight about Gulf War illness, as may be related to this research.
- Full article at link above.
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[ 07. December 2008, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I hope James looks into this information.
Boy, it sure makes you wonder how this pertains to standardized treatment as well.
Thanks for bringing this up. I am going to look into it also.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
James...Im not going to wade into the debate on whether you should or shouldnt test this stuff on yourself. While it goes against safe testing methodology to test on yourself directly, you're the only one accountable for your own actions.
My point I would make, if you're not already doing so, is to make sure that everything you do, every sample, all formulas, all equations, all times drawing samples, amounts of contrast, amounts of ingredients, etc, etc.. be documented for your own safety and the safety of others if you go forward and pursue copywriting any type of cure for killing Bb.
The more scientific and clinical your testing methodology, the greater the chance for duplicating success, and avoiding possible deadly combinations. Also, the more precise the written testing, the better the chance you can pursue a possible grant, or collaboration with other labs in the US that could possibly take your ideas and expand, improve upon them.
If you can successfully duplicate your merits over and over, then by all means, take your documented proof to a respectible lab to see about possible further testing.
One of the better think tank labs in the midwest is the UW-Madison/WARF. http://www.warf.org/
Good luck...and please...be careful!
Posts: 514 | From . | Registered: Apr 2008
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Hi James I was wondering if you were taking a break to help your mother or if you just left or if your busy or if your coming back /?? I keep an eye on your posts and would love to hear how your doing as well as how your research and testing is going.
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