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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Who Believes the Surviving Mold Author's Advice is for Real?

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Author Topic: Who Believes the Surviving Mold Author's Advice is for Real?
seekhelp
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I got his latest book today. I'm referring to the very famous mold expert in MD. The book was 750+ pages. I read some of it today and was stunned by the content in the book. This is new territory for me.

What I'm wondering is just how legit this guy really is? I'm considering getting some of his recommended lab work done.

What surprised me most is his distaste for Lyme-literate doctors and interjections in the book about overdiagnosing Lyme constantly and mold being the real issue. I believe some of the big shots here like Scott F are personal friends with this doc so I was surprised. He seems more educated than all the rest. He even makes a comment about Igenex kind of stating they find all kinds of positives!

He strongly, strongly promotes the ESRI mold testing for buildings/homes as well. Anyone have real experience with this test? Is it worth $250-$300? Apparently, it's a DNA panel for molds using vacuumed dust from your home. It looks for 36 mold types, 26 being dangerous types. Is this test even recognized by any other real authorities or is this the 'Igenex' of mold testing? [Smile]

Does Dr. S charge reasonable consult fees if you're his patient? Anyone here see him and make huge strides with biotoxin removal techniques he recommends?

I'm particularly interesting in having my HLA testing done to see if this is an issue for me after 3+ years of being ill. From the effects of mold stated in the book, this could very well be an issue for me my previous physicians grossly missed.

I guess the bottom line is if he's legit or another 'quack' in the world of alternative medicine? I'm very skeptical now after spending a lot of $$$$ and getting little relief. I think we need to be. Any thoughts?

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FYRECRACKER
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yea my question is is this guy just trying to promote something that will benefit his gain?

it's all about the money these days it seems like.

--------------------
www.mylymechronicle.wordpress.com

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Lauralyme
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seek can you post that website for the mold testing in the home?

--------------------
Fall down seven times, get up eight
~Japanese proverb

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AlanaSuzanne
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Wow. I don't even know where to begin. Are you both referring to Dr.S?

HLA testing is pretty mainstream nowadays in lymeworld.

From what I've read, you will not get well if you live in an environment where mold grows.

ScottF, so he's a bigshot eh? Who are you referring to when you say "He seems more educated than all the rest. He even makes a comment about Igenex kind of stating they find all kinds of positives" "Kind of?" Who said that?

And Igenex finding positives compared to what? Quest?

Raise your hand if you've had a +41 band from Quest for umpteen years (OK, put your hands down now--I can't process more than 20,000 at once for heaven's sake)

I did not read the book and therefore cannot comment on the supposed distaste of LLMDs. What I can comment on is mold. Mold is a huge factor. If you have LD/cos and mold you will not get well until mold is remediated.

S has done extensive research on mold and illness. He's been around for a long time.

It would be a lot easier for guys like him to take on another less-controversial career.

Kudos to him and his ilk. They have the stomach for all this.

** edited to remove doctor's first initial **

[ 04-20-2011, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

--------------------
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.'

---Eleanor Roosevelt

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Tammy N.
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seek - we are on the same path, looking in the same direction. I'm seeing that this may possibly be a primary issue of mine.

Dr. K has spoken highly of Dr. S for quite some time (Dr. K's opinion matters to me.) When I saw Dr. K in NYC in Feb. he said everyone should read Dr. S's book and become aware of how important mold is. (He also mentioned something about how they haven't always gotten along, but he admired and respected his work. I didn't read into it much, but I liked feeling like he wasn't just promoting a friends' work just because it was a friend.)

Anyway, yes definitely get your house tested, and get the blood tests done. I am. I think this is a HUGE HUGE issue. Certainly worth investigating.

When I went to Dr. K's clinic last month in Seattle, the doc I saw, Dr. G, said she definitely wanted to check into this with me. When she saw my panoramic dental x-ray, she immediately said 'wow, your sinuses are heavily involved'. I had no idea because I can breathe just fine. Now I just had a nasal culture done checking for mold, fungi, bacteria and viruses; awaiting results. Because of this, we had a contractor friend come over and search our house high and low. Guess what? a puddle was in the back of the crawl space and mold is along the foundation. Apparently has been there for some time. Now we are doing house testing and will have to have remediation.

I hope momlyme weighs in. She's been researching this for a while and knows quite a bit.

Best to you,
Tammy

btw - the website is much less wordy than the book and lets you get a good understanding quicker. Same title as the book, just add .com

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djf2005
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Seek-

You asked a lot of questions.

I'll try to be concise.

Look at it this way:

Whatever one is exposed to the most, is what their biggest influence will be.

Consider Dr H in NY. He treats 1000's of "Lyme patients". It is what he does. His experience was he personally contracted "Lyme", and now treats it. He found "Lyme" to be the biggest causative factor as to why he was not feeling well, so it is his belief that it is a major piece of the puzzle when seeing patients w/ the symptom set we all know and share.

Now Dr. S on mold, well "mold" has been HIS experience. See? It's what HE was exposed to the most, therefore it is his belief that mold is he biggest causative factor when seeing patients with the "Lyme" symptom set.

Are either one "wrong" or "right"? NO.

Our experiences/influences make up who we are, what we believe, and what steps we will take to rectify a given situation.

Mold, Metals, Lyme, Toxins, Fungus, Genetic issues, Co-infections, Parasites, and the like are ALL the causative factors involved w/ most severely chronically ill people, whether they have a "Lyme" diagnosis or not.

It would be prudent, and should be the status quo, for everyone here to look into ALL the aforementioned possible issues, and to deal w/ them in sequence or if possible all at once.

By addressing pretty much everything that "could" be wrong, IMO, one will have the best shot at recovery.

So, Dr.S is right. Dr H is right.

All the experts in this "Lyme world" have something important to say. None of them is 100% right. By combining the knowledge coming from all of them, one can certainly get well, or, get a whole lot better.

Best.

Derek

** edited to remove doctor's first initial **

[ 04-20-2011, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

[email protected]

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seekhelp
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AlanzSuzanne, yes I'm referring to Dr. S. Well, I refer to Scott F as a bigshot because he has his own website, rubs elbows personally and interviews the docs most here dream of seeing like Dr K, the mold doc I'm talking about and other big names through interviews and has tried every treatment known!

In the book, Dr S. says he does not use Igenex for Lyme testing. He makes many comments that Lyme was a 'misdiagnosis' for many people. That is where I got my info.

Very good points as always Derek. I do agree. What you treat is what you'll see, but this only applies if have super educated patients who know their Dx ahead of time, right? if your chronically ill and not sure why, it could be TBIs as well as mold as well as metals, etc. Sometimes it's about 'seeing' what you want to see. Dr S. does not like clinical diagnoses at all based on his comments.

Good to hear that Dr K likes his work. For some reason, I'd guess Dr. S. doesn't like his muscle testing. lol. Just guessing though.

Tammy, I think the book adds a lot of value over the website though. Both are informative.

** edited to remove first initial **

[ 04-20-2011, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

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momlyme
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My son was at camp just before he got sick. In order to go to this camp, he had to have a TDAP booster shot. When he got home from 2 weeks of camp he got what I first thought was the flu.

When I found some bloody clothes in his suitcase, he told me he was having nosebleeds at night that were turning on like faucets. He didn't want to have to come home so he didn't tell anyone. He stashed the 'evidence' in his suitcase.

I blamed the nosebleeds on the booster shot or maybe 'dry air.' Then when he got diagnosed with LD... I asked his LLMD if nosebleeds could be connected.

The answer I got was no. I put the nosebleeds out of my head for a while. We had bigger fish to fry. He has lyme, bartonella, babesia, myco. Pneu., strep, mercury, lead, cadmium....

My son has been very sick since then last June, but no more nosebleeds.

A few months ago, my 9 year old daughter started having nosebleeds that turned on like faucets. She did not even know they were started and dripping grossly. I was freaking out because this is how my son's sickness started. Except she has none of the Lyme or coinfection symptoms... NONE. So this cannot be Lyme disease... could it?

I got her in to see my son's LLMD. She diagnosed sinus infection and gave her antibiotics for the sinus infection. She was better within days.

Abx stopped. Nosebleeds started.

Back to the doctor for yet another abx.

4 sinus infections this year led me to lots of questions about what is causing so many sinus infections.

My husband and I have had some illnesses too. With me it's brain fog, and GI issues, some arthritis. With him it is chest pain that we have gone to the ER for a couple of times, no sign of a heart attack.

So I started looking at other causes for our whole family being sick to some degree. I bought "Surviving Mold" in February or March of this year. I was looking for the book "Mold Warriors" and found the new book Dr. S. had just released.

I read "Surviving Mold" and right around page 84 I started calling my son's LLMD and telling her we need to look into this as a factor. She didn't know much about mold. So I sent her the book.

Even though I don't have the book with me, if you own the book, I am almost positive that page 84 is talking about nosebleeds.

Mold can cause many of the same symptoms that LD and co infections can.

The HLA DR testing is very interesting I have decoded 4 people who had the testing done on this site and all of them had some sensitivity to mold.

I don't believe the people who stay sick can be tunnel visioned about what is making them sick. We have to look at all of the factors coming together for the perfect storm.

Toxins or biotoxins, fungi, poisons, bacteria and viruses depend on each other to suppress the immune system... and take over. The toxic soup is different for each of us.

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

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TerryK
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Dr. S's work is not just about mold toxins. One may also have issues with other biotoxins including borrelia toxins.

My LLMD started me on biotoxin treatment before I started abx. According to my LLMD, I didn't need the testing because it seemed clear that biotoxins were an issue for me.

My experience was that I could not tolerate antibiotocs for most of my life. Makes sense because I've had lyme disease since age 5. I didn't think I would be able to tolerate abx for lyme treatment but actos and cholestyramine allowed me to tolerate treatment.

Several years after I started lyme treatment (I had been on biotoxin treatment the whole time) I consulted with my sister's doctor and he ran the HLA test. I was positive for mold, borrelia and spider bite genetic issues.

In between there another doctor tested me for MSH and leptin both of which came out very abnormal. I tested myself with the VCS test prior to lyme treatment and it was negative, 2 years into treatment it was positive. I think I was having trouble getting rid of the toxins even with biotoxin treatment because my pathogen burden was very high and so was my biotoxin burden.

I can't find anyone near me who understands how to treat via Dr. S. My sister's doctor is 200 miles away but like so many other doctors only paartially treats and doesn't understand all the issues enough to actually get some of the hormones back to where they belong.

Based on my own experience and research I believe that this is a piece of the puzzle for some of us. If this is an issue I believe that it must be dealt with before one can have significant improvement.

The mold/borrelia toxin issue is one piece of the puzzle but so are methylation, KPU and other types of porphyria, heavy metals etc.. Any one of these issues left untreated are likely to hold up progress in susceptible individuals.

BTW- one big problem is that many LLMD's and other doctors don't give actos with cholestyramine and thus many lyme patients cannot tolerate cholestyramine. Actos downregulates some of the cytokines that seem to be an issue while on cholestyramine.

I recall a number of years ago that Dr. S. had a falling out with ILADS and is not a member there any longer.

Terry
I'm not a doctor

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momlyme
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Terry - I haven't heard of Actos and I just started on cholestyramine today... do you have any links to good info on Actos? How does it work with the cholestyramine?

My LLMD also has me starting NDF Plus and Liver Life from http://www.bioraynaturaldetox.com

--------------------
May health be with you!

Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began.

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Lymetoo
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momlyme.. I think Actos affects the tumor necrosis factor. It's supposed to decrease the side effects of the CSM. It killed my stomach and I had to stop it after 2 doses.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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TerryK
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Actos is part of Dr. S's protocol. I've read mold warriors and I know he talks about it in there.

I had this in one of my research files. This site apparently no longer exists but it was one of Dr. S's sites.

-----------------------------------------------

http://www.biotoxin.info/treatment
Begin cholestyramine (CSM) or Questran treatment. We have found that CSM powder works best. Many patients experience an intensification of all or some symptoms with CSM therapy. If Lyme disease is diagnosed, treatment with Actos is considered, since the mobilization of the Lyme biotoxin is especially hard to endure for many patients.

Actos helps to prevent the cytokine storm and prevent TNF and MMP9 from increasing. Actos is not risk free, so with this, or any other information on this website, please consult your care provider.

-------------------------------------------------

Check his new book for info on actos. Unfortunately I don't have the new book yet. Hopefully it is easier to use as a reference book than his older book "Mold Warriors".

Terry

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TerryK
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tutu- what killed your stomach - cholestyramine or actos?? Personally I can't take cholestyramine without actos because my stomach hurts too much.

Yes Actos affects TNF and also MMP-9. It may also help with leptin resistance (another dysregulated hormone with biotoxin exposure). According to Mold Warrior it can be used as a genetic treatment of sorts.

Terry

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Lymetoo
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BOTH!!! I hated them both! If I remember right, I took Actos for 4 days before beginning the CSM (only made it thru 2 days).

I felt better for 10 days, then NOTHING but stomach distress. It was awful. I think I took the CSM for 2 months.

-- by the way, I've seen ads on TV about damage from Actos. It was an ad for class action suits.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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TerryK
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tutu wrote:
I've seen ads on TV about damage from Actos. It was an ad for class action suits.

Haven't seen those ads but as mentioned before, Actos (like all other pharmaceuticals) is not without risk.

That said, for those who can't get rid of biotoxins on thier own it may be less risky than letting biotoxins float around your system causing all kinds of problems. I've been looking for a substitute for actos but so far haven't found anything too promising.

Terry

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TerryK
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From what I can tell, just because you test HLA susceptible doesn't mean you can't get rid ANY of the toxins. There are likely varying degrees of difficulty such that some people have moderate difficulty and others have major difficulty.

Terry

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skies
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I am trying to learn about all this stuff as well... apparently my LLMD just went to some sort of seminar by Dr. S to learn about mold. I noticed the Surviving Mold book in the waiting room when I had my appointment last week.

My doctor is now asking me to get the MSH test.. Unfortunately, it seems like Labcorp is the only facility around here that offers it.. and of course, my insurance won't cover it. They only cover tests through Quest, and I guess Quest doesn't offer MSH.

I'm trying to figure out if it would be worth it to take this test or not. I'm going broke as it is paying for treatment. It's all getting to be too much for us to afford.

Can anyone tell me exactly what the MSH test shows?

--------------------
"The simple things can get you through the hardest times."  -

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Tammy N.
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I contacted survivingmold.com and asked them what tests were most important for initial diagnosis. This was their reply:

***It is extremely important to get the tests done at the labs specified on the orders. Those labs perform the tests according to the information needed for Dr. Ss protocol. It is a very tedious process.

The most important tests to have done initially for diagnostic purposes are: HLA DR, VIP, MSH, ACTH/Cortisol, TGF B-1, C4a, C3a, ADH/Osmolality, and MMP9
_________

I then checked this against their Physician Ordering Sheet (http://www.survivingmold.com/docs/Physician%20Order%20Sheet_4_13_2011.pdf) and it broke down as follows (I've included test codes #s):

Lab Corp
HLA DR by PCR (012542)
VIP (010397)
MSH (010421)
ACTH (004440)

Quest
ADH (252X)
Osmolality (677X)
Cortisol (367X)
TGF-B1 (99895) ***Update - Quest was unable to do this one, had to go back to Labcorp***
MMP-9 (41865) ***Update - Quest was unable to do this one, had to go back to Labcorp***

C3a and C4a can be from either Quest or Labcorp.

For me, my insurance does not cover Labcorp, but I do have out of network benefits, so hopefully I will get some money back. I don't mind the cost for this initial testing, but what worries me is that apparently there is a lot of re-testing as you go thru treatment, so this out-of-pocket expense is likely to really add up.

There must be a pony in here somewhere.... (at least that's what I keep telling myself:)

Best to all,
Tammy

***edited name of doctor***

[ 04-21-2011, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Tammy N. ]

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chaps
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LLMDs give you a barrage of abx and most of them don't mention mold, mercury, parasites, die-off detox or gut issues, except they give you Diflucan for candida and watch for C-diff.

Doctors who give chelation IVs say that you've got to get rid of the mercury or you'll never recover from Lyme.

Doctors who treat gut problems say that unless you fix the gut, you'll never recover from Lyme.

Doctors who treat mold say unless you get rid of your mold problems, you'll never recover from Lyme.

Primary care physicians think you shouldn't worry so much about Lyme and instead treat the accompanying viruses with Valcyte to the tune of $2,300.00 a month.

Anyone see a pattern here?

Everyone is unique and needs to figure out his/her own core issues. If a person can do that and successfully conquer their one or two core issues and get the immune system working well again, then the immune system will take care of the rest of the stuff. That's my opinion.

So the question is, is mold, by itself, enough to dismantle a healthy person's immune system? Or is it just one of these opportunistic "along for the ride" issues, like Epstein-Barr?

Maybe due to genetics, mold might be a core issue for some people, capable of keeping them sick even when all other issues are cleared. But I don't think it is for most people.

Something to consider: From all of the people that I've talked to, there are quite a few who have achieved remission from Lyme without addressing mold.

There are very few who got better without addressing mercury.

--------------------
-chaps
Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!

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GiGi
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"Doctors who give chelation IVs say that you've got to get rid of the mercury or you'll never recover from Lyme.

Doctors who treat gut problems say that unless you fix the gut, you'll never recover from Lyme.

Doctors who treat mold say unless you get rid of your mold problems, you'll never recover from Lyme"

I agree one hundred percent with these comments.
Most people who have succumbed to Lyme have these issues underlying their chronic problems. It's a matter of finding the problems. As far as I am concerned, if you can't get well after after months of abx, years of the same will hardly ever get you ahead. That is the nature of the beast. Abx may kill a few early on, but it does not pick and choose and kills a lot more in the long run.
Even Dr. B. himself had to fight cancer.

The gut problems include the parasites - I assume. If you haven't addressed them, the chances of getting well are close to nil.

Blessed be those who can achieve permanent remission, i.e. total wellness. Mercury creates fungi and supports mold in the body. Do some more research. Dr. K. has talked about it for a couple of decades. I haven't always listened, but I am listening now. Mold has become much more of a recent issue than it was some years ago. Take a look at our atmosphere and our weather. Times are changing and we are going to have to pay more attention to what we are digging out of the ground. Because it eventually reaches all of us and not in a healing way. Insect sprays just won't do it any more. When was the last time you didn't see a chemtrail?

Hope all find their own culprits. The majority of patients I have come to know have to deal with
these issues. If you can't get well the abx way, keep searching.

Take care.

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sparkle7
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re: When was the last time you didn't see a chemtrail?

Good observation!

There is some controvercy about this mold & biotoxin issue. I did a whole research thread here about it probably 5 months ago or more. I don't know the answer.

I think we are being bombarded with too many different pathogens. It's the combined effect that is so devistating. The drugs probably just add to it. Abx are essentially mold - pharmaceutically grown mold.

We do all this self remediation but we are being bombarded with toxic stuff all of the time. It's tricky.

I don't think this Dr. S. is an MD but I might be mistaken. I think he's a PhD... I've read mixed things about him. He may have some good ideas but I'm not really into his whole approach.

Makes sense to get away from bad moldy situations but you have to consider people have been living around mold for centuries. Blue cheese anyone?

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sk8ter
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Class action lawsuit on Actos causing a significant rise in heart attacks by users.
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sparkle7
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There was a lady here who used to post. She had found mold in her house. I believe she found a way to seal up the mold by cleaning it up or sealing it off somehow. I think it was in her basement or she had a flood in her home. Then, she got an ozone machine & blasted her whole house with ozone.

I think it really worked out well for her.

After doing extensive research on this biotoxin issue - I decided it wasn't worthwhile to pursue Dr. S's stlye of therapy/remediation. I didn't see that there were enough studies to confirm that it really helped. All of the studies proving that it worked originated from the same source - Dr. S.

That's not a good sign to me. I like seeing confirmations from different sources - cross references...

You may want to see if you can find my old thread about it.

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TerryK
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spark wrote:
I don't think this Dr. S. is an MD but I might be mistaken. I think he's a PhD...

http://www.chronicneurotoxins.com/info/meetus.cfm
He is an M.D.

spark wrote:
Makes sense to get away from bad moldy situations but you have to consider people have been living around mold for centuries

Not sure what difference that makes. Mold was no doubt still making a certain segment of the population sick whether they knew it was the mold making them sick or not.


Spark - I tried to respond to a PM you sent but your mailbox was full and you did not respond when I posted on lymenet to let you know.

Terry

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sparkle7
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Thanks Terry. I'll look at my mailbox. I don't look at Lymenet all the time.

-

re: Not sure what difference that makes. Mold was no doubt still making a certain segment of the population sick whether they knew it was the mold making them sick or not.

-

Then how can you tell what made people ill in the past or if it was mold related? That would be a huge study project. I don't know if it's been done.

Abx are made from mold. People have been eating cheese with mold, mushrooms, bread, drinking beer, wine - fungi, yeast & molds. I think there's something else involved in addition to the mold exposure that's maing people overly sensitized. What? I don't know.

After days of research that I posted on that thread - I wasn't convinced that this is the right way to go. Maybe I'll try to dig it up & repost it.

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sparkle7
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FYI -

article - Lyme neurotoxin detoxing is dangerous quackery

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/101245?

Controversy at it's finest (I say sarcastically...). [dizzy]

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365SunnyDays
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I was very focused on Lyme for a long time, and then I read alot and visited Dr. K's practice in Washington. I realize now that Lyme is just a piece of the puzzle, as are mold (aka fungus and yeast from antibiotics), heavy metals, and parasites.

I did not understand that just going after Lyme would be useless, until I lived it for 6 months and just kept ratcheting downward. Having been on heavy metal and parasite treatments for just over 2 weeks, I already feel a very subtle improvement. I'm only doing light treatment of Lyme at this time.

I think we cannot put ONE thing on the list and say we'll be better after we fix that. It's dozens of things, fixed slowly over time. Lyme and mold are both in there, along with a whole other soup of things. Sorting it all out and getting the right help to work on all the issues in the right order, that's the hard part. Finding the doctor or practitioner who can identify the priorities, that seems key.

--------------------
We really know so little about the body and the microbiome.

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Cass A
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Dear Friends,

Thanks for all the comments about mold, and your personal experiences!

Recently, when doing some cleaning in my house, I found some very hidden mold deposits and places there where mold could enter into the area between the ceiling and the roof. My husband and I worked to clean these up and seal them off.

We're now getting more educated about mold, finding it, and remediation.

It is truly part of the picture.

I find that taking LOTS of chlorella and other toxin binders, if possible about 20-30 minutes before each meal, is helping clear things up for me.

Best,

Cass A

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Cass A
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Ohh--one thing I forgot.

Apparently, there was a big change in building standards in the late 1970s. To conserve more energy, the air flows into and out of homes were decreased so that less fuel would be needed to either heat or cool them. Also, vapor barriers started to be used in walls (if installed on the wrong side, this causes condensation of water INSIDE the wall) and more insulation (fiberglass and cellulose) that are perfect media for mold.

Love,

Cass A

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Tammy N.
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Cass - be very careful when trying to correct mold issues yourself. I've spoken with about 8 remediation companies, and about 7 of them said DO NOT USE BLEACH. Like most people, this is the first thing I always thought SHOULD be used. Apparently not. Not only does the bleach cause toxic fumes (for lack of proper terms) when in touch with the mold, it also usually does not go deep enough to kill it. (One remediator explained it this way.... he said it's like mowing over a dandelion.)

Also, it's really important to have special sort of 'air containment' so as not to disperse the spores when cleaning up a problem area. Those tiny little spores go EVERYWHERE, and all it takes is a humid day to get them to multiply and start floating around spreading themselves everywhere.

If you had it in one area, you can bet they settled on the furniture, walls, carpets, etc. etc. It is recommended to Hepa vacuum everything thoroughly. Then I've heard to wash things down with ammonia and water (unless there is some other commercial solution you trust). Then vacuum again, then wash down again. All a cumbersome chore!!

Isn't this all crazy? This mold thing has me a bit overwhelmed. Just sharing what I've been learning....

Wishing you all the best (and me too! I need it:)
Tammy

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emla999/Lyme
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Seekhelp,

You might find the link down bellow to be interesting.

http://www.patsullivan.com/blog/2009/09/why-i-no-longer-recommend-dr-shoemaker.html


And after reading Dr. S's book, muck like you, I also come away with the feeling that he seems to think that chronic Lyme Disease is way over diagnosed and isn't the problem that LLMD's are claiming it to be. Dr. S seems to think that mold toxicity is much more of a problem.

I also agree with your statement, "What you treat is what you'll see". Dr. S treats mold so in his mind that's what he "sees" as being the cause of many health problems.

To be honest with you I am not quite sure what to make of Dr. S's findings. For years he has claimed that alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone (alpha MSH) was ALWAYS low in people with chronic fatigue syndrome but a recent study found just the opposite.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933583/


So, if Dr. S is wrong about alpha MSH then what else is he wrong about???


There are always two side sides to every story. It just seems like I never know which side to believe. According to the article down bellow, mold spores are "ubiquitous" and toxic mold doesn't usually cause health problems in most people ...... unless you are allergic or have a weakened immune system. So, if that article is correct, is something else weaken our immune systems and allowing toxic mold to be a problem. Maybe that something else, is Lyme disease or some other chronic infection. Or maybe some toxin such as mercury is weakening our immune system and thus allowing the mold to be more of a problem than it should be.

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~amandapr/sub2.html


As Sparkle pointed out, humans have been exposed to toxic mold for a long time. We are constantly being exposed to mold mycotoxins through our food....... grains often contain mycotoxins and mold spores. Cheeses, fruit, fruit juices, many vegetables, mushrooms and beer can ALL contain some toxic mold spores and mold mycotoxins.


.

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sparkle7
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If you go to Europe - people there live in old buildings & there is mold everywhere... even in the wine & cheese.

Maybe mold in the US is different due to the housing reasons that Cass mentioned?

Here's a mold cleaning product - http://www.propertyperfections.net/mold-removal-s/79.htm

I bought some but I didn't get a chance to use it because we moved.

I read vinegar is good, too. http://www.care2.com/greenliving/vinegar-kills-bacteria-mold-germs.html

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MichaelTampa
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Haven't yet read this book you refer to, I will get to it, but just not yet. Seen enough of this doc to believe he's serious and genuine and I believe much of his information is very good.

I'm sure nobody's perfect.

Dr. K.'s seminar had a mold expert there--not this guy, someone else--but Dr. K. also spoke very well of this guy. The guy at the seminar and Dr. K. even put back and forth some jabs about how much lyme is truly the cause versus mold.

Mold and lyme are both very serious issues. Surely some need to address both and others just one.

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lpkayak
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i'd like to know how many can actually do the tx

i couldn't

i would pass out the first day eating what he says is ok

a LL primary told me this based on a blood test...but i can't tell you what blood test

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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sparkle7
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re: he's serious and genuine and I believe much of his information is very good

---

I looked to cross-reference the studies & recommendations of Dr. S. Most of the work is based on mostly his own studies & references. I like to see stuff like this verified by other scientists that it actaully is valid. I couldn't find much. Not to say it's no good. It's just that it would be nice to see his theories verified by an outside source.

This type of treatment isn't based on belief or how serious or genuine he is. There has to be something more to it.

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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by sparkle7:
Abx are made from mold. People have been eating cheese with mold, mushrooms, bread, drinking beer, wine - fungi, yeast & molds. I think there's something else involved in addition to the mold exposure that's maing people overly sensitized. What? I don't know.

At the recent conference Dr. K. had, he stated that mold is much more of a problem for everybody these days than it has been in the past, and will continue to be worse and worse. He said this is so because the EMF's really make the molds much more active, generating much more of their toxins. Since our species seems hell-bent on using exponentially more wireless technology every second, this is a growing problem.
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emla999/Lyme
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quote:


At the recent conference Dr. K. had, he stated that mold is much more of a problem for everybody these days than it has been in the past, and will continue to be worse and worse. He said this is so because the EMF's really make the molds much more active, generating much more of their toxins.


I have heard this mentioned before and Dr. K's statement may be true but thus far I have never been able to find any studies on PubMed or anywhere else that have indicated that EMF's can make mold produce more mycotoxins.

Actually, according to the article down bellow, magnetic fields, may decrease the overall growth of mold/fungus.... at least it does on plants.

http://www.agr.hr/jcea/issues/jcea6-2/pdf/jcea62-10.pdf

Again, Dr. K's statement may be true but I have never been able to find any evidence to support this claim. If anyone knows of any studies that have been published regarding this then please let me know.

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MichaelTampa
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Dr. K. said he himself published a study of this kind. He said that someone else started the work, but did not seek to publish it as it was not showing what was desired, so Dr. K. says he picked it up and finished it. Sorry, I do not know how to find it for you, but this is what he said. The study involved exposing the petri dishes to varying levels of EMF's and coming back later and looking at it.

About a year and a half ago, back when I was researching Tourette's as that was my diagnosis at the time, I was listening to DVD's from a Tourette's conference and the study was referenced during that conference as well. It was the same one.

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sparkle7
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Interesting, MichaelTampa...

This was from Mercola -

http://emf.mercola.com/sites/emf/archive/2010/02/09/new-study-confirms-electrical-pollution-from-cell-phones-and-wifi-is-hazardous.aspx

excerpt-

Beware of mold: Mold, just like other microorganisms, can also react in high EMF environments. One study showed 600 times more neurotoxins generated from mold in a high EMF environment.

According to Rees, there are also mold legal cases being reviewed, questioning whether problems in buildings infested with mold may have actually been related to nearby antenna infrastructure.

---

There must be a study somewhere about it.

---

I still don't know if Dr. S has the answer to it, though. He & Amy Yasko do alot of specific testing but I don't know if their concepts really work in practice.

I think increasing bile production & health may be just as good as doing all the testing & specific drugs & supplements. I posted the bile article alot in regards to this issue.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james63.htm

excerpt-

Toxic substances(excess estrogens,. bacterial endotoxins, viral particles etc.) are broken down in the intestines into smaller non-toxic particles by bile acids. The bacterial endotoxins are among the most dangerous substances known.

Several endotoxins are capable of producing irreversible shock with bleeding disorders when they enter the bloodstream unless these bacteria are promptly killed by the correct antibiotic so they immediately cease supplying the blood with more endotoxins..

Bile salts split endotoxins into harmless particles[2] preventing them from reaching the blood stream.

---

May be something worth looking into but each situation is different with each unique person. I'm just not convinced that Dr. S is the answer. The mold thing is significant... I just don't know if these doctors have the answer.

This lady has some interesting theories -

http://www.moldmisery.com/

http://www.ingridnaiman.com/moldmisery/moldmisery_directory.html

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ping
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seek, no way is Lyme "over-diagnosed". However, I don't doubt that mold related issues are very under-diagnosed.

There are lots of people who knew about mold quite early on. Take a look at the website link I've attached. Everyone always has good and bad things to say about everyone else's protocols, tx's etc. Don't let one doc's opinion on Lyme color your judgement.

www.worldhealthmall.com

--------------------
ping
"We are more than containers for Lyme"

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emla999/Lyme
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This just reinforces my belief that Dr. S doesn't consider Lyme Disease to be all that big of a problem.

I received Dr. S's surviving mold newsletter today. And in his newsletter he states that, "many of our subscribers are Lyme patients. Many of those are affected by exposure to WDB and sickened by that exposure but they continue to think that Lyme is their problem. Sad, but true."

***WDB = water damaged building

So, it would seem as though Dr. S is stating that it is sad that some people think that their health problems are due to Lyme disease when in actuality they may be due to mold toxicity.

But maybe some people are infected with both. Plus a few other co-infections!!!

Dr. S also says.....

"So after I was permethrin-less and had another beautiful ECM rash from a tick bite last spring , it was time to visit the farm store. There in the horse chemical section was 10% permethrin, used by horse people all the time on their animals. Simply put one ounce of the stock solution into a 32-ounce misting container, fill with water and spray your clothes. Good bye ticks."

So apparently, Dr. S may have had Lyme Disease himself on more than one occasion because he stated that he got "another beautiful" ECM rash from a tick bite last spring.


.

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