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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Can Lyme lay Dormant for 20 Years?

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Author Topic: Can Lyme lay Dormant for 20 Years?
Homerhart
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Here's a baffeling concept; In 1990 I was told by a US Navy doctor that my bullseye rash was ringworm (from damp towels or something similar). Is it possible to carry Lyme in a dormant form for over 20 years? Do I have need for concern? I have noticed that I have begun to emit a foul body odor (possibly Candida coinciding with Lyme)? This is apparent even though I shower, twice daily. I even had a Navy instructor/teacher inform me to shower more often (I caused a 30 desk classroom to smell terrible)--Yikes! What's happening to me? Please help if --anyone-- has advice for me.

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Thank You!

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Keebler
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A bulls eye rash is ALWAY lyme. And, yes, it can last for over 20 years (or longer). Did you get any photos that you saved?

The smell is because the body gets overloaded with more toxins than the liver, kidneys and skin can manage.

It's going to take a lot more than just a shower, sorry, but more frequent showering is good, too.

So, are you in the navy NOW ? Do you have insurance through the navy? When did that doctor tell you all this? If recently, you may need to go outside to a lyme literate MD (LLMD).

In the meantime, probiotics, chlorophyll tablets, and liver support such as the herb Milk Thistle and 80 -100 ounces of water a day will help some. But you need to find a proper LLMD.
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Ali444
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I also have this odor - apparently fairly common with Lyme ssuffererss. Search "stinky" on this site.

Before my diagnois, in reading all I could on the subject i came acrosss a condition called trimethylaremia (sp?) or "fish odor syndrome". YOu can have levels of trimethylamine tested - it is very rare.
Do you have other Lyme symptoms?

Ali

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Homerhart
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I had the rash in 1990. I am now retired (51 years old) and living near Niagara Falls, N.Y. The doctor told me he was certain it was ringworm, and admitted it was going around the ship (aircraft carrier). But now...I'm not so sure of that. Yikes! Now I really have to get the ball rolling. I'mm calling my Primary Healthcar Provider first thing tomorrow morning. Thanks for the quick reply

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Thank You!

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Ali444
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I also have this odor - apparently fairly common with Lyme ssuffererss. Search "stinky" on this site.

Before my diagnois, in reading all I could on the subject i came acrosss a condition called trimethylaremia (sp?) or "fish odor syndrome". YOu can have levels of trimethylamine tested - it is very rare.
Do you have other Lyme symptoms?

Ali

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Homerhart
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I have some ringing in my ears but besides my body odor, nothing resembling Lyme disease. This is really something......

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Thank You!

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Homerhart
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quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:
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A bulls eye rash is ALWAY lyme. And, yes, it can last for over 20 years (or longer). Did you get any photos that you saved?

The smell is because the body gets overloaded with more toxins than the liver, kidneys and skin can manage.

It's going to take a lot more than just a shower, sorry, but more frequent showering is good, too.

So, are you in the navy NOW ? Do you have insurance through the navy? When did that doctor tell you all this? If recently, you may need to go outside to a lyme literate MD (LLMD).

In the meantime, probiotics, chlorophyll tablets, and liver support such as the herb Milk Thistle and 80 -100 ounces of water a day will help some. But you need to find a proper LLMD.
-

Wow......Amazing that this is occurring! it happened in 1990 (no pictures). The Dr. swore it was ringworm but now, I'm not sure. Is Milk Thistle readily avail in Health Stores? And pro-biotics I can find in any pharmacy, right?

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Thank You!

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Keebler
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Sorry, but don't expect much from your Primary Healthcare Provider. Most are not very well educated about lyme and it's very controversial and political.

You might get lucky with your PCP but it's not common for them to be totally uneducated about lyme.

Ringing in the ears (tinnitus) is one lyme symptom. However, there are many causes of tinnitus and noise exposure is one of those. My guess is that in your service you had some noise exposure from equipment and firearms.

But you say you have no symptoms resembling lyme and that body oder and "some ringing" in your ears, you feel okay ?

Your PCP should do all the liver and kidney tests, so in that way, they can help. And, you might have those trimethylamine tests that Ali444 mentions. All possible causes of body odor should be assessed.

Still, going back to the bulls eye - if you feel good, I'm not sure what to advise for right now but the odor is a clear sign of toxicity. Lyme is a highly toxic infection.

Typical lyme tests are not very good, most are a waste of money.
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Keebler
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Milk Thistle and Probiotics can both can be found in health stores. Chlorophyll, too.

If you don't have one already, you might get a good stainless steel water bottle to carry with you.

Looking at your posting history, I see a duplicate thread to this one with a few more details that I'll put in the next post.
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Keebler
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Homerhart writes:

Yes, 20 years ago (1990)

RASH - I had a large coffe-can cover size bullseye rash. It was on my left leg, above the knee that gradually got bigger and stopped enlarging in 2 weeks.

Now in 2010, I'm beginning to see

floaters in my vision, and have been emitting a

foul body odor although I shower twice daily (possible co-infection from Candida?)?

My imagination may be running rampant but heck...ya never know.

The bulls eye site remains to this day as semi-numb to my touch regarding the top layer of skin only.

Any advice from --anyone-- would be appreciated! I'm a 20 year Military Veteran.

P.S.: Is there a kit or self-test for Candida out in the pharmacies? Maybe in the Health/Holistic community?

(Homerhart in Niagara Falls, N.Y.)
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Keebler
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www.holistichelp.net/candida.htm

Candida Symptoms

Learn how diverse candida symptoms can be, their significance on mental and physical health and a variety of holistic treatment approaches for candida.

===============

Tests for candida are not all that great. The article above can help more, probably.

Diabetes can cause body odor. Have you been assessed for diabetes? BTW, lyme can cause diabetes (as can other infections), so if you happen to have blood sugar problems you still need to consult a lyme doctor.
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Keebler
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-
AVOID STEROIDS, even avoid steroid creams if suggested for the rash. Steroids can make infections works.

LUMBAR PUNCTURE (Spinal Tap) is NOT a good test for lyme. Any doctor who suggests this to diagnose lyme is not a lyme literate MD (LLMD).

==============================

www.canlyme.com/seronegreasons.html

(27) REASONS WHY A SERONEGATIVE TEST RESULT MIGHT OCCUR

===============================

With a bulls eye, a test is not really necessary (but most MDs don't know that). Lyme is not supposed to be diagnosed solely on tests since the tests are so difficult.

However, if you do get test, it should be a Western Blot, a couple different ways. And best done at Igenex labs as most labs don't the right test.

You should also be evaluated for coinfections. Not all tests are great in that regard, either, but a good LLMD can evaluate you and then guide you in testing. One of the top labs is:

www.igenex.com

IGENEX


===============================

www.ilads.org

ILADS - International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society

=================

http://www.lymediseaseassociation.org/

Lyme Disease ASSOCIATION

=================

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_research/lyme_articles4.html

Lyme Disease: Two Standards of Care

by Lorraine Johnson, JD (revised 2005)

=========================

http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/controversy-continues-to-fuel-the-lyme-war/article/117160/

From the May 2007 issue of Clinical Advisor The Clinical Advisor is a monthly journal for nurse practitioners and physician assistants in primary care. Home page: www.clinicaladvisor.com

CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR"

Discusses differences in the methods of the IDSA from those of ILADS

========================

http://www.lymedisease.org/news/lyme_disease_views/592.html

THE HUMAN FACE OF TICK-BORNE DISEASE - by Pamela Weintraub

October 11, 2010 at the Institute of Medicine (IOM) Talk on state-of-the-science Lyme workshop. She is author of CURE UNKNOWN

=================================

http://cassia.org/essay.htm

When to Suspect Lyme by John D. Bleiweiss, M.D.

==================================

http://tinyurl.com/5crsjv

CURE UNKNOWN: Inside the Lyme Epidemic (2008) - by Pamela Weintraub

This details what an entire family went through. Having this knowledge of their journey will help others to get better, faster treatment.

http://www.cureunknown.com

==============================

http://www.underourskin.com

Documentary: UNDER OUR SKIN

(you can purchase for $35 at the site or see if you local lyme support group has a copy to lend.)

========================

http://www.lymepa.org/html/dr__j__burrascano_september_20_0.html

Burrascano's Powerpoint SLIDE presentation 9-20-08

------------
http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

Advanced Topics in Lyme Disease (Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses

Dr. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines (2008) - 37 pages

------------
As important as any supplements, sections regarding self-care:

Go to page 27 for SUPPORTIVE THERAPY & the CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES

and also pages 31-32 for advice on a safe, non-aerobic exercise plan and physical rehabilitation.

----------------------
This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:

http://www.lymepa.org/Nutritional_Supplements.pdf

Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease

J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD (2008) - Four pages

==============================

It's very important to have this book as a reference tool for self-care and support measures. It answers so many questions in detail that is impossible here on the forum.

http://tinyurl.com/6lq3pb (through Amazon)

THE LYME DISEASE SOLUTION (2008)- by KS, MD

You can read more about it here and see customer reviews.

Web site: www.lymedoctor.com

===============================

http://www.lymebook.com/insights-lyme-treatment-strasheim-book

INSIGHTS INTO LYME DISEASE TREATMENT

- by Connie Strasheim

This book is based on interviews with 13 Lyme-Literate Health Care Practitioners. Each practitioner is given one chapter in which to share their healing strategies

http://www.lymebook.com/steven-harris

On-line Sample Chapter from the book: Chapter 1

==================================

http://www.lymeinfo.net/index.html

LYME INFO Website

details about Lyme disease symptoms, diagnosis, treatment, and prevention

peer-reviewed medical literature

===============================

Regarding psychological and psychiatric matters caused by neurotoxic infections:

www.thehumansideoflyme.net

The Human Side of Lyme

Deliberations of a psychiatrist who evaluates and possibly diagnoses Lyme and other tick-borne diseases of the mind, sharing case histories . . . .

===============================

http://www.lymedisease.org/

California Lyme Disease Association (CALDA) is a non-profit corporation acting as the central voice for all tick-borne disease issues. An excellent website for anyone in any state.

===============================

http://www.publichealthalert.org/

PHA - Public Health Alert an on-line newspaper devoted to education in the field of lyme and tick-borne disease.

===============================

STATE Many states have their own Lyme disease association, network or group of a similar title. A Google search can often find that. Be sure they are ILADS-minded, though.

================================

http://www.lymenet.org/SupportGroups/

Find LOCAL LYME SUPPORT GROUP

================================

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=2&submit=Go

Post in Seeking a Doctor forum
-

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Keebler
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-
Please don't get overwhelmed with all those links. They are all good to have on hand for reference and since you can still see your rash site, a consult with a LLMD would be good.

Now, you may or may not have active lyme. You body may have handled it (or not). The basic blood work and liver, kidney and glucose tests should be done. If there are any abnormalities, I'd see a LLMD then.

Floaters can also have other causes, but mostly from toxic debris. I assume you've seen an eye doctor. Antioxidants are important. Bilberry is a good start.

With body odor, it's important to not consume any alcohol. Not sure where you are with that and it should be private but it's important to mention that. Lyme can damage the liver and alcohol can further damage it, then. And that can lead to some serious body odor. Kidneys, too, get stressed.

Be sure to eat LOTS of colorful vegetables and some low sugar fruits like tart apples and berries. Avoid sugar as best you can.

Lemon juice or lime juice can dress up water. Stevia is a plant sweetener that is okay.

Artificial sweeteners - additives - dyes - all out of the question.

It may seem insurmountable but I think you are wise to start with addressing candida - as it could be the problem and we all need more probiotics. You also may need more colorful vegetables to add fiber and antioxidants.

Good luck with all this.
-

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xoxoxox
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Hi Homerhart
You wondered if Lyme could remain dormant for 20 years. For me it was dormant (or minimal) for 12 years so it's very possible in your case. My bulls-eye occurred in 1996 and there were no significant symptoms until 2007-2008.

I sometimes go through periods of time where my feet are stinky (never an issue for me before - toxins, I assume) but nothing like the problem you are experiencing. However, there has a been a strong ringing in my ears for 4-5 years now. A complete work up of tests showed no damage, no cause, no hearing loss.

NY State is very reluctant to believe Lyme exists in their neck of the woods so save yourself the frustration and get to an LLMD and have an iGenex test done.

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Danni

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Homerhart
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A wealth of Info (I salute you). There --IS-- one thing that is on my mind concerning my rash. I am going by memory now so please understand. In 1990, the rash lasted for about a month. A cream was prescribed for the *supposed* ringworm. The circle spread for 2 weeks and definitely was raised and scaley around the outter-most ring.
*For you, Keebler, I see you are an honored contributor on this site and from a 20 year Veteran, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I /did\ order a test kit from IGenex Labs (I think I spelled it right). And they do a full spectrum of tests guaranteeing a 90-95% success rate. Thanks again for the links. What's keeping my spirits up is multiple google searches explaining that Ringworm is characterized by "a raised border" around the bullseye (which is what I particularly remember...and that it lasted a god-awful time). I'll keep everyone posted as to what's going on and thanks for the aid. I much appreciate it!

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Thank You!

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Liz D
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yes, mine was dormant for 22 years - was unleashed by a major surgery.
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Lymetoo
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Hi Homer!! Welcome!! We're glad you found us!!

OH yeah.. Lyme can go dormant a very long time. Mine did. It took me 42 yrs to be diagnosed.

About that rash. I know that the Lyme bullseye "grows" .. but I'm not sure about ringworm. I guess it can "grow" too??

Did it have a defined center?

In this link are several important links, and a list of Lyme and coinfection symptoms. You may want to check the list.

Quick Links to Popular topics:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/88555

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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'Kete-tracker
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I've read or seen all Sorts of folk who had Lyme early on- as a kid or teen or young adult- & who either weren't treated properly, as the disease wasn't known (late 60s), or were insufficiently treated (i.e: 10 or 14 days of "doxy" 100mg b.i.d.).

Then, upon reaching their late 40s and 50s, they have a major relapse of joint &/or neurological Lyme symptoms, requiring months of abx to "recover".

Oh yes... You can carry it dormant for decades!

I'm curious about this ringworm that made the rounds on your ship. How does it get "into" you? Certinly not just by damp towel exposure!

As far as Lyme... were ticks ever a problem on board? I wouldn't imagine they would be.
But that ring SURE sounds like borrelia!

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Robin123
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Sounds like you are going to need a Lyme-literate doctor.

You can post in SeekingADoctor for one near you and people will pm you.

You can also connect with any area support groups, which are listed at the left here, under Support Groups.

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Homerhart
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To Clarify: Damp lockers/showerrooms and not drying bath towels can result in ringworm. There are special sanitary treatments for competitive wrestling mats as well. It thrives in moist and warm enviroments. Ringworm is not a worm. The ring on the skin resembles a growing circle, which enlarges when itched. I was prescribed an anti-biotic topical creme.
--#2) The only woods/forest I could have picked-up a Lyme tick would have been near the western shore of California (near Stinson Beach). My aircraft carrier was stationd in the San Fran Bay area at the time. There were no ticks roaming or piggy-backing onboard my ship. Reports of ringworm were heard though. I'll know after my test is sent off.
Question: Anyone know what the test will cost? Is it BIGTIME $$$ or manageable? I ordered my test yeaterday & free of charge to have it shipped. Yes, they check for Western Bloc (or maybe mis-spelled). Appreciate all this support!

--------------------
Thank You!

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Keebler
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-
Ringworm is a fungus. Antibiotic cream would not work on it.

I do see that it can form a ring around the outer edge.

The thing is that, if you don't have very many symptoms, it may have been ringworm. I didn't know until just now, see a photo at Wiki that ringworm can have a similar appearance to a bulls eye rash. And damp, close conditions on a ship are certainly conducive to ringworm.

I would not spend a lot of money on a lyme test until you see a LLMD who can look at the scar that was left and assess that. I would want someone who could tell the difference between ringworm and borrelia.

Body odor can be caused by so many things. Your other two symptoms, too.

While there may not have been tick aboard your ship, lyme can come out at any time - especially when under stress. Fleas and mosquitoes can also carry lyme.

Still - FIRST - I would get the liver and kidney tests, & a diabetes screening done first. And get advice from a MD who may specialize in body odor issues.

Colon clearing may be slow, etc. Gallbladder problems can also contribute to body odor.

Have you been drinking enough water - and eating lots of vegetables and fruits with a good overall diet that is high in fiber?
-

[ 11-24-2010, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm

Dermatophytosis or ringworm is a clinical condition caused by fungal infection . . .

[See photo. I can see that could be confused with a bulls eye lyme rash, especially if working from memory]

==============================

http://www.lymediseaseassociation.org/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=11:rashes&Itemid=387

RASH PHOTOS of tick-borne infections from the LDA site
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Homerhart
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Yes Keebler, Thanks and you seem very well versed about these things. I have not checked your profile yet but I will when I return from running errands (purchasing probiotics & Milk Thistle). Last year I went to the emergency room for extreme diahrrea (3 days). They did a blood check in the ER and kidney check was perfect. Have not had an episode before or since that event and believe it to be an isolated one (abdominal flu possibly).
Now, I need the liver and High suger. My Dad is borderline diabetic and he needs the self-blood test 2-3 times per day. Whenever I see him, he test's me and I pass with flying colors. I am physically fit, exercise 5-6 times a week and run marathons. People/strangers are surprised when I mention I'm 51 years old. I normally hear "Gosh, you look to be in your 30's"
And my B.P. is a bit high (135/98) but after I sit for 10 minutes and it's re-checked, I go down to normal.
Thanks to all you very kind people again. I've only been a member here for 24 hours and have so much info---it's very flattering.
Peace.

--------------------
Thank You!

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Homerhart
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Keebler:
[QB] -
Ringworm is a fungus. Antibiotic cream would not work on it.

Yes, I may have typed this wrongly. It must have been a steroid creme then because I specifically remember the Dr. saying it was ringworm, //Again\\ this was 1990...and not much known by *especially* Navy Doctors.

--------------------
Thank You!

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Robin123
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Hi Homer - yes, there's Lyme on the CA coastline - anyone can go anywhere, pick up ticks on their clothes which could then drop off anywhere.

Also, if you weren't exposed then, perhaps you got a tick bite anywhere else and didn't see the tick? This question only matters if you think you have Lyme symptoms. You could check a symptom list if you google for the Burrascano guidelines.

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Homerhart
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Thank You Robin123

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Thank You!

Posts: 14 | From Niagara Falls, N.Y. | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
randibear
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i think it can yes. i seemed to be ok until (oh god, this is going to sound awful but it's the truth), until i got married.

i got pneumonia, then had abdominal masses which ruptured, then gallbladder rupture, then hysterectomy.

it's been downhill physically since. i think all the stress and unhappiness the lyme came out with a vengence. and of course stress in my job -- law and civil rights. man, what a bad combination.

sorry, but it's the truth...

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do not look back when the only course is forward

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Homerhart
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randibear...I have been to 3rd world countries. I have seen terrible states of the populous(s?) of those places. Maybe I picked something up in the Philippines, Mombasa Africa, El Salvatore, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan (not that the last 3 mentioned are 3rd world). Then I hit Jordan and Turkey along with visiting Egypt three different times (which would be Hurghada, on the Red Sea). So...I'm really confused because with all this world traveling, maybe it was something I ate or even--god forbid--latent malaria. "After" we departed Turkey, I was informed that they were spraying with trucks a heavy, visible spray up & down the rural streets of the city we visited (Antalya).
But I'm safe here in the USA now and surropunded by medical specialist's. I'll keep y'all posted of my proceedings!

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Thank You!

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randibear
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hey h, i spent 5 years in europe. france, holland, germany, spain, italy, switzerland, and austria and morocco.

no spraying but lots of time on the economies, hunting and hiking and all.

but could have been there, but i doubt it.

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do not look back when the only course is forward

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Lymetoo
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Lyme is pretty much found all over the world. You could have gotten it anywhere.

The Western Blot thru Igenex is around $200.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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sixgoofykids
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I would guess what you had on the ship was probably ringworm since it was going around and ticks were unlikely to be on the ship.

But, you could have had lyme from someplace you were on land and you can have had it for more than 20 years.

You mention malaria ..... could be .... a Lyme coinfection is similar to malaria - babesia. I had Lyme with bartonella, babesia, and parasites, so lyme can be complicated. With all your traveling, you might research parasites. Doctors won't come up with that. They can be really bad ... mine were ... and having been all over the world it's possible. I got mine in the US.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Homerhart
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So many replies.
Thanks--!

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Thank You!

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kayr
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Lurker here.*_*

I just figured out I have Ringworm from over a month ago. (probably from visiting neighbors cats) Left it untreated and now it is spreading...or going away ;> Had a Doc in the box do a scraping last Saturday and it was positive. Lots of anti fungal cream and so far 8 days of 100mg Diflucan which I will keep taking for at least a month. Have an appt next week with a Dermatologist, because it appears that I may have been dealing with multiple fungal problems...15+ years of high dose antibiotics....

It's Thanksgiving and I just had apple pie...
feel guilty....
sugar is hard for me to stay away from.

I have pretty much quit treating Lyme and in the mid 90's did lots of wormwood and flagyl in hopes it might help...3grams of penicillin a day was my first miracle...and on and on...quit high dose about 6 years ago. Pulse occasionally.

Keebler, that was wonderful that you came back with the Ringworm probable.

I have had LD and Babesia since 1974/75. One cdc positive test in the early 90's.

Do not think, after so long, anything in regards to chronic Lyme will change....people will keep reaching out and others will reach back. That has been the good side of this devastating disease for me.

Thank you for this website and all who care...K

Oh, and good luck Homer and thanks for serving! Clinical is best and research everything.

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Homerhart
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Thanks Kayr!

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Thank You!

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tartana
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A new product for ringworm and wound treatment has just come out and is called "VETERICYN". I recommend if for all animal/people's medicine cabinets! I am a farmer and have seen first hand how well it treated pinkeye in my mini beefers this fall as well as the ringworm on my friends arm as well! I wish it was around when my hubby and I had ringworm a few years back, I firmly believe it wouldn't have take so long to be rid of it back then! It is a wonderful product for immediate-acting one step, wound and infection treatment. Can't say it will work for my Lyme tho! The Lyme bull's eye I had was nothing like the ringworm we suffered from, with the scaliness of the ringworms edge being the difference. Just thought to pass on this wonderful product if any of you should ever need it, especially dealing with the accident prone critters I live with as well as hubby! Cat's can be carriers of ringworm as well, without showing the signs, as my friend attested to fostering normal looking kittens!

Tartana

...wonderful recipient of Lymes which nobody would treat, even when shown the "bullseye" because I was "negative"....thank goodness for IGENEX and the lovely FNP that is guiding me thru this mess!

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LymeXtu
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Just another vote of confidence for Vetericyn

Great for many things, animal and human.

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tartana
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One more note....we figured I probably been battling my Lyme in my system for at least ten years....and just now got properly diagnosed after all the other Drs. turned me down because of the negative status. Extreme exhaustion, fibromyalgia, lower extremity numbness and tingling, ear ringing, eye and nose sores as the tip of my iceberg! I am still angry for being fluffed off by the medical establishments locally! Especially since I knew something was not right ten years ago with the classic bullseye and I live in a very well know tick haven in north central WI, not far from Medford where Lyme was originally discovered and diagnosed as "Lumberjack's Arthritis"! Glad to hear Lyme, CT got the kudos shortly thereafter! LOL! So knowing I live in tick country and got fluffed off still blows my mind to the blind eye the area Drs. would not attend to my pleas! Learning alot from this website....and hope to cope some more!

Tartana

Posts: 12 | From Central Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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