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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Which meds hardest on liver? Plus best liver support?

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Author Topic: Which meds hardest on liver? Plus best liver support?
Splashi1
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I have been wondering which medication puts the biggest toxic load on the liver. Is it Nystatin, Azithromycin, Clarythromycin, Mepron or Hydroxychloroquinne or any combination of these?
Thank you!

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MattH
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Two activities that have help me are saunas and Castor Oil Packs. Both have been discussed extensively on the site. The saunas are good because the body does not have to use the liver exclusively to get rid of toxins. This decreases some of the toxic load on the liver. Obviously several saunas a week are probably needed.

Castor Oil Packs really helped me get my liver enzymes down. I take Milk Thistle three times a day but the liver enzymes still got in the abnormal range, these two approaches have really helped.

All the Best, MattH

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trubeee
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Does anyone know if you can you take milk thistle along with Mepron?
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Keebler
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Milk Thistle with Mepron?

Usually, it is best to never take liver support at the exact same time. Any liver support that helps the liver work better, filtering out "stuff" can also mean it can filter on out medicines too quickly and lessen the therapeutic dose.

Some LLMDs tell patients to avoid milk thistle all together when on mepron. However, it seems that many tell them to just take it hours apart.

Some suggest other liver support besides milk thistle but, still, hours apart. More detail below.

You should ask YOUR LLMD their thoughts.

There are many links about liver support in the Tinnitus thread below.

Also see the detail about ototoxic meds. They, too, can be hard on the liver.

Generally, if you go to the pharmaceutical insert (find it online) and read about the Rx, if is says stuff about the liver, that is a clue.

Still, remember that lyme, babesia, et.al. are all very toxic to all our tissue, cells, organs, etc. Many meds are stressful to the liver, kidneys, but that is somewhat due to war going on with the infections.

Liver support is absolutely vital, IMO, and can really help a great deal for most Rx.

Start 3/4 of the way down:
-----------

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801

Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS
-

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MattH
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Keebler,

Thanks for the great resource.

All the Best, MattH

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Keebler
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-
Matt,

I forgot to say that your reply was spot on. Caster oil packs can be very helpful and that is not included in that ND thread. If you want, be sure to add that there, eh?

Thanks. -- Oh, wait. I did not post the ND thread about, but the Tinnitus one.

Splashi, more detail here:

-------------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc.

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures;

Knowing that support supplements are important, but NEVER enough alone. And knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL links, and

BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,

RIFE links,

BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and

LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail.
-

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trubeee
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Keebler, I don't see the links on liver support.
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lululymemom
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We learned the hard way that Mepron can be extremely hard on the liver. You should monitor your enzymes frequently when you are on this. It only takes a few weeks for your liver to take a heavy hit with this one.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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randibear
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i would think that anything that causes die off would be hard on the liver.

i'd go with milk thistle.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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steve1906
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Splashi1, I found these on the internet for you:

Nystatin
Many people are led to believe that Nystatin, the famous anti-candidiasis drug, is perfectly safe with no side effects but I have observed liver toxicity in many Nystatin patients. These patients develop skin problems, sugar intolerance, alcohol intolerance, and other liver-toxicity problems.

The most unusual case I witnessed was a young lady whose blood vessels started swelling and protruding. These symptoms subsided several days after she stopped taking Nystatin.
http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?id=140
_________________________________________________
Azithromycin

Hepatotoxicity - Abnormal liver function, hepatitis, cholestatic jaundice, hepatic necrosis, and hepatic failure have been reported, some of which have resulted in death. Discontinue azithromycin immediately if signs and symptoms of hepatitis occur.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/azithromycin-tablets.html
_________________________________________________

Clarithromycin
can be hard on the liver. Your health care provider will probably watch your lab results carefully for any sign of liver damage. Let your health care provider know if your urine gets dark or your bowel movements get light-colored.
http://www.thebody.com/content/art6016.html
_________________________________________________

Mepron
Lab tests, including complete blood cell counts and liver function tests, may be performed while you use Mepron. These tests may be used to monitor your condition or check for side effects. Be sure to keep all doctor and lab appointments.
http://www.drugs.com/cdi/mepron.html
_________________________________________________
Hydroxychloroquinne
Side effects
Medicines and their possible side effects can affect individual people in different ways. The following are some of the side effects that are known to be associated with this medicine. Just because a side effect is stated here, it does not mean that all people using this medicine will experience that or any side effect.

Disturbances of the gut such as diarrhoea, nausea, vomiting or abdominal pain.
Headache.
Skin rashes.
Itching (pruritus).
Visual disturbances, such as blurred vision or abnormal colour vision.
Disorders of the front layer of the eye (cornea).
Damage to the retina of the eye.
Change in skin and hair colour.
Hair loss (alopecia).
Fits (convulsions).
Hearing disturbances, eg ringing in the ears (tinnitus) or hearing loss.
Anxiety, confusion, hallucinations or strange or abnormal thoughts.
Weakening of muscles.
Changes in the electrical signals in the heart.
Weakening of the heart muscle.
Liver disorders.
Disturbance in the normal numbers of blood cells in the blood.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/seniors-health/medicines/plaquenil.html

_________________________________________________

--------------------
Everything I say is just my opinion!

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nefferdun
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For liver support, alpha lipoic acid is very good. It has saved peoples lives when they were poisoned. It is second to glutathione for detoxing.

One book, the Lyme Solution, says not to take it with atovaquone. but I have not read that anywhere else including Dr. S' book on babesia. He lists it for liver support.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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fatigued15
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We take Zhang Hepa F. No. 2 for liver support. Helped bring down elevated liver enzyme levels
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steve1906
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Interactions with Atovaquone (Mepron)

Alpha-Lipoic Acid
Bromelain
Ethylenediaminetetraacetic Acid (EDTA)
Magnesium
Vitamin H (Biotin)
Vitamin K
Zinc

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/atovaquone-001062.htm

--------------------
Everything I say is just my opinion!

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Keebler
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Steve,

Great links. Thanks so much.
-

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Keebler
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Trubee,

3/4 of the way down in the Tinnitus thread are some liver support notes - and then peppered throughout - and ALSO in the naturopathic thread (linked above).

A couple things from the Tinnitus thread:

NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine)

This, from a protocol for Chlamydia Pneumonia (Cpn) which is a similar chronic stealth infection. This treatment protocol is also similar to that of chronic lyme.

This is what one of the protocol authors says about the power of NAC to help protet the liver:
--------------

http://www.cpnhelp.org/liverprotection

Dr. Stratton Cautions on Protecting the Liver

. . . "Surprisingly, the only anti-chlamydial agent that did not cause hepatitis in some patients was NAC. In fact, NAC is recognized as being protective.

See attached references.

My conclusion is that NAC should be the first agent in an anti-chlamydial regimen and should be a constant part of the therapy for this protective effect, not to mention its effect against elementary bodies.

. . . more at link. with some discussion.

================

http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art1109&zTYPE=2

N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) May Protect Against Meningitis-Related Hearing Loss

Excerpt:

NAC and the other antioxidant each individually protected the spiral ganglion in the cochlea and exerted a number of other benefits to the ear that explained their protective effect. . . .

==================

http://www.tinnitusformula.com/infocenter/articles/treatments/itf_05.aspx

1 Ben Balough, MD is the Chief of Neurotology at the Naval Medical Center San Diego. Dr. Baloughs presentation was on

Antioxidants: Their Role in tinnitus.

Dr. Balough stated that antioxidants such as N-Acetyl Cysteine and Acetyl-L-Carnitine are very helpful in preventing hearing loss due to noise exposure or ototoxic medications.

He says they are not helpful in treating tinnitus AFTER it has developed.

---

[poster's interjection: if one has an ongoing toxic infection, toxic heavy metal load, and needs to be on potentially ototoxic Rx, then, even if one may not have tinnitus resolve by taking these measures, they could sure keep things from getting even worse.

And, there's always the chance for improvement all the way around if all matters are being addressed.]
-

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Splashi1
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Thanks everyone for the great input! I have had itchy skin for the past few years and had been told that it's due to an allergy. That was before my diagnosis though.

My LLMD checked my liver enzymes after the itching got considerably worse (I was on Mepron, antibiotics, Nystatin and Plaquenil) and it was then that we found that the enzymes were high.

I was not getting the liver enzymes checked as a matter of course, during treatment.

I went off the medications and was tested again and the irritation had subsided to a great degree but I still had/have the itching and some discomfort in the liver area.

After looking at the results of the test, my doctor said, "I think that it's more than likely from the antibiotics, and not the Mepron, so I think you should continue with Mepron."

I was feeling very ill on the day of my appointment, and did not question this.I am wondering how many people get their liver enzymes checked while they are taking Lyme meds and what they do if they start to go up? Do you go off meds or lower the dosages?

I feel as though a door may have closed for me because antibiotic treatment was helping.

I'm also concerned that my doctor may not be giving me the best advice with regard to continuing Mepron. He didn't mention anything about side effects from Nystatin (which he wants me to continue along with Mepron) 'nor did he suggest checking enzymes while I take them.

This doctor sees many, many Lyme patients, (and has helped many)so I don't want to second guess him, but naturally, I do want to keep my liver as healthy as possible as well as get better.


I am planning to start caster oil packs and other liver support (I am looking for a sauna)

I guess my question is, do I continue with the Mepron and then ask him about it at my next visit, or should I wait until I see him again? I usually have acupuncture with him every 2 weeks or so, so I'll be seeing him in a week and a half.

If I wait, could anyone give advice as to how to approach this with him, other than printing out the literature on this thread? Do I tell him that I must have my liver checked often?

Thank you again for your feedback!It is much appreciated!

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steve1906
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Mepron is tough on the liver, I don't understand why your doctor wouldnt check your counts every week or two - until you get them back in the normal range.

Itching (pruritus) can be a sign of liver disease or kidney failure. I can't tell you to continue with your meds, or to stop them, that's up to you and your doctor.

I will say, please be very careful, and continue to check your enzyme levels.

I see youre from Boston, me too.

Are you seeing Dr. L ? I ask because I know he also does acupuncture in his office.

Splashi1, how high are your enzymes?

--------------------
Everything I say is just my opinion!

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lululymemom
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Our LLMD took my daughter off Mepron and everything else when her enzymes skyrocketted.. It's not something you want to fool around with. It took 2.5 months of heavy detox to get them back to normal. Liver pain was always present and still happens occasionally.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Rivendell
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My LLMD has me taking Chlorella, which cleanses the blood, removes toxins and heavy metals and cleanses the liver.

I take it on an empty stomach away from the antibiotics, usually when I wake up in the middle of the night.

I hope it is helping to protect my liver.

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Keebler
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Splashi,

Itchy skin can also be a sign of liver stress, &/or of deficient fatty acids (Fish oil, OmegaBrite, etc.).

Chlorella can help cleanse the blood. So can Spirulina, Gotu Kola - and other things listed for liver support.

Olive Leaf Extract also really helps my skin.
-

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Harmony
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Not sure how scientific this is, but I have started to have great faith in Kombucha

It says "detox" on the bottle, but that is not all I would go by, it has lots of good acids in it, and vitamin B, and it is a diuretic

I know that for sure - it makes me pee every time and I feel better for it, it seems (I miss it if I run out) (I am also constipated, so I feel the peeing is a good way to help move things out)

the Gingeraid variety from GT helps me with nausea a lot, too

and it has 2 billion probiotics per bottle

I drink a bottle a day - away from antibiotic times -

it is expensive, but I have figured it into my Lyme budget and since it is one of the few things I like that I can have I allow myself that luxury (necessity?)

I do think it helps my liver

--------------------
Persistence, persistence, persistence!!!
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence...
Persistence and determination are omnipotent."
attributed to Calvin Coolidge

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GiGi
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Phospholipid Exchange is the medium in the Klinghardt Lyme Cocktail that helps detox, helps absorb artemisinin, and protects/supports the liver. If you can't afford it, use egg yolk, lecithin, olive oil or coconut oil to blend in the rest of the cocktail ingredients. Talk to your doctor.

Take care.

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sammy
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My LLMD recommends that I take Milk thistle, NAC, and ALA for liver support and detox.

I just take them a couple hours away from my antibiotics and Malarone.

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rainbowriver
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2 days of mepron send me to ER with 10 days of nausea and vomiting. it turned out AST and ALT liver enzymes went up 5-6 times. very poisonous to my liver.

looking to detox to recover...

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