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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » A Novel Theory To Treat Lyme Disease?

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Author Topic: A Novel Theory To Treat Lyme Disease?
METALLlC BLUE
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It's 12 midnight, I'm up reading my medical text as usual, constantly scouring for that "a-ha." I found something that stands out with a theory I'd heard recently from a number of researchers studying the way in which the Immune System responds to borrelia burgdorferi. Upon searching, I found nothing of significance. Some basic studies were posted regarding Interleukin 10, which has shown to protect tissue in the presence of borrelia burdorferi, but that's the only common factor. IL10 is connected to the concept coming up:

Here it is, crazy, perhaps not even a novel idea. However, if I'm right, it may open the door to an experimental therapy for Lyme Disease without antibiotics that may have been missed.

What if Alan MacDonald (Pathologist) and other immunologists are correct? Borrelia Burdorferi as well as many other infectious diseases, are known to "antagonize or even instigate" the immune system into functioning in a particular way which favors the bacteriums survival. They can incorporate their DNA into our own, they can manipulate cellular Toll receptors to "ignore" borrelia's presence, but not without sacrificing the hosts fine tuned adaptive immunity. They can produce biofilms, change forms, etc.

Studies have shown that some bacteria control the hosts genes, turning on and off switches which provide a symbiotic relationship. For example, at birth we're often coated with lactobacilius and bifidobacterium which we get from the vagina as the infant passes thru the canal, and breast as the infant feeds. Without these crucial bacteria, other organisms take their place in our digestive tract and nasal passages, as well as external skin, increasing the risk of allergies and immune system irregularities. When organisms are properly distributed as nature intended, the body "samples" these microorganisms via the mucous membranes lymphnodes, peyers patches in the intestines, and so forth. The body literally presents parts of these bacteria to the immune system, introducing them for the first time and basically forming a "mutural tolerance" -- a symbiotic relationship in many cases. Without one, the other suffers tremendously, or dies all together.

Lyme Disease, as a chronic infection may become powerless should an immense cascade of regulatory T-cells, producing a combination of cytokines, like Interleukin 10, enter the picture. The bacteria I discussed earlier are hypothesized to be a part of the "Hygiene Hypothesis." In reality though, it's not an absence per se of correct bacteria once we reach adulthood that is causing problems, but a "tolerance" issue. If we can get the immune system to tolerate Lyme-like antigens, or at least cause it to loose it's grip on the regulatory system, symptoms would substantially decrease or disappear all together, and the body itself may rid -- or....tolerate the infection for a lifetime without causing pain or suffering.

During youth, many of us come in contact with typical organisms found in soil, subsequent kisses, licking from pets, and touching that take place among children, in schools and such. I covered this, yes? It is well established now that this substantially "helps" children to grow up more hearty and stronger immunologically. Giving children antibiotics very early has shown to increase the risk of the very things these symbiotic bacteria protect the host from.

What if, we were to substantially increase a patients T-Reg cells naturally via innoculation with known bacterial compounds that instigate the proliferation of these cells without interfering with any other part of the immune system. The result should be a strong adaptive immune response and a tolerance to well established antigens in the host. Basically, anything which is present in large numbers, would be marked "tolerable."

There are small clinical studies -- and some big big studies that were performed in the U.K. -- but which turned out to be a dead end when the studies were "interrupted" by incorrect matching of Cancer patients. Much like the studies done regarding Lyme patients failing to thrive when given "long term" antibiotics. We all note the failure in those studies. Well, the same happened here, and when it did, the company funding it, pulled the plug and dropped the researchers who had created a method of inducing tolerance in animals and experimental human subjects.

You see, when the Immune System produces inflammation, allergies, and autoimmunity, it's based not on the instigators we come in contact with, but perhaps the tolerance of your bodies to those infectious diseases from lack of contact of natural organisms you ought to have had contact with earlier in life. Perhaps Lyme Disease isn't so tough if the immune system suddenly fine tuned it's tolerance factor with the new innoculation.

Now I know this sounds crazy, but plenty of studies have been done on mouse models, and credible researchers have run clinical trials privately based on the innoculation via vaccines that trigger this "corrective" measure.

If you introduce a substance into the body which suppresses inflammation and regulates it, so as to produce a tolerance factor to a variety of allergens, without compromising adaptive immunity, then the immune system should counter intuitively turn on it's antagonizers, like the "stealth rider." With tolerance to large sums of our own tissues and other "self" proteins, the immune system would gracefully attack borrelia burdorferi as long as the inflammatory response was suppressed without compromise.

Autoimmunity should disappear, allergies should disappear, and so should the symptoms of Chronic Lyme, assuming this works.

Look up Mycobacterium Vaccae, as well as "Dirt Vaccine."

Research John Stanford and Cynthia Stanford. I think they're on the cutting edge of solving some very important puzzles involving the immune system. I wonder if borrelia on their minds may create an A-ha of their own. I will contact them somehow. They live in the South of England and are treating patients on a "Compassionate-Use" basis, primarily for Cancer. I bet they'd "love" a challenge with a controversial disease like Lyme Disease, especially given how prevalent it is there now.

P.S. Sorry for the rambling and repetition. It's late, I'm just.....in a tizzy over this possibility.

[ 12-31-2010, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: METALLlC BLUE ]

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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Tincup
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I've read it. Am thinking on it. Interesting. But like you, its late and I will try more to understand it when I've first rested.

[Big Grin]

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www.LymeDoc.org

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Carol in PA
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I don't know enough about microbiology and immunology to discuss this, but some parts caught my eye.

"If you introduce a substance into the body which suppresses inflammation and regulates it..."

Something like systemic enzymes?

Carol

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Carol in PA
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quote:
Originally posted by METALLlC BLUE:

Look up Mycobacterium Vaccae, as well as "Dirt Vaccine."


Getting dirty may lift your mood
Public release date: 1-Apr-2007
Bacteria found in the soil activated a group of neurons that produce the brain chemical serotonin

Treatment of mice with a ‘friendly’ bacteria, normally found in the soil, altered their behavior in a way similar to that produced by antidepressant drugs, reports research published in the latest issue of Neuroscience.

Interest in the project arose after human cancer patients being treated with the bacteria Mycobacterium vaccae unexpectedly reported increases in their quality of life.
Lowry and his colleagues reasoned that this effect could be caused by activation of neurons in the brain that contained serotonin.

More... http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-04/uob-gdm033007.php

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cleo
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I think Denise Faustman is doing something similar. She injects bcg. A mycobacterium vaccine made out of the bacteria to up tnf and is curing autoimmune and diabetes. I think she is in stage 1 or 2 clinical trials. Yes you get worse before you get better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denise_Faustman
she has a patent
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20100150893

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METALLlC BLUE
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Changed the name of the post at the suggestion of another patient. I was "out of it" last night, so again I apologize for any abnormal "stuff."

I think what I'm discovering is that wide spread use of antibiotics may be a thing of the past in the future -- perhaps during this century.

Now remember, a lot of this material you've brought up is "old" concepts, using patents unrelated to the Stanfords vaccine. The Standfords are the pioneers on the subject, they know it better then anyone.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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1: Immunotherapy with Mycobacterium vaccae in the treatment of psoriasis.

1. Amira Lehrer1,
2. Amalia Bressanelli1,
3. Viviana Wachsmann1,
4. Oscar Bottasso2,
5. Maria-Luisa Bay2,
6. Mahavir Singh3,
7. Cynthia Stanford4,
8. John Stanford4,*

Article first published online: 17 JAN 2006: FEMS Immunology & Medical Microbiology. Volume 21, Issue 1, pages 7177, May 1998

Abstract

A placebo-controlled study of immunotherapy with Mycobacterium vaccae for chronic plaque psoriasis showed improvement in the psoriasis area severity index in 19 of 21 immunotherapy recipients (P<0.005). Minor improvement, not reaching statistical significance for the group, occurred in nine of 14 placebo recipients. There were losses to follow-up and the placebo used, tetanus toxoid, was not ideal. Clinical improvement after immunotherapy persisted for 6 months and another injection of the immunotherapeutic given to a few volunteers from either group resulted in benefits lasting a year. Lymphoproliferative tests were carried out at each clinic visit, and on 50 matched controls. Starting with reduced responses to mycobacterial antigens and concanavalin A, both treatment groups showed a fall after 3 months, and diverged at 6 months with M. vaccae recipients rising to values similar to those of healthy controls, whereas placebo recipients continued to fall. Conclusions reached were that immunotherapy with M. vaccae gave long-lasting clinical benefit to most patients, with minimal side effects. This accompanied a return towards normal cellular immune responsiveness to mycobacterial antigens, which did not follow the use of the placebo.

In the 1970s Dr. John Stanford noticed that diseases such as leprosy and tuberculosis did not occur uniformly throughout the African countries he visited, but were present in geographically irregular patterns. He isolated an organism (Mycobacterium vaccae) from soil of the lesser-infected areas and thus began his collaboration with immunologist Graham Rook.

Stanford and Rook describe how the body needs exposure to allergens in order to acquire immunity. Diseases such as asthma are much more common in the developed world, and these researchers feel that too little contact with bacteria may be the culprit. Stanford and his wife Cynthia claim that inoculations with Mycobacterium vaccae can help victims of asthma, cancer, circulatory deficiencies, leprosy, psoriasis, and tuberculosis. While these may sound like tall tales, clinical trials are underway and research on Mycobacterium vaccae is evident in current medical literature. (This was 2002. These trials are done![/b]

Popular Science Magazine did an article that provides additional insight

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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This Germ Could Save Your Life - Popular Science, 2008

Or at least keep your teeth cavity-free. A growing chorus of medical researchers say our bacteria-killing zealotry is misguided. Instead of fighting bugs, they argue, we should train them to do our bidding and then set them loose in our bodies. The trouble is keeping them there

By Jessica Snyder Sachs Posted 01.31.2008 at 1:24 pm 10 Comments

Tooth Fairy The Streptococcus mutans bacteria shown here lives inside your mouth. It eats sugars and excretes teeth-rotting acid. But by replacing its acid-production gene with a gene that makes alcohol, one researcher found a possible way to eliminate tooth decay.

Its a drizzly morning on New Yorks Upper East Side, and Rockefeller University microbiologist David Thaler is sipping a double espresso amid the retro-hippie pillows and dangling paper stars of Java Girl, a favorite haunt of the neighborhoods brainiac Nobel laureates, aging poets and famous entertainers. Thaler somehow manages to embody all threea long, graying ponytail curling down the middle of his back, wire-frame glasses askew over expansive brown eyes, and a schnozz to rival an Einstein, Ginsberg or Allen. Thaler is one of the leading cheerleaders for a new field of biotechnology aimed at engineering the bacteria inside us to deliver drugs, destroy tumors, actively fight infection, and even vaccinate against their disease-causing kin.

Our ancestors, Thaler explains, emerged from the Stone Age by genetically engineering plants and animals through selective breeding, transforming the wolves that preyed on their flocks into the domestic dogs that would guard them. Except for wild-caught fish, virtually everything we eat today has been engineered, he says. Meanwhile, were walking through this ocean of bacteria and only looking at them as something that can make us sick, rather than something to cultivate. He believes that its time to move humanity from being microbe exterminators to microbe farmers.

Thaler thinks we need what he calls a second Neolithic revolution. Although his day job as a microbiologist at Rockefeller revolves around such abstract research as testing lifes speed limit (current record for replication: eight minutes), he sees himself as an idea man, someone who might help advance an entirely different mind-set in medical microbiology: Instead of using antibiotics to kill harmful bacteria in our bodies and our environment, why not coax bacteria to do our bidding?

The technology to harness these bacteria exists, Thaler says. Biotechnology firms already use bacteria like E. coli as tiny factories. Just slip the DNA instructions for, say, a new protein-based drug into E. coli and, in its endless quest to replicate itself, the bacterium will replicate the drug as well.

But its one thing to employ genetically engineered bacteria to produce pharmaceuticals inside a sealed vat. Its quite another to deploy what some call Frankenbugs inside a patient. The same characteristics that make bacteria so amenable to genetic engineeringtheir malleability, their incredible replication speed, their genetic promiscuityallow their newly acquired DNA to spread to other microbes, including potentially dangerous ones.

Such concerns have largely kept the first generation of engineered superbugs confined to biohazard-containment labs. But the few microbes that have made it into limited human trialsa cavity stopper, a tumor destroyer, a bowel sootherhave been enticingly successful. And so the first standoff over body-ready bugs is taking place before the review boards of medical centers and government regulatory agencies, the people who will decide if the world is ready for engineered superbugs.

I honestly think people are more comfortable with the idea of nano-robots scurrying through their bodies than they are of deploying bacteria, Thaler muses. But when you think about it, you cultivate your lawn. Youd probably like to cultivate your internal landscape.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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Continued:

THE CAVITY KILLER

Jeffrey Hillman, an oral biologist for-merly of the University of Florida, is a poster child for the kind of biotherapeutic future that Thaler envisions. Hillman has spent a decade lobbying the FDA to let him test a transgenic tooth bug in volunteers. Fortunately, we had no idea what was ahead, says Hillman of the gantlet of regulatory requirements he has had to tackle since 1996. That was the year Hillman founded Oragenics, a biotech firm dedicated to commercializing his patented cavity-preventing Streptococcus mutans, a genetically modified organism (GMO) thats the product of nearly 30 years of research.

Inside the mouth of most every person on the planet, colonies of S. mutans bacteria thrive on leftover sugars. The by-product of their digestion is the acid that eats away at tooth enamel and causes cavities. But there are many different strains of S. mutans, and some cause more trouble than others. In the summer of 1976, Hillman was trying to replace cavity-prone strains with those that secrete less enamel-eroding acid. Unfortunately, it seemed almost impossible to permanently eradicate a persons native S. mutans once his or her teeth became colonized in early childhood.

We were trying all sorts of crazy things, Hillman recalls. One time, we were painting volunteers teeth with iodine. Then we tried fitting their teeth with trays filled with antibiotics. Yet no matter how thoroughly Hillman banished his volunteers native S. mutans or how quickly he re-colonized their teeth with a benign strain, the switch-out never stuck. Slowly but surely, a persons indigenous strain always came back, Hillman says.

In 1982 Hillman hit on the idea of first finding a strain aggressive enough to elbow out a persons native tooth tenants and then knocking out its genes for acid production. He conducted the microbial equivalent of cockfights, setting various strains of S. mutans against each other in crowded petri dishes. He knew he had found his ideal candidate when he saw that one pinprick colony had cleared a perfect circle in the lawn of other bacteria around it. When Hillman and two of his labmates introduced the strain into their own mouths, it quickly took over, banishing their native S. mutans in the process.

Next, Hillman deleted the microbes gene for acid production, but the superbugs didnt survive the genetic tinkering. Most strains of S. mutans, including this one, use lactic acid to dispose of metabolic waste. Without acid excretion, the waste builds to toxic levels, killing the microbe.

Hillman solved the problem by making his bug produce alcohol instead of acid. To do so, he borrowed a gene for alcohol production from Zymomonas mobilis, which is used to make pulque, or Mexican beer. The resulting bug didnt produce enough alcohol to make its host at all tipsy. But in studies with lab rats, it replaced the animals existing S. mutans and kept the rats mostly cavity-free on a high-sugar diet that would normally destroy their teeth.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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Continued:

The trouble was that Hillman now had a true transgenican organism that expressed the genes of two different species. The prospect of tests in humans meant that he had to go to the FDA for approval. The FDA eventually referred his case to the National Institutes of Healths Recombinant DNA Advisory Committee, created in 1974 in response to public concern over the safety of interspecies gene transfer. The committee, which includes ethicists and patients as well as scientists and physicians, reviews any application for a transgenic intended to be used outside a sealed laboratory.

In 2004, the committee gave Hillman the green light. Usually, this is enough for full FDA approval. But not this time. FDA regulators asked Hillman to cripple his bug to guarantee that it could be removed should it ever cause problems. When we asked them what kind of problems, they had no idea, he recalls. I guess we were setting a precedent.

The regulators saw a genetically modified bacteria that was robust enough to take over any persons mouth, and they were worried about its unchecked spread. Their decision reflected a common criticism of GMO biotherapeutics. The main problem . . . is that [GMOs] are usually poorly contained, argues geneticist Joe Cummins. Recently retired from the University of Western Ontario, Cummins is a leading spokesman for the London-based Institute for Science in Society, an anti-GMO lobbying group. Theyre bound to escape and to pollute the systems of people who dont require therapy.

So Hillman knocked out more genes, this time rendering his microbe unable to survive without an amino acid that test subjects would need to supply, twice daily, by rinsing with a specially formulated mouthwash. In addition, the agency required that Hillman test on patients wearing full dentures that could be dropped into bleach at the end of a week. The volunteers could not have children in their homes, and their spouses had to wear full dentures as well. And both the volunteers and their spouses had to be robustly healthy and under age 55. We screened more than 1,000 potential volunteers, Hillman says, and we found two.

The miniature, two-person trial proceeded without a hitch at the end of 2006, with no adverse side effects and complete elimination of the organism at the end of seven days. Last November, past the 10th anniversary of his original FDA application, Hillman received approval to use his crippled transgenic in a larger clinical trial. Real people with real teeth! he exults. For safety, the volunteers will spend the weeklong trial in a biocontainment ward.

Should his superbug prove as harmless as it appears, Hillman hopes the FDA will eventually allow him to skip the step where he renders it a nutritional cripple. Users could then dispense with the daily amino-acid mouthwash.

Might the bug then begin spreading from one persons mouth to the next? Its unlikely, Hillman says. When he and his labmates colonized their teeth with their GMOs ancestor, it did not spread to wives and girlfriends, even while remaining in their own mouths for decades.

Proponents like Thaler ask whether such an uncontrolled release, if it were to occur, would be a bad thing. What would it be like for us to have benign versions of Typhoid Mary walking around, he asks, spreading their health-enhancing germs? In some cases, though, uncontrolled release of genetically modified bacteria could lead to disaster, even if the intended effects were nothing but beneficial.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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ATTACKING CROHNS

On day three of the study at the Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam, the 43-year-old Dutch farmer felt so good that he was packing his bags to leave the hospital. The nurses caught him just as he was headed out the door of the centers new biocontainment ward for gene therapy. Its rooms are kept under negative pressure so that even if a window breaks, bacteria-laden air will flow in, not out. The man had been spending his days confined to little more than a glorified hospital room, with doctors and nurses coming and going in head-to-toe surgical garb. The bug that was healing his body had to remain isolated, by government order. We had to explain to him that he was not free to leave, no matter how wonderful he felt, recalls study leader Maikel Peppelenbosch.

Over the previous eight months, Peppelenbosch had managed to win government approval for a clinical trial that deployed a genetically modified cheese-making bacterium, Lactococcus lactis-Thy12, to relieve Crohns disease. This excruciating bowel disorder is caused by the immune system mistakenly attacking the intestines normal complement of digestive microbes. The result is a vicious cycle of painful inflammation and gaping ulcers that can progress to life-threatening perforations of the colon.

Dutch approval of the trialand the willingness of patients to cycle through 11 days of biological isolationwas a testament to both the seriousness of the disease and the lack of reliable cures, Peppelenbosch says. These were patients for whom taking out the bowels was their last remaining option. Funding for the study came from the U.S., by way of a private research grant from billionaires Eli and Edythe Broad, whose son suffers from Crohns.

The way to treat the disease is to turn off the immune systems attack on the intestines native bacteria. Researchers have long known that lab animals whose bodies fail to produce the immune-calming molecule interleukin-10 develop severe inflammatory bowel disorders similar to Crohns. But efforts to administer IL-10 are fraught with problems. Stomach acid destroys the protein, so it cant be taken by mouth. And introducing it into the bloodstream risks paralyzing a patients immune system.

Any solution must deliver the immune-calming molecule exactly where its neededinside the intestinal tractbut nowhere else. Thats where Lothar Steidlers creation comes in. In 1999 Steidler was pursuing postdoctoral studies into Crohns-disease treatments at Ghent University in Belgium. In an impressive molecular sleight of hand, Steidler took the gene for IL-10 and slipped it into L. lactis.

But he didnt stick it just anywhere in the cheese bugs genome. Steidler understood how important it was to prevent his bug from escaping into, say, the sewer system, where any number of nasty, disease-causing bacteria might pick up the IL-10 gene. The result could be pandemic disaster: a pathogen out in the wild with the ability to cripple the bodys disease-fighting response.

I knew I had to build in some sort of suicidal mechanism, he explains. He also had to prevent gene swapping between his good bug and a potential bad guy. So Steidler made sure that the incoming IL-10 gene always replaces another gene needed to produce the nutrient thymidine. That way, his new bugs cant make thymidine, and so they die of nutrient starvation within a few days. That fleeting life span is enough to complete their mission but not long enough to survive in the waste that flushes down the toilet.

Even better, if the inserted gene jumps into another organism, it replaces that microbes thymidine gene. So any bug that receives the gene likewise becomes a doomed nutritional cripple. Fortunately, Lothar designed this bacterium very well, says Peppelenbosch, who collaborated with Steidler to usher the transgenic through regulatory approval in the Netherlands. Their proposal received no objections from either regulators or the publican unexpected feat in rabidly anti-GMO Europe, he notes.

The team faced no lack of volunteers for the trial. The doctors at the Academic Medical Centre saw scores of patients with severe Crohns that failed to respond to standard anti-inflammatory drugs. The researchers ushered 10 patients into their containment ward, one by one, for their seven-day treatment and 11-day isolation.

Eight of the 10 Crohns patients experienced relief from pain and diarrhea, five dramatically so. One withdrew early for unrelated reasons, and none experienced any worsening of symptoms or problematic side effects. Most important for the prospect of larger studies, Steidler demonstrated that his transgenic microbe completely disappeared from the volunteers stool within a day of swallowing their last capsules of live bacteria.

As expected, the patients symptoms reappeared a few weeks after they returned home, and several came back to plead for continued treatment. We couldnt, of course, Peppelenbosch says, because the trial was over. Steidler and Peppelenbosch are seeking Dutch approval for a larger, placebo-controlled trial, this time without the onerous restrictions of isolating patients on a biohazard ward.

Built-in suicide mechanisms such as Steidlers may prove key to the widespread use of GMO biotherapeutics. Now that the biocontainment issues are being fully recognized and achieved, I think its all going to move very quickly, predicts North Carolina State University micro-biologist Todd Klaenhammer.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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THE TUMOR BUGS

In January 2002, doctors at the Mary Crowley Medical Research Center in Dallas began injecting a genetically modified breed of salmonella into three cancer patients with large, inoperable tumors that had failed to respond to radiation or chemotherapy. For reasons still poorly understood, salmonella proliferates inside malignancies, perhaps because cancerous tumors tend to remain beyond the reach of the immune system. This salmonella was special, though. A Yale University team led by microbiologist David Bermudes inserted an E. coli gene into the bacteria. The gene produced an enzyme that activates a highly noxious, tissue-destroying drug. The beauty is that neither the enzyme nor the drug that it activates does anything toxic except in places where they end up together, Bermudes explains. In other words, the system is engineered to be harmless outside a tumor but deadly inside it.

The 2002 pilot trial proved a success, in that the bioengineered salmonella delivered its enzyme payload, produced a modest shrinkage in tumor size, and did no harm to the three patients, but the trial was too small to make any claims of a cure. To move into larger, meaningful trials would require following in Hillmans footsteps through a battery of federal regulatory review boards. That costs money. Even if the researchers received approval to go ahead, they would need to come up with the many millions of dollars needed to usher any potential cancer treatment through large-scale patient trials.

That investment would most likely come from Vion Pharmaceuticals, the Connecticut biotech firm that currently holds Bermudess patent on the tumor-busting salmonella. Vion has no plans to tackle the regulatory process in the near future, however, says Ivan King, Vions vice president for research and development. As a small company, we cannot move many things forward at any one time, he says. Whats needed, he believes, is interest from a larger pharmaceutical company with much deeper pocketsjust the kind of company that has yet to show interest in highly experimental bioengineered bacteria.

THE NATURAL WAY

Meanwhile, some researchers are focusing on unmodified microbes that could benefit the body. These probiotics are sold in grocery and health-food stores, yet few of the numerous available products have been rigorously tested. One of the exceptions is Lactobacillus GG, or Culturelle, isolated in the 1980s by Sherwood Gorbach and Barry Goldin of Tufts University. Over the past two decades, Gorbach, Goldin and others have published 250 scientific papers on this strains disease-fighting effects. Studies suggest that the bug has an immune-calming effect that may ease some food allergies. But its one clear and proven benefit is to reduce a persons risk of picking up one of the many nasty intestinal bugs that cause food poisoning, travelers diarrhea and antibiotic-induced gastroenteritis, which results when antibiotics kill off a persons normal intestinal bacteria and a disease-causing invader moves in.

In Europe, where probiotics have long been popular, they have also been used to prevent chronic respiratory and ear infections. In the early 1990s, Swedish ear-nose-and-throat specialist Kristian Roos developed a throat spray containing a medley of throat bacteria that dramatically reduced the recurrence of chronic strep infections. A few years later, Roos developed a similar concoction that protected toddlers and preschoolers who were predisposed to ear infections.

Rooss probiotics demonstrated their worth in small clinical trials. But they also illustrate the challenge of developing a natural probiotic into a medical therapeutic. A small clinical trial may be enough to put a health claim on a nutritional supplement sold over the counter. But Roos wants to see such cures in the hands of doctors, who would judiciously prescribe them to patients. To do that, he must prove that his probiotics work in the same kind of large, multimillion-dollar trials that have stymied Bermudess cancer-fighting GMO.

For that kind of money, Roos admits, investors are right to expect an ironclad patent to protect their investment. But thats difficult to do with bacteria that occur naturally on and in the human body. Even though we can patent our particular mixture of organisms, it would be easy for someone else to come along and put together something slightly different from the hundreds of protective strains found in peoples throats, he explains. Without the assurance of some meaningful patent protection on his product, he has been unable to attract financial investors, and his treatments languish in a storage freezer.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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THE GOOD-MOOD BUG

Microbiologist John Stanford of University College London and his wife, Cynthia, discovered Mycobacterium vaccae while searching for a tuberculosis vaccine booster in Uganda in the early 1970s. Experts had long proposed that the widely variable efficacy of the TB vaccine stemmed from bacteria in a regions soil that provided a natural booster effect. The Stanfords, crisscrossing the African nation in search of this bacterium, isolated M. vaccae, a benign genetic cousin of Mycobacterium tuberculosis, from the muddy shores of Lake Kyoga, an area where the TB vaccine proved unusually effective against both tuberculosis and leprosy. The Stanfords hoped that injections of M. vaccae would help prevent or cure TB, but at best their vaccine proved only mildly beneficial. More curious were anecdotal reports of unexpected benefitsregressions of allergies, asthma and even cancer.

In 1992 John Stanford and his colleague Graham Rook went on to form a publicly traded company, SR Pharma, to test these immune-boosting benefits in clinical trials with late-stage lung-cancer patients. But in 2001, under a spotlight of media attention, the trial failed to appreciably increase patients survival time. SR Pharmas stock crashed, and following a dispute over the companys future focus, the company removed Rook and Stanford from its board of directors.

Yet the trial did produce one bona fide benefit: a significant increase in quality of life among patients who got M. vaccae injections versus those who received a placebo. That dovetails with the work of University of Colorado neuroscientist Christopher Lowry, who last May published a study where he used M. vaccae in psychotropic experiments with rats. Lowry discovered that the bug increased brain levels of the mood-enhancing hormone serotonin and decreased depressive behavior. Even more promising, Lowry showed that M. vaccae appeared to be more discriminating than antidepressant drugs in the kinds of brain neurons it activates. It switches on the serotonin neurons associated with enhancing mood, without stimulating those that increase hyperalertnessthat is, anxiety and sleeplessness. Prozac without the side effects, he calls it. In addition, recent studies have shown that M. vaccae may be effective against TBthe Stanfords original studies didnt supply enough dosesand may increase the survival times of some late-stage cancer patients.

Its just this sort of surprising potential that inspires researchers. Were always saying things like, I feel lousy today. I must have caught a bug, Thaler says. We never say, I feel great. I must have picked up an endorphin-producing one. What would it mean to cultivate yourself to be contagiously healthy?

Jessica Snyder Sachs is a contributing editor at Popular Science. Her most recent book is Good Germs, Bad Germs: Health and Survival in a Bacterial World.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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nefferdun
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Normally I would not be able to understand this but I read something similar in relationship to diabetes recently.

It is the hygiene theory - we are so protected from bacteria and parasites our immune systems never learn how to function without going on overdrive. Diabetes type 1 is an autoimmune response to the beta cells of the pancreas. They die under "friendly fire"

There are studies where doctors advise patients to actually ingest worms that only survive a few weeks in the body so they are relatively harmless. This allows the immune system to tolerate benign visitors.

It goes on to say when children grow up on a farm where they are exposed to manure and animals with parasites, their bodies learn to deal with them.

These theories sound good on paper but my son was mucking manure at the age of 8 (and still does it at 22). We had a house and barn full of animals that never got a bath so he had plenty of contact with germs.

Still he was recently diagnosed with type 1 diabetes so obviously that theory does not hold true for him. OR for me!

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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METALLlC BLUE
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Clearly there is more to the story than the Hygiene hypothesis, and that is where the idea I'm having regarding tolerance factor. The proliferation of T-Reg cells, to cause the body to tolerate things in adults, which it otherwise might not. There are many factors involved genetically, why people are predisposed to autoimmunity, but if an indirect method of innoculating IL10 into the body, without directly using IL10 itself, and -- innoculating something that substantially increases (naturally) the bodies T-Reg cells, then that's it.

The combination would be higher levels of IL10 in a person's body that doesn't produce enough of it, combined with the bodies new ability to monitor and "pick poke" it's own cells, testing them out, and regulating much more carefully what is foreign and uncommon (Infectious disease) vs. what is present often, thus producing tolerance. The body would learn to tolerate it self, where it previously failed to do so from lack of enough T-Reg, and not enough IL10 to calm and sooth the immune system in the presence of "self."

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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nefferdun
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Well, you are way beyond my comprehension. Obviously you have been spared your brain! Seriously, whether it is a valid hypothesis or not, it is wonderful that you can delve into something so complicated. I can't discuss it because my brain just won't cooperate.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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seekhelp
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I agree. It amazes me. If you do this at 35% functioning. what would it be at 100%? [Smile] Good work.

QUOTE]Originally posted by nefferdun:
Well, you are way beyond my comprehension. Obviously you have been spared your brain! Seriously, whether it is a valid hypothesis or not, it is wonderful that you can delve into something so complicated. I can't discuss it because my brain just won't cooperate. [/QUOTE]

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METALLlC BLUE
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I'll try to simplify it so that it's straight forward.

Immune System Responds To Chronic Infection Poorly

The immune systems reaction to chronic infection is the cause of our symptoms (mostly) in Chronic Lyme patients. If we can calm the immune system down naturally without disabling it's effectiveness, and allow it to be more tolerant and balanced, symptoms should also calm down.

Why does the immune system tolerate certain bacteria in your digestive system, but others cause food poisoning?

Certain microorganisms are known to cause exactly this pattern when they come into contact with the human immune system. The immune system sees a "probiotic" passing through your intestines and it doesn't scream "Food poisoning." Instead, it says "Hey, you're one of the good guys, you don't produce any significant toxins or issues, so go ahead and plant yourself down, we'll tolerate your presence."

Tolerate Me, and I Won't Bother You Much

An immune system that learns to tolerate an infection that doesn't inherently do much damage itself, is a calm and stable immune system. Lyme, like Tuberculosis, doesn't really do any significant damage on it's own -- it's the immune system attacking it which causes damaged joints, nerves, etc or in the case of TB, damaged lung tissue etc.

The Vaccine M. Vacc (And newer types) Stops The Disease Damage

We might get well if the vaccine dose exactly what John and Cynthia Stanford have seen in their work with the vaccine on TB, Lep, and other autoimmune/allergic conditions.

Since many of us have exhausted all methods, perhaps this theory is a valid place to do some research.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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METALLlC BLUE
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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:
[QB] I agree. It amazes me. If you do this at 35% functioning. what would it be at 100%? [Smile] Good work.

Our lives are on the line, I spend day in and day out studying and rereading books over and over, so I can absorb "something" that might help. Think of it like Forrest Gump. Even someone at 35% can do something significant if they put 100% of that 35% into it.

We have to find an answer, or we're going to live our lives in cages, or worse, die in them.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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dyna3495
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Nostradamus saved many lives by injecting specific parts per million of urine, into plague patients. How did he come up wth the ratio ?
Yet he lost his wife and children to plague. Was he afraid the "cure" would kill them ?

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nefferdun
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Isn't this what conventional doctors claim about Lyme . . When they say it is cured with a few weeks abx and our immune systems are out of whack? Then steroids. . .

Also it is not usually our immune system fighting the disease that makes us sick. I probably just don't follow you ...not your fault.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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METALLlC BLUE
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IL10 Suppresses Immunity. Innate IL10 Production gently dampens inflammatory conditions.

In conjunction with my prior ideas on IL10 dampening the hyper-inflammatory response caused by a lack of tolerance of the immune system in the presence of "anything" it disagrees with, I came across research that "legitimizes" my thoughts.

If we can't induce IL10 in a manner that doesn't cripple the entire immune system (which it does when injected), perhaps we can induce it in a method that is already supposed to be innately apart of our biology. We evolved with bacteria, yes? They have been apart of our health, our disease, and so forth.

Probiotics Available that induce IL10 production

There have been abundant studies done on two products primarily, Culturelle, and VSL#3, both created by highly regarded and educated physicians in gastroenterology, immunologists and microbiologists. These products were tested and consistently improved the health of the host, whether minor, modest or major. Why?

Many bacteria which serve human health "communicate" with the hosts cells, and form a symbiotic relationship with our bodies. These bacteria control the hosts gene expression, they can seal and coat the lining of the G.I. tract, significantly reducing access of infectious diseases. They serve to help us absorb minerals, and produce various molecules and substances that we need for optimum health. Many probiotics when effectively colonized produce antibiotics, and antiviral substances which protect the G.I. system. In abundant amounts, they may play one role in suppressing or perhaps even killing Lyme Disease, but I am not saying the products currently available can do that.

Probiotics in VSL and Culturelle have both been found to "modestly" increase IL10 within the host, when appropriate dosages were provided. Now, the problem is. Antibiotics (often broad spectrum) kill many of these important bacteria. Thus depriving us of the additional strength they provide. Pouring them thru the G.I. system while on antibiotics still isn't conducive to building the levels needed to reduce systemic inflammation (via IL10 production).

Bacteria Live Everywhere, Many Of Which Are Our Friends And Allies

The evidence shows that bacteria do not merely live on our skin, or on our mucuous membranes, but inside as well, inside tissues. There are bacteria that our body conveinently ignores. Why? Tolerance. These probiotics, can reduce inflammatory disease -- exactly like I was hoping earlier.

The difference is, I'd like to see an effective genetically engineered probiotic that not only safely increases levels of IL10 further, but has antigens similar enough to borrelia burdorferi -- that it can instigate an appropriate cell mediated response that helps kill the borrelia infection without antibiotics, while not injuring us pathologically.

Can Probiotics Go From Ally To Offender Of Pathogenic Infectious Human Diseases

If we can turn probiotics into antibiotics --....we will likely win this war. A lot of studies already support this concept, that one bacterium can "push out, or kill" another bacterium, which actually ends up benefiting the host.

Time to find a probiotic that can be placed into the host, and track down borrelia.

It's not science fiction. We're already seeing it done in a number of other infectious diseases, especially Staphlococcus Aureus, and Streptococcus Pyrogenes. There are successful attempt, but considering concerns over whether altered strains may pass on their genes to enemies that may do damage beyond just one single host, is a big problem.

Harmless Organisms Similar To Borrelia Burdorferi May Hold Key To Killing Borrelia Burgdorferi

Find another organism in the literature that commonly lives in ticks, but which is harmless to humans, and you may find the reason behind why some animals become mere carriers without symptoms, while others fall to disease. It's possible the antigens don't phase the host because it was previously exposed to some disease particular to it's species which is relatively harmless, yet invites immunity to borrelia burdorferi.

IL10 Producers To Consider

Another producer of IL10 is Fish Oil, Vitamin D, and Olive Oil. Some of these make us "sicker." Which tells me they likely induce other portions of the immune system to activate, thus increasing inflammation while also dampening it.

Antibiotics: A Failed War, Probiotics: The Solution.

Probiotics are the future of treating infectious disease, not antibiotics. Now, the type of probiotics we use, and whether we use them in vaccines, orally, or otherwise, is.... complicated.

I'd like to call this revolution the Domestication of Bacteria. We've done it plenty of times in history with animals, and other forms of life -- this is the next step.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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dyna3495
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This makes sence. If Dr. Oz sees this something may come of it.
A wonderful piece of work. Thankyou !

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paulieinct
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Very interesting stuff. MetallicBlue: You say that borrelia itself does not harm the body, but that the harm comes from the body's immune system attacking it where it lives. Do we know this for sure? If borrelia were allowed to colonize the human body without anything to stop it, are you saying that no harm would come to the body?

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Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that.

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METALLlC BLUE
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Hey Paulie, I don't have an answer to that question. It is all speculation really.

What we do know is that borrelia changes the way the human immune system functions. It "bends" the immune systems function so that it favors the survival of the infection.

That Bend in immunity assists borrelia, but it gradually does damage to our bodies over the long term (sometimes short-term depending on the strain and other factors).

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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canefan17
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You would enjoy Buhner's book.
It touches on a few of these concepts.

As for borrelia producing biofilms - i was under the impression that biofilms were already in place and borrelia tends to use it as a safeguard.

How would borrelia produce biofilms? (it's not a spider)

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METALLlC BLUE
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I read Buhner's book. It was good, informative. I don't know much about that aspect of borrelia's behavior (bio-films.).

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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lajamur
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This is really interesting. Is this kind of related to what LDN can do for Lyme patients?

I mean, isn't it in theory accomplishing a similar effect, though the LDN is "forcing" it artificially whereas you're talking about effecting organic change at a fundamental level within the body in order to produce a similar result? Am I way off?

In layman's terms, we're talking about teaching the immune system not to overreact, right?

--------------------
Symptoms since age 4
IGM positive Western Blot (Bb)
PCR positive Spiro Stat (Anaplasma)
Suspect babs and bart

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Karensky
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Metallic Blue ,

What an interesting concept...makes much sense though also

produces questions...how to get someone to work on the

theory as it relates specifically to lyme ? We need an alternative to

ABX treatment in the lyme community and at large...this certainly

sounds promising...you amaze me with the amount of research

you have done on lyme and shared with us all...thank you for

the hope that this inspires !

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"Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero

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Razzle
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I think it would be more effective to use a virus for this rather than bacteria... Most bacteria cannot go inside cells, but Bb and some of the coinfections do go inside cells. Viruses can also go inside cells (they have to in order to reproduce...making use of the cellular DNA).

Also, I wonder if a modified fungus would be more successful for killing bacteria? I'm thinking this because molds (fungus) are where antibiotics come from...

I don't know...just thinking out loud...

Thanks for the very interesting thread...

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-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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hadlyme
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Ask a microbiologist....Frylabs.com They specialize in all aspects of this. They are all scientists and pros. See what they have to say. Email them a shorter version. I bet you'll get an answer.

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Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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sparkle7
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Maybe this does happen to the people who get Lyme, take abx for a month or so & get well...?

Maybe the others waited too long to treat it or have some other genetic mutation that prevents getting rid of it?

I have to say that I do think Bb is engineered... I'm no scientist, though. Whatever it is - it's complicated. Have you looked into phages?

fyi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage

Now, if they could engineer some nanobot or bacteria, fungus, virus to absorb radiation - the world may be a better place.

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365SunnyDays
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I like the approach, since I don't think that long-term antibiotics are really the solution for everyone. And the idea that bacteria could be helpful has gotten too little attention from the medical industry. Now that we've been able to address so many of the dramatically awful bugs with antibiotics, we are left to deal with the less dramatic ones, where the bacteria slowly gets at the system. Boosting the immune system to do its work better is what, I think, will ultimately do the job. If one route is through helpful bacteria, we should embrace it.

The only thing that I disagree with is that the BB itself does not do damage. I understand that it spirals into all the tissues and damages them. The cytokine and immune response may also do damage, but the crux of it all, I think, is to stop the bugs.

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We really know so little about the body and the microbiome.

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aMomWithHope
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up
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chiquita incognita
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HAHA!!
This confirms what I have been suggesting all along. Strengthen immunity.

When I was treated more than 25 years ago by a brilliant specialist in environmental illness and recovered completely...he said that a healthy immune system won't tolerate infections *for the long term* unless the immune system was depleted, to begin with.

Further, the infection also lowers immunity. It's a chicken and egg relationship.

Based on this information, and how beautifully he was able to heal EI patients in six months where other docs took 18-24, I have had a think about this in regard to lyme.

I have had to wonder (can't state for a fact, not qualified) if the lyme only tricks and outwits the immune system...because it is "down" to begin with. And because the lyme has further brought it "Down".

WOuldn't it make sense that to bolster immunity would help to heal the body?

FYI this is not a high-tech innoculation thing and is age-old. Strengthening the body's defenses is exactly how naturopathic medicine works. Homeopathy works in this way, introducing tiny (Dilute) substances to challenge the immune system and to stimulate it to action, rather than to suppress symptoms. Herbs are capable of targeting specified natural killer cells, T cells, B cells et al. I am not talking about so-called old wives' tales, I am talking about clinical research with double blind studies et al. Read Buhner, read here: www.healthy.net www.pubmed.gov

See also my thread about naturopathic books by people who are truly scientists in this field, I am talking about people who will draw molecular chains on the board the moment you mention any herb from any part of the world and who have decades of practicing experience, know more about pharmacology than pharmacists I have talked to, etc. These are sources where you can learn about the constituents and how they act in the body: http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=105728;p=0

I wanted to underscore more about what you said above, Metallic Blue, about the need for immune stimulation by exposure to allergens et al.

I attended a panel discussion with 6 physicians, 5 of these were naturopaths and one was a mainstream oncologist.

The oncologist----mainstream---mentioned something interesting. He said that he observed that massively, his cancer patients said that they had hardly been sick a day in their lives...until they were diagnosed with cancer. He said he thinks that we really need our exposures to flus, viruses, allergies et al, to strengthen the immune system and ward of worse disease later on.

The naturopaths unanimously agreed, offering insights about how vaccines actually delay symptoms like chicken pox, only to come back decades later with a vengeance in the form of shingles et al.

Again, in naturopathic approaches (I am not a doctor, just quoting what I Have read and know from being a patient), they strengthen immunity as one approach to helping the body heal itself.

This is age-old wisdom and is not a medical break-through.

Just the same, I am glad if some mainstream researchers are finally catching on.

And dare I say it? Catching *up* with naturopathic approaches! Haha.

FYI I think there is a time and a place for mainstream medicine too. I think both mainstream and naturopathics work hand and glove, each filling in gaps for the other. So I am not advocating one approach above the other.

That said, I do think that naturopathic medicine has solutions for us that the mainstream may be lacking.

Read Buhner's book, it has a lot of solutions to the lyme problem and why many people relapse, why some don't get well, and what can be done about it. Which herbs raise which exact NK cells, thus enabling people to get well, how to use herbs to better deliver abx to areas of the body where the bugs hide out, thereby reducing the likelihood of relapse later on, etc.

Thanks for all this research and this absolutely fascinating, detailed and well researched report! I am going to read and re-read this, thank you again Metallic Blue! Fantastic.

Best wishes, CI


The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and does not diagnose, cure or prevent any disease.

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chiquita incognita
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quote:
"Despite the transitory misery, colds.... activate and exercise many immune functions--like a fire drill. Colds are not considered serious in systems of traditional healing--for instance, in Chinese Medicine they are considered "surface" phenomenon...In fact, our opportunity is to feel better after the cold because of the excellent healing and environmental "adjustments" our bodies have accomplished." http://www.healthy.net/Health/Article/Herbal_Primer_Using_the_Healing_Herbs/908

I would also strongly suggest people read up about ligustrum, see a brief outline here: www.christopherhobbs.com see also www.healthy.net

And the medicinal mushrooms http://www.amazon.com/MycoMedicinals-Informational-Mushrooms-Paul-Stamets/dp/0963797190/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301687303&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Medicinal-Mushrooms-Exploration-Tradition-Healing/dp/1570671435/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301687353&sr=1-1


And about andrographis in this book http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Prevention-Borreliosis-Coinfections/dp/0970869630/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301687436&sr=1-1

See immune strengthening article here: http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?Id=904

CAUTION: Reishi, ginseng may stimulate adrenal function which is desireable in debilitated, exhausted states ie "tired" but not in "wired" states like where there is agitation, nerve zaps, electrical sensations et al.

The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and does not diagnose, cure or prevent any disease. Drugs and herbs may interact, talk with your doctor. Be sure your doctor knows of any herbs or supplements you do, to be sure s/he knows how to fine-tune diagnostic pictures and can monitor your progress accurately.

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chiquita incognita
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Hi again Metallic Blue and everybody here
This is some fabulous and very exciting research, Metallic Blue!

1) Let me clarify how auto-immune attack works, in my best understanding. This may clear up some questions that were asked above:

A) An antigen (foreign matter, bug, allergen, etc) attaches itself to a body's cell

B) The immune system is coded to recognize self and non-self. When it sees the body's own self, it leaves the cell alone. When it sees the body's own cell with an attached particle to it, it mistakes the cell as "non-self" and starts to attack it, mistakenly treating it as a foreign invader.

So when spirochetes are embedded in the body's own cells, this could happen, at least in my best understanding.

This yields lesions, arthritis, other symptoms.

So to answer the question: Why is it that the immune system is "bent" by the bugs, and is "held down"...yet goes on overdrive at the same time?

This is how. *In my best understanding*.

I am not a doctor so I could be seeing only part of the picture, and I could have an inaccuracy or two in my understanding. Having read at length for the past seven years, I believe this is fairly correct however. (There may be additional factors too. The balance of immune cells is also key. Some cells go on attack mode, others hold them down, like a system of checks and balances. If this system is imbalanced, you can also get immune hyperactivity or underactivity, depending on which way the scales are tipped).

2) I also have read naturopaths who write that it's not genes acting alone, but it's when those same genes (said to make us vulnerable to certain things) interact with environment, then we get problems.

Protect those genes from unwanted triggers, and the same person with "genetic" illness will be less likely to develop it. (Not "unlikely" and not "immune", just *less likely*, perhaps even much less likely, in my best understanding).

Environment can mean internal: Toxicity, endocrine imbalance, nutritional imbalance, allergies, stress, other things.

It can be external: Toxicity from the outside world coming in, whether this is eaten, breathed in, soaked through the skin, etc.

3) I think it would be exciting if this research leads to further integrative practice in medicine with naturopathics and mainstream, working together. Naturopathy is long since "on to" these principles which you are writing about, as said. It's thousands of years old, in fact. However to have it integrated together would be very, very exciting. University of San Francisco's Medical CEnter is in fact integrating mainstream with acupuncture, already. So is Kaiser. This is where the future is at, I think and hope!

4) Buhner has written a book about natural ways to tackle the problem of microbes without antibiotics which cause resistance. I think the time is going to come, soon, when medicine can no longer sustain teh wide-spread use of antibiotics because of the resistance problems. To find other ways will be key.


Please let me reiterate how excited I am with your research, Metallic Blue! Sorry if my first post did not accurately reflect that. This is indeed very exciting news and I hope this takes flight through the community. If it does, medicine at large will be changed, not only lyme treatment.

Maybe the lyme illness will result in new paradigms in medicine. And we will have done the world a huge favor, even as we have suffered along the way to enable that change to happen. Strengthening the body can be one new paradigm. Diagnosing by symptoms and not the test alone, can be another. From evil can come good, let us hope this turns around to good, for all!

Best wishes, CI

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sparkle7
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Have you looked into fulvic acid? I'm not sure if it's the same as Mycobacterium vaccae but it may be something to study.

fyi - Our Earth, Our Cure
Fulvic Acids, Shilajit and Plankton

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/fulvic.htm

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METALLlC BLUE
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I think I found the substance to connect this concept I presented to another one I presented recently. This may possibly be the key to unlocked the issue. Rather than using a microoorgism, there may be an immune modulator which is both relevant to bacterial infections, as well as other foreign substances that cause allergies and illness.

Read this page:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/86248/4

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: [email protected]

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