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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Glutathione, whats the deal

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Author Topic: Glutathione, whats the deal
jbaer
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So I am starting a new protocol, and of course every dr has a different system. This dr uses Glutathione. I have gotten so many mixed results abt this. Some llmd's say it will give me MS, some tell me it's a must.

Looking for help; does anyone have experience using this for an extended period of time. Was it IV, IM, creams.... Did you notice a difference?

Thanks so much for the help!!!!!!!!

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Dogsandcats
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I did the under the skin injections. I can't say I noticed anything. There may be differences on times per day/ week, dosage, etc. So I don't want to discourage you.

--------------------
God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.

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ukcarry
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I've only come across people who are TAKING glutathione to HELP their MS, not cause it: am I missing something?

I had the Detoxigenomic tests done and they showed an absent gene when it comes to glutathione production, so I have just started taking a number of precursors [NAC, ALA etc] and a liposomal glutathione product on the advice of my LLMD. It's early days, so I can't comment on the effects as yet.

Years ago, however,before I knew about having Lyme, I did take a whey product [I think it was Imuplus] for at least 3 months and don't remember noticing much.

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Garden
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ukcarry, If you can't make glutathione, will the precursors help you? Aren't they essentially ingredients? Seems to me (I am SO not a doctor) that if you can't make it, then you need the liposomal form, whether it be IV, topical, or the oral kind I take that is goopy and you hold in your mouth for 20 seconds before swallowing.

Glutathione is an antioxidant, and everybody is supposed to make it. Some people, for a variety of reasons, are deficient. Thhose people definitely need some sort of support to make/receive glutathione.

I think the only question would be whether you have enough already, and don't need more, and whether there is such a thing a toxic levels.

But there is no question that glutathione, at some level, is important to the function of every body.

--------------------
Garden

"Fibromylagia" for 8+ years
Pos IgeneX WB per both Igenex and CDC
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Started tx for Lyme in March 2011

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ukcarry
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Thanks, Garden. There are 3 genes mentioned in the Detoxidenomic test involved in glutathione conjugation and the one that is absent in me is indeed the one that is located primarily in the liver, whereas the other main one is primarily in the brain and lungs [that one is normal in me].

I suppose because of the use of the word 'primarily' the result is REDUCED glutathione-making capacity rather than failure to make any at all, if that makes sense?

Certainly my LLMD was very keen for me to take bothe precursors AND the liposomal glutathione and the test itself suggests taking precursors and 'cofactors', as well as eating lots of allium veg, cruciferous veg [cabbage etc] and an antioxidant-rich diet [the latter to avoid oxidative stress].

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jbaer
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Hello all,
with"normal" people, glutathione is whithout a doubt, a great antioxidant. My LLMD said that he has found that their is something in the Glutathione that aids and supports the production of biofilm. He said it also leads to neuro disorders, probably bc it helps the Lyme and Babesia live. Just didn't know if anyone had heard anything abt that. Thanks

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James1979
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Are you supposed to hold the liposomal form in your mouth for 20 seconds before swallowing? Somebody mentioned that above, but that would be yucky! I hope I'm not taking it incorrectly, because that stuff is very expensive.
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Geet3721
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Jbaer,

So your saying glutathione is good or bad? I'm confused by your post. Sorry could be my head.

--------------------
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New LLMD, New abx, New life coming right up!!!!

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Robin123
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ukcarry:

I had the Detoxigenomic tests done and they showed an absent gene when it comes to glutathione production, so I have just started taking a number of precursors [NAC, ALA etc] and a liposomal glutathione product on the advice of my LLMD. It's early days, so I can't comment on the effects as yet.

..................................................

Me too - I had the detoxigenomic test done, and also showed lack of genes for the glutathione pathway.

It's one of four major drains in Phase II of liver detox. The first phase is like the bathtub filling up. The second is like the bathtub emptying. When there's deficient genes in Phase II, we don't detox very well.

So then we take precursors for glutathione, like uk is describing.

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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jbaer,I have never heard that. I get Meyers cocktail Glutathione IV's 2 X a mo. It really helps. And just started Allergy Research Acetyl-Glutathione and its amazing for me. Very expensive though.
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dogmom2
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robin, I also had that test done and had an absent glutathione pathway(along with other phase 1 and 2 problems) Let us know if the supplements are helping.

thanks

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jbaer
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Hey Geet,
I don't know what I'm saying:) I know that it's a very good source for detoxing, but my LLMD has been doing research saying that it advances the biofilm production. So now I'm really confused!

I will say, he is very good in the lab, and is mentioned a lot on this site. Just in case everyone thinks I'm seeing in idiot:) I've been all around the country seeing docs, but he is the first one with this theory. Was just wondering if people were getting better while using it?

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Richard1062
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Yes, jbaer. Daughter getting better (very very slightly, but for the first time ever) using a variety of herbs, supplements, medicines, & remedies including daily glutathione tabs. Who knows what's useful & what's useless in her protocol, but we're not going to alter anything for now.
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climber
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I am also taking this in the "gel" form and I have not noticed any difference yet. I also take Vit. C. the same way and my LLND is convinced that this is a must do for my situation. Increase of biofilms is interesting to me, but I am willing to give this part of my protocol a couple of months. jbaer-thank you for this information and I am constantly wondering if all these things I am taking are interacting appropriately or possibly holding me back. The one element I can say that has truly helped me the best are the ABXs, everything else, I am not sure. It is all so confusing!
Climber

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jbaer
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I hear ya climber! We take so many things during a protocol, how do we know which ones are helping or hurting us? Every doctor sais something different and every person is different. I just recently stopped almost all supplements, and now I'm restarting one at a time. I will do each one, alone, for two weeks and write down what I notice. I think this is the only way. It's just to expensive to buy all this stuff if it doesn't work!!
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chootik
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I am also experimenting with Liposomal Gluthatione.

The one I take is called "Readisorb". So far I can't use a lot of it, I think it causes too much detox so I've been using very little to build up.

I have not heard that Gluthatione can cause MS or Biofilms, but this is cutting edge stuff so who knows?

However, according to Rich Van Kamph, a CFS reasearcher, we should take the precursors NAC and such to help the body make Gluthatione. I guess their theory is that if you take straight Gluthatione your body might stop or slow down making it.

Im taking both NAC and the liposomal for now.

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climber
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I also took NAC before taking the Gluth. chootik, you make a valid point. I think two months for me and then I will re-evaluate and more than likely go back to the NAC. jbaer, it sounds like a good idea to take a complete break and then introduce your body one thing at a time. I wish that I had done that to begin with, but my impatience got the best of me. Good luck all!
climber

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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jbaer,Can you ask your MD where he got the info about the Glute increasing biofilms and causing MS. Hopefully he will share articles with you like my Md does.

I just e-mailed my Md about this. I have taken all the other precursors people have listed here,including Readisorb.

There is an article on the Acetyl-Glutathione in the June Townsend letter that I posted about

Its really helping me and some of my friends.

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Robin123
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dogmom2:
[QB] robin, I also had that test done and had an absent glutathione pathway(along with other phase 1 and 2 problems) Let us know if the supplements are helping.

thanks

....................................................
I can't tell that anything is working. I cannot take straight glutathione, only precursors.

Am wondering if we could do a quick summary on what those are - whey powder, NAC, ALA, mg, fish oil - what else? Has anyone seen anything happen by taking precursor supplements?

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ukcarry
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In addition to NAC, ALA and New Formula's Essential GSH Liposomal glutathione, my LLMD has me on glycine, which is also one of the precursors [needed by the liver to make glutathione].

Jbaer, if there is anything in what your LLMD is saying about glutathione and biofilm, I wonder if it makes sense to take fibrinolytic enzymes such as serrapeptase, nattokinase or lumbrokinase/boluoke alongside the supplements for glutathione?

I am about to start cycles of 3 days out of 14 on EDTA suppositories to help bring lead levels down, so perhaps that will also discourage biofilm formation [the other 11 days of the cycle are for mineral replenishment].

[ 07-09-2011, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: ukcarry ]

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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jbaer,My Md would like info, resource of where your Md read about Glutathione making biofilms. Hope he is open to share with you. [Smile]

All I know is the new pill form of Glutathione I am taking is shifting things for me.

Not of the precursors did that and I have done all of them over the yrs that peeps here mentioned.

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ukcarry
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I'm very interested in your comments about Allergy Research Acetyl-Glutathione, Healing in Santa Cruz and very pleased for you that it seems to be shifting things for you.

Do you mind my asking how long you have been taking it, at what dosage, and the nature of your sense of improvement?

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like the Spanish Inquisition!

Carry

[ 07-10-2011, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: ukcarry ]

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ukcarry
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Healing in SC, I have just found the article you mention and funnily enough, I know one of the 2 authors!
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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Hi Carry, LOL Spanish inquisition.

The very first time I took it,pain,lifted,I was calmer,eyesight better,sinuses not as stuffy,energy up,and brain fog cleared quite a bit,also headache lifted.Actually felt better than my Meyers cocktail glute push.

This was in about 20 min. I take it every day on empty stomach. 1 to 2 pills. NOT 2 together. Rough days for sure I take 2.

I don't always have that big of shift but can say I don't want to be without it.My Md say's it goes deep into cell and is like a Glutathione IV every day.

Every one is different as we know, so like everything, will have a different experience's.Mine is positive as are some of my friends.Some have taken it and not felt much.And it seems some have felt good and then had a detox experience.Not sure if that's what it is.

Reaction to sulphur??

Everyone should check with their own docs. The only negative is its expensive especially when on SS.

Do you mean the June Townsend article ? I still would like to see info or the resource where it talks about Glutathione contributing to biofilms.

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ukcarry
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So would I!

Many thanks, HISC for your answers. I certainly haven't, as yet, seen these sort of responses to the liposomal version I'm taking, but it's early days.
All the best to you,

Carry

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imagine2
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I have noticed a major difference in my ability to manage herxes. They are nearly as intense and, as a result, have been able to increase abx. doses. Yayyyyyy!!

I've tried glut.liquid, cream but the only one that I noticed a difference in was compounded 1000mg suppositories which I take daily.

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Liposomal never helped me and I used it for a long time. Actually made me feel yukky at times.

Imagine, I think what I am taking is helping to manage herxs also. I don't do abx. I am doing BW herbals for Babs,Bart and the Powassan virus another tick born disease.

Carry can you post the article here? You r very welcome. [Smile]

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ukcarry
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http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7396/is_335/ai_n57733042/?tag=content;col1

Hope the link works!

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ukcarry
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Healing in Santa Cruz and anybody else trying the acetyl-glutathione by Allergy Research/Nutricology, I see that vitaminlife.com are selling it for $59.99, which is a lot less than in many other places.
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oxygenbabe
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I doubt your LLMD has any genuine research supporting biofilm production in vivo if you get glutathione.
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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Carry,I told one of my friends about vitaminlife.com since she uses acetyl-glutathione and feels it may not be the same thing due to the bottle.

Any thoughts about this Carry or anyone?? Thanks

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dogmom2
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Healing in SC, did your llmd say why the acetyl-glutathion is working better than a standard liposomal would?

thanks

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Only thing I know is the new one I am taking is not broken down in the gut and it goes deep into the cells.

Be sure to read the article Un carry posted,up above.Its a June Townsend letter that my Md told me about.

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ukcarry
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Healing in Santa Cruz, I think your friend may have been put off by the fact that the Allergy Research bottle is different from the Nutricology one....

...however, they are the same company and same product. I know this because I have come across this with another of their products in the past.

I see that Amazon are also selling the Nutricology bottle for $59.99,

Carry

[ 07-11-2011, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: ukcarry ]

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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Yes Carry, that is one thing she said. [Smile] I told her to research it. [Smile]
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chootik
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I just looked at the Vitaminlife.com page and it says the product is from Allergy Research, the same company that sells the Acetyl Gluthatione for $90!

In regard to how it works, I actually spoke to the company and was told that it is stable in the stomach and not broken down so it can get into the cells easier.

However as an aside, I did some research and it said Gluthatione can't enter the cells from outside and has to produced from inside.

So I think it's best to take both the pre-cursors and the Gluthatione itself, untill there is more clarity on this.

As for the Liposomal, my mom who has Parkinsons is on it and she can take it just fine.

I however, can't tolerate it. It gives me palpatations and make me feel really bad all together. I'm buying the Acetyl Gluthatione and will report how that goes.

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chootik
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By the way, just called Vitaminlife and they said Allergy Research has CHANGED their name to "Nutricology".

So it's the same product and I got it.

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ukcarry
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Chootik, the reason the makers of acetyl-glutathione say that it can get into the cell is that they acetylate the glutathione [using aspirin], which apparently enables it to pass through cellular barriers more easily into the liver.

If you look at the link I posted earlier, the article includes a study in which it compared well with IV Glutathione.

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dogmom2
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Healing in SC, still having good results from the acetyl-glutathione? My llmd wants me to do the IV but it's so expensive. Concerns me that he's never heard of the acetyl-glut and didn't seem interested in the article I brought in about it, hmmm...
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chootik
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Thanks Ukcarry.

That makes sense. I'm supose to get it shortly and hopefully I can tolerate it and see how it goes.

Are you still taking the Liposomal? Do you plan to get the Acetyl as well?

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scorpiogirl
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I just got back from my appointment today and my LLMD said starting next month we will be adding IV vitamin c and glutathione. Is that the same as what you all are talking about?? Now I wish I asked her more follow up questions.

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ukcarry
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Hi Chootik,

Yes, I am still on the liposomal [and various precursors] and am waiting for the acetyl-g too, as I thought at the very least it would be easier to pack if I were going away than lots of different glutathione products!

I am looking forward to trying it and to hearing how you get on too,

Carry

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ukcarry
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Scorpiogirl,

It sounds as if your LLMD wants you to do IV treatments with glutathione, whereas Healing in Santa Cruz is on an oral form of glutathione called acetyl-glutathione that is supposed to be absorbed by the cells. That's the form that Chootik and I are waiting to try.

There is an article I posted earlier in this thread that compares this oral form to the IV in effectiveness.


Carry

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DoctorLuddite
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There was a thread here a few years ago where people posted about their experiences with IV glutathione. For some it was a miracle drug, making them feel normal, others had poor response. You will never know until you try.
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chootik
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Thanks Ukcarry.

I will let you know how I do on it, I just hope I can tolerate better than Liposomal.

Do you have any reactions when you take the Liposomal?

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ukcarry
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I do feel more toxic than usual at the moment, but am on cycles of heavy metal chelation [3 days on, 11 days off] and both the glutathione [liposomal and precursors] and extra minerals are relatively new additions....so hard to pinpoint what is going on and whether it's a normal reaction to the protocol I'm on.

In addition, my mother is terminally ill, so I am exhausted physically and emotionally and it's hard to know what causes what!

I'll look forward to exchanging impressions of the acetyl-glutathione.

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Leonardjio
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quote:
DoctorLuddite:
There was a thread here a few years ago where people posted about their experiences with IV glutathione. For some it was a miracle drug, making them feel normal, others had poor response. You will never know until you try.

Hello doc, possibly the variation in seleniumlevel made a difference here. What do you think?

"As the integrity of the cellular and subcellular membranes depends heavily on glutathione peroxidase, the antioxidative protective system of glutathione peroxidase itself depends heavily on the presence of selenium." [Wink] (Wiki)

--------------------
"They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17)

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ukcarry
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Another possibility is that people who have an ABSENT GSTM1 gene [on the Detoxigenomic tests] and therefore have impaired detox capacity through their own glutathione may have found IV glutathione overwhelming.

It would make sense that a sudden rush of glutathione in the cells of those who can make very little themselves could cause a big [unpleasant] detox reaction.

It seems that significant proportions of some countries' populations have this absent gene..perhaps we are the people who go on to have Lyme disease that doesn't seem to respond to treatment...

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dogmom2
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I do have an absent GSTM1 gene on the detox profile, what does that mean? Should I be taking more or less glutathione? Or maybe build-up the dosage?
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ukcarry
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Hi Dogmom2, I'm assuming that the longterm plan for those of us with the ABSENT gene is to support impaired glutathione production, either with precursors like NAC, glycine, glutamine etc or with liposomal/IV/ maybe acetyl-glutathione or with a combination of both.

I would guess that you are right in thinking of building up dosage slowly to avoid the possibility of your cells suddenly pushing out a lot more metals or chemicals at once and causing bad detox reactions.

It's something to discuss with your LLMD though, as I will do with mine at the next consultation.

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DoctorLuddite
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Leonardjio,

Good thought. We often assume that one thing is @ the root of all symptoms, but health is a totality that depends on many interrelationships of metabolism. My philosophy is: if you start out healthy, you should remain so, unless you develop a lack of some vital (vitamin, mineral, elemental, etc.) substance or acquire some toxic (heavy metal or other toxic element, endocrine disruptor, etc.) one. The only way to be Lyme free is to empower the immune system to eradicate it. I think the genetics of the liver detoxification systems determines what things will overload those capacities.

Here in the States, heavy metals abound. Mercury and aluminum are in adult vaccines, arsenic is in some commercially raised chicken, Bis-phenol A is just about everywhere there is plastic, which is just about everywhere. Dentists have been getting away with using amalgam fillings for over 160 years, even though world health organizations realize that the most human exposure to mercury is from them and mercury is one of the, if not the most toxic metal(s) on the planet.

I know that I feel better when I take NAC 3 times a day, prepare everything I eat from fresh, raw ingredients, and get lots of sunshine.

And that is not even taking into account the stresses of living in the modern world with all its geo-political uncertainty. The ultimate objective of modern societies should be diligent stewardship of the Earth, not proving that one system of government is better than another...

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chootik
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Hi Doc Luddite,

I agree with your theory and do think heavy metals and other chemicals are ruining our biology. Also like you I feel better on NAC. My question is how much do you think is a good amount to take?

I usually take one 600mg tablet or 2 300mg tablets a day.

Thank you.

Ukcarry,

Sorry to hear about your mom. My mom is sick too, I'm taking care of her and trying to get better at the same time. As I'm sure you know it's very stressfull.

Looking forward to getting the A- Gluthatione and sharing info with you.

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DoctorLuddite
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I used to take 600mg once daily at most, and if I skipped for a little while and then restarted, I would have vivid, chaotic, but not unpleasant dreams. A few years ago I took red yeast rice for a while because my cholesterol was high, and simultaneously started having trouble sleeping. That persisted after I stopped the red yeast rice, and for some reason (maybe because the anxieties that went through my head when I couldn't sleep was similar to what I felt before I had my amalgam fillings removed) I started taking 600 mg 3-4 x day, as NAC is supposed to help with heavy metal removal. My sleep problems improved dramatically, and I felt much better.
I researched lots of info about how much NAC was safe at the time and it seemed that there was no upper limit... I take 1200 mg at a time periodically, if I become anxious or start perseverating on things and it usually gets me out of whatever funk I am in but I think vit. D helps with that too, as I often take them simultaneously. Probably not the most scientific approach, but it seems to keep me going.

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ukcarry
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Thank you for the kind words, Chootik and I feel for you too with your mom.

By the way,the little bottle of Nutricology Acetyl-Glutathione has just arrived!

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James1979
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Does your bottle of Nuttricology AG have a messy label with blurry letters? Mine came like that and it looked very cheap and unprofessional to me.
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ukcarry
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Hi James: no, mine looks pretty ordinary.
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dogmom2
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Any updates on using the acetyl-glutathione?
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dogmom2
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just checking again, any updates? I can't afford the IVs.
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