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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » I am on Gerson Therapy and need advice re: B12 shots and heavy metals

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Author Topic: I am on Gerson Therapy and need advice re: B12 shots and heavy metals
tosho
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Recently I've started Gerson Therapy for my Lyme Disease. One of the recommended supplements in Gerson Therapy is B12 shots. I know of three different kinds of B12 shots:
- cyanocobalamine
- hydroxycobalamine
- methylcobalamine

Does anyone know if cyanocobalamine/hydroxycobalamine B12 shots are safe for people that have or had mercury fillings?

I am asking because methylcobalamine B12 shots may be dangerous for anyone that has/had mercury fillings as it may "stir-up" mercury in the body and I would like to know whether cyanocobalamine/hydroxycobalamine poses the same risk. (I had 2 mercury fillings in the past. Taken them out but did not chelate, so I want to be on a safety side before I take B12 shots regularly.)


Here is a text about methylcobalamine and mercury:
http://www.whale.to/w/b12.html
"Note: According to the Heavy Metal Bulletin, March 1999, some researchers
[including Dr Hal Huggins] and the International Academy of Oral Medicine and
Toxicology in the USA have previously recommended caution in the use of methyl
cobalamin injections in the treatment of amalgam patients.

They feared that
vitamin B12 in that form could readily methylate mercury in the body, ie.
transform it into its more harmful form of methylmercury - when methylated,
mercury is much more easily absorbed to the blood and then transformed to
mercury ions, which are an intensely toxic form of mercury. "

I hope someone will answer, I saw that heavy-metals topic has been discussed on this board frequently.

Thank you.

--------------------
[Bb WB igm+] [B.henselae PCR+] [Chlamydia pneum.igm+igg+] [EBV igm-igg+]

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Abxnomore
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up
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canefan17
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How is the program coming along tosho?

What juicer do you have?

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sixgoofykids
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I have had centrifugal force juicers in the past, now I have a Norwalk. Totally different juice. I'm sure juicing is still good with a centrifugal juicer, but Gerson does recommend Norwalk for that program and I can see why.

If you cannot afford a Norwalk, I would look at Hurom. I've never had that juice, but it looks to be pretty good.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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BackinStOlaf
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I just posted something similar today. I'd like to know the answer too

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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sparkle7
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Six - how is the juice different. Can you describe it in more detail. I know how it's different in theory but how is it "actually" different in your experience. The Norwalk juicer is $2500! + the price of organic produce... It's a small fortune.

I mean does a centrifugal juicer really get that hot that it will destroy all enzymes? The Hurom is about $360.

I mean - any price is worth having good health but right now it's a bit out of range. There are alot of conflicting theories about diet & health. Some people think it's not as big an issue unless people have a poor diet, eat alot of junk, food, etc.

If someone eats a fairly healthy diet - is it as big an issue? Lyme, co-infections, viruses, mycoplasmas, etc. are not caused by a poor diet. In the case of cancer, it may be a different issue. I don't know if applying a "cancer cure" will really help people with Lyme.

Healthy diets, juicing, exercise, reducing stress are all good things but there are some people who live long healthy lives without doing these things. At this point, our produce may be exposed to radiation - so, is juicing necessarily a good idea in light of that?

Sorry to divert the thread. I don't know anything about B12 & mercury.

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sixgoofykids
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If I didn't get a Norwalk, I would consider the Hurom. We have the Norwalk because everyone in my husband's family gets cancer, and HE wanted it for prevention. We didn't get it for me, yet I am the one who uses it (he drinks it though).

The Norwalk juice doesn't separate. That's really the only visual I can give. Neither does the Hurom from what I hear.

The Norwalk pulp that's left over is dry. When I had centrifugal juicers, the pulp would still be useful, so I'd feed it to my birds. This is as useful as sawdust.

The juice tastes different. I don't know how to put a description on that. It's like it's more viscous than centrifugal juice. Sometimes it feels so full of nutrients that it's hard to finish a glass. But it's not thick like gravy .... but it's not thin like water.

I didn't juice through my Lyme treatment. I was already very alkaline, and that's part of the theory of juicing, to create an alkaline body. I juice now because I like it, and I think it makes my skin look healthier (in fact, 2 weeks after I started juicing, my friend took one look at me and asked what I had done ... she bought a juicer the next day). I do think you get good nutrition from it.

When I juice I will juice maybe 8 carrots, a celery heart, and a whole beet with greens. I could never sit and eat that much raw food.

I supplement HCL, and I eat acidic foods to balance out the alkalinity.

Again, I started this after Lyme treatment. I did it for YEARS prior to getting sick, and I re-started it a couple months ago.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Dawn in VA
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If you have methylation pathway issues (certain genetic mutations like MTHFR, MTR, etc.), then I'd consider sticking with methylcobalamin so you have the methyl donor you lack b/c of those mutations.

If not, sorry, I'm not sure which would be best. Hope others chime in.

(I have 2 amalgams left and I take the methyl form, but then again, I have those issues above.)

--------------------
(The ole disclaimer: I'm not a doctor.)

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canefan17
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That's interesting sixgoof

I have similar opinions regarding being too alkaline

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Razzle
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Some methylation pathway genomic issues can actually cause someone to over-methylate, in which case the hydroxy form of B12 is better.

I think Dr. Yasko recommends multiple forms of B12 for those with methylation issues.

In terms of metals, I'm not sure I buy the whole don't take methyl-B12 thing... I actually feel very good when I get methyl-B12. But I also don't go overboard because I don't want to lose tolerance for it. So I just do enough to keep my blood levels at the high end of the normal range and call it good (I can tell by symptoms when I need to get another shot; I don't absorb B12 orally or sublingually at all...tried that for years and my blood levels just kept dropping).

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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sparkle7
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Thanks. I heard a whole raw beet may be too much. I forget why, exactly. I think it's supposed to be like 1/4 beet per serving. I think it might be too overstimulating to the kidneys.

Ginger juice is good for many things, too. I found it helpful for pain.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure! Good luck to your husband.

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James1979
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How does someone know if they have methelation issues?
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sixgoofykids
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I don't have a beet every time.

I don't like ginger in juice. Garlic is supposed to be good, too, but I don't like it either.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sparkle7
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The methylation thing is really complicated. I think there are tests but they are pretty expensive. Dr. Yaskow does genetic testing - I believe. Some people just try a simplified protocol rather than do all the testing. You could find the "simplified methylation protocol" if you google it.

For juice - I would add apple, ginger & lemon to the carrots, celery, beets, parsley... All mixed together, it tastes good. I can see why people wouldn't like ginger, though. It's a bit spicey.

I'm not big on raw garlic - I think I'm allergic to it. I used to like it on Jersey tomatoes with olive oil & balsamic vinegar...

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Razzle
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quote:
Originally posted by James1979:
How does someone know if they have methelation issues?

There is a blood test that checks for genetic SNP's that can influence the function of the methylation cycle. The lowest cost version of this test that I know of can be found here (I have no financial connection with this website/company/MD):
http://www.holisticheal.com/health-tests/nutrigenomic-testing/comprehensive-methylation-panel-with-methylation-pathway-analysis.html

For more info on Methylation, see:

http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm

http://aboutmecfs.org.violet.arvixe.com/RsRch/GSHMethylation.aspx

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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sparkle7
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Has treating the methylation issue helped anyone here? Just curious...

Also - I have tried "extreme" healthy diets at many points in my life & they didn't improve my health. Just my experience. I think having a healthy diet is important but I'm not sure how much it really effects a major health issue.

I guess it depends on the person. Everyone here has unique issues.

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GiGi
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Fiber is not dead food. Fiber may not mean food to us, but it means food for microorganisms - they are usually the good ones. They make butyric acid and a few other valuables out of it which we need for our healthy function.

If you think you need to juice, put the fiber in a jar and eat it throughout the day. Butyric acid measured in the stool goes up by a high percent within a few days nurturing the good bacteria and shifting the balance between good and bad very quickly.

I stopped juicing years ago because I learned that anything taken in such concentrated amounts is not necessarily healthy longterm. I also can't control the methods to grow these foods, the condition and surrounding of the fields, the handling of organic foods that seem to never spoil but only get wrinkly, etc. etc., growing seasons, local or foreign farmers.

And I have learned over time that anything in excess does not seem to serve us/myfamily well longterm.

Take care.

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GiGi
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Chiq,

"because immunity is weak to begin with? If immunity was stronger, would the bugs be as able to dodge and trick and inhibit this body system? Maybe not? I have to wonder."

Yes, it is well known among the informed that a very high percentage carry the infection, yet do not get ill as long as they have a functional immune system. Once that border is crossed, a stress event takes place, a root canal is added, --- that is what may easily bring the barrel to overflow.

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by GiGi:

If you think you need to juice, put the fiber in a jar and eat it throughout the day.

Not possible with the Norwalk. Bunnies and goats won't even eat the pulp because it's the consistency of sawdust.

I agree that fiber is necessary. The idea of juicing isn't to get rid of fiber from the diet. I hope no one understood me to be saying that! Sheesh.

Juicing hasn't reduced my fiber intake at all ..... it's increased my vegetable intake.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sparkle7
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There are SO many concepts of "diet". It's really hard to know which to follow. The ancient Chinese thought people who ate raw foods were barbarians! I think the idea of a salad in China is just starting to become relevant to them with the influx of Western ideas of diet.

I think the idea of juicing is for the enzymes, phytochemicals & vitamins. I would have a juice every day or so if it were more convenient. I can see that it does concentrate any bad stuff like pesticides or radiation which may be on the produce.

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