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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Is it possible for my 7 year old to be herxing after only 2 doses of abx?

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Author Topic: Is it possible for my 7 year old to be herxing after only 2 doses of abx?
jenniferk32
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I've suspected that she has lyme disease for about a year now but put off taking her to my LLMD. It sounds selfish, but most of my symptoms were psychiatric and they included extreme lability- sudden over the top emotional outbursts. That plus crippling anxiety and about every other Lyme symptom there is. She does the same thing with the outbursts, so I didn't want to start her on any treatment until I knew I could handle her herxing. I'd experienced her on antibiotics before during an ear infection and it wasn't pretty. But that didn't start until about day four, not as early as it seems to have come on this time.

So I don't know why, but my llmd didn't actually test her or my other daughter for lyme. He tested their CD57 levels. I think he thought the IGENEX test wasn't covered by my insurance...I don't know. But her level was 45, her sister's was fine as I suspected.

The doctor started her on Amoxicillin for dual purposes- she has a strep infection, but also to monitor her for herxing as evidence that she has it.

She's only 2 doses in, but tonight she was crying one second and fine the next, all evening long. I wonder though if it's because she knows she might have it and is just upset about it. Her sister told some kids at school and one of them said she didn't want *M* (my daughter) near her because she thinks she'll give it to her. Both *M* and her sister tried telling the girl that you can only catch it from a tick bite or in her case, while I was pregnant with her. She still refused to go near *M*.

So do you think she could be herxing or is just upset? I never herxed until about 4 days into any new or increased dose of an antibiotic.

*DD name removed**

[ 12-10-2011, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Dogsandcats ]

Posts: 107 | From Hesperia, CA | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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Q: Is she "just upset"?

Anytime a child is upset, there is usually a good reason. They listen to their bodies better than we adults do. Being "upset" is her body communicating with her, and - in turn - then she with you.

Q: Is it possible for my 7 year old to be herxing after only 2 doses of abx?

Absolutely. ONE dose can cause a herxheimer reaction.

Did her LLMD instruct you about LIVER SUPPORT and about ADRENAL SUPPORT. Liver support is vital to help reduce a herx - but also to protecting the liver and the ears.

Has she been assessed for Bartonella. The psychiatric symptoms can be lyme but also they sound a lot like bartonella.

I've read of children with bartonella who had the symptoms as you describe and treatment REALLY helped.
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Dawn2137
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Even if your daughter was old enough to explain it, SHE probably wouldn't even know what was the definite cause of her roller-coaster emotions is.

I can say that although most of my new meds have made me herx on the lovely day 4, I have had a couple that began on day one. I can't believe when it happens, but it does!

Its likely a mix of both for her. Did you start the Amoxi the same day you informed her of possible lyme, or was there a delay?

Regardless, being told that someone doesn't want to be around you because of your illness is hard at any age. (Some people are so ignorant!)

Not wishing for any bad sx(thus pointing to lyme), but am hoping somehow you'll KNOW how to help her best! [group hug]

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Keebler
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Jennifer,

Re-reading your post, I wonder if you might want to delete your daughter's name. Just in case someone reads this, there can't be too many little girls with her name, of her age, in your town. Identification could be made.

About the bully child, she may be scared and that is what is driving her actions, or she may be projecting others' reactions that she's learned from similar situations with adults or TV.

Regardless of why, though, your daughter is literally being bullied by the other child's actions, even if soft spoken, such words are so hurtful and mean. Rejection is just searing.

It is absolutely horrid that the other children respond as they do. I'd say a session of lyme education is sorely needed ASAP. A private session, perhaps with the bully child - or maybe a class session but it should be clear that this is for everyone - and maybe parents, too?

It's a sticky place to be but I'd ask for advise from someone in your area support groups for an advocate from LymeDisease.org .

I suggest someone else do the speaking, even if just with the bully child and her parents - so that it will have a neutral tone. Were this to be about my child, I'm sure I would not be able to have a neutral tone.

www.lymedisease.org

Lyme Disease.org (formerly CALDA, California Lyme Disease Association)
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Dawn2137
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Well, I could edit.. But I'd rather everyone enjoy my first sentence there. Ya know, considering I read over my post about a million times(and did much editing!) and it seemed fine to me!

Brain.. not.. good..

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Keebler
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Dawn,

my suggestion was not for you, or your post - but for jenniferk32's original post of this thread, where a daughter's unique name and age are used, along with a particular city and state.

I just thought it could be identifying factors for anyone in their circle - or even if an insurance company rep. might stumble upon this.
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Dawn2137
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I wasn't talking about what you said, Keebler. I agree on that!

Just making fun of my wonderful sentence structure in the first sentence of my top post.

When my brain is too bad to drive, I should probably avoid all human interaction as well. [Razz]

(Sorry for a little hijacking, jenniferk32!)

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Brussels
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it could be a herx, I suppose! But it could be a reaction to the antibiotic too. Are you giving her binders?

I never liked antibiotic for my daughter. She had lyme since she was 1.

I keep reading one of the commonest symptosm for kids are in the gastrointestinal part.

Abx upsets that even more.

We did try the amoxi route for weeks, only to realize she got worse. So now, I will not give her antibiotic unless I find no other solution.

I don't find abx mild for myself, much less for my child. After that experience, I avoid abx at all times, as I know there are alternatives (like Buhner's herbs, Cowden tinctures, rainforest plants, dr. K's products, rife /KMT, homeopathic nosodes).

What was hard for me was to rebuild her digestive tract after those 5 weeks of abx. The abx really her messed up, despite probiotics. And still, it didn't heal from her recent bite, just made the disease progress. Also probably because of coinfections.

Instead of adding more abx against coinfections, I prefer today to give her many herbs in combination (that also address coinfections), help her clean her body (to avoid strong herxes, heavy metals, clean her lymph, liver,kidney etc) in a complex herbal, supplement and homeopathic protocol and have her live a normal life during treatment.

My daughter was so cranky, crying, nervous, during abx and lyme. I find herbs much better alternative for kids. Even the microcurrent treatment (KMT was fine). Or photon treatment, that we learned after.

Anyway, I guess each one has to go on their trial-error route, I would give cleaning stuff for anyone, since starting from abx or other killing treatments, specially kids.

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Keebler
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Brussels has some excellent points. For more detail on herbal and other nutritional supplements, you might take a look at the articles and books in this thread.

You should also be able to find some good LL ND in your area. Ask your LLMDs office for suggestions. Often, (though, not always), LLMDs will have a good relationship with LL NDs.

And most LLMDs certainly agree on the need for liver support that doubles as herx support.

One important note: Strep, itself, can cause major mood problems.

Since your daughter is also dealing with strep right now, antibiotics may be the best until that has been treated - but certain herbs can make that so much easier to tolerate.

If you have access to a RIFE machine, you have a broader scope.

A LL ND can better guide you regarding strep and what support can go with that.

======================================

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Holistic M.D., etc.

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures;

Knowing that support supplements are important, but NEVER enough alone. And knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL links, and

BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,

RIFE Links

BIONIC 880 links, &

LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail.
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annxyzz
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I herxed to TEARS within one hour of my first dose of doxycycline- broke out in severe chills and got a killer headache and shook all over .

And my pain was worse ... I felt much worse for 18 mos, but by 18 mos the pain was gone.

I felt a STRNG herx with the first doxy tablet !

--------------------
annxyzz

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Keebler
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I've also had numerous bulls eye rashes develop within 20 minutes of taking an antibiotic.
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Lymedin2010
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I did not herx a whole lot on IV Rocephin, nothing AT ALL with Zithro, Biaxin, or Mepron.

Doxy gave me somewhat of a herx in the brain/neck near department. It is known to increase inter cranial pressure & so it did with me. It lasted about a week and then tapered off.

Amoxi on the other hand made me feel like death. From head and neck pressure, to so many twitches, tingling, shortness of breath, anxiety. It is absorbed quickly & mine within 15 min of taking it. It is also flushed out relatively quickly too and has a half life of 1-2 hrs.

I can easily see how it can increase your daughters symptoms. If BB is her primary infection, this should taper off as the full forms convert into cysts: Eventualy many cysts will get destroyed as well, since Amoxi is good at killing both forms.

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