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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » I'm confused by this information/PLEASE HELP!!

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Author Topic: I'm confused by this information/PLEASE HELP!!
resaz
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I saw my LLMD today and he had done a repeat of my Western Blot and also a PCR test. This is my 3rd WB. My first in Oct 2010 was positve Sonora Quest. My second March 2011 was positive by Igenix but CDC negative. My 3rd LabCorp was negative..for both IgM and IgG.
Still waiting on the PCR tests.
My Doctor believes that I no longer have Lyme and that I have the Biofilm. We drew blood for this test today.
I'm confused by the labs having different results? I'm confused by the no Lyme but a biofilm that is causing all of my residual symptoms. Don't get me wrong..I would LOVE for the Lyme to be gone.
I also have some vitamin deficiencies. D,all the B's, My DHEA is low and my estradiol is low. I wonder if any of these deficiencies can be causing my symptoms and am tempted to try supplements but my Dr feels that certain vitamins feed the biofilm and it's not good to feed the bug...
I am also taking herbs for Lyme. I was on antibiotics for a bit and they landed me in the hospital and my stomach and intestines have been wrecked since Oct. Do I keep taking the herbs if I don't have Lyme??? Will they hurt me?
Does anyone know about this Biofilm and where i can read about SYMPTOMS with it? I can find out a bit about it but feel very in the dark about it all.
anyone??
THANK YOU!!!

Posts: 44 | From Phoenix | Registered: Mar 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
chiquita incognita
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Resaz
What herbs are you taking?
Understanding that every persons' body is different, I will endeavor to answer this question as best as I can.

I too would be confused by the testing/biofilms in your situation....Can't answer that very clearly for you and will leave it ot others here.

Best wishes, CI

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resaz
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Right now I am taking
Uncaria, Smilax, Andrographis, and Prickly Ash
I am supposed to start a new tincture in a few days that I will be off and on.
I am also taking Carafate for my Stomach.

Posts: 44 | From Phoenix | Registered: Mar 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lululymemom
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Biofilm does not present with symptoms in itself but it poses a significant threat to the development of chronic Lyme disease.

http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Lyme-Disease/recs/4199-destroying-lyme-biofilm

When threatened, Lyme bacteria are able to create a protective covering to prevents from being killed off. This protective covering is called a biofilm. This biofilm enables the bacteria to seal themselves within a "plastic bag" when they are in danger. This biofilm protects the bacteria from antibiotics, anti-Lyme herbs, and antibodies that will kill it. In theory, the bacteria are believed to be able to lie dormant in their biofilm for months or even years.

When conditions are safe again, the bacteria can re-emerge and aggravate symptoms of pain, fatigue, and mental fog
As a result, some people end up struggling with a chronic Lyme Disease infection for years or decades. Many of these people seek the care of a Lyme literate physician. These people may end up receiving many different antibiotics over the course of several years. Antibiotics are believed to stimulate the Lyme bacteria to cover itself with a biofilm. When the bacteria re-emerges, symptoms can flare up enough to require hospitalization.

The best treatment for biofilm are enzymatic supplements such as Lumbrokinase, Serrapeptase, Nattokinase, or recently an ancient Ayurverdic herb called Terminalia Chebula to infiltrate the biofilm.

http://tribes.tribe.net/erbluv2refor/thread/586a59cd-7cba-48dd-b238-058fad4c9acf

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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lululymemom
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At the latest Bio Resources Conference, Dr. B. stated this about Biofilm:

Biofilms mature and harden. They are like "trying to burn through the trunk of a tree". Biofilm therapy may need to involve some amount of chelation work.

Samento+Banderol were found in studies with Eva Sapi PhD to be helpful in addressing biofilms

He also had this to say about minerals feeding biofilm, but I think this is speculation:

Minerals like calcium, iron, and magnesium may support/grow the biofilms

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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TerryK
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lulu did a great job of presenting info on biofilms.

Is your doctor an ILADS doctor? Doesn't sound like it. Perhaps they are new to treating lyme patients?

Different less capable labs like Quest will get different results. Antigenic variablility is why you get different results from the same lab with continued testing. Borrelia changes it outer surface protiens in order to evade the immune system. An LLMD would know this.

Terry
I'm not a doctor

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lpkayak
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Is your doctor an ILADS doctor? Doesn't sound like an LLMD.

I AGREE

testing really means very little...but i know a lot of the llmds and they don't talk like that

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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chiquita incognita
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Hi Resaz
In Traditional Chinese Medicine terms, andrographis has "cold" action on the liver. Basically this means it cools inflammation, slows down hyperactivity, etc.

That's good, but the drawback comes when things go out of balance in the other direction.

Too much sluggishness would be the result of longterm use. So andrographis is normally not recommended for longterm use.

Remember it's all about balance though. If there is liver "fire" then I wouldn't hesitate to keep on using it until the "Fire" is "Cooled".

But then stop it so you don't go too far in the other direction.

Prickly ash is indicated as "warmer" and is contra-indicated in adrenal weakness, faintness et all see here www.christopherhobbs.com

Another trusted/favored source of mine:

ww.healthy.net

Best wishes, CI


The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and products above are not intended to diagnose, prevent or cure any disease.

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BackinStOlaf
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Lulu: Did they mention what doses of samento and banderol help? like, how many drops?

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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map1131
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This bacteria has the capabilty to change it's form according to it's enviroment.

Can this doc guarentee you ALL you have is bio-film and not the other forms???? I don't think so unless he's God.

If you have 3 little active young borrelia bacteria that come out to play and multiply what are you going to have to kill them or rattle their cage.

I don't know about this doc of yours? This is your health and well being. Yours, and you are the one in charge. Docs are just a tool to use.

Someone will come along and give you more reading on biofilm. Lyme has 3 known faces.

Taking a 3rd lyme test was completely un-neccessary. You had 2 ++ tests.

Did ALL sx go away? Sx means infection until proven otherwise and I don't believe your docs therory.

You can do other tx besides abx. There's ways to control their enviroment and yours with many things to continue the kill of any of their forms.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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resaz
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My Dr is a LLMD. He has written ariticles about the biofilm and researches about it in his lab. I don't seem to understand A) how a month before I tested potitive to a WB..then a month later negative but yet am still having symptoms. His take is that the lyme is gone but I am having issues with the biofilm.
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Lymetoo
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My second March 2011 was positive by Igenex but CDC negative.

Believe this one!!!!!! Lab Corp does not even test for all possible bands. Being CDC neg does not mean anything.. The CDC has ridiculous criteria for a positive test.

Continue treatment!!!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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lululymemom
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BackinStOlaf, he did not mention the dose for Samento and Banderol. The bottle says to work up to 15 drops Samento 2X per day and 30 drops 2X per day for Banderol.

We used 10 drops of each, just start out slow as it can cause a major herx reaction.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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resaz
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I belive that the Igenix lab is correct as to me--if you are positive with a specific band than you have it. It confused me to have him look at the LabCorp and say that it was now gone. I feel like I cannot discredit the other 2 tests and say..they were wrong? Do you only test positive for a current infection?
Hve any of you tried the Meyers Cocktail and had positive results?

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baileypup
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I think I know who your doctor is, and may understand a little about the biofilm.

Did you have a blood smear that showed the biofilm? If so, my test showed positive for this biofilm, and the biofilm houses other bacteria, protozoa, viruses, and fungi etc.

From my understanding this biofilm is present with a protozoa, which means your symptoms may, or may not be from lyme, but this new protozoa. Has he recommended any anti-malarial like arteminisin, since you do not tolerate antibiotics?

The key is to penetrate the biofilm, and then use the herbs or antibiotics to kill the pathogen. As lululymemom said, systemic enzymes are used for penetrating biofilm, and often EDTA which can be IV, oral or suppository chelation.

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map1131
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But once you penetrate this bio-film aren't the bad guys going to released in the system again?

I know that this lyme & co stuff is so much more complicated than first thought. That's why some get well or are they really well for the rest of time, and some have this make-up that allows these guys to prosper.

Is this bio-film caused by all the abx we've thrown at it and it's survival at highest? I'll never forget when my LLMD told me 7 yrs ago that until we get to the core being of this illness deep within every cell of ones body will we find the answers for those that abx has failed.

I'm sure some really smart intelligent somebody is working on that now. Please Lord, put him/her in place ASAP or get the lead out of whoever is working on it now. Thanks for hearing our prayers.

Pam

--------------------
"Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill

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resaz
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He only has me on Carafate right now to try to heal my stomach. I ended up in the hospital last Nov. after about 12 days on doxy then amoxicillian.
So carafate and I am eating papaya (his recommendation) to hal my GI tract. Probiotics too.
We are waiting on my PCR test and then my biofilm results.
His initial goal is to get me started on zithromax slowly so my system will not freak out again and I will be able to get treatment.
He knows that I am taking herbs and homeopathy and is fine with that as long as my GI tract stays ok.
When you are being treated.. how to you differentiate between a herx and a new symptom?

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