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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Chelation and shaking

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Author Topic: Chelation and shaking
Chronic Triathlete
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I'm on my 3rd week of IV chelation and a couple of things have come up. Need some feedback.

My symptoms are mostly neuro and since starting the Chelation they've jumped off the charts. They're far worse than they've ever been and it's starting to really freak me out.

Mostly I'm getting a shaking in my arms and legs when I flex the muscles. For example... if I'm sitting in a chair with my feet flat on the ground there's no shaking. But if I bring my heels up and sort of point my toes while still touching them to the floor, my calves and thighs shake uncontrollably.

Dropping my heels back down stops it, but I cannot control it otherwise.

Hands too, if I try to do some sort of fine motor movement like write fast they start to shake and my writing becomes illegible.

Again, no twitching or shaking at rest... only when flexing.

My LLMD told me to be on the lookout for a herx from the Chelation and I suppose this could be that. I've had this symptom off and on in the past, but never this severe and never for this long (3 weeks).

LLMD has me taking homeopathic Selenium and Zinc drops 2x a day, but that's it.

My question are:
1: Herx or effects of the Chelation?
2: Do I need to be taking any other replacements besides the Selenium and Zinc?
3: Anybody else experience this while Chelating?

Thanks!
CT

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lauralyme
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Chelation also pulls out all the minerals.
These need to be replaced.

Are you taking magnesium? I found magnesium oil used transdermally to be really effective.

After DMPS injections in the Dr's office I always follow it with a Vit C IV

--------------------
Fall down seven times, get up eight
~Japanese proverb

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tosho
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First of all chelation does not cause herxing. You can't say "I am herxing" whenever you take anything and feel worse.

You can read here what herxheimer reaction means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction

What you experience sounds like side-effects of the chelation or maybe heavy metals redistribution (it may happen when you do the chelation in a wrong way).

Also, chelation is not always safe:
http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml
Although stories like in the link above are rather rare, it is good to be informed.

--------------------
[Bb WB igm+] [B.henselae PCR+] [Chlamydia pneum.igm+igg+] [EBV igm-igg+]

Posts: 844 | From Poland | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chronic Triathlete
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tosho... My LLMD disagrees with you. He says that the Chelation I'm doing can dissolve biofilms and allow the immune system get at the bugs. He specifically told me to look out for a herx and may put me back on abx while chelating for this reason.

I'm also not doing DMPS. It's CA EDTA, but thanks for the freaky info.

Lauralyme... I'm not taking Mg. I'm also not getting a shot. It's an IV of CA EDTA along with a bunch of B vitamins, C and E (I think).

What's the best/right kind of Mg to take?

Thanks!
CT

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mattnapa
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There have been recent conversations on Mg if you use the search feature to find them
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CD57
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I had this exact thing early on in tx but I was not chelating. I wonder if you are in fact dissolving biofilm (is that why you are doing it)?

Anyway, it is totally freaky, but apparently not serious.

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Chronic Triathlete
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CD57... it's not for biofilms specifically. I have high lead and other metals. My LLMD just said clearing biofilms was a bonus of the EDTA.

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
momlyme
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Chronic Triathlete - do you have high mercury as well as lead?

Is there some reason your LLMD recommended EDTA?

From my research EDTA is specific to lead AND should not be used by itself if you still have mercury. It does not grab the mercury and may be redistributing it... this MAY be what your shaking is.

I would add a frequent dose (every 3-4 hours)oral chelation with DMSA or DMPS if you do have mercury.

(I am not a doctor)

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chronic Triathlete
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momlyme... mercury was "normal" but I'll ask about it on Tuesday when I go back for another round. Thnx.

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
momlyme
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In answer to #2... I would say you need to be taking zinc and other trace minerals. Not necessarily selenium (only), but a mix of all trace minerals.

From the archives of the Mercury-Autism chelation support group:

EDTA can and usually will cause zinc depletion and people with mercury problems are invariably low in zinc and don't absorb it well.

EDTA is well known to be of no clinical utility for the treatment of mercury toxicity, the old
textbooks from before DMSA say this, it is what continues to be observed.

EDTA DOES work fine for lead. DMSA works better for lead. DMSA does not cause zinc depletion (the elevations of copper and zinc seen in urine when taking DMSA are not significant since almost all of the copper and zinc excreted actually comes out in the feces
and DMSA doesn't increase this).

When someone has a lead problem and does not have any significant amount of mercury,
AND they have a problem with DMSA, then it is perfectly rational to use EDTA.

One situation where this might be true is someone who gets neutropenia (a reduction in a
specific kind of white blood cell) when they take DMSA, and who has lead but no mercury.

Another situation where EDTA is appropriate is in vascular disease, such as when someone
is referred for bypass surgery but doesn't want to be split open like a side of beef and
then suffer enough brain damage from the extensive insult of the surgery to lose 10 or so
IQ points permanently. This is in fact its most common use.

Each drug is good for what it does, the doctor's job is to actually know something
about what the drugs do so s/he can make a diagnosis and prescribe the drug that actually
treats that condition.
_______________

This post was written by Andrew Cutler, Author of "Amalgam Illness" He is a chemist, not a medical doctor.

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chronic Triathlete
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momlyme... Thanks. I just looked over my latest blood test for metals and my Mercury levels were below measurable levels (didn't show at all).

I'm "very elevated" in Lead, Gadolinium, Cadmium, Nickel and "elevated" in Aluminum and Uranium (I work with Homer Simpson).

Chelation is a big part of my LLMD's practice so I feel like he knows what he's doing. Still, I'll ask about it tomorrow when I go in for my next IV.

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Igor's mom
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My right leg shakes when i bring the heel off the ground just as you describe. I am only recently been diagnosed and been through a battery of neuro tests. I think its the lyme or babs or bart affecting the nerves but thats just a guess. I find that when I take my anti-depressionand anti-anxiety meds I am less shakey. But I am not doing any chelation at all.....

--------------------
Igenenex + IGM 18, 23-25, 31, 41, 66, FL 1953, bart, babs, erlich, c diff. Dox 10/10,11/10-5/11 Mino, Buluoke,plaq (2/10) zith (3/11-5/11), Paragone, Flagyl, Ivermectin, Paromomycin, Ceftin, Nystatin(4/11) mepron (4/11-)BW A-L , A-Bart, A-Bab.

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seibertneurolyme
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There are 2 kinds of EDTA chelation -- I think the calcium EDTA is the one done in about 20 - 30 minutes. The old method of EDTA chelation took 2 or 3 hours. Many people even those without tickborne illnesses have problems with newer quicker form of EDTA.

Hubby only did the calcium EDTA chelation one time and I don't think I would ever let him do that again. He had a very bad reaction. At the time he was taking oral pepto bismol for what was most likely gastritis. His test results did show elevated bismuth.

Buhner has written an article on using bismuth and calcium EDTA to treat lyme. I personally don't think that is a safe treatment.

Before tickborne illnesses when hubby did IV DMPS for mercury chelation his main symptoms were a Parkinsonian tremor and dry heaves. He could go to the chelation appointment shaking like a leaf and trying to throw up and leave the appointment ready for lunch and go back to work in the afternoon.

I think it is possible that you might have a low level of mercury that did not show up yet. Was the initial test a challenge test? If the challenge test did not use DMSA or DMPS then I am not sure the mercury levels would be accurate.

Bea Seibert

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Abxnomore
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I've done both sodium and calcium EDTA. But I also did Vit. C drips with it and took NAC, ALA, garlic, MSM , Vit. C and cilantro along with it.

I was also on a whole range of general supplements for general support, especially B vitamins.

It's also important to have your kidney clearance checked a few sessions into starting.

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Chronic Triathlete
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seibertneurolyme... I'm not sure what a "challenge" is, but I did oral DSMA twice with no real feeling either way. The first results were very high in lead (and others). The second, almost normal. So, we did the IV CA EDTA as a test to get around the absorption issues in the gut. This put me high in the elements I mentioned above.

I don't have Parkinson's tremors... just a shakiness when the muscles are activated. Nothing at rest.

Got 3 more IV CA EDTA treatments to go and then I'll dig into this more.

Thanks!
CT

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chronic Triathlete
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Abxnomore... The IV I get has a whole slew of vitamins in it. Mostly the Bs and C.

LLMD also gave me homeopathic tinctures for liver support and something for the kidneys too.

Did you get any help from the Chelation? How many treatments did you get?

Thanks!
CT

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Abxnomore
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Good it sounds like you are getting a good IV drip and all bases covered.

I successfully removed my metals so yes I received improvement. I think I did at least 35 chelation infusions.

A DMSA challenge is when you take DMSA pills prior to testing via urine. It varies between a 6 hour collection and a 24 hour one depending on the doctor and the theory being that the DMSA will pull metals out of the body and will be deposited in the urine collection.

If the amounts are above and beyond what is considered "normal" then it is determined that you have heavy metal toxicity or accumulations.

If you did not have excess heavy metals in your system, the DMSA would not have been able to pull out any metals in any significant amounts.

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jlp38
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My doc puts magnesium in the IV along with the vitamins. He first does an IV push of EDTA and then a second IV push with mag, C and B's.

Abxnomore -- you did 35 treatments? At what point did you start to feel an effect from the chelation? My doc recommended a similar plan, 30 IV's (one per week). We got about 7 weeks in and he said he thought we would have seen some improvement by now. My main symptoms are arthritis and he was expected at least a little improvement in that time. We switched to vit C IV's for the last two weeks, but I'm not sure if maybe I just needed more time with the EDTA to get any results.

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Chronic Triathlete
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abxnomore... I did the oral DMSA challenge 6 hr collection twice. The first time I was way high, the second only slightly elevated. We then did a 6 hr collection after an IV of CA EDTA as a tie breaker. It was closer to the first test (but not as high).

everyone... I'm sitting in my LLMD's office now getting the 3rd IV (iPad!). They cut my dose in half this time due to the shaking. The leading theory being that the full bag was sucking out too much too fast. Will reevaluate after we see how it goes this week.

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chronic Triathlete
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everyone... For the record, here's what's in my Chelation IV.

Saline
CA EDTA
Vitamin C
Vitamin B-Complex
Vitamin B1
Vitamin B2
Vitamin B5
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Potassium
Magnesium
Taurine
Glutathione

I'm also now taking a multi-mineral homeopathic tincture with a whole collection of things to replace all the important stuff the chelation sucks out.

--------------------
10.24.07 Sick
03.31.08 Diagnosed IGeneX WB with Bb
04.08.09 Fry Bart

Updated 02.06.10 On an ABX break since July 09, gluten-free, lots of exercise.

My blog: http://www.chronictriathlete.com/wordpress

Posts: 199 | From Brooklyn, NY | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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