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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Have you had your Immunoglobulin A,G,M tested?

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Author Topic: Have you had your Immunoglobulin A,G,M tested?
momintexas
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Have any of you had your levels tested?

I'm trying to find out how common this is to run in Lyme patients.

Thanks.

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susank
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MIT - I don't think folks understand the importance of these tests/knowing their Imm. levels.

Everyone should ask to have the tests run.

If your doctor won't - then it appears the tests can be ordered from the online lab:
www.Privatemdlabs.com

For the test info - type in Immunoglobulin - and it appears the test/s MIT and I refer to is listed there as IGA, IGG and IGM Quantitative serum.
That is the same thing as "Total" right, MIT.

The testing lab is Labcorp so they must be the same.

Cost of the test: $60.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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momintexas
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Hi susank,

Yes, that's the testing I'm talking about. I'm just wondering how common it is for Lyme patients to have this test done.

I have a feeling, it's not very.

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susank
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I don't understand why folks are seemingly not interested in educating themselves about this.

Maybe they cannot handle something else to think about.

All of this is so overwhelming. Co-infections.
Opportunistic bacteria/viruses. Toxins. Mold.

When you are sick it is so hard to know what to do - what to concentrate on. And the "now what" and "what next" aspect.

To ask the group about the Immunoglobulin testing: How many of you have doctors that have ordered these tests for you?

I'll bet the answer is not very many.

As I mentioned above - folks can order the tests themselves through PMDL for $60.

Ordering the tests online and going to Labcorp could not be made any easier - and the results directly to you in days.

If out of range results - that should get a doctor's attention. For further testing - ie the subclasses - and related tests.

With PMDL no insurance is involved. If further testing is suggested - if you have insurance - then ask your doctor to write the orders - for the more expensive subclass tests.

I have learned that I have to ask for many tests to be run. Some doctors just flat out won't order some tests. Thank goodness for the ability now to be able to order then online.

I wish I had known about this years ago.

Folks - if you are Immunoglobulin G deficient - you need to know - and do something about it.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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poppy
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Maybe someone who understands this should describe the reasons why it is important---on this thread.

Would it be correct to say that the only treatment if IVIG?

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showmemom
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DS, 12, had these tests run before we knew it was Lyme and friends. His IGG levels were in the toilet and we proceeded with IVIg. For six weeks, it was wonderful! After that, he crashed, developed the Bartonella rash, bulls eye rash, etc.

We are starting with a new immunologist next month. I'm hoping we can get IVIg again, and this time get it approved by insurance. Very expensive! His LLMD never ordered these tests, only a doctor that specializes in PANDAs kids.

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sammy
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My LLMD ordered these tests as part of my initial work-up before diagnosis. They were mixed in with so many other results they were not significant to me at that time.

Others probably had this testing done also if they would take the time to look closely enough at their initial lab results. I'm sure my LLMD is not the only one that orders that test.

Now things have changed, years have gone by, results have changed. My body has stopped making the immunoglobulins. Now I need IVIG. So these tests are now significant to me.

Thankfully, most people make adequate immunoglobulins. That's why immunodeficiencies are rare.

But as Susan pointed out, if you've not been tested and are still sick with these infections despite aggressive treatment. This testing might be something to ask your doctor about.

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Jennifer70
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Ive never heard of this test,and never been tested for it. I'll look into getting this test, thank you.

--------------------
Psalm 119:50
My comfort in my suffering is this: Your promise preserves my life.

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susank
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If I understand this correctly - there are some people who make zero Imm-G. (rare) And those that make very few. Some just make "not enough". (me)

If one makes no Imm-G - what do the antibody tests look like? ie the IGG on a western blot for example? If no Imm-G - then no IGG response, right?

Or if deficient (makes some but not the normal amount)- one would think that would effect any test that checks for IGG antibodies. ??

I "think" that deficient also could mean the G's you make are not as strong of fighters as they should be.

So subnormal ImmG levels ie Hypogammaglobulinemia/CVID makes one more susceptible to infections - and also having a harder time fighting infections.

My Imm-G levels are subnormal. My Imm-M are low end of normal range. I wonder if that is reflected on my western blot - ie more IGM than IGG "reactions"?

Could effect co-infection testing as well?

And of course make fighting any of them more difficult.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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sammy
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Exactly susan!

If you don't make IgG, it is not going to show up on any repeat western blot tests or coinfection tests. You have to use alternative testing methods like PCR, blood cultures, etc...

Having low IgG will also make you more susceptible to developing infections and you will have a much harder time fighting the infections even with powerful antibiotics. This is why IVIG treatments are so important for people with immunodeficiencies.

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susank
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Further - I wonder if we could compare:

Folks that have had their Total Imm's tested with -normal results - and what their tick tests results are - vs

Folks tested and have subnormal Total Imm's - and what their tick tests results are.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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momintexas
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Here's where my concerns are though....

the IGG total number has dropped all 3 times it has been tested. BUT.....symptoms are greatly improved. Even catching colds and flu now and able to get over them with no setbacks once well.

Feeling better now than in the last 5 years or so.

I'm trying to figure out if there is a connection between low IGG's, chronic infection, long term abx.

One Dr has said IVIG, and another has said to go by symptoms. If the patient is feeling good and not sick all the time, to let it be and eventually as the body regains strength - those numbers will come back up.

But they come back very slowly.

Very confused by all of this.

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sammy
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momintexas, you know the patient best.

If you feel that they are truly better and do not need any more interventions you could do a trial to see how they do on their own.

If they start getting sick all the time then you will know for sure that they need IVIG. If they stay well, then they are really well!

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Razzle
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Before I knew I had Lyme, one doctor ordered these tests in an attempt to figure out what was wrong with me.

My results were normal total IgM and total IgG, but my subclass IgG-2 was elevated, and my total IgA was very high.

I have yet to encounter any MD who can explain why my total IgA is so high. It is almost twice the upper limit of the normal range.

My current LLND believes these numbers are caused by my insane number of sensitivities and allergies, and he diagnosed me with immune deficiency because my T-Cells (especially CD-8 T-Cells) are very, very low despite the high IgA and IgG-2. And I get infections (colds/flu and skin infections) very easily.

But in my case, I don't know if IvIg would do anything helpful because my Ig levels are normal or high.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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MADDOG
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Hi
No, my goblins quit coming arround,but I bet they have lyme allso.

MADDOG

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imagine2
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Mit, my IGG's are subnormal and subclasses 1 and 3 are subnormal. but my immunologist says not low enough for IVIG, so she is monitoring them every 3 months to keep an eye on them in case they drop too low.

My daughter, however, has CVID and is on subQ treatment.

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momintexas
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Thanks for all of the replies.

IGA and IGM are well within normal range. It's just IGG that's low. (Subclass 1&2)

B cell function is normal

T Cell (phytohemagglutinin) is slightly low.

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susank
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MIT - I only find references to B and T cells from a bone marrow biopsy from two years ago.

FWIW: quote:

There is a mixed population of maturing myeloid cells, B-cells and T-cells. .......
The B-cells are polytypic and the T-cells show no pan-T-cell antigen deletion.

unquote

I don't have the foggiest idea what this means or how it could relate.

------

In regards to Abx and the immune system:

Do you have the book, "Insights Into Lyme Disease Treatment"? If you do - please read in the general areas of pages 188 and 205-206.

I wonder if I am permitted to mention here the names of the doctors to which I refer/found in the book?

I will see if they have websites with the Abx info.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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smiles132002
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I'm not sure if this applies. I've had the igg and igm testing, but I don't recall the results. My LLMD goes by the C4a and the C3a which are component tests that measure the level of inflamation and infection in the immune system. We also use the cd57 as a lyme test to see progress on current meds.

I started doing IVIGG a year in a half ago and for the first time (in November) my immune level functions came back normal. My cd57 is still low (39) but the IVIG is making a huge difference in the level at which I am able to function and we believe it's maintaining the dormancy of the co-infections.

Since I work full time and I can only infuse on the weekends I go to the hospital 1 weekend every 4-6 weeks for 12 hours a day. Most people do the infusion over 4 days, but I don't have that kind of time. I also can't infuse any faster than at a rate of 60 so 120 units takes me about 12 hours a day. Generally I start the infusion and within 2 hours I am passed out and do not wake up until the end of the last bottle. It's completely exhausting. That being said after about a week (yes I get minor headaches following) I am able to work full time and do extra things too.

I try to stretch out the infusions to every 6 weeks week but I can for sure feel when I need to go back and get more again. This has completely changed my life. I have done two rounds of rocephin and 3 months of tygacil and also been in treatment for 6 years. My neurologist wrote for neuropathy and it was approved (so far) by my insurance. IVIG is not approved for the treatment of lyme.

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susank
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(corrected/edited post)

I am still trying to figure out what IVIG can and cannot do.

ie why it seems to "neutralize" some pathogens and not others.

I found again some interesting info:

http://tinyurl.com/3g5emlk

(thanks Sammy from months ago - the tinyurl)

But this time look at pages 264 on.

"Therapeutic Immunity" - book and/or chapter by Kark Frank Austen.

Chapter 19.
"Intravenous Immunoglobulin Therapy".
Francisco Bonilla and Raif Geha

Look at the pathogens mentioned.

Why not Lyme?

Further:

http://www.cidpusa.org/ivig.html

Also Idiiotopes. Some not attached to antigens?
Again - why not to LD/Bart/Babs etc?

More - this one mentions Mycoplasma.

http://www.sciguru.com/newsitem/10962/New-insights-anti-microbial-and-anti-inflammatory-mechanisms-IVIG

[ 01-02-2012, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: susank ]

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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susank
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Lyme and IGG:

http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2008/12/chronic-lyme-and-poor-igg-response.html

Very informative.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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momintexas
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Thanks for the info SusanK.

As far as responding to a Western Blot - what if there is response both IGG and IGM even though total IGG level is low?

There is also response to coinfection both IGG and IGM.

I'm having a hard time dealing with IVIG being the only treatment - especially when the patient is doing so well.

I'm just wondering if this is another test that Lyme skews the results on.

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susank
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How many times have you been tested for Lyme and Co?

On the WB - the number of reactive IGM bands vs IGG?

You can see I have more IGM bands.

I still wonder about my Bart test with IGG of 40. (Since Igenex changed their reporting of co's last year?).

I will continue on IVIG - I am glad I have that option. I took a three month break - have started back - second infusion this go-around this week.

I am not doing well. I feel non-funtional.

I did searches using words, "antibiotics supress/weaken the immune system". What I read scared me. Suffice to say that IVIG will be my "drug" of choice.

I felt the opposite a few months ago after re-reading about Abx treatment for rheumatic disease/MS etc.

FWIW - I took low dose Doxy for years (but not recent years) for my dry eyes. I cannot even remember why. But I think partly for its anti-inflammatory properties. Which - according to some - means immune suppression.

(I have not read what specific parts of the IS is suppressed. That all seems rather vague.
Do they (?) include IGG in that? Suppressed directly or indirectly?)

I know my IGG levels were at the lowest after a course of Zith. (pre-IVIG).

On IVIG my IGG levels steadily rose. With the exception of the last IGG total test - when I had added/taken a month of a higher dose of Doxy for a challenge test.

My IGG level rose 3 points. Perhaps that meant nothing - Abx no factor.

Odd that on that challenge test I "lost" some bands.

Thought: Having Lyme can skew the results of Lyme tests? Geez - that just came to me.
I am a little slow at these things.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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ichelp73
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Just had my first IVIG infusion last week. I feel better than I have felt in months! I've been on agressive IV antibiotic therapy for a year. Was on orals for 2 years prior. I was really getting ready to throw in the towel.

Been treating Bart, Babs, and Lyme. I am so excited - have hope for the first time in (heck -I don't know how long...)

My total IgG was low as well as my IgG subclasses 1 and 3. My doc thinks my immune deficiency is genetic based upon some tests he ran.

Please.... If you have not done so - have these tests run.

Total IgG, IgM, IgA, IgE
IgG Subclass 1,2,3,4

I wish I had done this months - years ago.

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smiles132002
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My doctor believes that ivig (for me) is maintaing my co-infections-I tested positive with igenex for all three WA 1 babs, bart, and erchilcia, and I also did a fry test that showed something but not yet defined in addition.

IVIG is very hard for me to do. I get headaches and I pass out an hour or two into the infusion and infuse it over 12 hours total. It makes for a really long day, but I went from being on disability to working full time and now I am doing extra work.

I also did IV rocephin for the first 6 months I did IVIG along with orals. I still take orals and my lyme tests have not budged, but my level of functioning, my brain, and my energy have all improved. That being said I still have "bad" days and can feel when symptoms start to return.

I am convinced that I would not be so functional without the ivig. It really has changed my life. I even am able to live on my own.

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sammy
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I wanted to point out, those of you like smiles being treated for neuropathy and other neurological diseases receive much higher doses of IVIG (2g/kg).

Standard dose for immunodeficiencies is 400mg/kg, some doctors will increase this dose a little based on patient response.

Smiles, I saw your hefty dose of 120g and was like "wow" that is so much more than I take. I have to beg my doctor to increase my dose each month when my trough levels remain off the chart low and I still struggle with fevers and constant infections...

I have neuropathy also, makes me wonder if I will ever reach a high enough dose to help with my neuro symptoms.

I am currently hoping that it will help enough [Smile]

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momintexas
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Susank wrote: "FWIW - I took low dose Doxy for years (but not recent years) for my dry eyes. I cannot even remember why. But I think partly for its anti-inflammatory properties. Which - according to some - means immune suppression. "

Does that mean - some think Doxy will suppress your immune system or am I reading that wrong?

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momintexas
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I found this site and info - thought it was interestng.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3099256/

Note the graph that talks about Secondary Causes Hypogammaglobulinemia
"There are numerous causes of secondary hypogammaglobulinemia, including the effects of selected medications, malnutrition, burns, gastrointestinal loss, nephrotic syndrome, and malignancy (Table 2). Secondary causes can be divided into 2 categories: increased loss or reduced production. Before a diagnosis of primary immunodeficiency is made, the potential contribution of these factors should be considered."

Also, note the chart
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3099256/table/T2/#TFN3

Note where it says Medications - in that list - anti-malarials are included.

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susank
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I think Doxy is considered a DMARD.
If that is true - and effects the IS - I don't know how/what part etc.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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sammy
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Diagnosing you with an immunodeficiency requires more than just somewhat low IgG levels. I'm sure your doctor will take into account your complete medical history, your current medical condition, the results of you vaccine challenges, the results of your extensive lab tests.

Here's what they say about CVID in the article momintexas found: "Serum IgG levels reduced by more than 2 SDs below the mean, accompanied by deficiencies in IgA and/or IgM, suggest common variable immunodeficiency.1,7,11 Usually the IgG level is less than 400 mg/dL; 70% of patients will have very low or absent IgA content.12 Documentation of impaired production of specific antibodies or poor response to vaccines is fundamental for this diagnosis. Peripheral B-cell numbers may be reduced or normal. CD4+ T-cell numbers may be reduced, CD8+ T-cell numbers may possibly be increased, and reduced T-cell proliferation to mitogens or antigens is common.1,11,12

susan, doxy and mino are great at reducing inflammation. That is why they've been added into the DMARD group.

Unfortunately, rheumatologists have not embraced their use and still cling to the more toxic immune suppressing meds that you are thinking of like methotrexate.

http://arthritis-research.com/content/pdf/ar3491.pdf

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momintexas
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The other thing I have been told in regards to poor response to vaccines is that if you already have an infection - you are more likely to not create antibodies.


I have an appt to get a 2nd opinion in a month. Anxious to hear what they say.

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susank
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corrected: Bacteria!

I think we are all posting at the same time.

The question of Abx and the IS has been bugging me since my last post. Like maybe
the suppression is not a bad thing. Depending on what is being suppressed.

A quick search I found this:
http://intimm.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/4/281.abstract

This seems to indicate suppression of IGE. I think that could be a good thing. My IGE levels are very high. I wish they had given the IGG IGA levels.

Conflict:
I think that I read that Abx can increase allergies. I wish the "gurus" would be more specific. What Abx? All possibly?

Now - I think it was Dr Brown's (roadback.org)premise to use Abx at low dose (ie Mino/Doxy) - pulsed. That folks with rheumatic illness have - as he phrased it "an allergy to (I remembered!) bacteria"!!

I think Dr. Brown was a genious BTW.

I think those of us concerned about immune suppression and Abx etc would like some answers.

IGG/IGA vs IGE. Tetracyclines vs others.
Low dose vs high dose long-term.

Assuming suppression means Immunoglobulin involvement.

[ 01-03-2012, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: susank ]

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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momintexas
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I found a website that had information about testing while the patient had an infection. It said to test levels when the infection was gone.

Of course, now I can't find the site. I have it bookmarked on my other computer and I will post in the morning.

The abx and immune suppression is bothering me too.

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momintexas
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"Reduced levels of 1 or more subclasses may be found in healthy individuals, making precise clinical interpretation challenging. If performed, proper evaluation of IgG subclasses should include measurements on 2 separate occasions at least 1 month apart while the patient is free of infections."

taken from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3099256/

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sammy
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Testing the patient twice, one month apart when free from infections would be ideal but what about those super sick PID patients that are so immunocompromised that they can't get rid of their infections!

Obviously their doctors know that they are never going to have a window of wellness that lasts 2-3mo long to test and retest. This is true in my case. I had been sick for years, not a day of wellness.

My doctor tested me multiple times over several months, he did the vaccine challenges, he knew my past medical history, he knew my current medical condition.

Seeing how sick I am now and how much I need the IVIG, my doctor could not wait around for my infections to go away before diagnosing me with CVID. They had already proven that they are here to stay, my immune system had already proven that it is not capable of fighting them even with the help of powerful antibiotics. I needed help. Clearly something more was wrong.

For me, the infections were winning. Hopefully the IVIG will help turn things around and give me a better chance for a future.

Momintexas, maybe since you are already doing so well you don't really need IVIG? Maybe you have time to wait, watch closely, and see what happens. Seek a second and third opinion if necessary, find someone that listens and answers your questions. No one should judge you. You are an adult deciding for your own care.

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momintexas
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I really appreciate everyone's comments and links and info. Thank you so much.

Sammy - I'm so sorry to hear you have been sick for so long. I agree with you about the testing window and that's why I posted that paragraph.

I think in some cases, it's very clear cut.

I am scheduled for a 2nd opinion next month.

I just feel as if I have a lot of unanswered questions about all of this and far too much uncertainty.

The levels did not begin to decline until put on Doxy - I still think this is directly related.

Dr told me no, but I still can't shake that feeling.......

After reading up on what susan & sammy posted about it being a DMARD makes me wonder even more......

I don't want to do IVIG while everything is going so well, but I'm also afraid of the level dropping more and infection coming along.

But if the culprit behind it really is due to Doxy, I need to know that as well.

Hopefully the other Dr will have these answers.

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susank
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Today was IVIG day.

I tried to sleep through most of it.

I asked the doctor about Abx and IGG.

If I understood correctly; for folks with CVID -Abx can lower IGG.

Perhaps I understood that if/when Abx lowers IGG levels - one can counter that by slightly increasing the IVIG dose.

Please don't take this as "gospel" or medical advice.

I don't have two brain cells to rub together even when fully awake - and could have this all wrong.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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susank
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Idea. Re: Abx and possible immune suppression.

Has anyone ordered tests - or is in the process of ordering tests from TARCI?

(The Arthritis Research Center Inc). (I think was founded by the late Dr Brown).

I tested MycoP with them a couple of years ago.

I called to get another test kit a few months ago - did not get one. Called again - still did not get one. TARCI was in the middle of moving so I think my requests were lost.

Anyway - both times I talked with Dr. C.V. herself. I was so surprised she would take the time to talk to me and explain things.

I wish I had thought to ask her about Abx and the IS. I feel sure she has the answers.

So.......if anyone has/is planning to test with TARCI - perhaps give her a call?

I would but I am not smart enough to understand her. I also have a hard time with her otherwise lovely accent.

She is very kind, helpful and is an Abx/IS genius. (Read her credentials).

TARCI offered the following tests: (in 2009).

Rheumatoid Factor
Kunkel-y-globulin
Mycoplasma Ab/Elisa:
Hominis
Fermentans
Salivarium
Pneumoniae

Mycoplasma Antigen (PCR)
ASO Titer (non culture)

C. Pneumoniae Ab/Elisa
C.P. IGM/IGG
C. Reactive Protein

(The Kunkel test really interested me).

Doctor signature required as per most labs.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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susank
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I found some info:

http://globalmedicaldiscovery.com/key-scientific-articles/non-antibiotic-properties-of-Tetracyclines-as-anti-allergy-and-asthma-drugs

"IGG,IGA,IGM did not decrease".

But what dose etc?

Researching because my allergies are really bad and my IGE keeps elevating. (Odd - this seems to have started when I stopped my daily low dose Doxy) - (for dry, painful eyes).

I am so tempted to start back on low dose Doxy to see if it really could help against allergies.

I would like more info/answers.
If LDD (low dose Doxy) helps against allergies and also other inflammations - but does not measurably lower/negatively effect IGG etc - then I am very interested.

I wonder if other types of Abx have the "pathway" that the Tetras have in regards to IGG.

Perhaps the other Abx'es are the ones thought to possibly be the cause of an overall increase in allergies in the general population.??

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Razzle
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The increase in allergies from abx I thought was due to the loss of tolerance in the gut due to the killing of the probiotic strains and increase in yeast/candida... I could be wrong on this, though...

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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Bitten in Bergen
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Hi momintexas - your post could not have been more timely. My husband was diagnosed with chronic lyme/babesia last year and has been through rounds of doxy and is now on megadoses of amoxicillin. He's also on malarone that will be increased this week to 2 tabs a day instead of one. We saw no change with doxy, slight improvement with malarone, and slight improvement with amox.

Interestingly though, he has low immunoglobulin levels. His LLMD was all set to send us to an immunologist - guess he is not knowledgeable about the causes of secondary hypogammaglobulinemia. Perhaps that's what is going on with my husband.

He just stopped the doxy last month, but as I mentioned before, he is still on malarone and will actually be increasing it. We certainly will NOT take him off it just so an immunologist can see if maybe that is what is causing it.

Can't thank you enough for the NIH link you provided - I'm going to check husband's levels and see how they fit with the recommended thresholds for IVIG recommendations. Otherwise, plan to just sit tight for now and not overreact.

BTW - did you have your 2nd opinion yet?

<<<hugs>>>>

Thanks so much for your great information!!


quote:
Originally posted by momintexas:
I really appreciate everyone's comments and links and info. Thank you so much.

Sammy - I'm so sorry to hear you have been sick for so long. I agree with you about the testing window and that's why I posted that paragraph.

I think in some cases, it's very clear cut.

I am scheduled for a 2nd opinion next month.

I just feel as if I have a lot of unanswered questions about all of this and far too much uncertainty.

The levels did not begin to decline until put on Doxy - I still think this is directly related.

Dr told me no, but I still can't shake that feeling.......

After reading up on what susan & sammy posted about it being a DMARD makes me wonder even more......

I don't want to do IVIG while everything is going so well, but I'm also afraid of the level dropping more and infection coming along.

But if the culprit behind it really is due to Doxy, I need to know that as well.

Hopefully the other Dr will have these answers.


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Larae30
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My LLMD tested for them in his initial testing:

Immunoglobulins:
IgG = Normal
IgA = Normal
IgM = High

I am worried about the IgM being high and not sure what it means? He said at my next appt he is going to do further testing into it...

--------------------
Treating lyme, bart and babs

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Larae30
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anyone?

--------------------
Treating lyme, bart and babs

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sammy
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Larae, try not to worry. Wait and see what the new test results reveal. Then talk with your doctor. If the results are still abnormal they should give you a referral to see an immunologist for a thorough evaluation.

~Hugs

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Larae30
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I got scared because when I google about it, it mentions multiple myeloma etc... My LLMD acted like I shouldn't be worried, but how can I not be when the first things I find are about cancer?!

--------------------
Treating lyme, bart and babs

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momintexas
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Larae - don't quote me on this - but I THINK an elevated IGM can indicate recent infection?

Bitten in Bergen - does your husband get sick a lot?

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Larae30
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Yeah, I'm hoping it just means that I have a recent infection load... He said I'm not the only one with that elevated immunoglobulin, I am just so good at worrying ha

--------------------
Treating lyme, bart and babs

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Bitten in Bergen
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quote:
Originally posted by momintexas:
Larae - don't quote me on this - but I THINK an elevated IGM can indicate recent infection?

Bitten in Bergen - does your husband get sick a lot?

Hi momintexas - no - husband rarely gets sick. His IgG was normal. Low IgA, very low IgM.
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momintexas
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Hi BIB, I did go for a second opinion and was told that the IgG levels weren't low enough to warrant IVIG.

I was also told that if the patient isn't constantly sick, it could mean that they just have low numbers in general.

He told me some people always have low numbers and that's just they way they are. If there isn't constant infections occurring, then the body is able to hold things at bay.

This Dr also told me not to test the IgG numbers as often as we have been. He said they can fluctuate easily.

I really don't know what to think about any of it. For now, we are just continuing as is.

Things are holding steady, so at this time, I don't see pursuing IVIG.

Once again though....there are far too many gray areas in all of this. I wish it was easier to get answers for all of us.

[ 02-22-2012, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: momintexas ]

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Bitten in Bergen
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Hi momintexas - thanks - I needed that. Glad to hear things didn't escalate for you. Whew.

I'm going to have husband visit our lyme-aware doctor (the one who diagnosed us all) to see what she has to say. If nothing else is wrong, will probably pursue some immune supplements (glutathione? I now forget) and/or additional testing (methylation pathways, etc.).

Just hate all these ups and downs. Every time this happens I feel like I'm holding my breath until "the other shoe drops."

Thanks for listening!

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