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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » rife machine and lyme in cyst form

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Author Topic: rife machine and lyme in cyst form
katrinab
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I bought a doug coil machine recently and the man who makes them advised me to stop taking my abx for lyme and to just use the coil by itself because he said that the abx can cause the lyme bacteria to go into cyst form where the coil cannot reach them and kill them. does anyone believe there might be any truth to these statements?
Posts: 723 | From boston,ma | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Edessajarrue
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Hi Katrinab,

That's a big NO. Did the guy who sold you the Coil machine actually tell you to go off of antibiotics or did he allude to it? Unless he is a medical doctor and you are under his care his advice may be terribly illegal.

Please do some research on the web for frequencies - my own research would point to that there should be a frequency to address the cyst forms and render them inactive. I have not personally found any reference to the frequency needed.

If you do a sweep of frequencies, your odds of hitting the correct one to render the cyst forms inactive/destroyed, I imagine, goes up.

Also, another good reference is the Bob Beck Protocol and his Magnetic coil machine. He researched the original Rife machines and invented a magnetic pulse pulser device to attack the cyst forms that hide in our tissues and lymph nodes.

It is a good reminder that all Rife-like devices are for research purposes and sold for such only. How we choose to utilize these tools to do our own health research is up to our own personal preferences. Unfortunately it's a fine line on what's giving people advice based off of personal experience and medical advice.

Take care!

Edessajarrue

All information given is of a personal nature and based on personal research and experience and is not to be taken as medical advice as I am not a medical doctor.

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Keebler
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Yes, he is correct.

And, yes, before rifing, there are instructions to be off antibiotics. You can read exactly HOW to do that in the Rosner book in the next post.

The chemical break is to allow the cysts to relax and open up, allowing the rife treatment to kill more spirochetes that have come out of hiding.

There is a particular method to that.

Also an important note: Rife treatments for lyme should be only a certain number of minutes and no closer than every twelve days (for lyme frequencies) until much further into treatment.


There are also periods of rotation for abx and rife treatments, for some who choose to do so. It's a bit complex - and each person's routine is individualized.

Of course, do discuss it with your LL doctor. I doubt there is any LL doctor of any degree who does not at least know something about rife. But they can't talk about it unless you first ask.


Yes, Antibiotics (abx) can cause spirochetes to go into cyst form within 20 minutes of the first pill.


Just about any stressor can, including too much heat, activities that exhaust adrenal system, shock itself - whatever that is to YOUR body, and even vibration.

Yes, even VIBRATION. So turn off the bass-boost or theatre-experience functions on your sound systems.

Even anti-spirochetal herbal supplements can cause spirochetes to go into cyst form. (You will still need certain SUPPORT herbs, though. Detox support is vital.)

Spirochetes HATE to be disturbed. When we mess with their calm surroundings, either chemically or by our actions, they retreat deeper to quieter territory.

That is why flagyl is usually prescribed as combination treatment. Flagyl addresses the cyst form.

RIFE does not cause spirochetes to go into cyst form as do abx or some of the herbal formulas.

Now, oral treatments will kill some of the spirochetes. Still, many will recoil into their protective coat of armour.

With oral methods, in addition to flagyl, other actions are helpful to further address the biofilm, the outer coating that prevents abx. from penetrating.

You might want to seek out a holistic LLMD or a LL ND who is ILADS-educated and lyme literate. Several of them are familiar with rife treatments although - if MD - they are not allowed to say so. You can ask questions and they can share experiences of patients they know who have used them.

NDs are allowed to discuss it more freely.
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[ 12-08-2011, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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RIFE MACHINE

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/99081?

Topic: Exactly what is a Rife machine?

==========================

http://www.lymebook.com/lyme-disease-rife-machines-bryan-rosner

Book: Lyme Disease and Rife Machines by Bryan Rosner

-------

http://www.youtube.com

Do a cross search for videos at YouTube for: Rosner, Rife and for Rife, Lyme

==========================

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Lyme_Rife/

Lyme-Rife group on Yahoo

==========================

Local lyme support groups - ask around for those with experience with RIFE.

==========================

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/88778

RIFE Support Discussion Thread here on LymeNet

=========================

Some complementary practitioners incorporate RIFE.

----------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Holistic M.D., etc.

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures, addressing all stages and forms (cyst, biofilm, etc.) - and coinfections;

Knowing that support supplements are important, but NEVER enough alone. And knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL links, and

BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,

RIFE & BIONIC 880 links here, too.

LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail.
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[ 12-08-2011, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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Katrina,

I just posted your question and the link to your thread over on p. 44 of the Rife Discussion thread, asking for replies to be posted here for you. Some may post over there, so you might want to check this link from time to time, too:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/88778/44?#003297

Rife Discussion Thread, p. 44
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Keebler
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http://www.canlyme.com/Sapi_et_al_2011.pdf

Evaluation of in-vitro antibiotic susceptibility of different morphological forms of Borrela bergdorferi

Especially see: p. 4, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph

(the round bodies discussed refer to the cyst form)
-

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jdp710
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katrinab, the coil machine builder is correct that the Doug Coil may not hit the spirochetes until they come out of cyst form. Keebler explains it perfect.

Of course you can do ABX and coil at the same time but you may not see much benefit or very little benefit by adding the Doug Coil while doing ABX.

Also, keep in mind this all takes time to get well.

Also, detox and removing the biotoxins is probably more important than the actual killing part from ABX or Doug Coil in order to feel well. So again, detox, detox, detox.

This may also include mold from the home and mycotoxins from food as well.

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Chinalymie
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Whether or not to stop antibiotics is your decision in conjunction with your LLMD's advice.

One of the reasons that people think that rife doesn't kill cysts is that people who rife tend to experience spring and fall flares for awhile after they are well. This suggests that cysts are still hatching. If you keep rifing eventually this stops. Another thing to consider is that rife likely works by disrupting the proteins in the cell wall of the organism. The thick spherical nature of the cyst wall makes it very hard to jossle and break.

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kimmie
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I bought my coil machine from JS. I never herxed until I stopped the antibiotics and let the cystic form of borrelia reactivate. I then had a major herx, follwed by significant improvement.

The maker of the coil machine is correct. The coil machine BLAST spirochettes, but has no effect on cyst. If you have been on antibiotics recently, you will have cyst. It takes time for them to reactivate and then you can kill them with the coil machine. You picked a very good device. Best wishes and go slowly...

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lymetwister
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Assuming the spirochete does change form, I don't see where or how the frequency would change. The mass has NOT changed.

Also, be careful about what is truth from theory. Unless a drop of an Abx were put on a slide and a spirochete is seen under microscopy to change into another form, then it is only theory. If it is seen, then it is truth or fact.

To my knowledge this has not been done, but it could also be that I'm not aware of it.

Gary

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Marz
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I wish there were statistics for success with rife vs failures.

I don't understand why if these frequencies can travel throughout our enrire body, they wouldn't penetrate cysts, blebs, l-forms as well.

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Keebler
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When a microbe changes form, their "frequency" can change. The cyst is a very protective layer.

Just some thoughts that may help explain.

The Rosner book has better and more thorough detail on this matter. Other information that may help:

Doxycyline (or many other antibiotics) can cause lyme to go into the "cyst" form within 20 minutes of taking the first dose.

Antibiotics are not effective against this form of lyme and it can go into "hiding" and come back later as chronic lyme, harder to treat.

For that reason, many LLMDs also use what is called a "cyst-buster" Rx such as Flagyl:

Re: Flagyl / Tinidazole

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753890

Infect Drug Resist. 2011;4:97-113. Epub 2011 May 3.

Evaluation of in-vitro antibiotic susceptibility of different morphological forms of Borrelia burgdorferi.

Excerpt:

. . . Conclusion

Antibiotics have varying effects on the different morphological forms of B. burgdorferi.

Persistence of viable organisms in round body forms and biofilm-like colonies may explain treatment failure and persistent symptoms following antibiotic therapy of Lyme disease.

---------------------------------

http://www.lymeinfo.net/lymefiles.html

LYME DISEASE MEDICAL LITERATURE SUMMARIES

Bottom of page, links:

* Cystic Form of Bb: An Introduction

Page 4: Table of contents for DIFFERENT FORMS


* Cystic Form of Bb & Other Spirochetes: Advanced

Lyme Disease - Survival in Adverse Condition

30 page pdf -- page 17: cystic form

DIFFERENT FORMS through this work

* Cystic Forms of Spirochetes: A Complete Bibliography, 1905-2010

----------------------------

I mentioned the use of flagyl to address cysts. There are other ways, too. However, even without flagyl, if antibiotics are no longer in the system, the spirochetes are not as likey to revert to cyst form - and some of the cysts will "relax" and "ease open" with the spirochetes coming "back out" where the rife can "reach" them.

I do not do a very good explaining this, so please be sure to read Rosner's book and also from other authors who have studied this.

Other posters here often can explain this better, too.

Some use antibiotics in rotation.
-

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Keebler
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From the discussion thread, page 44:
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/88778/44?#003297

Juli has this reply for you:

I'm not so sure anyone really knows the answer to your question but I'd like to think bacteria cannot hide from rifing given the correct freq and machine.

However, it has been my experience that when I first began rifing I was on abx's and what little I did rife I did not notice any improvements.

When I was no longer taking abx's and began rifing I did notice fast improvements.

(posted by Juli)
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faithful777
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I rife on weeks I take flagyl which breaks up the cysts. I won't go off abx yet.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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D Bergy
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I never could break the cyst form with frequencies no matter what frequency I used. The best I could do is to get it to convert out of cyst form. That was by using the DNA based frequencies. That is what appeared to happen, I can only go by the response to the treatment.

The Rife/Peters Lyme sweep might hit cyst form. But I really cannot tell for certain. I just know it was the most effective frequency method I used. The coil cannot do sweeps so I would use 2016 Hz for Lyme and 832 Hz for Bart.

There is no reason you cannot treat coinfections with your coil while on antibiotics. You can also treat Lyme but you are essentially only going to hit what the antibiotics are going to kill anyway.

Good luck

Dan

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Marz
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Guess I was under the mistaken impression that the spirochete was still the same, but had just pulled a biofilm around itself to protect it from the antibiotic. Just hiding.

I'm wondering if a different frequency is required for the strain that I picked up in Germany. Do different strains require different frequencies?

Or is a spirochete the same no matter what strain--just different in cyst form or bleb form?


After being off of abx for a while Dan, doesn't the cyst just convert back to the spirochete form because it has no threat and eventually can be killed?

Keebler, I appreciate your knowledge about this. Have you gone through rife treatment?

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D Bergy
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There is a European strain that may require a different frequency. I do not recall what that frequency is but I know it was posted somewhere in the Rife thread. I would ask in that thread.

Some frequencies seem to hit based on the shape of the pathogen. Or maybe more accurately, the frequency can only destroy Lyme when it is in a certain form or shape.

My guess why spirochete form is easily killed by frequencies is because it is physically weak in this form. It is long and slender similar to some viruses.

By experimentation, I found that 612 Hz only hits spirochete form. 2016 Hz hits two forms, one being the spirochete form and some other form that is not cyst form but not spirochete form either. Once I found that out, I no longer used 612 Hz as 2016 already takes care of everything that is killed by that frequency and also kills another form that 612 Hz does not.

My goal was to keep the treatment as simple as possible and still get the job done. That is important using a coil because of limited run times and the inability to do sweeps.

2016 Hz is a lower harmonic of Rife's original Syphilis frequency. That is how closely these two pathogens are related. It also provides some proof that Rife knew what he was talking about back in the thirties.

I would guess the European strain of Lyme would respond to a slightly different frequency , but probably not far from 2016 Hz
Varying the 2016 frequency one Hertz at a time would likely provide a killing effect. I would try 10 Hz above and below 2016 Hz and the herx should tell you when you have the right one. You would have to be off of anything that will put Lyme into cyst form to do this.

If the antibiotics are working, I would stick with it for now. Treat the coinfections right now. No reason to put your eggs in one basket, if you have a choice.

Dan

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faithful777
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I use both and feel it is helping. I use an EMEM5A machine. I feel the herx on the second day after rifing.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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