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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » as told by Dr. K. at his Lyme Seminar 1/06 (Page 2)

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Author Topic: as told by Dr. K. at his Lyme Seminar 1/06
canefan17
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seek,

I think it's pretty simple.

No one is forcing you guys to read it and/or agree with it.

When I first dove into the Lyme Game I took a hard look at Rife machines and thought to myself, "what the hell is this?"

I thought it was a joke.

Now I've been in direct contact with people who've used and give credit to rife machines as the most important treatment on their road to recovery.

So at this point - I've learned to keep an open-mind.

And Dr K seems to be a wealth of knowledge (whether I agree with it all or not)

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kday
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Opinions aside, I find the word Quack offensive.

Why?

It is "Lyme Quacks" that have helped me turn my excruciating days into days that are livable.

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Tammy N.
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What impresses me about Dr. K is that he has put together more pieces of the puzzle than most anyone else out there..... infections, Lyme, heavy metal toxicity, parasites, dental issues, hydration, HPU/KPU, etc etc etc. And the way the information has been conveyed makes it understandable how all of these elements are inter-related. At least for me anyway. KPU alone has been a HUGE breakthrough for many people. It has been THE pivotal thing to them getting well.

And, moreover, he is very generous with all of the information that he puts out for free, just to help people. Thanks to him, many of us are able to print out his presentations and protocols and bring them to our doctors. And I like that a lot of his protocols remind me of the oath "first, do no harm". He doesn't first reach for the heavy hitting pharmaceuticals that can be very damaging to us (plus, most of us who go off the meds end up crashing and needing to go back on; what kind of a life is that??). These meds have not been very kind to me and I'm looking for a well thought-out way to a different approach that covers all of the bases. Right now I've been very happy with what I have learned from him and am hopeful for better health in the future. There's no downside for trying.

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Amanda
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well, I am a scientist, so here are my thoughts

1. First, thank you Gigi for posting this information.

2. I don't know if Dr. K is exaggerating or not. However, I DO believe that many of the people that go see him (now) suspect lyme. Therefore, it is more likely that his "sample population" will tend towrds being positive.

I think if you really want to know how many people with ALS or MS have lyme, you need to randomly select, from all over the US and many differetn MDs. 1,000 would be a good number. BUT, in order to do that, you need to have a test method that is at least 90% accurate.

3. I don't know what Dr. K means when he says a positive test. His idea of positive might mean coming up positive on one or two bands of the western blot. IF that is the case, then he would in fact see many more positives than others.

4. There are many excellent LLMDs out there that have had professional opinions about this disease that later turned out not to be the case for every lyme patient.

5. Science moves forward by people taking risks and pushing into the liminal space of what is known and unknown. Therefore, its risky because you have a good chance of being wrong.

Because of this fact, I am willing to cut Dr. K some slack, even though I don't agree with many of his assersions. Maybe something will trigger other ideas that bring medicine forward

6.

--------------------
"few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain

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Camp Other
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Pinelady, I'm sorry, but whatever connections you are making with what Dr. K said to your citations are not obvious, and I am still hoping for a summary from you about your reasons behind why you think Dr. K is right about everything he said.

I just read the article you cited above, "Discovery of diverse Borrelia burgdorferi strains in a bird-tick cryptic cycle" and what it says is that they have found birds carrying many different strains of Borrelia that might be picked up by different kinds of ticks and passed to humans and other animals. Science already knows there are many different strains of Borrelia with varying virulence - there are just more we didn't identify before.

How does this study support your beliefs about Dr. K's transcribed presentation?

If anything, it could provide confirmation that Ixodes dentatus is responsible for transmission of more strains of Borrelia in birds and rabbits. From there, of course different Ixodes may be able to pick up the Borrelia and pass them on to other hosts.

Sorry if I am not following your reasoning here, but I would like a more detailed overview of how your citations relate to what you have decided.

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Pinelady
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Camp they have used all kinds of animals rabbits/dogs/cows/chickens/etc. in our vaccines.

Plus what they have given our cattle as tick repellent.

If they refuse to find the protein now do you really think they knew what if anything they were seeing then?

It is in the eggs/ovaries/offspring. And there is no way to kill the protein nor do they know for sure how it is activated.

But they do know it is there...

http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/gkp027#SEC5

The present studies extended characterization of the B. burgdorferi EbfC protein,

demonstrating that this small protein both specifically and nonspecifically binds DNA,

can bind DNA independently of context

and alters DNA conformation.

Site-directed mutagenesis approaches were also employed to investigate the mode of interaction between EbfC and DNA.

Other studies have been done proving it binds non the less with everything they have put it up against...

Dr. K is right they have never seen what the borrelia is packing before and they sure don't know how to treat it.

Science has much yet to learn before we are through, and I don't think it will ever be through if we are given enough time.

But we are lucky...Those that have already given their lives for this ignorance when you can control it and send it into remission will help millions if we can make them accept this truth.

I have wrote asking for conference transcripts twice to where these findings were presented.

In fact they sat at a roundtable discussion with the good fellows at the IDSA and I cannot get a reply. But know this---I don't trust them for one second.

Esp. now that China says we only need one band.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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the3030club
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I'm sorry. I still don't believe this man is truly trying to help anyone but himself.

Apparently that makes me an offensive jerk.

Without fail i get ostracized whenever i don't agree with a doctor or therapy.

I won't post on this thread anymore.

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canefan17
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^^^ You start throwin the word 'quack' around and you're going to ruffle a few feathers. What'd you expect?

Especially when many on this board have been helped by Dr K - either directly or indirectly.

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LymeMom Kellye
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What I can say about Dr K is that his writings and transcripts have helped me to look at Lyme and the ravages it has done to my family and their health in a different way. I've learned that there are other options and other ideas to consider.

I never blindly agree with everything that any one person says. I have learned to look at the facts, do my own research and form my own opinions.

I try always to keep an open mind.

There is a saying from AA "Take what you need, and leave the rest."

This disease is hard, probably the hardest thing that my family has ever had to face. I am grateful to Dr's K, B and J and many others who have dared to stick their necks out in an attempt to get us well.

I think they all deserve our respect, even when we don't understand or disagree with their ideas and methods.

I wonder how many have gotten well under Dr K's care that weren't able to on abx and with more traditional treatments?

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AlanaSuzanne
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3030, no one here called you an "offensive jerk" .. those are your words. And I don't see how you have been "ostracized" on this thread. Some here disagree with your position.

Like canefan said, when you start saying that a Lyme doc is a "quack" you are certainly going to ruffle feathers.

And you did ruffle my feathers when you said that "unsubstantiated claims made by members of this website are jarring"

Like I said previously, do you expect that we all should conduct clinical studies to prove our personal experiences?

Again, IMO we all just posting based on our personal experiences and that should not be subject to biting criticism.

So I disagree with you. That doesn't mean I think you are a jerk or that you should be ostracized. We are all entitled to our opinions. And our opinions and experiences are what shape this forum.

Disagreements or differences of opinion among us doesn't mean we are enemies. I believe that despite any differences we may have, we all wish each other the best.

So eventhough I disagree with you, at the end of the day I realize that you are going through your own personal hell and I hope and pray that you regain your health.

Tammy and Amanda I agree with you. Campother, thanks for requesting clarity. Pinelady, thank you again for the links and info.

--------------------
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

---Eleanor Roosevelt

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Hambone
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I think it was the second or third time I went to my LLMD, I met a man just a tad younger than me who was sitting in my doctor's IV suite getting IV's for Lyme. He was very sick ( I'm pretty sure he's a member here but I don't know his username. He actually referred me here ).

Anyway, he was so incredibly sick and had been for a few years. My LLMD finally encouraged him to go see Dr. K.

So he flew all the way across the country sick as a dog. This was in early December.

Dr. K diagnosed him with something completely different. Not Lyme.

He sent me an email a week or so ago and said he is about 75-80% better already and is starting to exercise again.

I do not think Dr. K is a quack at all.

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Keebler
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-
GiGi,

Thanks for this thread. And keep posting, please.

Dr. K's work is extremely important. As I've read it over the years, bit by bit, even from a few years ago, this excerpt reminds us just how serious lyme is - and we need to keep that in mind as we hope to improve.

I wish more doctors had the sheer determination as Dr. K to find the real truths for each patient. He is an excellent role model for doctors.
-

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Pinelady
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21251438 2010 Dec Because of the numerous cases observed in the region, new hospitals were opened in Dalmatian towns and the patients were hospitalized.
---------------------
Can you imagine building hospitals to take care of so many with a spirochetal disease....Even if they were not positive on the tests..

My grandfather spent a whole year in one in Louisville for what they diagnosed as TB...After watching him die for 10yrs. I am not sure at all it was ever just TB..It is all too familiar.

We need a National Awakening of our Experts to come together on recognition of what this really is...

They are adding to the syndromes everyday, when we should have been living to be in the 100's with all the "Protection" they have given the public.

Yet more are dying before their time than ever before and not for reasons they died in the past.

For shame what they have done for a mighty dollar that has not even given us the time to enjoy what little we have.

Everything they say here can be refuted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21258649 2010 I consider this overdone, and robbing the public in broad daylight. You and I dear friend just help pay JH.s who work for drug companies to hide from the truth while still profiting even longer...
This review summarizes how mitochondrial pathobiology might contribute to neuronal death in AD, PD, and ALS and could serve as a target for drug therapy.
---------------------------
You see as long as we let them get away with saying it is in our genes and it is our fault and nothing can be done to fix that we will continue to watch all suffer for their greed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21217173
2011 Feb
Such patients usually have certain HLA-DRB1 molecules that bind an epitope of B. burgdorferi outer-surface protein A ...(OspA₁₆₃₋₁₇₅),

and cellular and humoral immune responses to OspA are greater in patients with antibiotic-refractory arthritis than in those with antibiotic-responsive arthritis.
----------------
This is what they want you to think.

The fact is all immune systems are different and you cannot compare mouse models to us...

That mouse has not been exposed to over 70 live/killed/genetically altered vaccine and immunizations,

and he may be one of those that gets Alzheimers down the road.

The robbing cheating stealing of lives for profit must stop.
----------------------------

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Keebler
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-
Pinelady,

Hey, thanks for all your links in all your posts.

We had a whole TB hospital in my town, too, just two blocks from my house.

In tonight's State of the Union address, I just kept thinking of what they are all missing: knowledge of lyme/TBD. That lack of knowledge is a national risk, a risk to the future of all citizens. How it can be ignored is just beyond comprehension.

Oh, not that I expected it to be mentioned but, watching from my world, it's a different planet, indeed. Not one LLMD in my state - or in many states. No country can be strong if people don't have doctors knowledgeable in stealth infections.
-

[ 01-26-2011, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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jl123
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The big picture is that most people the usa and europe are actually relatively healthy. They are active, they are hard working, most people actually are able to work- indicating most are not critically disabled as DR.K says so many with lyme are.

Yes there are many with lyme who are sick.
No lyme has not HIT everyone nor near everyone as some here would have you believe. If pinelady and others wish to tell us lymenet-ers that most people in the world are actually ill with lyme then they are losing tough with reality. J

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glm1111
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You can walk around with Lyme and not have many symptoms from cradle to grave. The same thing is true with parasites which BTW, statistics say over 90% of the population has a least one parasite.

These pathogens become a problem when other factors come into play to stress the immune system.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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Pinelady
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I don't call a baby being diagnosed with "Autism" every 4 minutes losing tough with reality.

Nor one every minute from Alzheimers, or one every hour with MS.

I call it looking out for what's to come.

I call it a heinous crime right under our noses. And just who is going to pay for it. The 15 million Americans out of work? Yea right.

We know it is not going to be us paying for taking care of all of them...

Its going to be our kids and their kids, They are the only ones with the knowledge to survive,

everyone else thinks they are just stuck with their syndrome,

and I don't want to leave this world thinking we did nothing to give them a better life by making them pay more taxes for THEIR mistakes.

But that is just the way I think.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Pinelady
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http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/o.o.i.s?news_item=5467&id=24890

Unfolding pathogenesis in Parkinsons Breakthrough suggests damaged proteins travel between cells

19 January 2011

The study, published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation, reveals that damaged alpha-synuclein proteins (which are implicated in Parkinsons disease) can spread in a prion-like manner, an infection model previously described for diseases such as BSE (mad cow disease).

This is a significant step forward in our understanding of the potential role of cell-to-cell transfer of alpha-synuclein in Parkinsons disease pathogenesis and we are very excited about the findings, says Professor Patrik Brundin at Lund University, Sweden, who led a team of investigators from research centres in Denmark, France and Portugal.

The theory has now been tested in several cell culture experiments. Dr Christian Hansen, one of the key investigators, explains the importance of the new findings:

We have now shown that alpha-synuclein not only can transfer from one cell to another, but also that the transferred protein can seed aggregation of alpha-synuclein in recipient cells as well. This could be an important mechanism for the spread of the pathology.
------------------
This is the same thing that is happening in borrelia.
The proteins are being transferred in the tweezer like domain and misfolding with the other entities/coinfections to create disease.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by seekhelp:


I just get the impression that whatever Dr K posts/says in whatever forum/seminar/book is taken as gospel.

Not by everyone.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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katiebobatie
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that was very helpful!

thank you so much for posting!

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canefan17
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glm,

The more I've researched parasites I'm quite convinced we ALL (100%) have them.

Some are friendly - some not so much.
As you said - some people show signs from them - some live in a peaceful balance WITH them.

But if you've ever eaten at a restaurant or taken OTC drugs you have parasites to some degree.

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jackie51
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I tend to believe what Dr. K says. What we may find, if he is indeed wrong or has exaggerated, is that there are very similar yet not discovered stealth infections to borrelia that mimic lyme symptoms. I think he is doing all he can to help people. He has helped many, that is indisputable.

Why the medical community has many heads buried in the sand is simple. People are reluctant to change. I think until someone is affected personally, they just don't tend to care.

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Keebler
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-
Dr. K has never ever said that other stealth infections are not involved with lyme. We all know they are. As apljack says, I'd bet we will be discovering more as time goes on. We are learning more about XMRV/HGRM now. And I'm sure that will be helpful.

Still, along with Dr. K., many LLMDs has consistently given respect to many co-infections and co-conditions (mercury, parasites, etc.) that many others fail to consider, to the peril of patients.

Lyme has moved this from being "just" lyme to a "Lyme Complex" sort of puzzle (as another LLMD has termed it). Anyone who thinks lyme is ever just lyme is probably going to be very disappointed with the results.

Lyme is never just lyme. And nothing is ever simple where lyme is involved. Lyme, and all that comes with it, changes nearly everything - while not in every case - surely, most of the time, for most patients.

It's shocking, frightening and overwhelming to consider the full picture - and how that can differ from patient to patient - and the sheer complexity of it all but those doctors who are honest and courageous enough to keep looking, thinking and expanding awareness are the ones who are most likely to help us.
-

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tick battler
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jl123 - you talk pretty confidently about your knowledge with regard to the health of our society. What do you base this on? I frankly think the opposite is true.

What makes you think that not many have lyme? I think you need to do a bit more research on this one. Everywhere I look, I see sick people. I happen to live in an endemic area, but still...lyme is EVERYWHERE if you know what to look for. Most people I meet around here have migraines or digestive issues or sleep issues or arthritis.

I feel that most of us are infected but the range of symptoms in people goes from none to being bedridden. Whether you get really sick depends on genes, detox capabilities, environment and, of course, extent of infection.

I'm sure you won't believe in this, but our practitioner has the ability to detect lyme in people very accurately through bioenergetic testing. She sees it in over 90% of the people she screens with her machine. Some have symptoms and others don't (or don't realize that their mild health issues are related to lyme.)

I lived with aches and pains ans stomach issues for 25 years until I figured out what was wrong. But I had a full career and had three kids before I figured it out. I was very active and no one would have known I was not healthy. But I could have lived much more comfortably if I had known what was causing my issues and treated it. The only reason I figured it out is because my three young children and husband became much sicker than me.

tickbattler

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Pinelady
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I hope the above researchers don't end up like Wakefield and others without a country

for finding a organism without a home that wasn't supposed to be there.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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JunkYardWily
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i found his claims ridiculous. that doesnt mean they are false. i just feel the odds on them being true is very remote.

to me there is so much unknown about this disease that the claims he made cant possibly be proven.

drs/scientists havent even developed a test showing active infection. instead we must use antibodies to see if we have/had the disease. we are just past the stone ages in this disease in my opinion.

--------------------
sick since 9-09
igg, 18,23,41 reactive
igm, 41 reactive

Posts: 436 | From Kansas City | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sixgoofykids
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Dr. K does do alternative therapies, but I wouldn't refer to him as "super-alternative". He uses high dose abx for Lyme when needed. He just takes care of other issues as well as infection.

I don't agree with everything he says, but I highly respect his opinions.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Pinelady
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JunkYard--Wakefields studies were confirmed by Singh and others...

He just didn't know it was the proteins trying to hide it...He didn't see that part.

I believe the genetics of the infectious organisms is melding with the protein causing Autism.

Now that the Swedish researchers find it can "spread" its protein should be a clue to new treatments.

Maybe we all do need Stem Cells or something to turn our fight systems on quick...

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Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lauralyme
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Thanks for posting Gigi

I think he's brilliant and I'm grateful for someone that thinks outside the box

I agree with Tick Battler
There are TONS of people walking around with lyme and they don't know it. I see obvious cases of it all the time.

It's just so sad that Naturopaths are not picking up on it either.

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Fall down seven times, get up eight
~Japanese proverb

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Pinelady
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http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_British_Medical_Journal.html

Documents emerge proving Dr Andrew Wakefield innocent; BMJ and Brian Deer caught misrepresenting the facts
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So far I have yet to see Mike Adams publish anything that was not true...
I wish he would do more.
=================
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/study-shows-link-to-mitochondrial-dysfunction-in-children-with-autism-114594789.html
MELBOURNE, Fla., Jan. 25, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- According to a study published in Molecular Psychiatry by Dr. Daniel Rossignol (International Child Development Resource Center, Melbourne FL, Aid for Autism) and Dr. Richard Frye (University of Texas), children with autism are more likely to have abnormal function of a key part of the cell called the mitochondria (http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2010136a.html).

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Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lightparfait
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Well I am going to his next evening lyme seminar in NYC on Feb 12th. It will be interesting to hear what he adds to his last talk!
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tick battler
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light- My husband and I will be there too!
tickbattler

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Tammy N.
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My husband and I are going as well. As is another couple friend of ours. Maybe we can try to say hello before the talk.

We are going in a little early to spend time with our friends, have dinner, etc., then plan to get to the hotel early. Perhaps we Lymenet friends can meet in the lobby or conference room around 6ish?? It would be nice to meet each other. What do you think?

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Pinelady
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UMMMM--I HOPE YOU GUYS SHARE!!! LOL

Have a great time...

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Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seekhelp
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Sounds like a huge Lymenet party y'all. [Smile]
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
paulieinct
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So Dr. K. is saying German docs were treating Lyme disease back in the 70's before it was even on our radar in US. Does anyone know what they were calling the disease? Did they know it was a tick-borne disease? Obviously, they did not know it was Bb until Burgdorfer discovered the organism.

Did they know that the psychiatric cases were just another manifestation of the same disease?
When Dr. K talks about his own mother being institutionalized for psychiatric Lyme, that really got my attention. Both my parents had severe psych issues and were hospitalized. I know now it was Lyme. Huge epiphany for me.

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Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that.

Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pinelady
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Lots of us have family like that we can relate to paulieinct.

Most people can now put it together where before and still is to some

a poo poo subject that no one wanted to relate...

What they are doing to those with psych symptoms in this hellish disease is of the many things to change.

Nothing wrong with their blood they are psych.

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Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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