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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » If Bb doesn't like oxygen, then why Does Burranasco say to avoid aerobic exercise?

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Author Topic: If Bb doesn't like oxygen, then why Does Burranasco say to avoid aerobic exercise?
jenniferk32
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He says it can die off at higher levels of oxygen intake, so why would aerobic exercise be cautioned against and anaerobic be recommended?

Doesn't aerobic mean "with oxygen"and anaerobic "without oxygen"? It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

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James1979
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When you do anaerobic exercise, your immune system is weakened for only 12 hours or less, before it bounces back.

When you do anaerobic exercise, your immune system is weakened for 12-24 hours, and sometimes more.

That's the reason. More specifically, the T-cells are lowered during those time periods, which gives the bugs more chance to take over.

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pamoisondelune
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I believe it's because lyme patients' brains may be tender and swollen a bit, vulnerable, and the hard running and jumping can shake up the brain and make it sore------- at least that's what i felt a few years ago during early lyme treatment. I do lots of aerobics now that i'm much improved.
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sixgoofykids
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Cardio can also be bad for someone with adrenal fatigue, which many Lyme patients have.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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lpkayak
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but when you get almost well i belive-have seen this for yrs in my own kids...if you do the aerobic it helps keep the load down...sort of like herbs

but it is impt to be almost well

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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nefferdun
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Aerobic exercise produces endorphins which boost the immune system. That is how Dr. Bihari realized LDN (low dose naltrexone) would work.

Many of his aids patients were working out in the gym. He said those that did weight lifting did not gain any health benefits; they died on schedule. But those that did aerobic exercise stayed healthier and lived longer.

If you research LDN it is an amazing discovery that is curing many diseases simply by tricking the immune system to work better. It isn't the drug doing the work. It is our own bodies, and that is what we need, if we are ever going to find remission.
Remission - not cure - is key in many auto immune diseases as well as lyme (I believe).

So if endorphins are the key to a healthy immune system, then we need to do things that stimulate endorphin production. Aerobic exercise, meditation and LDN do this.

I think it is impossible to do aerobic exercise when you are struggling with babesia because it infects your red blood cells making you so short on oxygen. Trying to do aerobic exercise would probably be so exhausting it would take a long time to recover.

Stress seems to be the biggest problem that sets us back in recovery because it deletes endorphins. When you are sick it is almost impossible to generate the feel good endorphins. There is not just physical discomfort but also mental and emotional chaos; the infections leave you feeling in the pits of despair.

Before my diagnosis I was doing aerobic exercise a couple of times a week, taking a dance class. I felt much better after those work outs. It gave me a sense of joy that I never felt again. When I found out I had lyme I continued to exercise until I was just too sick with the herxing etc to continue. I knew when I could dance that it was healing. I just didn't know why.

However another reason I had to quit was that the cramps would seem to pull the tendons so hard in my legs that they hurt for weeks as though they had been torn. So I had to quit. But if you can do aerobic exercise without problems then I believe it is good for you.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Susie R
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Nefferdun, that is a beautiful post and it rings so true with my experience. I was a high-intensity and endurance athlete four years ago, and today I can hardly walk around the block.

My own approach to activity is to find things to do that just plain feel good on a deep level. Today I had a beautiful session in the (warmer)shallow pool at the Y. A little strength work, a little stretching, a little 'water dancing'--I imagined music in my mind and moved to the water as I heard it. I felt strong and lithe and beautiful. I probably looked ridiculous but i don't give a hoot!

Gentle restorative yoga, light weights, stretching, walking, whatever...just approach it with an intention to heal, to be deeply present in your own body, and you will know what to do.

Susie

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Runner17
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I've been exercising with aerobic exercise (swimming, biking, and running). I think it has been key to my health. I'm still in the process of recovery. But I'm doing what I enjoy and if Lyme takes that away from me living would be more challenging. Also when running my nerve pain goes away! It's really nice to have some temporary relief!

There was 3 months when I was unable to complete any exercise due to cardiac and stamina issues. Since those symptoms are gone I'm able to exercise. I think it's incredibly important to do what you enjoy as much as you can!

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TF
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From page 31 of Burrascano:

"In addition, there is now evidence that a carefully structured exercise program may benefit T-cell function: this function will depress for 12 to 24+ hours after exercise, but then rebound. This T-cell depression is more pronounced after aerobics which is why aerobics are not allowed."

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James1979
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quote:
Originally posted by TF:
From page 31 of Burrascano:

"In addition, there is now evidence that a carefully structured exercise program may benefit T-cell function: this function will depress for 12 to 24+ hours after exercise, but then rebound. This T-cell depression is more pronounced after aerobics which is why aerobics are not allowed."

Aha! I was so close! [Smile]
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lpkayak
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which guidelines are the quotes from?

after he wrote them he started to do more research and did change his recc some. he has talked about the changes at conferences

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Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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TF
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The most recent Guidelines, 2008, found here:

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by James1979:
When you do anaerobic exercise, your immune system is weakened for only 12 hours or less, before it bounces back.

When you do anaerobic exercise, your immune system is weakened for 12-24 hours, and sometimes more.


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Which is which??

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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James1979
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Ouch - you really called me out on that one, Tutu.

The first one was supposed to be anaerobic, and the second one aerobic. BUT... I got the hours wrong, as evidenced by TF's wonderful Dr. B quote above.

But the basic idea was that aerobic exercise lowers the immune system for a longer period of time than anaerobic exercise, and it gives the bugs too much free time for frolicking around in our tissues.

Now, if anybody needs me for the next couple of hours, I'll be the one with the brown paper bag over my head. [Smile]

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Runner17
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My LLMD says aerobic exercise is okay, actually good, as long as you don't crash the next day.
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nefferdun
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In the past, auto immune disease research focused on drugs to suppress one part of the immune system.
New research supports the theory that BOOSTING the immune system is the key to stopping auto destruction.

For instance in diabetes research, Dr. Faustman discovered a TB vaccine given to mice with genetic (not chemically induced) diabetes, reversed the disease. The first human trial was 100% successful. How did it work? By BOOSTING the Tumor Necrosis Factor - a key component of the immune system.

LDN increases T-cell production by up to 300%. Dr. Bihari realized LDN might have the same effect as aerobic exercise which was lengthening the lives of AIDS patients by boosting endorphins which boosted the immune system. That seems to be the opposite of what Dr. B is saying.

I felt much better when I could do aerobic exercise and the effects were long lasting.

My son, who has latent type one diabetes feels much better when he plays basketball and rides his bike. This aerobic exercise has helped him stay off medication. I hope the LDN might help him get into remission.

I believe if you can do aerobic exercise without hurting yourself, do it. If you enjoy it, you are producing endorphins, clearing your mind of worry and even reducing pain. That is healing.

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old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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TF
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According to the Burrascano quote, the depression of T-cells (part of your immune system needed to fight lyme and cos) is more pronounced with aerobic exercise.

To me "more pronounced" means "worse." So, aerobic exercise is going to depress your immune system worse/more noticeably than weight lifting. That's why Burrascano recommends weight lifting instead.

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Robin123
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I notice that I feel much better after doing some light swimming, about a half hour's worth. I have quite a stretch routine in the pool too - I stretch all my muscles first. So I think you have to judge for yourself what makes you feel better or worse.
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nomoremuscles
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Burrascano, as I remember it, used to recommend aerobic exercise in his guidelines way-way-way back. But I think clinical observation led him to change that recommendation, and then, later, the science seemed to bear it out.

But, of course, one must consider that my memory is not worth much.

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nefferdun
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I agree that is what Dr. B is saying. I am saying there are contradictions to that theory and maybe he is wrong. According to Dr. Bihari's research, aerobic exercise increases endorphins which boosts T-Cells - stimulates the immune system.

He observed AIDS patients who did aerobic exercise lived longer healthier lives because the endorphins produced during aerobic exercise stimulated their immune system.

That is the whole basis of how and why LDN works. It tricks the body into producing more endorphins which boost T-cells up to 300%.

Other ways to boost endorphins are meditation, deep body massage and accupuncture. Weight lifting does not produce endorphins. Dr. Bihari noticed the AIDS patients that lifted weights did not become healthier, fight off disease as well or live as long as those that did aerobic exercise.

So my vote is with Dr. Bihari because I have personally experienced it. But with babesia in full swing, you just can't get enough oxygen to do aerobic exercise. When I was really sick any kind of exercise could cause problems. Using my muscles often led to horrible cramps. Just do what you can.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by James1979:
Ouch - you really called me out on that one, Tutu.

The first one was supposed to be anaerobic, and the second one aerobic. BUT... I got the hours wrong, as evidenced by TF's wonderful Dr. B quote above.


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Well .. I'm easily confused! [Razz] And you know what happens when you assume something! [Big Grin]

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Opinions, not medical advice!

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James1979
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I dispute that "weight lifting does not produce endorphins". I'm pretty sure I've felt "runners high" after doing intense weight lifting. Does anyone have more input about this?
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CherylSue
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Make sure you don't have any adrenal fatigue when doing any kind of exercise. Post exertional fatigue and malaise will hit.
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rks
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I think deep breathing plays a big role in helping to fight Lyme as well. I do yoga and with yoga is deep breathing and I've been feeling better and better and now work out for about an hour to an hour and a half at least three times a week.

In Dr. S's book, he recommends doing deep breathing exercises three times a day. He also recommends a book by Dr. Gay Hendricks called, "Conscious Breathing" if anyone is interested. It makes sense to me as the oxygen your creating in your body will help make an unfriendly environment for the spirochetes.

As far as aerobics, I think it is probably just too powerful and aggressive of a workout and better left alone until one is almost finished treatment.

Just my two cents . . .

** edited to remove LLMD's name **

[ 09-05-2011, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

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CountryMouse
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I do 50-60 minutes of elliptical work every other day alternating with running/brisk walking. I have noticed that lately my endurance has gone down. Makes sense with the shingles hitting me now.

I keep my heart rate in the 130s or less...does anyone know if Burrascano had a cut-off for heart rate as far as what is considered aerobic and what is not? I would imagine that weight lifting could hike up the heart rate just like running does. And some of us can exercise hard and not raise our heart rates because we are conditioned to the exercise.

So at what point is exercise considered aerobic?

--------------------
Country Mouse

6/2011 IgX:
IGG: 31 IND, 41+++, 45+, 58+
IGM: 31+, 39 IND, 41 IND, 83-93 IND
Band 31 confirmed to be Lyme epitope by Igenex 7/2011

8/2011 IgX: POSITIVE
IGG: 31+, 34 IND, 39 IND, 41++, 45+, 58+
IGM: 31+, 34 IND, 39 IND, 41++, 83-93+

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Lymedin2010
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I believe if you are severly affected (Babs or Bart), then your best bet is to do anaerobics. There might not be much else you can do without causing further damage to your immune and yourself, risking spreading the disease further.

Once you are well enough to do aerobics, then do so. This will continue to give you benefits as follows:
-Up levels of Endorphins
-Once muscle mass has been built it will give more energy
-Heat generation will cause capillaries to open up more throughout, allowing more herbs or ABX, and fighting cells to occupy inaccessible areas.
-Inc body heat causes greater absorption of treatment by your body.

So start out with weights if you are very sick, then as you get better slowly incorporate aerobics. Then mix the too. Do not build too much muscle mass, since more muscle requires more energy and use of body resources. Muscle mass also provides a larger hiding ground for bacteria. Go for toning instead. Use weights to circulate your blood more efficiently, pushing and pulling fighting cells into hard to reach areas.

I wonder if exercise can break up biofilm at all?

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jenniferk32
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Update- My doctor says the aerobic thing is from old research that has since been shown to be untrue. Who knows these days about anything....one day something is great for you and the next it's terrible.

I guess the only thing you can do is do what feels right to you.

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Toppers
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When I try to do aerobic stuff (Systemic Bart, no lyme suspected) I am floored for a week. When I lift weights, the Bart is under control.

I think aerobic is good for lyme, terrible for bart/babs, as Lymedin2010 said.

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pooldog71
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Great thread with many interesting posts. I do believe that our activity level and exercise are keys to remission.
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