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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » I am told to avoid yeast, among other things!! What to avoid?

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Author Topic: I am told to avoid yeast, among other things!! What to avoid?
richedie
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I was told to avoid Baker's yeast and Brewer's yeast! Not to mention wheat, dairy, most beans, eggs, mustard, garlic, tomatoes and a few other things.

Would this include sauces containing vinegar or any herbal tincture that contains alcohol? I do not know a lot about the yeast in these products so I thought I would pose the question.

It makes it really tough to eat out. If I order chicken or steak, it needs to be dry. Nit my idea of eating pleasure.

[ 04-19-2011, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: richedie ]

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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lpkayak
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i was overwhelmed at first when told to go on yeast free diet

the llmd told me-to start with the big 7:

beer and wine
mushrooms
yeast (if you see it on ingredient list)
cheese
vinegar
peanuts
SUGAR-it has many names-and is hidden in everything...

there are yeast free cookbooks and how to books out there when you get it together enough to do that

but an easy way to start is to stop the big 7

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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richedie
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How do I know if I am avoiding? I mean I eat things that have hidden sugar. I just had some soy milk that has some sugar but I thik it is fruit juice sweetened.

I am going out to dinner with a friend and it sounds like I have to eat dry chicken and veggies, YUK!

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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Lymetoo
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Since going gluten free I've gotten very used to "dry" chicken and steaks. You will end up enjoying the taste once you get used to it!

Just think.. you get to taste the meat, not the sauce!! [Cool]

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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richedie
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Meat is nasty, I only like meat with something masking the teast, lOL!

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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richedie
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Meat is nasty, I only like meat with something masking the taste, lOL!

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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Lymetoo
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[lol] I hear ya! I was trying to psyche you out so you'd like this situation!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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richedie
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Maybe I will get a steak when I go out as that is easier for me without sauce. I think even A1 Steak Sauce has yeast(Vinegar)

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
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You could go to a health food store and find a sauce that is yeast free.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by richedie:
Maybe I will get a steak when I go out as that is easier for me without sauce. I think even A1 Steak Sauce has yeast(Vinegar)

I can't help but laugh at this comment. Are you the same richedie that's been "educating" us about the virtues of eating a vegetarian diet???? [bonk]

If you're gonna go out and eat a restaurant steak, you can be sure it's not grass fed and full of parasites, worms, monsters, devils and all that other good stuff. Mmmmm, so tasty! [Big Grin]

Gary

P.S. (JK)

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Karensky
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no sugar...does that mean all types of sugar ie stevia and maple

syrup and agave etc and all fruits too ?

--------------------
"Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero

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desertwind
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I have been yeast free for close to 7 years now. I have a yeast allergy.

You do get use to it. WHen I go out to eat I only go to places that will accomadate my food allergies.

It is not really that hard if you eat clean and cook for yourself.

At this point I pretty much avoid anything that is not fresh from the earth and make all of my own dressings and sauces.

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richedie
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I know I advocate a vegetarian diet and that is how I normally eat. However I mentioned that withh allthe things I need to avoid and also while trying to avoid the items off Dr. B's "no Eat" list, it is just too tough right now.

I also mentioned that I am not a strict vegetarian, I eat it once in a while. A friend is coming in from out of town and we are going out to eat. What to do! LOL.

Maybe chicken would be bestter. Wish we could find a Whole Foods market or something like that.

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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MariaA
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Hi! stevia is not a sugar, xylitol is not a sugar, "lo han guo" herb is not a sugar, glycerine is not a sygar, but almost everything else natural is (ie maple syrup, agave syrup, and honey are all fructose, which causes candida and other problems. There's not a huge difference between white sugar and other sweet sugars in terms of contributing to yeast problems.

I have a set of recipes archived in one place at lymefriends.com for this sort of diet, another good resources (where I got a lot of my ideas) is wholeapproachforums.com (although the moderators are REALLY strict about many foods in ways that aren't necessary for absolutely everyone to follow).

I think it's helpful to 'wean down' from a standard diet to a strict no-sugar and low-carb diet, but it really, really helps some people with Lyme and candida.

Sugar and other simple carbohydrates (ie wheat flour, white rice, potatoes, etc) seem to sometimes cause health problems for some of us because they impact the adrenal system if your adrenals aren't working right- the adrenals affect blood sugar regulation, and if you're having a lot of foods that spike the blood sugar, it can cause all kinds of strange problems that look like Lyme symptoms. Some of the adrenal fatigue books such as Dr W's book Adrenal Fatigue seem to have a good explanation for why that happens. I think that guy has a website that talks about some of the points in his book, as well. Anyway, many lyme patients have improved after removing sugar from their diet.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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lpkayak
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maria-is agave really bad? i was told it was one of the better sweetners

what about sucranat...it has the stalk groound up with it for fiber and doesn't make me spike

i use very little---usually 1/4 of what is called for in c recipe---but i think it is better than eating processed stuff

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Karensky:
no sugar...does that mean all types of sugar ie stevia and maple

syrup and agave etc and all fruits too ?

-
That is the way to go if you want to avoid yeast. Granny Smith apples are OK.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Karensky
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Thanks Lymetoo...that was my next question...what fruits are OK ?!

I art tested positive for papaya and I also read kiwis were

safe...what say you?...The papaya because of the enzymes probably

...yes avoiding yeast ...definately what I need to do... [kiss]

--------------------
"Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero

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MariaA
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Most fruit have enough sugar to be a cause for concern IF you're being strict with an anti-candida diet.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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Karensky
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Just checked Wikipedia on stevia...Xylitol , lo han guo and glycerin

from what I read I would stay away from glycerin and xylitol but use

stevia and lo hon guo only when sweetening is absolutely

unavoidable...

back to fruits...what about grapefruit , lemons and limes...all good

cleansers...they are OK no ?!

--------------------
"Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Karensky:

back to fruits...what about grapefruit , lemons and limes...all good

-
Those are fine! (papaya and kiwis are up to you and your battle with Candida .. if you have one)

There's a list of OK and not-OK foods here:

Candida diet and elimination:
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/021412.html

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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gwb
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quote:
Originally posted by richedie:
I know I advocate a vegetarian diet and that is how I normally eat. However I mentioned that withh allthe things I need to avoid and also while trying to avoid the items off Dr. B's "no Eat" list, it is just too tough right now.

I also mentioned that I am not a strict vegetarian, I eat it once in a while. A friend is coming in from out of town and we are going out to eat. What to do! LOL.

Maybe chicken would be bestter. Wish we could find a Whole Foods market or something like that.

Yeah, Whole Foods or Trader Joe's is a good store to have around. We have neither one in our city, but this Fall we'll finally have a Whole Foods store here. I can't wait!

I've emailed them for years begging them to come here, as I'm sure many other people here have too. Finally last year they found some land in the "well to do" part of town and will be opening a store here. We'll finally be able to get some real fish that isn't farm raised and all kinds of great organic foods.

Unfortunately, we won't be able to shop there as much as we'd like since we aren't loaded with dough. But it's gonna be nice to have some better quality food options here soon!

Gary

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MariaA
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Hint on Whole Foods (aka Whole Paycheck)- shop the sales/specials. only. They do sell stuff that's semi-reasonably priced once in a while, you just have to have discipline about only buying the more affordable stuff, and of course it helps if you're healthy enough to be able to get there semi-regularly to take advantage of specials.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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richedie
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Looks like we are going to HomeGrown Cafe in Delaware, better choice.

The yeast thing is confusing. Some say no carbs, some say puffed cereal, brown rice pasta, is OK.

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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MariaA
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It's not a 'no-carbs' (it's not really possible to do that, vegetables are full of complex carbs), it's just that lowering the amount of stuff in your diet that can either raise your blood sugar or possibly feed candida overgrowth in your intestines is a good idea. The reason why they say that some brown rice is OK is that it's a slightly lower-glycemic-index food than, say, white flour, but it's all relative. When I was really sick I definitely was sensitive to rice- if I had too much or too often it brought on some of my shaky 'adrenal' or blood sugar related (I think) symptoms.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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richedie
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I don't know what to think, I can't find any connection with food and my pain and symptoms. I will just do my best to eat healthy but not drive myself crazy. I am starting to assume I will always have pain and will have to live on pain meds!

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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Karensky
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LOLOL re Whole Foods...Whole paycheck !

No kidding !

I was ART tested for papaya...was a positive for me...do I assume

then that this means my yeast issues are less severe ? I know I

have yeast issues...I have had mixed results with the ART so I am

not so sure it is wise to believe 100 % what results one gets...

hence the question on papaya... [Smile] Won't hurt to give it up and see

I guess...richedie...I think following Dr. B's guidelines as closely

as possible and eliminating for 3 weeks or more a specific

category of food...ie...gluten...then add it back in to see what

response you have would be beneficial to learn what sensitivities

your body has...with yeast issues one is very limited but as you

treat it and rid your body of it you may be able to expand your

diet again to include some less offensive foods...yeah...don't

beat yourself up over a strict dietary regime...just do the best

you can and don't stress over it...your body will let you know

what to do !

--------------------
"Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues , but the parent of all others "....Cicero

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RubyJ
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quote:
Originally posted by MariaA:
Hi! stevia is not a sugar, xylitol is not a sugar, "lo han guo" herb is not a sugar, glycerine is not a sygar, but almost everything else natural is (ie maple syrup, agave syrup, and honey are all fructose, which causes candida and other problems. There's not a huge difference between white sugar and other sweet sugars in terms of contributing to yeast problems.

I have a set of recipes archived in one place at lymefriends.com for this sort of diet, another good resources (where I got a lot of my ideas) is wholeapproachforums.com (although the moderators are REALLY strict about many foods in ways that aren't necessary for absolutely everyone to follow).

I think it's helpful to 'wean down' from a standard diet to a strict no-sugar and low-carb diet, but it really, really helps some people with Lyme and candida.

Sugar and other simple carbohydrates (ie wheat flour, white rice, potatoes, etc) seem to sometimes cause health problems for some of us because they impact the adrenal system if your adrenals aren't working right- the adrenals affect blood sugar regulation, and if you're having a lot of foods that spike the blood sugar, it can cause all kinds of strange problems that look like Lyme symptoms. Some of the adrenal fatigue books such as Dr W's book Adrenal Fatigue seem to have a good explanation for why that happens. I think that guy has a website that talks about some of the points in his book, as well. Anyway, many lyme patients have improved after removing sugar from their diet.

Well said, Maria!

Xylitol, erythritol, maltitol, etc. are not sugar. They are sugar alcohols. Most people have severe gastrointestinal problems with maltitol, it is in many sugar-free candies. Xylitol is used in toothpaste and gum because it is good for dental health. It has a "cooling" minty quality. I use some erythritol in combination with Splenda in some recipes (I know, I know, Splenda is an artificial sweetner, but I'm allergic to stevia).

Agave syrup has been touted as healthy, but it is high fructose syrup, just like high fructose corn syrup, except from the agave plant. Fructose is low glycemic because it doesn't raise blood sugar much, however it heads straight for the liver and causes a lot of problems. (That's the simple version, I don't have the energy to go into detail right now)

Everyone is different, but I feel better when I eat animal protein, low starch vegetables, and good fats.

--------------------
"To eat is a necessity, but to eat intelligently is an art" - LaRochefoucauld

Lyme neuro symptoms for 20+ years.
Infected in Maryland.
Diagnosed with Lyme Jan 2011. (previously diagnosed with CFS, Fibro, peripheral neuropathy)

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richedie
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Would this include sauces containing vinegar or any herbal tincture that contains alcohol? I do not know a lot about the yeast in these products so I thought I would pose the question.

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by RubyJ:

Xylitol, erythritol, maltitol, etc. are not sugar. They are sugar alcohols. Most people have severe gastrointestinal problems with maltitol, it is in many sugar-free candies. Xylitol is used in toothpaste and gum because it is good for dental health. It has a "cooling" minty quality. I use some erythritol in combination with Splenda in some recipes (I know, I know, Splenda is an artificial sweetner, but I'm allergic to stevia).

Agave syrup has been touted as healthy, but it is high fructose syrup, just like high fructose corn syrup, except from the agave plant. Fructose is low glycemic because it doesn't raise blood sugar much, however it heads straight for the liver and causes a lot of problems.

-
I hate to break it to everyone, but sugar alcohols DO GROW YEAST! I found out the hard way. And agave would certainly do the same.

(xylitol in toothpaste is fine)

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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richedie
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Lymetoo, so it sounds like a good idea to also avoid herbal tinctures that contain alcohol.

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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momlyme
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That's why I like the Beyond Balance tinctures.
They are in a vegetable glycerin base.
http://www.beyondbalanceinc.com

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

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richedie
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quote:
Originally posted by momlyme:
That's why I like the Beyond Balance tinctures.
They are in a vegetable glycerin base.
http://www.beyondbalanceinc.com

I need to know what is in the tinctures. What is in the Prota-Z product? I can;t order those myself. I need a doctor to do it. [Frown]

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by richedie:
Lymetoo, so it sounds like a good idea to also avoid herbal tinctures that contain alcohol.

-
I guess so. I don't know much about alcohol. I don't use any herbal tinctures.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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momlyme
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Richie - you can do the saliva test and then they will tell you what you need to be taking.

The test is from $160 to $230, depending on the level of testing you choose.

My son's LLMD did the saliva testing with them and has gotten off abx using these tinctures.

Call the office, they will send you info in the mail. I tried the online form and got no reply.
Call Toll-free: 1-800-332-7713

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

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MariaA
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I wouldn't worry about the alcohol in tinctures- you're using a really tiny amount over the course of a day.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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richedie
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quote:
Originally posted by MariaA:
I wouldn't worry about the alcohol in tinctures- you're using a really tiny amount over the course of a day.

What about the yeast if you have a yeast sensitivity - I came back as having an active sensitivity to brewer's yeast and baker's yeast. Is that the same as used in vinegar and alcohol?

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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richedie
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quote:
Originally posted by momlyme:
Richie - you can do the saliva test and then they will tell you what you need to be taking.

The test is from $160 to $230, depending on the level of testing you choose.

My son's LLMD did the saliva testing with them and has gotten off abx using these tinctures.

Call the office, they will send you info in the mail. I tried the online form and got no reply.
Call Toll-free: 1-800-332-7713

So can I do the test and then take the herbs without seeing my doctor? I can't afford both. It's one or the other!

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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richedie
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Due to my ImmunoLabs results, I was told to avoid garlic, brewer's and baker's yeast, dairly, eggs, tomatoes, most beans, eggs, mustard, wheat, and a few others things...

Still do not feel any better after 3 weeks!

Should I continue on this diet?

--------------------
Mepron/Zith/Ceftin
Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse.
Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin.
Period of Levaquin and Ceftin.
Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin.
Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin.
Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw
Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia
Plaquenil/Biaxin

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shadesofpurple
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maybe the test was inaccurate??

I was tested for allergies a few years ago, It was one of tests where they poke your arm with like 50 tiny needles with different allergens He did a test and it came back POSITIVE allergic to EVERYTHING even the'placebo/fake' one... it voided the whole thing. The Dr said it was inconclusive and i was one of the few people that the test comes up inaccurate

I had to have blood tests, nothing came up positive with the blood tests. This was back before I was diagnosed with Lyme and was trying to figure out why I got so many headaches. I had a TON of tests...

I am a vegetarian and i have a very balanced diet. I KNOW this because I am diligent about tracking things, with two different web-sites, they each track different things.

You may want to try a trial & error based on how you react to a food. I have garlic frequently , and apple cider vinegar almost daily, I make my own salad dressings to avoid all the crap that is in store bought ones.

I know alot of people on here preach the low carb thing, but everyone is different.

I do not follow a low carb diet, but everyone is different.

Like I said I am a veg and I can't say I am 100% but I am pretty close... I ran a 5k on saturday, it was my second one in the past 6 months.

My diet is pretty clean, not much processed food, NO MEAT, my dairy is minimal... no milk,i drink almond milk , occasionally cheese.. I do eat nutrional yeast, which hasn't bothered me not sure if that is the same category of yeast or not, i eat it for the protein & the flavor. I do eat eggs as well.

I do treat for yeast with Olive Leaf & oil of oregano sometimes, just to be on the safe side. My supps include garlic and turmeric & B12 and large dose of vitamin D among other things.

Everyone is different...maybe you will just need to try an elimination diet as see ?? and sometimes it does just take some time. I also use sauna regularly. Keep at it, something will work for you, it is just a question of finding the right combination.

Chin up.
[Smile] [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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shadesofpurple
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I forgot I drink Pau d' Arco tea and other teas frequently I do think this helps too.

And I chew on Cardamom seeds that I buy from a local health food store. Occasionally I add cardamom powder to my tea, and sometimes cloves, There are a lot of herbs you can alternate and a sprinkle here & there I think helps with all kids of things, Search the threads and you will find quite a few, you can also google herbs and come up with quite a few, Hope this helps

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