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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Hard question - Mepron and Zith

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Author Topic: Hard question - Mepron and Zith
lymenotlite
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I've asked this before with no helpful response so I'll try again. My LLMD had me on mepron for 5.5 months but I was not put on azrithromycin at the same time. I was on azrithromycin for months just prior to being put on mepron.

Some physicians think that babesia bacteria will become immune to mepron if azrithromycin is not given simultaneously with mepron. I believe I still have babesia and will be taking mepron when I can face the mepron drugs in my basement.

Does anyone know whether I might have mepron-resistant bacteria now? What if I take azrithromycin along with mepron this time?

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Amanda
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If it was helping you, but then while on it you began having problems again, its a sign it wasn't working anymore.


I have been battling Babs for 4.5 years now. I have always been on at least 2 or 3 or even 4 antimalarials at the same time to beat it down, and it still comes back. I have found sometimes I can come back to a drug, and it might work again. But sometimes this doesn't work.

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"few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain

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Sammi
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What did you take with Mepron when you took it before?

I believe that the treatment guidelines state that Mepron works best with Biaxin, Zithromax, or Ketek.

I definitely think you should try Mepron with Zithromax. I have not heard of resistance to Mepron like you are describing.

What do you mean by "I believe I still have babesia and will be taking mepron when I can face the mepron drugs in my basement."

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lymenotlite
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My LLMD says that my symptoms are those of babesia. I have the mepron but have been able to keep the symptoms at bay, although unresolved, with herbs. Mepron was the most unpleasant drug I have taken, thus my dragging of feet to start it up again.

I took mepron with A-BAB, ToxEase and artemesinin, later MMS. I also took supplements.

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TF
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Here are the notes I took from Dr. H's talk at the recent lyme conference. Lots of good info on this topic:

2011 ILADS Conference, Toronto, Canada

Lyme & Babesiosis: Updates on Treatment & Diagnosis 2011

Dr. H 10/28/11

He has 20 years of experience treating lyme; more than 12,000 chronic patients
He was in France and China discussing babesiosis. Talked with Chinese CDC regarding parasites

Some of his patients get better with glutathione alone. It opens up the detox pathways (is an anti-oxidant)

Borrelia miyamotoi is showing up in ticks in Hyde Park, NY. This strain is in Japan. We cant test for it.

There is a new ehrlichia species also found.

Indicators of bad outcome with babesiosis:

male sex, extremely high WBC

We see blood transfusion babesiosis in California. WA-1 is now in the Northeast U.S.. It is found along the entire eastern seaboard. It is difficult to get a positive test for it. LabCorp has a WA-1 test. The FISH through Igenex is also very useful.

He treats with clindamycin with azithromycin, also Mepron, then malarone. There is lots of Mepron resistance. So, he adds Septra (Bactrim). This works well. Also, he uses much higher doses of Mepron due to the Mepron resistance.

He uses coartem (which has Artemisinin in it) Dosage is 4 twice per day. Take at 7 a.m. and 3 p.m.; then switch to 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. It can be pulsed once per month.

You cant combine this with any med that affects the QT interval.

Babs is spreading world-wide. Babs also suppresses the immune system (based on a study of b. microti)

Artemisinin is not as effective now as it was in the past. Use art when coartem doesnt cure the person. He no longer uses ketek.

Beta blockers (blood pressure medicines) control these types of parasites. So, use them as an antagonist. We need a study on this. Heparin may also inhibit babs. Need a large study on this.

Curcumin (a herb)--he is now using it to treat babs. Published studies show it is useful for malaria.

Cryptolepis has been used in Africa for malaria. There is a published study in Ghana. It had a 93% cure rate (a 50% cure rate in 3 days; 90% cure rate in 7 days) You can get it at: www.woodlandessence.com

If adrenal function is low (patient has a low cortisol), they will not respond to antibiotics.

He told of a patient with intractable babs. They were treated for babs for 5 years and were not cured. Then, he gave them 1 teaspoon of cryptolepis 3 times per day with Byron White herbs. This is making the patient feel well. He hasnt found any side effects with the cryptolepis. It may not be curative. It lowers the parasite load and strengthens the patients immune system.

Brucellosis also causes night sweats, so check for this in a patient with night sweats.

Use malarone for the patient who cant clear babs. Low dose to maintain them.

We need new treatment options for babs.

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lymenotlite
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TF,

Do you know what dose of glutatione, mepron and bactrim Dr. H was using or what brand of glutatione and was the glutathione IV or shots? Or do you know how I can find that out? Maybe you could PM me with the doctor's name so I could do a search. I am female and probably do not have a high WBC.

I started mepron in 2010 at 1 tsp twice a day. Right away I had in serious headaches, imbalance, nausea and was sleeping a lot. After a bit my scalp itched a lot. When I scratched my head, there were small white particles under my fingernails. I never found out what the particles were. My LLMD lowered my dose to 1 tsp once a day for a few weeks but I was able to go to 2 tsp twice a day for a few months. It was the worst drug I have been on.

Glutathione sounds like the place to start. The bactrim also sounds like it might be a good idea. I could try it on my next round of mepron if the glutathione fails. The cryptolepsis is not currently available but the curcumin, of course, is.

Thanks for all the information. It is so helpful.

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Catgirl
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I was on mepron, zyth and amox and I ended up having treatment failure. The babs is coming back.

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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TF
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Sorry, I only know what I wrote in the notes. I will pm the name of the doc to you.
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Amanda
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I took Mepron and zith for 26 MONTHS, along with pulsing Dr. Zhangs artemesia caps. I kept having to take higher and higher doese of the mepron, and then finally, it just stopped working altogether. That was over two years ago, have taken other things since, which seems to keep it down, but not knock it out. My doc (who is very good LLMDand has lots of experinece) has added mepron back in with two other anitmalairals.

Things That I have tired and did not do anything for me included bactrim, IV clindamyacin, plaqunil, flagyle, biaxin, primaquine, glutatione, malarone, Byron W herbs, natural balance herbs, cowdon herbs,and cryptolepsis (you can not buy this herb anywhere right now anyway). I take curcumin for other reasons, but doesn't seem to help with Babs

Mypoint is that everyone is different, and even the really good LLMDs have trouble with some patients. I have heard several talks by some of the more experienced LLMDs. It seems they are finding more and more patients that are developing resistence to teh Mepron.

But it still does help a lot of people.

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"few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain

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