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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Vegetarians...To Soy or Not to Soy?

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Author Topic: Vegetarians...To Soy or Not to Soy?
WhitneyS
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Hi all. I used to be vegan until I was diagnosed with Celiac, and then started eating meat again to try to get my health back to normal (not realizing i had Lyme).

Anyways, I was thinking about going back to Veg, but I dont think I would want to be eating any soy, and really you have to eat like 1 million cups of beans a day (I'm a small girl!) to get enough protein in that.....So do all you veggies eat soy? Is organic Tempe the way to go if you do?

I have just been feeling so inflamed lately, is the best way I can describe it, like my body is swollen. Maybe time for a diet switch up!

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faithful777
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I was a vegetarian for a long time about 10 years ago. I follow the blood type diet now and according to Dr. D'Adamo, soy is good for blood type A's only. It is a toxin to all other blood types.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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nefferdun
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I don't know why you think you have to eat a lot of protein or that soy is the only vegetarian source of protein.

My son is a recently diagnosed type one diabetic so I have been researching what is best for him. I was shocked to find out they now say the vegan diet is best for diabetics. In fact, the American Diabetic Assoc as well as the Kidney assoc both say red meat is hard on the kidneys and recommend avoiding it.

They also say a vegetarian diet is healthier for everyone in general and causes far fewer complications with diabetics. So I do not follow your reasoning of eating meat to "try to get my health back to normal". If you are using drugs that stress out your kidneys and liver, then meat is going to compound the problem.

Chicken and fish is better than red meat but there are problems with it too. I am trying to incorporate more vegetarian into my diet. I quit red meat three years ago.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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WhitneyS
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I dont really eat any red meat now, only poultry. But blood sugar is is a key issue for Lymies and Diabetics. Because of blood sugar I have been low carb (no grains or starchy roots). What did your research on diabetic diets say was best for blood sugar while on a veg diet?

My comment on "trying to get my health back to normal" I cannot have gluten, or any carby starches so I was wasting away-- 105 pounds and I'm 5'7 adult woman.

My main concern is that with steering clear of allergy type foods and high GI foods is that I'll only be eating veggies and nuts. I brought up Soy because thats the most potent protein source thats Veg. Legumes are ok, but there are far more carbs and starches than protein, you'd have to eat ALOT of beans to equal 3 oz of the protein in chicken.


Any thoughts?

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Abxnomore
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Just Google the dangers of soy and read.

Only fermented soy using the techniques that were developed centuries ago in Asia are thought to be good for you: natto, tempeh, soy, and miso.

Most of the products on the market today are not made in the traditional way but by way of quick commercial methods.

Soy is a cash crop and has been developed for $$$$ into every kind of product you can think of and is in most processed foods disguised by fancy names. It was never meant to be eaten this way nor in huge quantities. Even in countries where it is traditionally eaten it has always been eaten in small quantities. It's an endocrine disruptor and a phyto-estrogen.

There's two sides to every story. I guess it's up to the individual to choose the one they like. I stay away from it and there's the GMO aspect to the issue, as well.

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Fuel1212
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I have read numerous articles stating that non fermented industrialized soy (like in all the US foods) works against the thyroid.

There are many links so here is a reference to decide for yourself. Mercola has some great factual articles on this if you are a member there.

Good search results Soy and Thyroid

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IgM- 31,34,39,83-93 IND
IgM- 41+

IgG- 31,34,39,83-93 IND
IgG- 41++

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MichaelTampa
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I am a vegan. I eat the soy some, but not nearly everyday. Nuts can have quite a bit of protein too. I also take hemp protein powder supplement, 15 grams of protein a day. I am blood type A, for those that consider that relevant.

I did find a very high protein diet, including lots of soy, helpful for a period of a couple months when treating babesia, or at least something that responded to abx used for babesia.

I also found a very low-fat diet, including no soy, helpful for a period of a couple of months, when starting to work on thinning blood and addresing biofilm.

I do think, when treating lyme, things are a bit complicated, and don't think the answer has to be the same all the way through.

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Harmony
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I think the issue is complicated since it may be different for different people at different times.

I had great success with an elimination diet before I knew I had Lyme. Greatly reduced symptoms.

I ate a lot of meat (beef, pork, chicken, turkey, fish, shrimp, etc.) and no sugars of any kind and no grains, eggs, dairy, corn, yeast. Never really ate soy.

Did elimination/provocation trials and left out anything that made me feel bad or gain 2-4 lbs overnight (my doc said that means I could not properly digest the food and had fluid retention)

Lost 45 lbs and felt a lot better - it was very hard, though.

I am writing because I did some tests with York Test Food Allergy lab in the UK - it cost 400$ and they tested me for 113 food IgG antibodies and sent me a report on what to eliminate, what to avoid, and what to eat freely.

You can do it over the internet - no doc required - but you do have to stick your finger to get blood into their kit.

Not sure how scentific this test is, but it helped me. When I avoided the foods they said they found antibodies for in my blood, I did better.

About soy: I only can add that my nutritionalist said not to eat it unless it is fermented.

If I had a choice, I would go for the meat any day. (except I tested positive for beef once and that seems true - I do not do well with it now and avoid it)

Good Luck with yoru diet!

You can always try it out with your body! Just be very strict and keep a diary and eat one way for a while and then the other way and observe. Tip: Be careful not to interpret Lyme symptoms that cycle as food reactions - that part can be tricky.

--------------------
Persistence, persistence, persistence!!!
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence...
Persistence and determination are omnipotent."
attributed to Calvin Coolidge

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Abxnomore
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Fermented is the key word as I wrote above. It's not about having Lyme disease or not having Lyme disease. It's about whether or not soy is good for human consumption.

As I mentioned above there are two points of view and it's worth reading about why non fermented soy and genetically modified soy is bad for your health.

Just Google the dangers of soy. You, of course, must be the judge of what you decide to consume.

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James1979
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Is refrigerated organic "extra firm" tofu a fermented food? Is that okay to eat? Do you have to be blood-type A to eat that tofu?
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WhitneyS
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No, tofu is not fermented. I cant tell you if its good for you to eat or not....there isnt a yes or no answer.
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penguingirl
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I love natto (fermented soy beans). Apparently good for biofilm too. But I think I need to watch how much of it I eat now if it is blood thinner since I flush with Heparin for my IV.

I'm Japanese - and have eaten all forms of soy (soybean, tofu, natto, miso) for many years.

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 -

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gambler
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I've been a vegan for a year now. I decided I had enough suffering in my life from Lyme Disease and I wasn't going to be a part of anything else suffering. I am a very lazy person and I did not do it for health.

So, I did not expect, in any way, to feel better. But I do. I eat a ton of peanut butter (the sugar kind) and almonds. I avoid soy products just because I don't like the taste. As for getting enough protein, I must be because I've got plenty of muscles.

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Razzle
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I am a vegetarian too. Being allergic to soy, I avoid it. However, I think it is ok in small amounts only because of the above-mentioned estrogenic and thyroid-suppressing activity of soy.

Tofu is at least partially fermented. I get sulfite reactions from fermented foods. So my allergy is amplified by the sulfites when I eat tofu...so I get a very, very nasty and systemic reaction from tofu that I don't get from non-fermented soy.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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nefferdun
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My son has been controlling his blood sugar with diet alone. He is off his medication for the time being. He checks his blood sugar several times a day before and two hours after eating. This is what he can have and not spike his BG.

Brown rice and quinoa do not affect his blood sugar. Quinoa is a whole protein similar to milk. He can also have yams but not potatoes. Nuts and beans have a lot of protein.

Most bread raises his blood sugar (even whole wheat) but he can eat Ezekiel bread which is made from sprouted grain instead of flour.

We can bake things if we use half whole wheat and half almond meal. The almond meal has a lot of protein and fat. We make granola with oats, almond meal, ground flax, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, almonds, coconut oil and a very small amount of honey. He can eat as much as he wants of this.

Most vegetables are ok to eat although peas are higher in sugar.
Berries do not raise his blood sugar at all. Raspberries are extremely low on the GI. He makes smoothies out of frozen blueberries and plain yogurt. It is so good and it never bothers his blood sugar. He can't drink any juice. Some fruit, like pineapple, causes his BG to spike high. Oranges are ok and tart apples.

Even if you are lactose intolerant, most people can tolerate goats milk. There is a protein in holstein cow's milk that causes trouble in some people. It is beta A1 and has been linked to type one diabetes in some children. If you can get milk from Guernsey cows (some Jersey cows) or goats it does not have this protein.

Spriulina is also a whole protein and very good for your health.
You can mix it in smoothies. Eggs are a good source of protein. You can make a quiche with goat's milk and the almond meal crust.

When he was diagnosed my first response was "Atkins diet". He was getting nothing but meat and vegetables but then I started to research and was I ever wrong.

I used to be a vegetarian but my husband preferred meat so my kids were raised on it. Now we are trying to convert back. If I had stuck to my guns about being a whole foods vegetarian, my son's risk for diabetes would have been a lot less.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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shadesofpurple
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There are plenty of sources of protein that are not meat. Here is a nice link below.

One thing that i HAVE to point out is that there are many veggies that have protein... and MANY people have been convinced that they need a TON of protein... you really don't need that much...it isn't that hard to get what you need if you are eating good quality foods.

Also one thing that wasn't on this list is nutritional yeast by Red Star, it tastes great and I use it in /on lots of things, It has about 7 or 8 grams of protein in 1.5 tablespoons...

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm

"The RDA and EAR for protein is 0.80 grams and 0.66 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day, respectively. That's an RDA of about 54 grams of protein a day for a 150-pound adult, or approximately"

Not that i put all my faith in the RDA's out there, but many sources I have looked at , it all averages around this number, some a little higher but even so... that is not that hard to get.

54 grams is really not that much...

If you are not a big fan of beans, hummus, is tasty, and garbanzo beans, are beans but are easy to eat and don't "feel" like beans.

As for soy... I LIMIT my soy intake, just because a lot of it is from GMO sources. I do on occasion eat some soy products..but i limit it. I don't drink soy milk or yogurts ever.

If you are a fan of soy milk you may like almond milk, less GMO issues.

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WhitneyS
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Yea-- I dont think I need like 100g of protein,
But I'm finding it hard to get to around 50g....I mean I can't sit down and eat a full cup of beans for 12g of protein. Or take the calroies of 2 tablespoons of peanut butter just to get 8 grams of protein.

Well I guess I'll just see how it goes and be flexible with meat. Thanks for all your thoughts!

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nefferdun
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If you read the book, The China Study, it says we are eating way too much protein. The author says only 10% of our calories should be protein. If you are eating whole foods, nothing processed or refined, and limiting starchy foods like flour and potatoes, you should be fine.

One oz of spirulina has 16 grams of protein, one gram of sugar and 81 calories.
One cup of quinoa has 18 grams protein.
One cup kidney beans has 13.5 grams protein.

Oz per Oz beef sirloin (lean and trimmed of fat) has the same amount of protein as almonds.

One oz of sirloin has 6 grams of protein. Spirulina nearly triples that amount.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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randibear
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i tried soy. talk about stomach pain.....whoa....big time.

i threw it out.

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do not look back when the only course is forward

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shadesofpurple
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WhitneyS when I come up short on my protein I just eat some Nutrional yeast by Red Star, you can sprinkle it on lots of foods, or in soup broth, it tastes yummy , it is about 70 calories, & 7 or 8 grams of protein for 1.5 tablespoons,

I track my calories etc, frequently so make sure i am on track & the nutrional yeast has helped me in many ways, it helps me stay away from butter, I add it to my cream of wheat when i have it instead of butter. i add it to vegatable broth stock, on pasta etc.

it is about 4 dollars for a jar but it lasts a pretty long time.

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shadesofpurple
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Nefferdun- How does spirulina taste? how do you incorporate it in your diet? do you mix it in something ? or just eat it plain? I have seen spirulina bars in the organic dept, they are dried bars like a protein bar, I have never tried them though, Just curious... THX
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James1979
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The spirulina bars are very tasty. I used to eat them every day, until I switched to an anticandida diet. My favorite brand is Raw Revolution.

I get my spirulina in tablets or in powdered greens mixes. The tablets are 100% spirulina, and I usually take a handful at a time. You have to be good at swallowing pills.

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shadesofpurple
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James- why did you switch to tablets? Are the bars not anticandidia diet friendly?
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James1979
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Yeah, too much sugar for me. The sugar in those bars was 100% from fruits, but even fruits bother me now.

Some people are okay with fruits, though, so I guess it depends.

But especially because the bars contain dry fruits, I think they are especially sugary.

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randibear
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how in the world can you eat yeast? so many of us have candida problems. wouldn't that contribute to yeast?

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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James1979
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I agree, Randi, we're not supposed to eat yeast because of candida.

But really, nutritional yeast tastes great with popcorn! It makes it taste like cheese.

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shadesofpurple
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Nutritional yeast is not the same.

Check out the link below for the difference in the type of yeast. Nutrional yeast is not bad for you.

http://bodyecology.com/articles/nutritional_yeast_what_you_need_to_know.php


http://www.bulkfoods.com/yeast.htm

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shadesofpurple
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For those who don't want to read the whole link:


But here's where even more confusion comes in... Nutritional Yeast and yeast extract are also sourced from S. Cerevisiae

S. boulardii:

■Is an immune system booster because it stimulates your body's production of antibodies
■Helps reduce the likelihood of antibiotic associated diarrhea
■Helps controls candida
■Helps controls the potentially fatal Clostridium difficile (C. diff) infection, which is the most common cause of infectious diarrhea in the world.
■Research shows that S. Boulardii is even more effective than the leading drug for tackling C. difficile... a bad guy... commonly found in children with autism.

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James1979
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Thanks a lot for the info, shades! I'm very glad to be corrected.

The links were a little confusing to me, but I'll just assume now that nutritional yeast is good for us, unless somebody proves otherwise.

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