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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Physician With Lyme Who Beat It with abx and Rhodiola

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Author Topic: Physician With Lyme Who Beat It with abx and Rhodiola
Bugg
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Hey All-

Why hasn't there been much discussion on this board about the female physician who was misdiagnosed for years but finally diagnosed with lyme and beat it? (Am I allowed to write her name since she has a website and has published books on this???)

Apparently she used abx for awhile but still felt ill. In order to eradicate her remaining symptoms she took folate, B12, fish oil, and Rhodiola Rosea. She was so impressed with the Rhodiola for her neurological issues that she wrote a book on it...fyi, her husband is a physician at Columbia university...

Anyone else hear of her or try Rhodiola?

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lpkayak
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i'm gonna look into this. first i've heard of it. but i have learned not to get too excited. if there was a for sure cure for all of us...i don't think it would stay quiet for long

there are soooo many variables...starting with your individual genes to 300+ strains of Bb to cos and health history and and trigger history...sooo many variables

i like reading new stuff tho

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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shadesofpurple
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Bugg-I would be interested in reading about it. I am not sure if you can post it on the thread, but if you would PM me the name of her book, please.
Thx

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lou
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Haven't heard of this.

But when I hear of someone who took antibiotics and then switched to something alternative, it is logical to wonder whether the abx did the heavy lifting first.

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lululymemom
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Buhner is now recommending Rhodiola for treating Bartonella. He told me he would include it in his updated version of his book.

Here is the link where I discussed it several months ago.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/105352?

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Lymetoo
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Post the name of the book, and leave her name out.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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glm1111
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Just did a little research on it. Some of the studys (one by Dr. Weil) says it is a powerful antioxidant, anti depressant (dopamine and serotonin uptake enhancer)boosts the immune system.

Also helps with fatigue and can be a mild stimulant. Sounds like it could be worth looking into.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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Bugg
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Hi all-

Just to clarify, the book she wrote includes a chapter regarding her struggle with lyme disease but the book is primarily focused on Rhodiola.

In a nutshell, this woman lived in an endemic area in New York and had pulled ticks off her dogs for years. Eventually she had joint pain and extreme fatigue and memory problems. Her spinal taps, MRIs, lyme tests were always negative. Eventually, a PET can showed that she had vasculitis. A physician decided to treat her for lyme with abx and she started to recover.

However, she says that the abx, alone, didn't make her well. She believes that the abx eradicated the disease but she was still left with residual symptoms....I forget what she called it...post lyme disease symptom state....something like that..

She feels that many people with lyme are overtreating with abx and unnecessarily treating for coinfections for which they test negative. She said she understands why they do this because many are left still feeling ill AFTER treating their lyme for quite some time with abx.

She said that people need to understand that lyme damages their cells and that is what is making them feel ill....she says they need to focus more on cellular repair after abx treatment...

Some of the supplements she recommends for cellular repair are folate, B12, fish oil, and Rhodiola Rosea. She, in particular, says the Rhodiola turned her life around...She said ten days after taking it her brain fog and memory improved dramatically..She claims it helps with ATP, inflammation, healing vasculitis, nerve repair.....

She is a physician in upstate New York....

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Bugg
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***Please note this!!!***

I remember years ago an LLMD telling me to try Rhodiola Rosea. So, I ordered the brand he recommended, Real World Rhodiola, and did not notice any benefit. After reading this physician's account, I understand now that there are A LOT OF INEFFECTIVE AND ADULTERATED brands of Rhodiola...absolute junk...

After reading about this physician's account, I tried to restart my old bottle of Rhodiola Rosea....and again, nothing!!! So, I read that New Chapter Rhodiola is actually a well-regarded brand. I went to Whole Foods and bought the 100mg (because I've read the 300mg bottle can be too much for people)....Within 30 minutes of taking it, I could tell a difference in my mental energy level...I wasn't jittery....just more 'alert'....also, the low-level, constant aching in my legs seemed to dissipate a little...

Since I just started taking it, it's too early for me to report if this is going to help or not...I hope it will as I had encephalopathy from lyme similar to this physician who had vasculitis....

I'll report back and let you guys know if there's any benefit....I just really wanted to tell you buyer-be-aware with Rhodiola....Also, don't try to take too large of a dosage at first or you will feel overstimulated....

I'll let you guys know in a week if it helps at all...

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aMomWithHope
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I'd be interested in getting an update on this as well--

dd just started Ashwaganda but didn't react well to it, plus I didn't like what I read regarding the potential side effects/qualities of this herb--

was already thinking of switching her to Rhodiola so am happy this thread came up.....

Please update in a few days/weeks or when you get the chance!

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lou
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This doctor is maybe making a leap when she assumes that other people are being overtreated. Those of us who are still on antibitics are usually doing it because they help, and when we stop,we get worse again.

Happy that she found something that helped her, but it will probably not be the answer for everyone.

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Haley
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I have posted about this before. My doctor told me about it. I have taken Rhodiola but I would not say that it helps my Lyme. It helps the adrenal glands and depression. I did almost buy the book but decided to try the Rhodiola first.
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nefferdun
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I just ordered the book from Amazon.com and the rhodiola too. I had not read your post about there being a big difference in brands of rhdiola so I hope I got a good one.

I have not taken any supplements in a long time but I have been eating extremely well and I am feeling much better. I do continue to have memory problems so maybe this will help. Although I am not depressed, as I was with babesia, I could use the mood boost.
My son just moved 500 miles a way which doesn't help.

I hope this works. I also take spirulina now which is full of B vitamins and vitamin E.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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BackinStOlaf
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another herb to add to the list....

--------------------
First Symptom 9/09
Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test
LLMD: 1/10
Positive Igenex/CDC test
Treatment 2/10
2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl
Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues

 -

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D Bergy
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Decent Rhodiola Rodesia should contain 3% Rosavins and 1% Salidroside.

Use a standardized product that meet these requirements. I bought mine from Swanson's and it did have a positive effect on anxiety and clarity of thought for both my son and brother.

I do not know how much effect it has regarding Lyme personally, as my wife has never used it, but it does boost the immune system somewhat from my own experience.

My Crohn's symptoms increased as a result of its use, and there is a direct pain/use correlation, when I am flaring. I also have a similar effect taking Low Dose Naltrexone.

Dan

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lpkayak
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Buhner is now recommending Rhodiola for treating Bartonella.

and the info about cellular damage is making me very interested and hopeful

i also have clear cellular damage from lipitor interacting with diflucan

so i will order and appreciate the heads up for new chapter

also, lou...i was on the pattern of better on abx and worse off...over and over again over 3 yrs

my llmd said Bb and cos were resistant to abx...the abx knock down but dont kill them

thats why he had me on buhnr herbs

the hrbs made a big differenc for 3 yrs
then 2 things happened...1-my Lumps came back...noone knows what they are but maybe lymph nodes 2-my igenex wb is the most neg it has ever been

i am not better but many of my sx can be explained: arthritis, thyroid, adrynals, lipitor poisoning,

i'm looking into parasites after some new wierd sx...actually not so new but i am more aware of them

llmd says the herbs are more complicated so bugs don't know how to evade them as well as abx

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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Carol in PA
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The Rhodiola Revolution
http://www.amazon.com/Rhodiola-Revolution-Transform-Breakthrough-Century/dp/159486294X/

If you don't want to buy the book, at least read the main editorial review.


Stephen Buhner joined LymeNet in April 2007 but didn't stay, as he was getting alot of flack from people.
I pm'd him and suggested that he look into Coptis and Rhodiola for Lyme, as they were not mentioned in his book.
He didn't answer back, but I'm glad to see that he's using Rhodiola in his protocol.


p.s. I told him about Coptis because Dr. Zhang uses it in his Modern Chinese Medicine protocol, as an alternative to Allicin.

And I told him about Rhodiola, after reading The Rhodiola Revolution, where the author used it when treating for Lyme.

I gave him links to the books, as I figured he must not have seen them.

[ 08-02-2011, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: Carol in PA ]

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pme
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This lyme treatment is not an easy fix huh? I am reading this post with interest. I have not been dx with Bart but do believe that I have the symptoms. 2 months on abx now and I am starting to feel better...but I believe that almost 4 years of this disease (or more) has taken a toll on my body. Can someone PM me the name of the physician or the book? Wonder if you can download it on ibooks...has anyone done that?

Thanks for this post. I am interested b/c she said it helped the mental/neuro stuff which is what I really would like to see improve for myself.

Thanks

--------------------
Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009)
Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011.
LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith
Lots of supplements!

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Bugg
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Hey guys-

I guess it's okay to post her name since she advertises that she had lyme and has written books: Her name is Dr. Garberg and the two books are Rhodiola Revolution and How to Use Herbs, Nutrients and Yoga in Mental Health Care...

Please note that I'm not endorsing her or the purchase of her books or the use of rhodiola...I merely posted it here because she claims to have been cured from most of her lyme symptoms.

Also, as many of you know, you can go to Google Books and type in the name of Rhodiola Revolution and read many excerpts from it...

Frankly, I posted most of the "meat of it" regarding lyme above....

Like you guys, I'm so sick of trying new supplements and I usually just go back to my old faithfuls...Vitamin D, fish oil, mag, and B12....

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philly78
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Interesting. I had ordered some rhodiola which should be here tomorrow morning. I had been researching products to help with adrenal fatigue and decided to go with it.

I'll update after I take it for a bit as to whether or not it has positive effects.

--------------------
When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal.

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pme
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Yes...keep us posted those of you who are trying it. It is good to hear it seems to be working for a few!!!

Thanks...I googled the info and came up with that book. Wondered if that was the one!

--------------------
Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009)
Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011.
LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith
Lots of supplements!

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DKat
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This sounds promising...while researching, I came across this site about Rhodiola Rosea.
http://rhodiolarosea.org/

--------------------
Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. If one person falls, the other can reach out and help.

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Rumigirl
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Well, it doesn't work for everyone. I read the book a few years ago, and tried a good brand, but it didn't really help. My fatigue, etc. were too industrial grade.

And Lou is right. To say that we are overtreating, and just need to take rodiola, nutrients, etc. is extremely simplistic. If it were that simple, I would have been well long ago.

It really helped a friend of mine though. Didn't make her well by any means, but helped.

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Bugg
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Hi Everyone-

I took 100 mg of the New Chapter yesterday and almost felt overstimulated by it...I'm 5' 8' and 117 so maybe it's too strong for me...I'm going to try only 50 mg today and see how that goes...

I've read from others that it can be extremely stimulating and you have to 'tinker' with the doses...

Yes, Rumigirl, I have a very healthy skepticism about this....especially since this doctor said she took it for her vasculitis....If Rhodiola were a 'magic bullet' for vasculitis then all of the people in this world that suffer from that disease would be taking it....

Personally, due to so many of us having 'normal tests' I find it maddening trying to determine whether our residual stiffness/pain is caused from blood vessel inflammation or nerve inflammation or both....I don't understand why we can't have better info on this....

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nefferdun
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You should try alpha lipoic acid for the pain/neuropathy from nerve damage. Even doctors recommend it for diabetics.

Methionine is very good for healing damaged tendons/muscles. I took it with lysine, ALA, ALCAR, cysteine, magnesium, B100 and B12. I saw almost instant improvement.

I am always searching for the "magic bullet". It seems to be a combination of drugs with frequent changes. Herbs can be helpful but they do cure, in my opinion. When your immune system is functioning and taking over the fight, then I believe herbs are a great support.

Every summer I believe I am close to recovery and then every winter I "relapse" - which turns out to be a new infection I was ignoring.

When I do finally get this under control I need a herbal concoction that will help me transition away from the drugs. This has to be coupled with excellent diet and lifestyle choices. I can't eat for pure pleasure - it has to be for optimal nutrition.

Another interesting herb is Jiaogulan. It is also an adaptogen. I have literally mountains of herbs stuffed away in closets and drawers. Many I have bought by the pound.

But I am always ready for something new.

Two new prospects to try are niacinamide for healing the nerves and improving mental cognition - take 1000+ mg a day.
It is used with schitzophrenia, dementia, halting beta cell destruction, supporting immune system etc. It is given to children with antibodies for type one diabetes, to stop the disease from progressing and the children never become diabetic. New Zealand did an amazing study.

Vitamin D is critical for immune health. It is now believed to play a huge role in the prevention of diabetes and cancer as well as supporting the immune system to prevent disease. It could be why the "flu season" is in winter when sun exposure in minimal.

The other is spirulina which has a huge amount of B vitamins and vitamin E. It stimulates the immune system and energy.
India did a study on rats; 15 mg per pound greatly reduced the need for medication. It regulates blood sugar and seemed to lower the autoimmune attack because the rats had an increase in C- peptide which is what you use to measure insulin.

It is very interesting that there is a TB vaccine in trial that halts beta cell destruction because the vaccine promotes the "tumor necrosis factor". So does spirulina.

So this kind of study is so interesting to me. I have used herbs and supplements to literally arrest metabolic conditions in my horses. Sometimes, like in the case of Cushings disease, it was necessary to move to drugs after a couple of years.

I just wish I could retain more information in my brain - always looking for something to help that which is why this herb interests me.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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annxyzz
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I read posts at another site about people who got very good results with rhodiola for depression. I am finding SAM E and lithium orotate to be wonderful for emotional and cognitive issues.
I also feel coptis ( from herb pharm ) is effective in my case .
I have made much more improvement with one year of herbs and rife than three years of ABX .
After reading all of the million posts of people taking ABX her for years and years and "relapsing" over and over, I read the tea leaves. Herbs and rife have helped me more and the ABX , which caused secondary issues , were not a permanent solution.

The ABX began causing me a host of other alarming problems. Just my personaL EXPERIENCE .

--------------------
annxyzz

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annxyzz
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For those wanting to research REVIEWS of a supplement or herb , check out amazon or iherb and look up the product for feedback from people who post their results .

I read reviews on Sam E and lithium orotate which led me to conclude the products were helping a significant number of people that
impressed me. You can check out rhodiola there also .

If a person feels overstimulated or jittery or edgy, the lithium orotate is VERY helpful for many . It works VERY well for me, is cheap and is very protective of brain cells and neurogenesis . It also helps protect the brain from alzheimers and toxins.

--------------------
annxyzz

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lymeinhell
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I LOVE Rhodiola and have been taking it for years. The key is - you have to take it on an empty stomach.... I take it in the am 30 mins before I eat and again late afternoon. I've given it to many friends suffering stress issues and they all have been positively impacted by it. But again, empty stomach is key.

And FWIW - I've been using Real World Health brand.

--------------------
Julie
_ _ ___ _ _
lymeinhell

Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed.

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Bugg
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Wow, I love all of these comments...so very helpful...thanks so much to all for the great details, research, opinions!!! Please keep 'em coming!!!

Julie-Would you mind specifying what types of symptoms you think Rhodiola has helped you with? I'm trying to determine if it has an impact on pain/aching/nerves???? I can tell it helps some with energy and with depression....Wow, such a great reminder about taking it on an empty stomach! Thanks, Julie, for any more details you can share!!

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Bugg
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This study actually reveals that even the low dose Rhodiola repaired injured neurons at the base of the hippocampus in rats....interesting....


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19403286

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lymeinhell
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Rhodiola was recommended to me because I was having a hard time dealing with any type of stress or high pressure, which made life difficult because I continued to work throughout my illness/treatment. It was almost like my nervous system was on overload (adrenal fatigue maybe?)

I was told Rhodiola protects the body from the effects of stress, and it's a standard supplement with athletes in Europe. So I figured, what the heck? I started just taking 1 with breakfast and thought 'Eh, doesn't do a darned thing'... Until I found out about the empty stomach thing. Transforming to say the least!

Upon taking it in the am and again late afternoon and on an empty stomach, I seriously notice a difference in how I go about my day, and how I handle pressure. Even now that I'm better, I still take it. Not sure I was EVER this even keeled before.

A far as it's impact on pain, I really couldn't tell you from personal experience, as my pain issues were self limited and addressed by the time I started Rhodiola.

Bugg, if you have aching muscles & joints, I would give Zyflamend (by New Chapter) a try. Make sure to time it before you do your daily activity that would aggravate your aches (again, timing and doseage is everything).

--------------------
Julie
_ _ ___ _ _
lymeinhell

Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed.

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pme
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I don't want to change the topic but alot of you have talked about neuro symptoms.

Happily...at least for the past maybe week my fatigue has subsided and I feel pretty good. My cognitive processing is OK, much better than it was in previous weeks...of course its a cycle and I expect to crash again.

But....I still have neuro symptoms, headaches pins and needles and especially reduced sensation in my back and face (difficulty with feeling touch on the face always is accompanied by a headache). Do you think that rhodiola is something that can be tried for that as well as the other cognitive/stress issues? Or is there something else that would heal the nerves.

(I want to be able to feel it when DH rubs my back again....I can't feel it now. and I can feel "itchy" but when I scratch it I can't feel it. It's weird I know but maybe somebody else has had the same type of symptoms and has supplemented.

I am taking a host of supplements but don't notice huge differences from taking any of them except maybe the ones that were given to me for my sinuses.

Thanks

--------------------
Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009)
Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011.
LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith
Lots of supplements!

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annxyzz
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You are describing parasthesias ( nerve sensations) . I had bizarre parasthesias initially , literally burning skin sensation that felt like something caustic was being splattered on my skin. I ( and doc ) theorize that occurred during time the infection was crossing the blood brain barrier and passed into spinal fluid.
After ABX they eventually passed and I rarely have them.
Also , a deficiency of B Vitamins ( B12 B6 folic acid ) or Vit D can cause parasthesias.

--------------------
annxyzz

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annxyzz
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The NOW brand of Rhodiola is cheap and has many reviews ( mostly excellent ) at iherb .
"The Rhodiola Revolution" can be purchased at Amazon .
I have not tried it , but have read other testimonies of its effectivenes from members at another health site .

--------------------
annxyzz

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pme
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Thank you anxyzz for the information.

--------------------
Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009)
Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011.
LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith
Lots of supplements!

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mati
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I have been taking Now Rhodiola for a few months, 500mg every 3rd day as I become sensitive to any herb I take, and the other two days I take either Pregnenolone and Ashwegandha. I might try the Newe Chapter one if it is gluten free.

This regime has helped enormously, I feel much better on it and have been able to increase my Natur Throid which was the reason for starting it. I have noticed a particular improvement in my cognitive function and stamina, I also am feeling stronger. I can`t say which herb etc has helped the most. I am treating Lyme naturally and have not had antibx

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Bugg
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Ugh..I may have to temporarily stop the Rhodiola. It seems to overstimulate me after I take it, even at 100 mg....Then, in the late afternoon my muscles start to feel sore and tight and I hit this weird wall of depression...Believe me, I don't need anything to make my muscles feel stiffer!!!

I tried to take a second dose in the afternoon to counteract the onslaught of tight/sore muscles and depressed feelings and yes, it started to relieve this, but I couldn't go to sleep until 2 am....

I'm not sure I can keep trying this now as it doesn't seem to make others hit a wall of afternoon depression and muscle soreness....???? Don't know what the heck is going on????

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PhillyLyme
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I am intrigued by this...so I when to Whole Foods but they did not have New Chapter Brand. They had this brand called gaia which the clerk said used the same process as New Chapter.

I was on the fence about it b/c I did not want to spend 20 bucks on crap. She then gave me it to me for free to try it...SCORE...

After doing some reading on the web this looks like a great herb so why not....

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canefan17
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Rhodiola is amazing! I've been on it for close to 2 months now. It's helping in so many ways. It's amazing how a few herbs can be so powerful in the healing process. This is one of those.

The formula I use is here...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036THMKS

It has other great adrenal herbs.

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Keebler
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-
Canefan,

So glad to hear of your success with this formula. It is best in a formula so glad you found Gaia.


PhillyLyme,

Yes, indeed, Gaia is also of the same excellent quality as New Chapter.

Very nice of them to let you try this at no cost.
-

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Keebler
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-
Bugg,

Rhodiola can be too stimulating alone. It's much better balanced with other adrenal herbs.

I could not tolerate even a half dose of Rhodiola alone -- especially if taken after the noon hour -- but I do well with it as part of a team.

As a lone star, Rhodiola (for many with lyme) tends to hog the ball and run off with it to shoot hoops all over town, so to speak.

It needs a team to keep it in check.
-

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Keebler
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-
http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT

Links to articles & supplements
-

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Keebler
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-
Bugg,

You mentioned this doctor's book and her good experience with Rhodiola but no where do my eyes see a link to the book. Did I miss it, somehow?

I'd love to see the link so I can see the book. If you would repost that link, I'd be grateful. Merci Beaucoup.
-

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canefan17
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lol Keebler

Love the basketball analogy

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Carol in PA
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The Rhodiola Revolution
http://www.amazon.com/Rhodiola-Revolution-Transform-Breakthrough-Century/dp/159486294X/

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lpkayak
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im interested but insomnia is already a problem...

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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SEREN J WEED
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Alert!!! for those ordering Rhodiola by mail, and they do have New Chapter.

Just attempted to order from Swanson's as I was placing an order anyway and decided to add this.

I was informed that it is restricted for shipping to California. I didn't catch the other states and

couldn't go back. Guess I'll pick it up locally.

--------------------
SEREN WEED

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Rivendell
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I take it in combination with Eleuthero and Ashwagandha. I have an alcohol-free tincture of each one. The brand is Nature's Answer.

The combination helps me a lot with stress.

This combo was recommended to me by Stephen Buhner.

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AuntyLynn
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Wow. Thanks for bringing this older thread to our attention. I have been thinking about adrenal support for several weeks. (Have no energy for anything - but am up by 9 AM and still up 'til 2 AM most nights.) Right now I am out of CoQ10 - so that figures.

Thanks especially for mentioning GAIA's Adrenal Support formula. I see one of the people who wrote a review of this product, also recommended a book called: THE MOOD CURE.

http://www.moodcure.com/

Since I have been interested in nutriceuticals for a while (supplements for the brain), like L-Carnitine and other amino acids, I will be very interested to learn more about restoring mood with herbs and amino acids. Makes way too much sense to me.

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