Topic: Trying to find supplements WITHOUT Magnesium Stearate! Hard to do!
Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
Dr. K. says to avoid magnesium stearate and titanium dioxide. In a lecture of his I heard, he calls them "evil things", "poison". (My cabinet is quite full of supps with this stuff in them..... what to do??)
Are there other ingredients we should be avoiding?
If you have any sources of supplements that do not have these ingredients, please post.
Thanks, Tammy
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
This brand is available at the Physician price if you are a healthcare professional.
Prices are higher for non-healthcare professionals.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Nutri Pharma in NYC, 212- 983 -8291 carries Pure Encapsulations at very competitive prices. They supply all the integrative doctors in the NYC.
They carry all the top grade brands at good prices, offer excellent service and are very knowledgeable about the products they sell. $4.95 flat rate shipping and your order arrives the next day, if ordered before 3:00.
They just helped me eliminate mag stearate from all of my supplements and replaced them with good brands, mostly Pure Encapsulations.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
Thanks. I'll check it out.
It's crazy that so many supplements have this in them.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have been trying to avoid these for years. Actually it is the mag sterate and silicon dioxide I need to avoid because they break me out all over my face. I have found liquids, powder form and gummie type vitamins/supps to be w/o these items most of the time...it is tough though. Most everything has them included.
Posts: 146 | From Midwest | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
Vitamin Code is one brand that does not have them. They have vitamins and minerals. Some of the Eniva products also are without. It is tough.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Pure Encapsulations and Thorne Research both refrain from usieng questionable fillers. You can get them on the web including www.willner.com.Posts: 47 | From nj | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Abxnomore: [QB] Nutri Pharma in NYC, 212- 983 -8291 carries Pure Encapsulations at very competitive prices. They supply all the integrative doctors in the NYC.
They carry all the top grade brands at good prices, offer excellent service and are very knowledgeable about the products they sell. $4.95 flat rate shipping and your order arrives the next day, if ordered before 3:00.
They just helped me eliminate mag stearate from all of my supplements and replaced them with good brands, mostly Pure Encapsulations.
Someone tell me how to access the product info here....
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
fflutterby
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 28081
posted
Click on the Nutra-Pharma on top. Then you will be able to browse by category.
-------------------- Psalm 46 1 God is our refuge and strength Posts: 1367 | From North Jersey | Registered: Sep 2010
| IP: Logged |
fflutterby
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 28081
posted
You can see more products but not more product info You can google the item you want more info on though. This may give you better product info.
-------------------- Psalm 46 1 God is our refuge and strength Posts: 1367 | From North Jersey | Registered: Sep 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks... I don't have the patience for this crazy website! They must not want customers very badly.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Lymetoo They have a terrible website. The best thing to do is to call them. They are wonderful to work with, very helpful and knowledgeable and will answer any questions you have.
I have been using them for years. When I called and told them I wanted to switch every thing I use to products that did not contain magnesium stearate there were a few products that Pure Encapsulations did not make and he researched and found companies that did. He called me and gave me my options and they always look for the best quality for the best price.
If you ever get Ken on the phone, there's just two who work there, the guy is a genius. He knows every thing and everything about every supplement there is. The hows and whys of who it works... you name it he knows it. He has a brilliant mind.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Forget about the website. It's relatively new. They are wholesalers to doctors and medical groups. They are not hurting for business but nonetheless, they are wonderful to work with.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
quote:Originally posted by Tammy N.: Dr. K. says to avoid magnesium stearate and titanium dioxide. In a lecture of his I heard, he calls them "evil things", "poison". (My cabinet is quite full of supps with this stuff in them..... what to do??)
OK, trying not to freak out... I just checked and my counter is covered with supps that are full of these things.
I get most of my supps from vitacost (NSI, Paradise, etc) and Every Single One has either one poison or the other.
Only two supps on my counter do not have either evil - Shaklee and Standard Process.
How important is this? Why isn't this something everyone knows? I'm feeding my DD "poison" in the things that are supposed to be helping her with the "poison" bacteria and the "poison" abx? Is it better I just don't give her supps anymore?
Ugh. Love you, Tammy, but I wish I had never read this thread...
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
Just remembered, Premier Research Labs is another company that makes pills without the magnesium stearate.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged |
Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
Thanks for your suggestions, friends.
Hens - I know what you mean..... sorry to have upset you with learning about the importance of this. But I think it's important for us to know, so we can do better for ourselves.
Also magnesium stearate contributes to biofilms. We need to avoid that!.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
Do you know why they're bad for us besides contributing to biofilms? (like that isn't bad enough)
I just ordered a box full of vitacost stuff to refill my almost empty bottles and every single thing has 1 or the other of those 2 evils.
D3, Ultra-Mag, Essential enzymes & DGL licorice for DD's belly, melatonin, L-arginine&L-ornithine, C, B-complex, CoQ10, OLE, etc.
Why do people recommend vitacost products on here? I mean, this is craziness!
I'm sure I can't afford the ones from the companies listed above for 4 of us...not to mention hubby's losing his job in January.
Is it better to not to take them at all rather than take them w/ m.s. & t.d. in them?
I'm not expecting you guys to know the answers. It's just that all this new info puts me at a complete loss to know what to do.
I need to help my family but now I don't know how...
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
My pharmasist just went to one of Dr. S's lectures on Lyme issues. She said to buy Magnesuim Glycinate Chelate Capsules NOT the Magnesuim Stearate and you will be good.
***edited name of LLMD*** (see the rules)
[ 12-22-2010, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posts: 348 | From MA | Registered: Dec 2010
| IP: Logged |
17hens.. It's not like this stuff is going to kill you by tomorrow!
I'd like to switch over too, but not sure I can afford it all.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
I heard Dr. K speak on this issue. The bio films inhibit the absorption of the nutrients. He said magnesium stearate is chalk. I guess none of us would eat chalk willingly......LOL!
When I looked thru my supplements I some that said vegetable sourced magnesium stearate and I was thinking that type was OK. No so, when I spoke to Ken at Nutri Pharma. He told me it's the same thing.
Dr. K also said you don't want titanium dioxide in your supplements either.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
I used to think learning something new every day was a good thing.
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
Remember to Smile
Unregistered
posted
Here's print info on toxic excipients (binders & fillers). It's an intriguing read; really just another aspect of the whole Lyme Cryme.
Dr HW Wiley, the man who began what later became the FDA, tried to have poisonous additives like sodium benzoate banned from food, but corporate greed won out over public health.
Please read The China Study by Campbell and share copies with your friends. We need to wake up more Americans before we're all toxic zombies.
IP: Logged |
17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
momlyme - very good video.
i'll look at it again tomorrow when i can think straight (tired now).
(hey, wasn't that napoleon dynomite's brother?)
you should know, you are the new queen of research.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26835
posted
I emailed iherb last night about their return policy. I didn't say why, I just asked if I could return unopened bottles. The answer is yes, if it's within 60 days.
I imagine other supplement sites would offer similar policies.
This whole thing is quite upsetting. We are all researching the hundreds of supps that can be a help to us, and unbeknownst to us they are adding this junk that could be harmful (just so they can process faster). I can't take the stupidity. Why does the dollar always win out?
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
It's that way in every industry, unfortunately and we have to be smart consumers. Fortunately, we have so many smart people here all brain storming.
Pure Encapsulations does not add any fillers. And there are others brands but I now Pure is a first tier quality brand. I'm not trying to push Nutri Pharma, honestly, but that is why I like using them. They know their stuff and if they don't, they will research it for you. When I changed, it was so easy. They did all the work for me and even told me there were three products that they could not find comparable replacements for without the mag stearate.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Confused again..My LLMD has me taking magnesium 2x a day...he had me order it from a pharma company with b12, culturelle and CoQ... What does this magnesium do to you that we dont want? Should I stop taking it?
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
It is magnesium Taurate? I dont see magnesium in any others except the chlorella
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wow thanx lymetoo...you stopped a panic attack aout to occur again~~I dont see any magnesium filler in the supps he has me on...I hope he knows what he is doing..even though I went to him on dec 2 and never heard from them again..even my western blot..no answers yet!
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I found this info on Life Extension's website (a well-respected source of information and supplements):
"Should I be concerned about the use of stearic acid?
Stearic acid functions as a flow agent in the manufacture of quality products, and stearic acid also occurs naturally in the foods you eat. For example, four ounces of dark chocolate contain 3,625 mg of stearic acid; a cup of kidney beans contains 1,655 mg of stearic acid; an ounce of raw ground beef (grass-fed) contains 2,063 mg of stearic acid; and a half pound of lean raw turkey contains 1,642 mg of stearic acid. Even a tablespoon of allspice contains 1,513 mg of stearic acid! Our supplements, on the other hand, typically contain no more than 10 mg per capsule. We always use the lowest level of magnesium stearate possible."
--------
I would imagine that most of our prescriptions also contain stearic acid. I just found out that my Zyrtec does!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Yes it does occur naturally in the things we eat. As I understand it the kind the industry uses is literally chalk. Most of us don't eat chalk......I don't think...?
Also remember it's not just the mag stearate but titanium dioxide, too. For that matter many companies put many things in their supplements that are not good for us or that we are allergic too.
On Pure Encapsulations label, it says" The encapsulated product contains no hidden coatings, excipients, binders, fillers, shellacs, artificial colors or fragrance. Contains no dairy, wheat, yeast, gluten, corn, sugar, starch, soy, preservatives or hydrogenated oils.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Most companies have eliminated the titanium dioxide. I only found one product here that contains it. (in my supply)
How much more expensive are the Pure Encapsulations? I think I found 7 supplements of mine that would need to be changed.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
It's hard to say how much more they are. I don't know what you use and what you pay now. But it's a first tier pharmaceutical grade product that doctors use.
Just call Nutri Pharma and ask them for price quotes on the equivalent of what you use now. Simple as ABC. You can buy Pure Encapsulations on line, as well, if you want to check but I have not found any prices on line that are better than what Nutri Pharma offers nor the quality of knowledge or service.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
What do you think about this video put out by Metagenics, Inc?
I am never going to buy more products with magnesium stearate...
But my dilemma is... do I stop using the ones I already have bought. I put lines on the caps of the ones with mag. stearate and other stearates like stearic acid & calcium stearate...
What do we do, throw them away?
That's hundreds of dollars down the drain... but if they are poison... taking them could be worse than throwing them away!
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Remember that Silicon Dioxide is quite literally, sand or quartz. Magnesium Stearate isn't innately pathogenic; its very similar to nontoxic chalks. These are two substances that have, in minute qualities been a part of the human diet since ancient times due to environmental reasons. Heck, I see more than a few supplemental silica products! Both products are dangerous if you're blasting bedrock and inhaling tons of it, or if you ingest pure refined stearic acid, eat a whole child's sandbox full of silica etc... but there are matters of degrees. I can dump concentrated CoQ10 on cells in a petridish and watch them die, then write a report about how "CoQ10 causes cessation of cellular respiration", but that wouldn't be an honest framing of the data and would be an alarmist, inaccurate headline.
Compared to some very real, demonstrated pathogenic substances like sodium benzoate or MSG, this stuff is basically neutral. Yes, its a filler or anti-caking agent to help material flow easier but I don't think it is worth it to give up supplements that are helping you and you aren't reacting to in negative ways over something like this. Sure, if you can afford it try to find a brand without them if you like, but it may or may not be worth the price difference.
There is a threshold I see a certain number of practitioners approaching that "Anything that I do not sell, will poison you" and I'm really getting irked about it. It is becoming fearmongering that causes sick people looking for answers to panic and making certain individuals wealthy in the process.
A few years ago someone sent a "compelling report" to a "leading alternative physician" who just happens to sell a TON of brand named products (if I recall correctly at current, he sells cookwear and is emphatic that nearly any other product other than his will poison you), extoling the dangers of "Dihydrogen Monoxide" in one's environment. And its true, "Dihydrogen Monoxide" have killed many who imbibe it, especially in large quantities etc.. Soon after, this practitioner went on his website telling everyone to avoid the compound and he was sure his products were free of it and everyone elses' were tainted etc...
Dihydrogen Monoxide is quite literally, water. Two hydrogens, One Oxygen. H20. Of course, the previous posts on his page were rescinded etc... but it proves that even some "trusted practitioners" can be guilty of not looking far enough into research and deducing a scam, or are willing to overlook the validity of such a study if it makes them a buck.
I'm not saying there aren't a lot of dangerous chemicals in supposedly "safe" foodstuffs, but we have to be smart and I don't approve of when people in trusted positions make mountains out of molehills, especially when they've something to gain from it.
Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
Dihydrogen Monoxide...
I am still laughing. Thank you.
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
Pure Encapsulations is the BEST and My favorite Brand Period. Best quality I have come across. Have not had time to price check across site. But anyone who has? Would love to hear.
Open for others who will save me Money?
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged |
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Hi Spring, my favorite brand, too. I posted this above. Nutri Pharma in NYC, 212- 983 -8291 Best to call. Website is bad. They do mostly wholesale to doctors and work mostly by phone.
They have the best prices, best service, very knowledgeable about all supplements. If you can get Ken on the line, he is often busy, he is a genius. Flat rate shipping $4.95, goes out the same day and they carry all the pharmaceutical grade brands. They really know their products.
If you have questions, they will research it for you and find you the best product and the best price for you.
I just compared some prices from the site you posted vs. nurti pharma. All way cheaper:
Pure Encap Mag glycinate 180 caps $29.90 vs.$23.60
Pure Encap NAC 180 caps $42.50 vs. $34.00
Pure Encap nutrient 950 w/o Iron $37.60 vs. $30.08
Pure Encap DHEA 5mg 60 caps $9.10 vs. $8.00
Pure Glucosamine HCI Chondroitin 120 $52.40 vs. $42.00
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
fflutterby
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 28081
posted
Whats next, every time I turn around I hear something like this. Unbelievable. Like we don't have enough to worry about !! I agree with Blackstone. I cannot afford to keep changing the supplements because of some radical statement from people who have something to gain.
-------------------- Psalm 46 1 God is our refuge and strength Posts: 1367 | From North Jersey | Registered: Sep 2010
| IP: Logged |
RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
Am I the only one who simply cannot afford to change supplements?
I need to re-order, but can't afford to change from Vitacost's NSI brand.
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
| IP: Logged |
Metabolic Maintenance Products, Inc 68994 N Pine St, SIsters, OR 97759
Health Force Nutritionals makes all natural,non-synthetic vitamin products. FOod based. No binders, fillers, other excepients. In Escondido, CA www.HealthForce.com 1-800-357-2717
New Chapter Organics makes food-based nutrients that are biodynamically grown on the co's own Costa Rica property. No magnesium stearate or silicon dioxide, etc a few binders like vegetable cellulose yes. Available in most healthfood stores.
Excepient-free, alchohol-free, additive-free and glycerine-free herbal extracts:
Paradise Herbs these are very high quality! Mostly specialize in Ayurvedic, single herbs not formulas, but a few formulas very well done. None lyme-specific that I am aware of. Their milk thistle (powerful liver protectant/cell rejuvenator) is excellent as is all of their products.
Advantages of food-based nutrient supplements compared to synthetics: According to New CHapter Organics (see studies on their sites) commercial chemical "nutrients" are not recognized by the body as food. Food is recognized as food, therefore more of it is used by the body. That also means that less of the nutrient dosages are required than with chemical counterparts. New CHapter has it all charted out, based on studies, how much the body assimilates of a natural food-grown vitamin (Which are concentrated foods) compared to the synthetic. It's amazing, it requires more than 20x the amount of iron for the synthetic as the natural for the body to use it! So it takes a small dose of the natural where a large dose of synthetic is required.
IP: Logged |
Again these are excellent for anybody who is interested.
IP: Logged |
chiquita incognita
Unregistered
posted
Comments about Dr K's and other doc's concerns:
I understand the skepticism that informs comments such as somebody "has something to gain".
Nothing could be further from the truth.
As a survivor of environmental illness (MS-like symptoms instantly even just being around the newspaper or common household cleansers) I can say first-hand that chemicals affect immunity, nerve function, and the like. (I am fully recovered by the way, more than 20 years ago, not that it matters per se).
Now chalk isn't exactly a chemical but then again, some people with very sensitive bodies may (and often do) react to things that stronger people don't. Some people will even react to inert beet fiber as cellulose in vitamins/supplements/herbs.
I am willing to bet money, and lose all that I have instead of gain, that Dr K and this "other practitioner" referred to above, both have seen severely immuno-compromised patients suffering tremendously from the additives above. And truly having honest-to-god health impacts.
Where chalk is concerned, this would most likely be because of immune-liver compromise but where other things are concerned, I can only emphatically say that chemicals are the worst for holding down immunity, contributing to nervous system disorders like MS and alzheimers, autism and ADHD have recently been tracked to pesticides, etc. These are not used in vitamins etc but you get the point. Further reading: Check out the website of the Environmental Working Group, they have very detailed information about the impact of chemicals, individually, on the human body.
Back to the point: Where the less-toxic additives to supplements are concerned, health impacts to vulnerable patients could indeed be a concern. Obviously Dr K and others have seen this and are concerned enough to write about it. We should not put them down for their concern.
That said, they may also be making emotionally charged statements in using such words as "poison" etc. To the immuno- or liver-compromised patients, yes could be. To the stronger individually, probably not "poison" but a hazard if there is cumulative build-up in the body, yes.
Keep in mind that there is a) lots of information in these docs' minds that we don't have b) years of experience seeing patients affected c) emotionally-charged statements based on those years of experience. Hence the strong words like "poison" et al. We can take that intensity with a grain of salt, but also take their concern seriously that it bears health impact. And we should research it, and know more. And be smart consumers, as posted above.
That's my two cents worth.
Thank you for this very enlightening thread, Tammy and to post the *solution* to the problem is key, even as we brainstorm about the problems too. Maybe as people step forward with more solutions (the greater pool of info from the community is where it's at, hooray for this forum!!!) then we will all pick up hope and be less depressed, disempowered, etc.
best wishes to everybody and may hope spring eternal. Big problems, simple solutions. That is my motto. And it has proven to be true at least in my life. May it prove to be true in yours, too.
IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
You can google the item you want more info on though. This may give you better product info.![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic