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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » New information about bartonella

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Author Topic: New information about bartonella
lymie_in_md
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Check out the following articles it maybe more dangerous and prevalent and isn't transfered by just a tick, especially these newly found strains:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090106145006.htm

http://www.healthkey.com/sns-health-bartonella,0,652927.story

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Bob

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Keebler
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-
Bob,

Thanks so much for this important information.

". . . At least 26 strains of Bartonella have been named worldwide, and the list is growing. . . . "

Who knew?
-

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billclo
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And this one concerning Bartonella Kholerae being discovered in humans (previously only known in cats):

http://www.parasitesandvectors.com/content/3/1/76

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hadlyme
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Great articles! Biting flies... hm... my only bite I remember is a horse fly bite!!

Interesting and glad I'm with the llmd I'm with. He's onto the Bart thing big time.

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Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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lymie_in_md
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It's funny, the rife crew doesn't understand why they can't totally get rid of bart using 832, it could be there are too many varieties and the targetted frequencies only eradicate some not all. It may mean more frequencies need to be discovered. I applaud those interested in rife to better understand it use. it would be great to understand rife much better. It may be required in order to battle pathogens so diverse and so misunderstood as bart.

By the way, I wouldn't have known about it unless I went to the IOM. There was a lot to be learned at this conference.

Beyond bart is another organism of interest to look into "brucella":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucellosis

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Bob

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D Bergy
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You bring up a good point that I have not considered. More than one strain could exist in one person.

Thank you for the great links.

Dan

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map1131
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I'm one of those people that can't seem to make any headway with rife and bart. 832 is really rough on me, but it doesn't touch the GI problems.

Rifampin does wonders for my GI but the toxic herxing is just too rough on the rest of me.

Pam

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"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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lululymemom
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Judging from this excerpt:

"It is very difficult to find a physician who wants to see someone with a chronic illness that is poorly defined," he said, adding that many such patients often think they have Lyme disease, a tick-borne bacterial infection with similar symptoms - and stigma. "With an unexplained illness, it becomes problematic."

So.. many think they have Lyme, when they actually have Bart? Could it be that this infection is influencing the Western Blot to show a false positive for Lyme?

This is something I have brought up here before.. How could people think they have Lyme unless they have been tested.. Or are they all being clinically evaluated?

I personally feel some could have Bart and not Lyme but are treating both needlessly. Which creates a problem in and of itself.

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IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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kadee
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As to the possible cross-reactivity I know only about this study:
quote:
Cross-reactivity was 0-36% in Chlamydophila pneumoniae and 13-20% in Coxiella burnetii, varying per test.
Serological cross-reactions between Bartonella quintana, Bartonella henselae, and Coxiella burnetii
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17hens
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I spoke with Dr. S.(FL) last week on the phone.

He told me that if my 16 year old and my 14 year old have had Bartonella streaks on their hips for 5+ years, either I passed it to them in utero or they have multiple strains of Bart.

He also said, Bart is spread by using same utensils or drinking from same glass.

I'm still digesting that conversation...

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"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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hadlyme
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"So.. many think they have Lyme, when they actually have Bart? Could it be that this infection is influencing the Western Blot to show a false positive for Lyme?"

I do believe this.

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Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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rks
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I had a cdc positive through Igenex for lyme and babesia microti. I was also told I was positive for Bartonella through Fry Labs, then was informed by some members here that that isn't really bartonella, so I'm not sure what to do with that?

I have many bart symtoms including the burning, sore, painful feel; muscle weakness and pain; fatigue; all types of different rashes; moodiness and irritability; etc.

I'm still confused on the Fry Lab thing. Should I continue to research bart or since others have said it's really mycoplasma, should I research that and forget bart?

I would really just love to know exactly what it is so I would know what to research and what's inside me.

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17hens
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rks, IMHO you should forget the labs and the comments, but look instead at your symptoms. The rashes alone, if they're are Bart rashes, speak volumes to me.

hadlyme, I agree also. Bartonella does attack the immune system and can make it difficult to test positive for lyme.

I have tested 3 times (never with Igenex) for lyme and coinfections and all the tests were negative. But I've had symptoms of lyme, bart, and babs. With babs&bart treatment combined, I am feeling better.

I believe I've had Bart and/or Babesia (probably and) for at least 5 years, but it wasn't until getting a tick bite in 4/09 that I became "sick". That's when I sought out an LLMD.

I think the coinfections can lay low, but when lyme is involved you get sick enough to see a doctor.

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"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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nomoremuscles
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"I'm one of those people that can't seem to make any headway with rife and bart. 832 is really rough on me, but it doesn't touch the GI problems."


832 was very rough on me too.

727 has been VERY good for my gut and on what appear to be bart syx -- legs, feet, shins, calves, neuro, spasms, electrical MS type stuff -- though it is also very rough and I have had to work up in time (coil machine) slowly, in well over a year's time.

850 has also been helpful.

As has 20, 787.

When someone bangs down a bug load using a specific frequency, say 832, and then, afterwards, get hit with a maelstrom of new syx, I think the most likely explanation is that another bug, or as Bob said above, another strain, has now become dominant.


This happened to me with 713. It was very helpful on GI Bell's palsy, but once I seemed to wipe out whatever particular population the 713 hit, I got slammed with really awful MS symptoms and was losing function daily. My legs were spasming, cramping, getting weaker and more painful daily -- along with many other syx. 727 and 850 are now knocking back whatever load came out to play.

Or at least that is the narrative I am assigning here, as I really have no idea what is happening.

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rks
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17Hens - you are probably right, but since the labs are positive and the one from Fry Labs was, according to my LLMD, one of the worst cases they've seen, it would be really nice to know.

Guess just having a name for it would be nice and to know exactly what I'm dealing with, like the lyme and babesia. Plus if new treatments come out, I want to be able to know that "hey, that's what I have, maybe it will work . . . "

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tick battler
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I think it's very common to have numerous bart infections. Two in my family tested positive with blood tests showing both bart quintana and bart hensalae. They also tested positive for those through EDS testing, along with bartonella bacilliformis.

All in my family of 5 showed at least two bart infections through EDS testing.

tickbattler

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lymie_in_md
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nomoremuscles put the course of action against bart very well, you get one of the organisms then you have to hopefully test and get the next one while guessing the right frequency. How do you test what frequency is next? Any suggestion?

I talked about lyme and using an LED with rife, it seems the two could possibly work together. Although great care would need to be used if using both.

--------------------
Bob

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missing
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My LLMD treated me for bart almost right away.

Was treated for 3 months for Bart with Rifampin.

Have been on Mepron for 7 months for Babesia.

Some things have improved but the pain is still horrendous.

The pain and cognetive is all I really care about.

I guess I was lucky to have a LLMD who understands the co-infections as well.

I always understood Lyme to actually mean:

the borrelia spirochete AND also all the co-infections.

That is what Lyme is. Isn't it?

I have been chronically ill all my life, always something going on.

I was bit by 8 ticks in 1981. They were on me for about 3 weeks and fully engorged by the time I found them all.

I had lots of weird random symptoms my whole life.

Then I was bit again in 2007, and my body seriously fell apart and the pain is horrific torture.


[dizzy] [Frown] [shake] [sleepy] [rant] [lol]

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I am not a doctor. I have no clue.

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lymie_in_md
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I found the following article very interesting on a new form of bart:

http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/16/3/500.htm

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Bob

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canefan17
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This is why I'm big on herbs (Knotweed)

Instead of trying to figure out what I'm dealing with I treat the system.

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nomoremuscles
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Hi Bob,

"How do you test what frequency is next? Any suggestion?"

I don't know a good way to go about this, unfortunately. It is pretty hit or miss.

I always start with DougM's and Rife's frequencies. Those seem to get an awful lot.

Since we really don't know what bug is doing what, and since we don't really know what frequency is killing what bug, often when I go to frequency lists I will look up symptom clusters rather than names of bugs. So if, say, I have specific gut problems, I try to find those problems matched to a frequency on a list and then cross reference that frequency to see if I can find it elsewhere. I have had pretty good luck doing that (though, I am by no means well).

Of course, many syx cliusters have been associated with particular bugs -- so even if bartonella is not causing the syx, the bartonella frequency may be actually killing the bug that is. Because of that, I think that the standard lists for the different bugs are pretty good -- even if we are targeting something entirely different than assumed.

Pretty scientific, huh?

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lymie_in_md
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The best I can think of is a biofeedbackup device. Such as an asyra along with a rife machine. Also determining which rife machine is best.

We really need Royal Rife to come back and tell us a few more of his secrets. We just need a medium or two! [lol]

In the mean time its a guessing game of hope to get lucky.

--------------------
Bob

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D Bergy
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I am guessing that the species may not be far apart concerning frequencies that may negatively affect it. Many of us get positive results using 832 Hz so lets try build on that.

Instead of running 832 Hz for Bart, maybe a sweep from 828 Hz to 836 Hz would hit more of it.

It is worth trying anyway.

Dan

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nomoremuscles
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"Instead of running 832 Hz for Bart, maybe a sweep from 828 Hz to 836 Hz would hit more of it."


Hi Dan,

DougM suggested trying everything between 828-850, lots of hits in that range he said.

He also suggested running everything from 2110-2150, especially 2130. I tried 2130 once and got a GIANT response. I will return to this once I finish up with what I'm doing now.

Also, he had such an intense response to 655, that he thinks that one session was responsible for the major part of his turnaround -- especially the gut. He warns strongly for people not to take this one lightly.

He had always assumed all these frequencies were hitting borrelia -- but looking back it was likely he was hitting many co's.

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nomoremuscles
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"The best I can think of is a biofeedbackup device. Such as an asyra along with a rife machine. Also determining which rife machine is best.

We really need Royal Rife to come back and tell us a few more of his secrets."


Hi Bob,

I don't know what an Asyra machine is. Something like a Vega or Mora?

But, yes, I agree, we do need something to help pin all this stuff down. A lab, a few machines, a powerful scope, and loads of sick blood might be a good start.

As far as Rife goes, I have a ouija board and a shovel. I am too weak for the shovel, however.

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