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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Anyone NOT get well using the Bionic or PE1?

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Author Topic: Anyone NOT get well using the Bionic or PE1?
aMomWithHope
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I'm trying to get a balanced view of the Bionic and PE1 treatment results--

so far everyone on LN seems to have had great results from their use, which is wonderful;

however, the too-good-to-be-true, ever-skeptic person that I am (plus the exorbitant expense for these protocols), is making me want to have some more anecdotal evidence of its success--but would also like to hear some negatives too (if those exist, and I'm sure there has to be one or two people who did not have as great an outcome as some others.)

I'm a strong believer in hearing all the pros and cons before making a decision as I believe both sides are beneficial to know--so please share if you can........

I would love for the comments to stay on this thread because I'm sure there are others who want to know this info as well; however, please feel free to pm privately if you'd rather not share on the public board--

Your honesty would be much appreciated and kept in strict confidence--thank you!

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17hens
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This should be a good thread! Thanks, MWH, for asking these questions...

Cons for me:

1. Sometimes I really wish I had a practitioner to work with me, especially since I don't have a good grasp of energetic testing. For myself, I know how I feel, I can feel what works and what doesn't, what I need and what I don't. I can go with my gut and fairly often, my gut is right. But for my daughter not so much. I tend to just do for her what worked for me. And for my husband who has not figured out a good detox for himself, I am afraid to start treatment. I know how strong the treatment is and I'm afraid of overwhelming his body, making him feel sick. If money was not an issue for me right now, I'd be able to afford an energetic tester and a strong detox, but I can't. So I wish I had a practitioner to guide me.

2. The treatment brings out red, hurty bumps on my forehead, the back of my head, ears, shoulders. And zits. Lots of zits which I never had before. I think the red hurty bumps might be parasites and the zits are toxins trying to find their way out. Of course hurty bumps and zits are nothing compared to lyme&co, so it's quite easy to handle this level of discomfort. Although at times embarrassing.

Pros:
1. Improvement is gained while feeling stronger not weaker. I made improvement while on abx but ended up feeling weaker. You know? Like my body had taken a beating. With the Bionic, my body feels stronger and stronger.

2. I am improving and all without drugs! People ask me how I am (maybe expecting me to always say "great") and I've learned to explain it like this - Treatment is like running a marathon. You feel like your body is working very, very hard and it takes a while to recover from treatment (that's why the 4 weeks between treatments) but everytime my body recovers, I feel better than the last recovery. I understand that the Bionic is a tool, not an instant solution. It gives the body what it needs to kill the infections on its own. I don't feel great all the time. Sometimes I feel pretty yuck although never as bad as when I still had borrelia.

3. Cost - yup, cost is a pro for me!! The treatment and the machine cost alot, that's true. But for my family of 4, we spent more in one year of treatment with an LLMD. In the long run, this is saving us money, no doubt about it. We just had to come up with the money up front. Not easy, I know.

4. Dr. W.'s treatment in Germany got rid of my borrelia. During my last self treatment, Babesia reared its ugly head. I followed Six's lead and started drinking tonic water. Who would guess that without borrelia around, 4 weeks of tonic water would have lowered my babs symptoms so much that I barely notice it now? It's amazing! I took 5 months of mepron, zith, bactrim and didn't get anywhere near the level of health that 4 weeks of tonic of water have given me.

OK, I'm sure there's more, but I'll stop for now.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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sixgoofykids
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In my experience, it's not a stand alone treatment. It does kill the borrelia, but by the time we get sick enough that we end up taping vials to our chest and shining a light on our body to get well, we have much more wrong than only borrelia.

I did many other things to get well once I got rid of the borrelia. I truly don't think I'd be well today without the Bionic, but I don't think I'd be well if I hadn't done heavy detoxing (Hulda Clark, etc.), parasite cleasing, and working on my gut long-term.

There are others who have no gotten totally well. My roommate, for example. She had viruses in addition to the borrelia. The Bionic worked on her borrelia, but she needs to get better from the viruses to get well.

So, don't look at the Bionic and PE1 as a silver bullet. I think they're the best treatment out there for borrelia. I think it's easier to get well with the borrelia gone. But it won't be the only thing you have to do.

IMO, the PE1 is not expensive. I paid more to go see my LLMD in NY (I'm from Ohio).

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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sixgoofykids
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quote:

4. Dr. W.'s treatment in Germany got rid of my borrelia. During my last self treatment, Babesia reared its ugly head. I followed Six's lead and started drinking tonic water. Who would guess that without borrelia around, 4 weeks of tonic water would have lowered my babs symptoms so much that I barely notice it now? It's amazing! I took 5 months of mepron, zith, bactrim and didn't get anywhere near the level of health that 4 weeks of tonic of water have given me.

So glad to hear this!! Funny how it works, isn't it?

[ 09-11-2011, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

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17hens
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I've learned that other radionic nosodes are available in Germany - borrelia, bartonella, babesia, ehrlichia, ebstein bar, RMSF, Mycoplasma
Clamydia, and FSME.

I don't know if others have used these (from Germany) and if they've worked or not.

Just a thought.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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Haley
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I am also interested in hearing the responses as I am considering going to Germany for this. I just don't think there are many people on here that have done it.

My concerns are ....

I can't really tell which infection is doing what so even if I get rid of Borrelia and I'm still ill, I feel that I will be in the same spot not knowing what I have or IF I have gotten rid of Borrelia. How do you really know if Borrelia is gone when there are no tests? Don't say muscle testing please. I mean were there specific symptoms that left for good that made you think .... Borrelia is gone?

My biggest problem is my brain... if it doesn't help my brain get better I wouldn't do it. Can anyone say how it effects cognitive function?

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17hens
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Haley,

"Don't say muscle testing please." I hear what you're saying (I thought that too for a while), but do you hear what you're saying? You are considering energetic treatment but not energetic testing. At some point, you decide you either believe it enough to give it a chance or you don't.

I was tested 3 times for lyme and 1 time for coinfections. I never had a positive test. But unlike many others, I had a tick and a bull's eye to prove (to myself if no one else) what was wrong with me.

Dr. W's energetic testing is the only one that gave me a positive test.

Concerning your brain (that's the worst symptom, isn't it), Dr. W. says (in Connie's book), "I administer a hyperbaric ozone treatment to those patients who suffer from concentration disturbances (brain fog) or who have trouble with word finding. Ozone increases teh blood's oxygen level to 180 - 200% (the normal range is 96-100%), thereby alleviating these symtpoms."

It did wonders for my cognitive function. And babesia treatment is doing wonders too. It's getting there.

Before I went to Germany, long conversation would wear me out. While in Germany (with ozone) I could navigate the bus/train system, translate back and forth german and english, talk for hours.

Since continuing treatment at home, now I can spend Sundays at my mom's with a room full of family (20+ people) and talk and talk for hours and my brain doesn't get tired even with multiple conversations going on in the room. I
have had "bad" days around treatment time (herxing?) when my brain gets tired again but that hasn't happened now for a few weeks.

I dont' know, maybe this helps you figure things out, maybe not.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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Hambone
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This is a tough question, as I only started PE1 in July and have only done 9 treatments.


Am I well? No. Not yet.


That being said....

The treatments did make me Herx pretty hard. It was manageable with Borellia nosodes, but when I added in a blood nosode, I over did it ( my own fault ).


Temporary pain relief from the light itself is worth it's weight in gold. I have a frozen shoulder and the pain relief is instant and lasts several hours. Nips my heel pain in the bud for hours.


I'd never had zits in my life, but started getting the "hurty red zits" just like 17Hens described. They are on my forehead, and it appears to me to be toxins trying to get out. This did NOT happen with abx's. Started with the light.


I started getting daily low grade fevers with the PE1. I got fevers, too, with abx's, but the fever would stop as soon as I stopped the abx. Not so with the PE1. With the PE1, the fevers sort of gained momentum and didnt stop.


I am currently taking a break from treatment because I want to address my MTHFR defect, and do some heavy metal detox with Detoxamin. I'm a terrible detoxer and I need to take a break from the light and focus on this for now.


I also started drinking tonic water...which is funny Hens mentioned it because I was just about to ask about that....LOL. Tastes nasty, but how much am I supposed to be drinking?


I can kick myself for not getting a C4a test done BEFORE starting treatment, but after 8 treatments my results were 3,700. High, but not too bad at all. I was expecting it to be through the roof. I've seen others here over 10,000.


I really think the light works, but my problem is not being able to detox fast enough what my body is killing. It is not a benign treatment by any means.


I don't think I answered your questions. It's still way too soon to tell. But I am very happy I bought one from what I've seen so far. I'm a work in progress.

I feel like for that subset of people who feel like abx's will be what kills them and not the disease itself, the people who have a very hard time tolerating even low dose meds, this is a good choice because it takes the abx's out of the equation but still kills the infection just the same ( or even more ).


Hope all this rambling makes sense.

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canefan17
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I find that Rife therapy (Coil) kills borrelia fairly easy as well.

Ironically enough while Lyme is deemed the gatekeeper, root of the problem, and the most pleomorphic... I don't find the spirochetes hard to eradicate.

Maybe it's the bacterias slow reproduction cycle and susceptibility to certain treatments.

For me Bartonella, metals, and parasites are friggin insanely hard to "cure."

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MichaelTampa
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What's with the tonic water, a treatment for babs? Never heard of that. Not wanting to derail this thread, very interested in it as well. Could someone please start a tonic water thread, even if only just to explain its use briefly?
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hopingandpraying
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I took my son for treatment with the Bionic several years ago and it did not help him.
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sixgoofykids
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Michael, tonic water has quinine, which is antimalarial. Natural tonic waters have the whole herb. When I treated the the Bionic, the tonic water was enough to take care of babs symptoms once the borrelia was gone.

Previously, I needed heavy meds to get rid of babs symptoms.

Now I don't have borrelia, bartonella or babesia so no longer need the tonic water.

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Haley
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Sorry if this question has been posted before but - What is Dr. W's energetic testing? How does he do it?
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Fuel1212
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Hoping... did you see Dr. W in Germany also for your son?

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IgM- 31,34,39,83-93 IND
IgM- 41+

IgG- 31,34,39,83-93 IND
IgG- 41++

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Brussels
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Hoping, could you please give us more details of treatment time, and if your son continued treatment home etc?

Thank you!
---------

Dr. W's energetic tests are two, I think, one is the biotensor and another a frequency machine similar to Vega or Asyra.

People that don't use energetic tests have been using homeopathy for more than 100 years. Homeopathy is a field on its own.

Even the Greek knew about the homeopathic basic principle (that a diluted poison would eliminate the symptoms of the poison, for example).

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Brussels
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Gigi didn't like photons because it awakened her dormant borrelia and that it dumped toxins all around... She didn't continue her treatment with the Bionic but used AI instead.

And Joe, who visited dr. W., continues suffering from chronic fatigue, even though he doesn't need to address borrelia anymore (before, he did need to take antiborrelial drugs and herbs). His main health problem was NOT borrelia and he's still searching.

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Brussels
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Other people who were using Lightworks, also an infrared device, had some trouble (like Sparkle). I think she had a big issue with parasites, and I do think it is problem to treat with infrared if you got parasites (my feeling).

---------
Another lady, who posts in the AI thread, was still sick after dr. W, but she also said her borrelia went dormant or low profile, but she still needed to treat many other issues (but not borrelia anymore), she lost her gall bladder due to toxins after dr. W's treatment...
-----

these are the people who didn't get well that come to my memory...

I've been away from the forum for about 1 year or more, so there may be more people that I don't know!!

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aMomWithHope
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Thank you everyone for posting and sharing your experiences.

I'd love to hear more experiences, both positive and negative. And, if negative, perhaps more detail as to why you think it didn't work--ie, didn't continue at home (didn't buy the Bionic or PE1 machine), Bb wasn't the biggest issue, didn't do treatment with Dr. W but on one's own, etc.--again, if you feel comfortable sharing (or PM if you want to remain private).

I realize that neither the Bionic or PE1 will be the magic bullet for my dd's recovery; however, if I could get her off abx (which I feel at this point is causing more harm than good), and she could maintain and/or manage the rest with herbals and supplements, that would be a phenomenal accomplishment--

I just don't have the $$$ to spend on something that won't work--if it does work, than obviously it is priceless and I will have wished I'd done it earlier--but if it doesn't (and many things that sounded great that we tried, haven't worked)--than we will be in much worse shape financially and perhaps not be able to try a different route for quite some time (until funds are replenished).

So I need to make this decision with complete open eyes and realistic expectations........

Thanks again--your comments are much appreciated!

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sixgoofykids
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Dr. W uses the Bicom 2000 for testing.

He has a biotensor, but he never used it with me.

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17hens
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Bicom 2000

http://www.energetic-medicine.net/bicom.html

http://www.bicom2000.com/pages_eng/patient_vet_new/pv_diagnose_fs.html

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"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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m0joey
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To amomwithhope,

Considering that your goal is to get your son off antibiotics, I think the decision to go with photon treatment is an easy one. The question should be: has anyone that has treated with the Bionic (and had an energetic tester to guide them once back in the states) had to take antibiotics ever again?

I am the "Joe" that Brussels mentioned above and my main problem is likely a retrovirus. Despite the continual presence of an immune-suppressing retrovirus, I have still been able to keep tabs on the borrelia and co-infections through the last few years just with the bionic. That alone is an amazing feat as you often hear of patients with AIDS succumbing to opportunistic infections.

If we're gonna talk about antibiotics, I'll tell you about my before/after experience. In 2008 right before I went to germany, I was herxing like a mofo for 6 months straight on zithro, mepron, and bicillin. That was literally the worst I'd ever felt. After I came back from Germany I had the confidence that I didn't need the antibiotics anymore so I never took them for lyme, but a few months ago I came down with an ear infection and took high dose antibiotics. Somewhat to my surprise I had no herx/side effects whatsoever. To further test this out, I started piling on the antibiotics to the point where I was taking doxy, amoxicillin, and bactrim at the same time. Still, no symptom change, no side effects, no herxing. It got to the point where I didn't feel like it was doing anything so I just stopped taking them. I just relayed my experience to my LLMD and she even told me to move on and focus on the virus.

Again, not needing antibiotics post-bionic really does seem like the norm and I would love to hear if anyone experienced otherwise.

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Brussels
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Joe, than you for your input! We were both like a pathogenic soup, full of ACTIVE infections before photon therapy, and most of my infections got mostly dormant after it.

As you said, I do feel that the danger of succumbing to opportunistic infections in AIDS is not too far for many lyme sufferers. At least, I was on constant fight with MUCH more than only tick born infections and one infection that almost killed me was tuberculosis.

When borrelia got to background after photons, I felt MUCH better and I think my immune system went a bit on track and could control these opportunistic infections best. I stopped treating them (the basically only fight I have is with candida on and off, and colds in winter).

When I see so many people with teeth problems, I just see the same pattern like myself. Immunosuppression from borrelia causing a host of infections everywhere in your body. And I do think the main culprit is borrelia.

Not babesia, bart, mycoplasma, not even candida. I lived with candida, also immunosuppressive, for 2 decades before I caught lyme. It was lyme that almost killed me a couple of times, not candida. It was lyme that made my immune system collapse.

I suppose that people who don't use any form of energetic testing have more difficult to do the protocol because:

1st- they don't get ALL the right cleansers. No cleansers, no fast improvement, even you can go backwards in my experience. Just see Hambone above, but I do think he's not an isolate case. We all learn by doing. We only believe on the cleansing story after own experiences.

2nd- they don't know how to time the nosodes. Like after finishing the basic borrelia treatment for a couple of weeks with dr. W's basic 10 nosodes, which ones to photoon next?

In which timing? How to do the 30C, 60C, 100C, 200C then 1000K treatment? Is borrelia really gone after for me to start the next step like blood nosodes? do I need further treatment (I needed Borrelia antigen for example, and another strain of borrelia called garini).

For what I keep reading, eliminating borrelia is quite clear and strong with photons and homeopathy, mostly to everybody.

------------------
While I agree with Canefan that killing borrelia looks easy (because we keep herxing with different treatments), I disagree that Rife will put borrelia dormant for so long as photons do.

At least, that is not my impression after reading the Rife threads. It seems people need to keep on treating for very very long.

This is NOT the case with photons! You get 'done' with borrelia for quite some time!!

I didn't use Rife, but used microcurrent from dr. K (KMT 24) and while I do think it helped, it didn't solve the borrelia problem, not even in years.

Now I have a Rife machine. So far, I almost never use it (but also because I have no more lyme).

----------
How is photooning with the virus? Usually viral nosodes work fine (not always perfectly, I agree) and viruses don't appreciate infra red much (but it is definitive not a solo treatment).

As viruses are more like genetic material than 'alive' properly, I guess it can be tricky to treat them...

wishing you good luck! Please post here when you find a solution!!

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17hens
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joey,

might the virus you're dealing with be EB? If so, have you used a German nosode with the Bionic for it?

I'm asking as I have EB and the opportunity to get a German nosode and am wondering if it would work.

thanks,
hens

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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sixgoofykids
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Hens, I think Joey has treated for EBV. I believe it's likely the XMRV that he's dealing with.

Thanks for sharing your experience with abx, Joey. I've been afraid to even think about taking them, it's good to know that if I need them it might not be a big problem.

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sparkle7
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I had a mixed response with the LightWorks. I think it may be due to a parasite problem but I don't know 100%. I haven't done alot of testing other than on my own energetic testing.

I made a big improvement wth anti-parasite herbs but I stopped for a month or so & I'm back in pain again... I'm a bit afraid to try the LightWorks again until I get the parasites under control. I'm trying to do it on my own with herbs but it takes a long time to get rid of them.

I suspect it may be hidden lungworm, threadworms or Strongyloides. They don't have accurate tests for some of these from what I have read so I don't want to spend alot of time fooling around with doctors. Most aren't really familiar with parasites, as well. I may try ivermectin but I'd rather stick with the herbs if possible. They did help but I relapsed when I quit them.

I did have some strong, negative responses from the LightWorks which is not as strong as the Bionic or PE-1. I believe it may be due to parasites but I can't be 100% accurate about this.

All of this stuff is very complicated to think about & decide. You have my empathy... It does seem like a promising direction in healing & worth a try but it may not be a cure-all. All treatments with this illness have their drawbacks.

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m0joey
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It's likely a retrovirus I"m dealing with. I've treated EBV and many other viruses with nosodes. My nosode collection is a serious contribution to germany's economic well being [Smile]

Besides not getting better from treating all those other infections, the main reason I say retrovirus is I'm consistently testing positive for toxic antiretroviral medications like AZT and raltegravir, whether it be muscle testing or EAV testing. XMRV testing is still up in the air, but I've always thought it's a stronger confirmation of virii using the medication meant to treat it anyway. I don't have HIV on either lab tests or energetic tests.

If I knew what virus I had and had the nosode for it, that would've been my first line of treatment. But as some have mentioned, using the bionic doesn't seem to be as effective for viruses as it is for bacterial infections so I don't have an inclination how effective this would've been for a retrovirus. Still I would've seen this route through before I popped any ARVs, that's for sure.

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17hens
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Don't mean to be a broken record here or to hijack the thread but... would you say it's worth trying the EBV nosode then or not so much?

And yes, thank you so much for sharing, Joey. What you've shared (and proven) is huge!

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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m0joey
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Absolutely it's worth it. Based on EAV testing, I temporarily cleared EBV and HHV-6 (amont other co-infections) using only the bionic and nosodes. (Being opportunistic infections, of course came back later due to my immune suppression) I got the nosodes in Germany. Last I heard it's become harder to get the staufen-pharma nosodes?? Hopefully that has changed
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Brussels
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Herpes can be many times easily controled by nosodes, specially when photooned.

At least, that has been my experience.

Only when the herpees infection is chronic, like someone with decades suffering from bouts of herpes, the person needs a more holistic treatment!

---
This treatment is not only for borrelia. Anything that reacts to ingested homeopathic nosodes (hundreds of pathogens do!!!) will work better if photooned!!!

NOT everything reacts to ingested nosodes (like most parasites), babesia (that I know)... So if they don't react to ingested nosodes, well, photooning them will work nothing, in my opinion.

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hopingandpraying
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Fuel1212 - yes, my son was treated by Dr. W in Germany.

Brussels - my son was treated for two weeks by Dr. W. He had the Bionic treatment using nosodes which I would get at the local pharmacy, I can't quite remember what else was done. He brought home some homeopathic remedies which he took.

aMomWithHope - I don't know why it didn't work. As they say, what works for one may not work for another. Other people who received this treatment were helped. Ultimately, you need to decide what to do.

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sixgoofykids
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hopingandpraying, did your son continue treatment once he returned? I know I did not return from Germany well. I was 50% improved, but it took 9 more months before I was well.

Everyone's body is different .... and we all have a different mix of what's wrong with us. I know there was a lot more wrong with me than borrelia.

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sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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17hens
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That would be my question too. Did he continue treatment?

I came home well feeling very well (my borrelia was gone and I believe the ozone had a lot to do with feeling terrific) but then my bart and babesia symptoms returned. They are going away with continued treatment (and tonic water).

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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aMomWithHope
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Thank you everyone for keeping this thread alive.

I'm very much appreciating hearing both sides of outcomes. I'm very happy for those it has worked for and very sad for those it didn't---

I hope even more post with their experiences as I feel this thread (as well as the original one from 17Hens about her own trip to Germany and home) have been very informative!

Hugs to all!
[group hug]

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hopingandpraying
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sixgoofykids and 17hens - as I mentioned, my son came home with homeopathic remedies to take (I think some supplements also), but he did not get any more Bionic treatments.
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sixgoofykids
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I would not be better if I had not continued with the Bionic treatments.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Brussels
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Me neither. Just two or 3 weeks on the photon treatment would NEVER have healed me nor my daughter. We took 5 months to heal!

He needs to get the higher potencies of borrelia, like the C30, C60, C100, C200 (all photooned, but separately as each is extremely strong) and I would strongly advise on the K1000, weeks after the C200 is photooned. k1000 has to be INGESTED, in my opinion.

K1000 is the suggestion of dr. W.

Does someone know if Dr. W. uses the C and K dilutions in between??
----------------

Hoping, which other homeopathic products did he take? Would you share? so that I can have a picture in my mind at the exact point where your son stopped treating...

Thank you for sharing!!!

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sixgoofykids
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Dr. W uses - D5, 8, 10,12, 15, 30, 60, 100, 200, all together with the two "live" vials.

After that, he said to use blood.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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hopingandpraying
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Brussels - Sorry, I can't remember what homeopathic remedies my son used and for how long. It was over two years ago and we have moved on to other treatments.
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Brussels
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But he did suggest the K1000 to Gigi, if my memory is good, which is a very high dilution. But he doesn't suggest that to all?

I treated with the C or K after the first series of nosodes from Stauphen Pharma. And I did react to them strong too!
----

Hoping, no problem! I was just curious!
Crossing fingers you will find a solution for your son!!

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sixgoofykids
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Brussels, he didn't recommend anything else to me other than to use blood nosodes.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Mo
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i was reading on hpathy.com that a homeopath finds
helianthis annus helpful in getting rid of babesia.

it is sunflower seed (or oil), and is a powerful tonic to the liver and spleen, which can be dessimated in this desease. he described it to enact cure after the paraite has been treated?
with what, i don't know..

but i wonder if magnified by photons, and after or along with babesia herbs, it could really help.

i have been taking it for now with my artemisinin
(i am not photoning yet)..
and it definately assists by encouraging liver/spleen detox.

not much is written about this remedy that i can find, perhaps it's new in prooving?
i don't see it in hanneman's materia medica.

mo

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sixgoofykids
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If it helps without photons and is homeopathic, I am quite certain it will do more with photons.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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