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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Bartonella question

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Author Topic: Bartonella question
Joe28
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Hi,

I am starting to wonder if I only have Bartonella and not Bartonella and Lyme borreliosis, as I got sick directly after being bitten up by mosquitoes and never had a tick on me.

However, my western blot test was way positive for lyme borreliosis (highest levels my doctor had ever seen). Is it possible certain strains of bartonella can produce a false positive for Lyme borreliosis?

Posts: 18 | From Southern New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canefan17
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You have both

Bart can be more aggressive and cause the majority of your symptoms but you can bet your bottom dollar the spirochetes are underneath it suppressing the immune system and damaging the body.

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scorpiogirl
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Hmmm... I didn't know you can have co-infections w/out having Lyme?? Can you?

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lymeboy
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False positives are a myth. You have Lyme disease. The 2 big clues are that you have Bartonella, AND that you have a positive Lyme test. Don't question it. Treat Lyme.
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Joe28
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thank you for your responses.

I didn't know until recently that you can have co-infections w/out having lyme, but yes it is possible.

The only reason I question the positive western blot test is that it has still not been proven (to my knowledge) that moquitos and other biting insects carry borreliosis. Am I wrong about this?

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lymeboy
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no. It has not been proven that I know of. But you have a positive Lyme test. This is something that many very sick people cannot get. If you wait for the symptoms to become unmanageable, your life will change for the worse in a horrific way.

It is possible to get Bart and babesia without Lyme, but YOU HAVE A POSITIVE WB. Deer ticks are tiny. a nymph could go unnoticed for days. I have been bitten twice that I know of. The town I used to live in was so loaded with ticks, that I would sometimes come inside with my pants covered in little ticks. You don't need a bullseye, you don't need to see the tick bite you. You will never feel it.

If you are choosing to ignore a positive WB, you haven't read up. I HIGHLY recommend going to ILADS:
http://www.ilads.org/

read everything on the "about Lyme" tab. Then read the research tabs, if you have the time.

I hate to see someone choose to let Lyme take control, because of some bad info out there.

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Joe28
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Thank you for your concern. To be clear though, I have been infected with lyme/bartonella for about 8 years now and have been treating both with different methods throughout this time.

Recently I found out co-infections such as bartonella, can be transmitted without the lyme borreliosis being present, so I guess I was just hoping that there's a chance I don't have lyme, and I'm just a blood brain barrier crossing IV treatment away from killing the bartonella in my brain and cerebrospinal fluid. Wishful thinking, I know.

It's just that almost all of my symptoms through these 8 years have been bart symptoms.

Clarithromycin has helped me live 90% symptom free the last two years, probably because of its effectiveness against bart, but this drug seems to be less effective recently, so I'm re-evaluting my options. I have never tried the more popular BBB crossing abx like Levaquin- Rifampin- Zithromax, and am thinking of doing one of them through IV along with a cyst busting abx like Flagyl.

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lymeboy
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I see. Sorry for being so pushy, I just hate to see folks misled. Best of luck to you, if you haven't tried those drugs yet, they could be the key. Levaquin is the best. I took Cipro, which is in the same family and really turned a corner, unfortunately one of many.
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little_olive
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Definitely do the Rifampin! It's the best as far as I'm concerned, because even with things as good as Levaquin and Cipro, the bacteria can become resistant very quickly, even after one pause in treatment. Some doctors don't use it for that reason. Rifampin also treats the cyst form of Lyme.

I've had severe bartonella symptoms (more primary than my Lyme, and I got bart from fleas, not a tick) and for me Rifampin has been AMAZING. Took me from bedbound and on oxygen to up and about and cleaning up the house, over the course of the past nine months. (Probably sooner but I have to take very low doses.) Doxycycline is good to combo it with, those two together will work wonderfully to get into the brain if that's what you're looking for... (Before you ask, yes, Doxy does get bartonella, and quite effectively, with relatively no bug-resistance-forming, but it only stops it from replicating so you need to take something else with it, like Rifampin.) The herxing can be viscious, though, so tread carefully.

Hope this helps and good luck with your bartonella fight! Once you knock it down, other infections may come to the surface (read as: probably) and you will know what to attack next, be it Lyme or otherwise. [Smile]

little olive

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Myalgic encephalomyelitis, 2002 | Viral onset, following Hep B vaccine
Lyme since '06 | Bartonella since '08 (cured) | Mycoplasma pneumoniae since '08
IGeneX: IgM 31IND 34IND 41+ | IgG 39IND 58+ 41+++
IgG deficiencies and MTHFR 677TT mutations

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canefan17
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I think you can have infections that you carry with you for an entire lifetime and a healthy immune system will keep them at bay (no symptoms)

Once infected with borrelia and once the 'ketes have taken down your innate immune system (1st line of defense) the infections you may have been harboring now become active and tend to surface.

This is why we label these other infections as CO-infections to Lyme. (and many of them are from the actual tick bite)

But imo there are plenty of pathogens we didn't get with our tick bite that must now be attended to (HHV, XMRV, EBV, even Bartonella for some)

Bartonella (aka cat scratch fever) is found, at a high rate, in domestic animals. It's not too far fetched to believe many of us contracted Bartonella from our pets. The immune system may not have killed it all and we were left with a dormant form that became active once Lyme suppressed immune function.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16704774

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Joe28
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Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses, I appreciate it.

I have been doing a lot of research about bartonella lately and have come to the conclusion that cat scratch fever and the tick/ biting insects forms of bart are very different diseases.

The strains carried by ticks and other biting insects numbers anywhere from 25 to 400 depending on who you ask, and tend to effect the central nervous system in ways that cat scratch fever does not.

Also, tick/insect borne strains of bart seem to be much more contagious than lyme or other co-infections, with human to human transmission being a greater concern.

Posts: 18 | From Southern New Hampshire | Registered: Aug 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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